Messages

91

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 13, 2014, 02:29:39 AM »

It's true for any kind of skill you idiot.

Little retard, patience is not the same skill as intelligence. A difficulty that challenges patience has its own name, it's called tedium.

A truck is a type of vehicle. You are trying to prove a truck is not truck by insisting it's actually a vehicle. Yes, playing all over from the beginning makes it more difficult, but to be more precise it only makes it more tedious.

92

Design / Re: My two cents about Permadeath

« on: April 13, 2014, 02:03:49 AM »

Ah, yes, this old chestnut. "You don't even understand what you said yourself." lol

Can you or can you not describe how memorization can help?

93

Design / Re: My two cents about Permadeath

« on: April 13, 2014, 02:01:03 AM »

Indeed, but this does solve the case of the anti-roguelike fanatic. In fact, I find I even agree with him: It really would be tedious to play the same brogue seed over and over from the beginning until you beat it (if you don't have the skillz to beat it in under three tries).

Over and over from the beginning? You are playing the whole game all over from the beginning until you beat it, thousands of turns through the same easy difficulty for hundreds of times. I'm not playing all over from the beginning, I'm playing over only last few hundred turns, usually not more than once, where every different move makes the game different than before. And then I advance to harder difficulty and fresh/new content straight away. The only difference is you are wasting more time.
 

So here's your homework, LazyCat, go play and beat a roguelike the right way -- from the beginning without using seeds to make it the same every playthrough and without dying -- then come back with your informed judgment.

I did. I was talking about it before. It is you who never completed any roguelike without save-scumming. Admit it!

Actually, I'm a little surprised this kind of monstrosity is allowed to stand in the roguelike world without being heaped with scorn. I bet lots of brogue players doing these weekly seed challenges play the seed over and over again from the beginning. This is abominable! I thought it sounded like a good idea at first, but it didn't occur to me that they would make a game of playing the same thing over and over like that.

Are you again referring to save-scumming as "playing all over from the beginning"? What's wrong with you? Save summing is the opposite, it's to avoid playing all over from the beginning.

94

Design / Re: My two cents about Permadeath

« on: April 13, 2014, 01:15:24 AM »

Okay, I'm going to take this as confirmation that my scenario above is indeed what happened.

You don't even understand what you said. Go ahead, describe how do you imagine memorization is going to help.
 

95

Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) / Re: Pixel Dungeon (now at v1.6.4)

« on: April 13, 2014, 01:06:38 AM »

This is how roguelikes should work not only on mobile phones but desktop computers too. User interface 10/10, graphics 10/10, audio 7/10, gameplay & balance 9/10. Very well done.


Stealth is interesting but small part of the game, I think you can get more out of it by making it more useful. Sneaking would be more satisfying if monsters couldn't hit you in the same turn they go into alerted state, for example. They also wake up rather easily, too soon for sneaking to be interesting. In case powering up stealth makes it too easy I'd just add more monsters. 

I agree with most other people square-bound level design was better. The new layout requires to many touch-screen gestures just to decide where to go next, constant need to zoom in and out makes it pretty inconvenient. There was also a feeling of satisfaction when you knew you cleared the whole floor, I think that was more valuable than whatever it is we gained with the new design.

It might be interesting tactical addition if the attack after waiting a previous turn is more likely to hit or make more damage. Pausing before attacking would work like some kind of "focus", with the effect similar as using doors, only this would use up your turn which seems to be adequate trade-off.

Different sections of the dungeon cry for different background music.

96

Design / Re: My two cents about Permadeath

« on: April 12, 2014, 11:07:47 PM »

It hit me this morning that when LazyCat says he beat Brogue without save scumming, it could be that he replayed the same seed (see the thread on random seeds) over and over until he won through memorization. This possibility is so hilarious and so consistent with the posts he's made, I've almost convinced myself it's what really happened.

Can you describe how is memorization going to help? Did you mean to say "trial and error"? -- The only valid objection for save or check points was given by Awake regarding ID-game, though he also presented a solution.

97

Design / Re: My two cents about Permadeath

« on: April 12, 2014, 10:50:05 PM »

It's not the only difference, because each time the game world is different and even if it was the same it's impossible to make same moves without perfect memory. This was also obvious in old school games that did not have save game, even they had a static game world.

The only difference regarding game difficulty. -- Old school games that did not have save game are arcade games, purpose of which was to waste your time in order to get your coins. On the other hand the purpose of permadeath is to wastes your time in order to punish you, by wasting your time.

The way you lack basic understanding of games makes me think two possibilities: you are either a troll or a woman.

The way you phrased your unnecessary insult makes me think you have a small penis.

98

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 12, 2014, 11:11:19 AM »

If it was equally easy to win a game with permadeath and a game with save scumming, then (given a large enough sample size) a player would win the same percentage of games in both ways. That's obviously not the case, so we can safely say that playing with permadeath is more difficult. Don't blame it on your impatience and accept it as a fact.

Tedium is type of difficulty too, it challenges your concentration and patience. You should try counting grains of sand, it's both difficult and tedious in the same time, you'll love it.

Most people don't play roguelikes.

I mean people who play roguelikes. There is only 14 of you permadeath fanatics in the whole world. And 11 of you are save-scumming like everyone else, including you. Admit it!

99

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 12, 2014, 10:31:37 AM »

The two concepts are obviously related!  A person's skill is a measurement of what level of difficulty they can overcome.  A task's difficulty level is a description of how much skill a person needs in order to succeed.    Difficult things (like 12 consecutive strikes) require a high level of skill.  Easy things (like save scumming through a video game) do not require very much skill.  How could you possibly not understand this?  Why do you need such thorough explanations for such basic concepts?

What skill? You again fail to be specific. Starting a new game and replaying again through all the easy levels is not difficult, it's just tedious. The skill required is masochistic patience. Congratulations, you have too much free time.

100

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 12, 2014, 09:30:03 AM »

Man, just stop wasting your time.  You are talking to a person too dishonest to admit that earning a bowling score of 300 takes more skill than a score of 10 because they don't like the conclusion it leads to.

You are confusing game difficulty with personal skill. Originally we were talking about difficulty and consecutive strikes. I said each strike is equally difficult to pull off, and probability for 12 consecutive strikes is proportional to skill and vary according to complex external random factors (luck). What part do you not understand?

As for permadeath, starting a new game and replaying again through all the easy levels is not difficult, it's tedious. That's the truth, I never lie. What's so hard to believe, isn't that how most people feel about it?

101

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 12, 2014, 01:16:03 AM »

Your friends, because of the design of ADOM, must have known they were breaking the rules of the game. In your pseudo-roguelike proposal, they would not be breaking any rules. This is a fundamental difference.

Rules should say that when you die you have to throw your computer out of the window. That would make it even more difficult and exciting. So much better. Who disagrees should of course be put in jail until they understand it's all for their own good.

102

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 12, 2014, 12:17:41 AM »

These things all point to one conclusion: you hate being challenged.

Patience. It is my patience that I don't like to challenge. As long as you are generalising you will not be able to differentiate different kinds of difficulty and understand they challenge different types of skill. You are confusing tedious with difficult.

103

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 11, 2014, 10:14:29 AM »

The option to play either a good or a bad version of a game is worse than being only permitted to play the good version.

Says who? Hitler?

104

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 11, 2014, 09:57:10 AM »

But your answer came with another benefit.  The methods you used to approach permadeath play and how you felt about it made something really clear, and it lies at the heart of this whole stupid argument: you do not like to be challenged.

I don't like to challenge my patience. Just as you don't like to challenge your reflexes and play action games with only one life. But it's ok, because it's optional. What is your objection about if you could still play the way you want to?

105

Design / Re: Permanent consequences for failure that aren't death

« on: April 11, 2014, 09:34:05 AM »

The truth is, if it wasn't for save scumming, easy mode, cheating, dishonoring yourself or whatever you want to call it, ADOM wouldn't have gained 5 more players turning 2 of them into permadeath players.

This.

@LazyCat
I could wish you good luck with your further posts regarding this subject but unfortunately luck won't do you any good as these type of inflexible opinions simply remind me of religious people whose disposition to acknowledge alternatives is simply non existent.

I don't think they have much more to say. They have realized by now they were wrong all along, it will just take a few years for them to actually admit it. Cheer up, we're winning!