Poll

Ascii or Tiles?

Ascii
5 (62.5%)
Tiles
2 (25%)
Both (a lot more work for me)
1 (12.5%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike  (Read 15033 times)

PerspectivDesigns

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Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« on: September 16, 2013, 04:18:26 AM »
I've just started developing a Cyberpunk roguelike. The game will be open world in a small section of a city with a large number of partially randomized people. The whole thing will have a facebooklike profile for all the characters on a miniature internet.

My question is whether I should do ascii graphics or tiles? With tiles I can really get across the grubby feel of certain streets, the neon, and I can have profile pictures for all the characters. With ascii it will leave more up to the imagination and I can have a bit of a matrix code look.

So... Should I go with traditional Ascii (that's easier too) or Tiles?

Thanks!

PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 04:34:31 AM »
I've actually never made a roguelike before (I've done a lot of programming though) so I'm not sure what's a good way of keeping track of large levels.

Would it be efficient to use a bitmap where each pixel is different object, a text file, or something else?
I'm not really sure what most people do.

Zireael

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, 07:10:41 AM »
The ASCII/tiles thing depends on the engine and the level size (it's hard to make big levels with tiles while keeping them readable)

Quendus

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 10:28:56 AM »
I've actually never made a roguelike before (I've done a lot of programming though) so I'm not sure what's a good way of keeping track of large levels.

Would it be efficient to use a bitmap where each pixel is different object, a text file, or something else?
I'm not really sure what most people do.
If you're writing levels to disk for saved games, a bitmap is a reasonable way to store level data (and easily compressible as a PNG file). Zipped text or XML also works, if you need to save more complex data.

getter77

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, 12:01:19 PM »
I can't decide, so I vote a highly stylized Vector Glyph approach instead to scratch some of each itch all at once.
Brian Emre Jeffears
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PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, 03:11:28 PM »
The ASCII/tiles thing depends on the engine and the level size (it's hard to make big levels with tiles while keeping them readable)

Why would that be a problem? I can make the tiles as large or as small as I want. As you walk around the screen will scroll.

PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, 03:15:22 PM »
I can't decide, so I vote a highly stylized Vector Glyph approach instead to scratch some of each itch all at once.

That could look pretty cool! Do you know of any roguelikes that use this approach?

getter77

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, 04:24:58 PM »
Not really unless you greatly stretch Triangle Wizard I guess---just seems like a good direction to go abstract for an...abstraction of reality as it is.  Shapes, lighting/glow, zooming in/out, lots of contrast---lots that could probably evoke the feel you are going for without going full on into the traditional graphical armsrace nor the handicapping that strictly traditional ASCII may well present.
Brian Emre Jeffears
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PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 06:02:48 PM »
Not really unless you greatly stretch Triangle Wizard I guess---just seems like a good direction to go abstract for an...abstraction of reality as it is.  Shapes, lighting/glow, zooming in/out, lots of contrast---lots that could probably evoke the feel you are going for without going full on into the traditional graphical armsrace nor the handicapping that strictly traditional ASCII may well present.

Sounds pretty cool! I'll create some mockups for what the final game might look like with each of these types of graphics.

malignatius

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 09:34:11 PM »
The ASCII/tiles thing depends on the engine and the level size (it's hard to make big levels with tiles while keeping them readable)

Why would that be a problem? I can make the tiles as large or as small as I want. As you walk around the screen will scroll.
This. As I see it it, "big levels, see everything at once" is mostly a legacy thing. Naturally you can fit lots of ASCII characters onto a screen, but that doesn't necessary mean that you have to, or that it's even beneficial for the game play. Chose Tiles if you're able to make nice graphics that fits with the theme, otherwise don't. I like tiles, but I prefer ASCII over bad tiles.

PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2013, 01:35:51 AM »
The ASCII/tiles thing depends on the engine and the level size (it's hard to make big levels with tiles while keeping them readable)

Why would that be a problem? I can make the tiles as large or as small as I want. As you walk around the screen will scroll.
This. As I see it it, "big levels, see everything at once" is mostly a legacy thing. Naturally you can fit lots of ASCII characters onto a screen, but that doesn't necessary mean that you have to, or that it's even beneficial for the game play. Chose Tiles if you're able to make nice graphics that fits with the theme, otherwise don't. I like tiles, but I prefer ASCII over bad tiles.

Definitely true. I think I'll test tiles and ascii and see which looks better.

PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2013, 01:53:50 AM »
Before even starting programming I've been designing the way everything in the game will work (I'll revise this later).

I'm going to post here a couple of cool ideas I've had. I've also gotten some fun ideas from Cyberpunk 2020.


One of my main ideas is that every time you're injured, like if somebody shoots your arm and it has to be amputated, you'll be able to pay to get your arm replaced with a better (or worse depending on your money) robotic arm. The more you get close to death, the less human you get. If you pay some especially expensive life insurance you'll have your entire body (besides your brain) replaced when you're close to death (unless you're shot in the head or something).

The main thing you'll be doing in the game is hacking and possibly some spying. Combat will be rare, therefore especially brutal.

I'm thinking that hacking will be a bit matrix like. You'll use virus programs (you've bought or written) to fight antivirus software. (If you've got a better idea, please tell me  :D)

Every character will have a (small) Facebooklike profile. It will be possible to research all kinds of people, but you won't always know if the information is active.

I'm still not sure if I want a set gameworld or a randomized one. I think that I'll have a set overworld with some facilities randomized. (tell me what you think)

Tell me any other cool ideas you have!

(I plan on spending a long time making this, so please don't tell me it's impossible)

getter77

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2013, 02:19:16 AM »
If there is to be matrix stuff, you might as well draw as much inspiration as you can from the old Genesis Shadowrun game---though it isn't like the one in Returns is bad so much as perhaps not ideal for the amount of folks you'd have toiling at it.

There's to be a new edition to the Cyberpunk core books and whatnot if my memory serves, to coincide with the forthcoming CD Projeckt RED 2077 cRPG.
Brian Emre Jeffears
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PerspectivDesigns

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2013, 03:53:22 AM »
If there is to be matrix stuff, you might as well draw as much inspiration as you can from the old Genesis Shadowrun game---though it isn't like the one in Returns is bad so much as perhaps not ideal for the amount of folks you'd have toiling at it.

There's to be a new edition to the Cyberpunk core books and whatnot if my memory serves, to coincide with the forthcoming CD Projeckt RED 2077 cRPG.

Only taking some inspiration from the Matrix. I found the Matrix a little too goofy for Cyberpunk.

That's pretty cool! The trailer for Cyberpunk 2077 is part of my inspiration for making this game  ;D

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Re: Making a Cyberpunk Roguelike
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2013, 05:56:34 AM »
If you just want us to play it, ASCII is fine. If you want others to play it then tiles are the way to go.

I like ASCII personally because it can be so versatile and quick.

It really all depends on what your goal is. I've done a mock up of a Scifi starbase space marine type RL, with single color atari/intellivision style graphics. It turned out very cool. So art and theme can feed off of each other. Like Dredmore, good graphics and goofy elements go hand in hand.

Cyber punk and neon can go hand in hand as well. Or maybe a high rez ascii with a dark inner color and light outline of the same color to make it bright. I dunno, just spitballing here.

Tiles are probably the best for mainstream appeal.