The Veins of the Earth development feedback BETA 13

[Avagart]

Huh, nice idea, getter77. Creative. I though about more typical classes, for example - I've always liked scout from D&D 3.5. It's ranger without spellcasting but with more physical advantages, based on dexterity and speed.

Sadly, I have to report very annoying bug. I played half-orc barbarian and I gained new character level. As barbarian, on 2nd clvl, probably I should have 4 skill points and 1 class point. So, I had -4 skill points. When I spent my class point, I noticed I have -3 skill points. A bit weird, I think.

[Zireael]

Minus points are something I haven't been able to track down - the code is math.max (1, <the normal equation>), so the minus thing should never happen.

As for the other reports: the tile sneaking under the UI is a known problem but trying to fix it distorts the map completely
And I have no idea about the FOV thing since the walls should block it completely.

I am pleased to report the type formatting has been improved, so you will now see

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arrowhawk
magical beast


[Avagart]

Number of skill points is affected by WIS modifier. Characters with higher WIS stat have more skill point than others. Obvious. stats <= 8 have negative modifiers. Maybe SP's value isn't prevent to has a negative value? So, barbarians with WIS==5 can have -x SP.

More strange is adding 1 SP (from -4 to -3) after spending class point.

The FOV problem is caused by T4-Engine, I think. It looks similar in ToME 4 and probably is intentional - to provide 'smoothness' of display, without sharp edges.

I am pleased to report the type formatting has been improved

I am pleased to know it

[Zireael]

I think I stopped the negative skill points.

While adding spells, I noticed the hotbar was getting more and more clustered while many of the skills and spells are only situationally useful. I then thought of Baldur's Gate UI where you could pull up the list of spells with a single icon.

Here's what I arrived at.



The HLW icon is there because it's an innate ability. The spellbook icon stays, as well.

The sword brings up a menu of attack options. The expand icon brings up a menu of skills and the one which looks vaguely like a crescent shows the list of spells.

Pleasantly surprised that this only took 3h to do in all.

[Avagart]

Good news

What else are you planning for next version? And when can we expect the BETA 10?

[Zireael]

Good news

What else are you planning for next version? And when can we expect the BETA 10?

Plan for beta 10:
* as many spells from NWN 1/NWN 2 spell lists as possible (yes, including spells above spell level 4)
* possibly the magus class mentioned a few posts back
* no game-breaking bugs

When:
before the Athletics World Championships 2015 starts (so before 22nd August) because I'll be watching it on TV

[akeley]

After a few months hiatus I played VotE  for a bit over the weekend. The positive impression is that it`s now quite playable - the endless error reports are mostly gone now. And the new "change weapon set" feature is great - thanks for following the suggestion :) On the downside though, the game still feels sort of incomplete...perhaps a wrong word for a beta...but I`m just constantly unsure if I`m in control - or better yet, if the game is in control of itself.

Okay, I didn`t encounter anything seriously game-breaking...but there`s lots of little niggles and curios that sort of wear me down and prevent any more serious approach to gameplay (also break immersion). So, my vote (sorry! :) for the next VotE beta would be to limit new feature implementation and instead hunker down and try to squash as many insectoids as possible.

Hope you won`t take the above as an empty criticism - Veins is right down my alley and I really hope to see it next to my other top-shelf RLs one day. Hopefully sooner than later ;)

Here are some things that bugged me (truly sorry, it must be a Bad Pun day here @@)

I second the points Avagart brought up, some of which I also mentioned before. Other stuff:

-trying Animal Empathy on a critter always ends up in an error

-sometimes: weird and constant "trying to wield" message popping up even when I`m not doing anything with inventory (think it happened when I walked over an item)

-still getting messages about actions outside my fov ("kobold got off the ground"...grand...but what kobold?)

-another map/border problem - I can get two tiles deep below the bottom border - can`t see my character but can move about

-"stolen vitality heals your injuries"...nice, but where did that came from?

-it seems I can make melee attacks from more than 1 tile away. How come? Also it seems I attack sometime just by pressing "wait"

-there`s no "X dies" messages when killing monsters - and sometimes it`s confusing (combined with the comment below)

-monsters seem to appear kind of randomly, even ones that already spawned - now maybe that`s down to the fact that the  visibility range is not clearly defined (suggest more contrasting colour for tiles outside fov)

-could really do with a proper map

-spawned wearing armour that requires proficiency which my character didn`t  have. Took it off and couldn`t put it back on - naked in a hostile dungeon :)

-I don`t quite get the staircase system - I was going up or down one several times and ended up with weird results - non consecutive or random-looking floor numbers

-hunger clock: once I totally forgot it exists and only realised quite late in. Don`t remember the message state (red), but then I ate 5 rations and lots of corpses in quick succession and still only got up to famished. Weird.

-can I throw stuff? Got a spear equipped but cant do nothing with it...nevermind other stuff...

Phew! But I`m sure some of the above are not errors but me just not knowing or doing something wrong, so sorry about that. If you haven`t heard of any of the above yet (ones that look like genuine bugs at least) let me know and I will try to replicate them.

[Zireael]

-trying Animal Empathy on a critter always ends up in an error

-sometimes: weird and constant "trying to wield" message popping up even when I`m not doing anything with inventory (think it happened when I walked over an item)

-still getting messages about actions outside my fov ("kobold got off the ground"...grand...but what kobold?)

-another map/border problem - I can get two tiles deep below the bottom border - can`t see my character but can move about

-"stolen vitality heals your injuries"...nice, but where did that came from?

-it seems I can make melee attacks from more than 1 tile away. How come? Also it seems I attack sometime just by pressing "wait"

-there`s no "X dies" messages when killing monsters - and sometimes it`s confusing (combined with the comment below)

-monsters seem to appear kind of randomly, even ones that already spawned - now maybe that`s down to the fact that the  visibility range is not clearly defined (suggest more contrasting colour for tiles outside fov)

-could really do with a proper map

-spawned wearing armour that requires proficiency which my character didn`t  have. Took it off and couldn`t put it back on - naked in a hostile dungeon

-I don`t quite get the staircase system - I was going up or down one several times and ended up with weird results - non consecutive or random-looking floor numbers

-hunger clock: once I totally forgot it exists and only realised quite late in. Don`t remember the message state (red), but then I ate 5 rations and lots of corpses in quick succession and still only got up to famished. Weird.

-can I throw stuff? Got a spear equipped but cant do nothing with it...nevermind other stuff...

2 & 3 - should be fixed.
4 - trying to fix it distorted the map and whacked the mouse controls. Leaving it as is for now.
5- your god is nice to you
6 - that's the attack of opportunity mechanic - if the enemies try to move away, you get a free attack. alas, the corpse drops where they end the "move", not start
7 - on it now. works for player getting killed but not monsters
8&9 (dark non-FOV and map) - good points

the last thing: nope, no throwing spears in this ruleset. Although I might implement a rule which lets you throw anything but at a hefty -6 penalty to attack.

[Zireael]

Akeley, this dark enough for you? It's not pushed yet because I need that FOV change to play nicely with the time passage code...

[Avagart]

A bit too dark for me, I think. It can tire the eyes.

[akeley]

Yeah, anything more contrast-y than previous version would be good I suppose, as it was already "nearly there"...

[Zireael]

I think beta 10 has "more contrast-y" when it comes to seen vs not-seen. Now that I can happily break things without worrying about an impending release, I will try to make it look even better (hint: the torchlight is yellow!)

[Avagart]

Grats! I'm very glad to see that almost every reported bug is fixed.

Hm, I have question. Built-in bug reporting system is your thing, ie sends raports to you, Zireael? Or there is standard ToME4 feature and reports are send to DarkGod?

So, while I don't know it, I will be post reports in this thread...

Leveled from 3clvl to 4clvl. I had 1 available stat point and I tried to increase my WIS stat from 7 to 8.

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Lua Error: /mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:812: attempt to index a nil value
 At [C]:-1 __newindex
 At /mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:812 incStat
 At /mod/dialogs/LevelupDialog.lua:137 fct
 At /engine/ui/ListColumns.lua:462 onUse
 At /engine/ui/ListColumns.lua:134 fct
 At /engine/Mouse.lua:56 receiveMouse
 At /engine/Mouse.lua:94 delegate
 At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:602 mouseEvent
 At /engine/ui/Dialog.lua:343 fct
 At /engine/Mouse.lua:56
After that my WIS skill increases.


I was walking... No more...

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Lua Error: /mod/class/Object.lua:102: attempt to index a nil value
 At[C]-1 __index
 At /mod/class/Object.lua:102 lightTurns
 At /mod/class/Object.lua:89 act
 At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:82 tick
 At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
 At /mod/class/Game.lua:736


Hyenas and Duragear are displayed as 'h' letter in tile mode. Sea cat as a 'c'.

Some strange thing in refreshing infos.
'place' (fore example 'tunnels, dungeon level 2') and 'level up!' refreshes after player move
amount of skill points refreshes after spending one of them; before this, skill points looks like set to 0.


I was fighting with two enemies; recently I summoned mounts and my horses attacked enemies

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Lua Error: /mod/class/Actor.lua:786 attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'max_wounds' (a nil value)
 At [C]:-1 __div
 At /mod/class/Actor.lua:786 deathStuff
 At mod/class/Actor.lua:904 onTakeHit
 At /mod/class/NPC.lua:204 onTakeHit
 At /mod/class/interface/ActorLife.lua:42 takeHit
 At /data/damage_types.lua:48 defaultProjector
 At /data/damage_types.lua:81 projector
 At /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:397 dealDamage
 At /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:245 attackRoll
 At /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:124 bumpInto
 At /mod/class/Actor.lua:1170 attack
 At /mod/class/interface/Combat.lua:710 provokeAoO
 At /mod/class/Actor.lua:358 runAi
 At /engine/ai//talented.lua:64 doAI
 At /mod/class/NPC.lua:44 act
 At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:126 tickLevel
 At /engine/GameEnergyBased.lua:62 tick
 At /engine/GameTurnBased.lua:46 tick
 at /mod/class/Game.lua:736


[Zireael]

Beta 10.5 is out. The light problem and stat increase is fixed definitely. I'm not sure about the summons, need to test.

As for missing tiles, I am aware of them, but I can't add tiles and content at the same time

[akeley]

Some more random observations:

- when I select Random at character creation it randomizes my name as well, though I chose it earlier...it`d be nice to be able to keep it
- saying "No" to Tutorial every time you start anew is annoying
- it`d be helpful if item description pointed out that you can`t use it for lack of proficiency - say, change the colour to red and/or disallow equipping it
- "paper doll" - I know it`s the engine`s fault (same in TOME proper) but very annoying anyway: item description stays on even when your pointer moves off the item icon,  covering most of other slots
                      -also, can`t move an item in between slots - has to go back to right panel and then I can put it elsewhere

Less clutter on toolbar to start with is a great move. But...
- both Skill  and Spell menus are called Talents...confusing
- it`d be great if only available talents were displayed...as it is I always have Mount or Polearm ability for example  (same on the "m" screen")
- Spellbook needs to show descriptions when hovering over icons
- the numbers on said icons are often hard to see...choosing spells is a chore
- when scrolling mouse wheel up/down over the spell list in Spellbook spells are added in addition to scrolling

and...Some Things That Are Probably In The Manual...
- how to use a wand?
- I can craft items out of nothing?