Javelin 1.6

[javelinrl]

Hi Aleksanderus, have fun trying the game out, let me know if you enjoy it

What aspects? Can't you give a simple answer? When I read the description it was also hard to understand what kind of game we are talking about. You seem to mention roguelike often, but apparently the game is a D20 RPG.

Sure, I can give a simple answer! Here are the roguelike aspects Javelin has:

Major ones

3.1 Random environment generation
3.2 Permadeath
3.3 Turn-based
3.4 Grid-based
3.6 Complexity
3.7 Resource management
3.8 Hack'n'slash
3.9 Exploration and discovery

Minor ones

4.2 Monsters are similar to players
4.3 Tactical challenge
4.5 Dungeons
4.6 Numbers

So pretty much all of them except: non-modal, single player character and ASCII display.

ASCII display is something many roguelikes don't do. Most roguelites aren't even turn based (3.3). The cult classic roguelike UnReal World doesn't feature dungeons at all (4.5). There are other party-based roguelikes instead of single character (4.1) - like Temple of torment.

If we can agree here that games can not follow the entire set of expectations and still be roguelikes I think Javelin fits the bill spot-on. If you can't agree that Javelin is a roguelike then I can't see how you'd disagree it's a roguelike-like http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Roguelike-like.

[Aukustus]

There are other party-based roguelikes instead of single character (4.1) - like Temple of torment.

Quite possibly nitpicking, but it's a solo game with optional party members . I've balanced the game to solo play and made the game artificially harder with party members with scaling monsters.

[getter77]

Well, I was speaking in absolutes really---commercial or otherwise, even at this end of the crazy pool it is unavoidable that you'll be going up against others new and old in these accelerated times of indie and hobbyist games alongside the rest.  Nailing a distinctive style/feel/personality to the game is key atop a robustly functional interactive apparatus that enables and encourages such as opposed to bogging things down or obfuscating needlessly.   Heh, if you like the older HoMM games I'd probably say take a crack at Palm Kingdoms II(went free recently), and III when it happens, by iosoftware.

My examples were to do with constraints being factored into the flavor and appeal in such a way that they become part of the shared ritual, as it were.  If everything somehow loaded in DF so fast that you couldn't hope to read or get any sort of spectacle out of it, well, the game would actually lose some charm probably, heh.   Based on mass combat and D20 reckonings in 2D combat, I'd say definitely check out some videos at least of Conquest of Elysium IV as it is probably one of the nearest neighbors out there already in terms of the starting, albeit lo-fi, approach and availing with some transparency of at least DSomething dice rolls.  Granted, folks fuss about it amply for a host of other reasons, but it at least gives some food for thought and vicarious stress testing of ways and means.

Heh, all I'll say on interface is that should the need for a fair number of ingame key presses be high even amidst your mouse support aims, you could definitely find an at least inspirational path for use and presentation in Knights of the Chalice as it handled it rather well even back in the old demo.      Anything that can be configured ingame at a main start menu and the like, probably should be versus any file hunting in the folder(s)~

Looks like Palm Kingdoms classic is for Windows mobile only, unfortunately. Yes I know in absolutes I can't compete with commercial games - but that is fine, I'm in this for the freedom. The freedom to make my own thing, to cover a niche that I feel is empty in the current open-source strata, to give the players the freedom to alter their game (even the images are super-easy to change nowadays) like I've done (and contributed) to DCSS and other titles before with code and comments.

Conquest of Elysium IV is commercial and I have no interest in paying for games at this point - if you can link me a fair review from the top of your head I'd be happy to read/watch it. though  Again freedom is what drives much of the project for me - I've been using Linux at home, using it pretty much exclusive for work too and (humble) gaming and never paid a single cent for any of it. It comes a time right now when I feel like I can give back something of my own to the FOSS community. It's not all about money either - it's the things I've said above too plus that some commercial games won't run on older hardware and also the fact that undeniably most commercial games need to make concessions on their style to suit a larger audience, which bothers me when I don't have full access to modify the game. Of course there are here and there state-of-the-art games that bother none with such non-sense but I really don't want to or feel like I need to support the gaming industry right now when so many other causes deserve my money/time/energy much more.

Knights of the Chalice too is Windows-only so I can't try it atm.

> all I'll say on interface is that should the need for a fair number of ingame key presses be high even amidst your mouse support aims

Oh well that's d20 for you You'd roughly have to roll the same number of dies as you do clicks in the game right now when playing tabletop. I think the system is pretty fun and I think Paizo and the entire D&D 3.0-3.5 team would agree too, not to mention all the publishing companies for d20 and fans who still play the game today despite 4e and 5e being out for a while already. The battles certainly take seriously a lot less time than playing D&D for real or even playing wargames and hopefully the entertainment factor is not too different (even if it's no replacement to the real thing)! I guess I'm the one talking in absolutes now, but it's all in good faith Putting some units on automatic mode or making message delay/thinking time faster can help the impatient ones as well, as will mouse support help a bit!

-PK II is there free, though for Win/Mac only which sounds like it would still be prohibitive in your case

http://www.palmkingdoms.com/en/pk2.html

-With CoE IV it isn't even about a review---just search for a LP on it on Youtube and you can behold both the grappling and enjoyment of players with the combat system and general presentation at your leisure to then ponder on any given episode.  I suspect KotC has vids as well just out there if discerning the approach from screenshots just doesn't do the trick vs seeing it in motion.

-Sure you can compete with commercial projects---the lines have never been blurrier in terms of dev tools and distribution as well as ease of access to information and research material across the spectrum.      Having bits and pieces able to be modded every which way is good for posterity---but first there has to be hooks/value in the standards presented to compel folks in the first place to invest themselves in the direction of the design.

-It is fine to have lots of rolls/actions/etc---just want to have the summation readily displayed onscreen so folks can start to learn the most common keys and whatnot and have some visual associations start to build up vs just abstracts in their heads.

[javelinrl]

-PK II is there free, though for Win/Mac only which sounds like it would still be prohibitive in your case

Yeah, unfortunately

-With CoE IV it isn't even about a review---just search for a LP on it on Youtube

Thanks for the suggestion - I have added this one to my Watch Later list, let me know if you had any specific YouTuber in mind! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyJkjgvOnak&list=PLeqQwWDbnYKODvHiZOTcgGDN6jvfKdp3Q&index=1

Sure you can compete with commercial projects

Thank you for the positive and hopeful attitude but unfortunately I really can't - at least as far as graphics and polish is concerned (something Javelin gets a lot of criticism for, now that all the kids expect PS4 graphics out of any and each game). On the gameplay front maybe I can - and as I said I don't try to be the best... just being good enough plus the differential of being free and open-source for anyone to freely play and modify is already good enough in my book!

[javelinrl]

Quite possibly nitpicking, but it's a solo game with optional party members . I've balanced the game to solo play and made the game artificially harder with party members with scaling monsters.

Wow it's a honor to be talking with you! I didn't realize at first you were the dev for ToT! I've first heard of your game when I was doing a Javelin release a while ago - since then Javelin is often compared to Temple of Torment and Veins of the Earth, because of the party features / d20 system. Incursion too has been mentioned once but not nearly as much.

I really wanted to try your game out but since I'm on Linux and I don't do Wine (really, the 32/64 bits packages/libraries are a pain the ass to deal with, not to mention it rarely works well or out-of-the-box so I pretty much give up on Wine whenever I try to use it. I also remember it being real slow too when I managed to make it work once a long time ago). I only hear good stuff about your game! Congrats on being featured on RogueBasin too! I guess that's the biggest honor a roguelike can receive?

Sorry I haven't played your game (though I really was looking forward to it) but I'd love to trade war stories of roguelike-development with you some time! Hit me up on javelinrl@gmail.com if you ever wanna chat!

Also, even before I saw this message I'm replying to I did take your previous feedback to heart, here is the current development screenshot of 1.7, without the solid backgrounds. I'm still working on it.. I think this looks better but now it's kind of hard to distinguish the enemies from the normal background...



Oh also, just to clarify: I think people often think of ToT as a party-based game, which is why I labeled it so even without having played it myself... just from the community's word-of-mouth, I guess you could say.

EDIT: what the screenshot doesn't show is the health bars now "go down" as you take damage. Sorry was too lazy to think of that before uploading the image.

[Aukustus]

Wow it's a honor to be talking with you! I didn't realize at first you were the dev for ToT! I've first heard of your game when I was doing a Javelin release a while ago - since then Javelin is often compared to Temple of Torment and Veins of the Earth, because of the party features / d20 system. Incursion too has been mentioned once but not nearly as much.

And now I've also ventured to the Pathfinder stuff too (Gunslinger class, and the upcoming Shaman), as you are. I recall getter77 posting The Temple of Torment somewhere a long long time ago where you posted your game. I recall it was on some RPG forum. There were some traffic from that forum on my website .

I really wanted to try your game out but since I'm on Linux and I don't do Wine (really, the 32/64 bits packages/libraries are a pain the ass to deal with, not to mention it rarely works well or out-of-the-box so I pretty much give up on Wine whenever I try to use it. I also remember it being real slow too when I managed to make it work once a long time ago). I only hear good stuff about your game! Congrats on being featured on RogueBasin too! I guess that's the biggest honor a roguelike can receive?

The Temple of Torment actually works on wine out of the box if I recall correctly. I was fairly surprised to see it on RogueBasin, but much less surprised it was Avagart's (from this forum / VedVid on reddit) doing .

Sorry I haven't played your game (though I really was looking forward to it) but I'd love to trade war stories of roguelike-development with you some time! Hit me up on javelinrl@gmail.com if you ever wanna chat!

You should actually join the FAQ Fridays at reddit .

Also, even before I saw this message I'm replying to I did take your previous feedback to heart, here is the current development screenshot of 1.7, without the solid backgrounds. I'm still working on it.. I think this looks better but now it's kind of hard to distinguish the enemies from the normal background...

EDIT: what the screenshot doesn't show is the health bars now "go down" as you take damage. Sorry was too lazy to think of that before uploading the image.

I absolutely like them, much better now . They're not at all hard to distinguish from background.

[Aleksanderus]

I really wanted to try your game out but since I'm on Linux and I don't do Wine (really, the 32/64 bits packages/libraries are a pain the ass to deal with, not to mention it rarely works well or out-of-the-box so I pretty much give up on Wine whenever I try to use it. I also remember it being real slow too when I managed to make it work once a long time ago). I only hear good stuff about your game! Congrats on being featured on RogueBasin too! I guess that's the biggest honor a roguelike can receive?
[/quote]
Wine is not that hard! You just need to open winetricks and get directx n' shit from DLL menu.

Of course you can use virtual machine if you hate wine that much.

[javelinrl]

I recall getter77 posting The Temple of Torment somewhere a long long time ago where you posted your game. I recall it was on some RPG forum. There were some traffic from that forum on my website .

It has happened on more than one occasion though I'm pretty happy to be compared to such a well-received title! All the way!

You should actually join the FAQ Fridays at reddit .

Haven't been much of a reddit user lately, don't plan on going back just for that unfortunately They sound pretty fun, as do the development updates but I feel it's more about each people talking to themselves, the discussion doesn't seem to grow. reddit is not really a platform for that, the way comment notifications work the discussions that do evolve are often between two people, then you might as well be using e-mail anyways. Forums like here are much better for on-going discussion between more of people.

I absolutely like them, much better now . They're not at all hard to distinguish from background.

Thanks! I did pick a map with a more neutral background though, when there are lot of bushes and rocks around it can get quite hard on the eyes... even brighter tiles can "conceal" the creatures if their avatars are small, which is a problem especially in the early game.

[javelinrl]

Wine is not that hard! You just need to open winetricks and get directx n' shit from DLL menu.

Of course you can use virtual machine if you hate wine that much.

As I've said I've got nothing but bad experiences with Wine so I think I'll be putting trying ToT out until I have access to a Win computer and a lot of time to play. Also learning how to setup a virtual machine and actually doing it, acquiring a legal copy of Windows, etc sounds like a lot of trouble to go for just one game.. I'm pretty fine with the games that work natively on Linux, web games and emulators (that are not Wine) now and again.

This is not any sort of attack towards ToT though, I'd be all over it if ran natively on Linux.

[Aleksanderus]

Wine is not that hard! You just need to open winetricks and get directx n' shit from DLL menu.

Of course you can use virtual machine if you hate wine that much.

As I've said I've got nothing but bad experiences with Wine so I think I'll be putting trying ToT out until I have access to a Win computer and a lot of time to play. Also learning how to setup a virtual machine and actually doing it, acquiring a legal copy of Windows, etc sounds like a lot of trouble to go for just one game.. I'm pretty fine with the games that work natively on Linux, web games and emulators (that are not Wine) now and again.

This is not any sort of attack towards ToT though, I'd be all over it if ran natively on Linux.

Setting VM IS SOOOOO EASY (you make a name, create virtual disk and dedicate some RAM and you're done!). And also install os which is easy.

[javelinrl]

I'm sure it's easy once you know how to do it but still there is a question of getting the Windows copy and I'm not looking to spend money or pirate a version if I can avoid it - as I'm also very happy to avoid having Windows installed in my computer in any way, shape or form, even emulated as I've told you. I simply don't need it.

I know you're trying to be a nice guy here, I really get it but chill out... I'll see about playing ToT next time I am around a Windows box and have some time to spare.

[Aukustus]

I'm sure it's easy once you know how to do it but still there is a question of getting the Windows copy and I'm not looking to spend money or pirate a version if I can avoid it - as I'm also very happy to avoid having Windows installed in my computer in any way, shape or form, even emulated as I've told you. I simply don't need it.

I know you're trying to be a nice guy here, I really get it but chill out... I'll see about playing ToT next time I am around a Windows box and have some time to spare.

I've tried to make a native linux build but I never figured out how to make it non-dependent on the local file structure. Those who tested the linux build had error messages with my Debian installation's folders etc.

[Lord_Mork]

Hello veterans and rookies! Today Javelin 1.6 is being released! It’s a big one so let’s get to it!

For those new to the game you can find out all about it here https://javelinrl.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/hello-world/

You can download your copy of Javelin 1.6 right here https://github.com/tukkek/javelin/releases/download/1.6/javelin.zip

Well I'm on mobile right now, but this looks incredible. I can't believe I haven't heard of this one yet
I absolutely love d20 on the tabletop

I will play tomorrow and then edit this message.

[javelinrl]

Please make a new post instead of the edit. I'm currently working on basic mouse support so if that's important to you I suggest waiting a week or so before I come out with an early version for it! Just let me know if that's the case so I can make sure to post an alpha here!

[javelinrl]

I've tried to make a native linux build but I never figured out how to make it non-dependent on the local file structure. Those who tested the linux build had error messages with my Debian installation's folders etc.

I was just writing a long-ass post telling you how to overcome this problem in a few simple steps but then I noticed you're doing closed-source development. Bummer. I guess your best bet then is to provide a pre-compiled .deb that requires the proper packages of each library. Of course you'd have to do this too with .rpm and other formats if you want to support the full Linux spectrum.

If you ever consider making the game open-source (not necessarily free software, you can keep your copyrights to the game and release the source anyways) I'd be more than glad to make it Linux-friendly. Linux users don't expect a pre-compiled version (though it's always nice to have one) - if you just give them a Linux download which is the source code and easy to build (standard being ./configure;make;make install) it is a 100% fair game - a lot of games and other projects do this for their Linux versions. I'd even offer myself to do the Linux build-tool work for you if I could get it to compile here first.