Author Topic: Microgue (Updated 9/7)  (Read 56192 times)

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2013, 10:48:57 PM »
I thought about that. But I think different Move and Attack range can be really dangerous and very confusing. I worry a bit about having very specific movement patterns like Knight style or only diagonal, but I have thought about creating characters with different movement patterns. the few ideas I had were.

1. 2 space cardinal movement (Currently whats in)
2. 8 directional movement 1 space.
3. increasing move range, each move an enemy is not killed. (Cleric themed around not killing)

I think as long as I have cardinal movement the levels should all be passable.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2013, 02:54:33 PM »
Another update. I added The ninja, Eye, and Snail. bringing the total enemy count to

1. Rat
2. Skeleton
3. Yeti
4. Demon
5. Eye
6. Snail
7. Ninja

and here is a character mockup sheet. Top row are heroes, the rest are all enemies.


I think that's a good starting point to start working on some type of progression. and thinking about different hero's and how they will work, if its simply a sprite change or something more. I am really thinking about giving each character a spell, but going with my idea of "Spell Tiles" where when a player moves to that it sets off their spell. I need add it in as a prototype to see how it feels. this will probably feel similar to my Dungeoneer prototype.

I am still working on making the game feel larger. My current plan is as the player wins new unlocks are added. unlocks will be:
- New Characters
- New Traps
- New Enemies
- Increasing final floor number (game ends at depth 5, but it will increase as you go)

I am also thinking about possible expanding with other dungeons with other possible goals. such as a cave where the player is sent in to kill a certain number of monsters and floor does not matter, only how many monsters you kill. the kills required expanding each time.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 02:56:14 PM by jasonpickering »

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2013, 03:23:27 AM »
So I am wondering if Floating Eyes, should move around when they are not swapping with the player. they just kind of sit there. Comments?

Vanguard

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2013, 04:42:32 AM »
It's always worth experimenting, but my gut reaction is that they're better off as is.  Right now they can function as a trap, a resource to be exploited, or both, all depending upon context.  They aren't unfair, and they're completely predictable, but should always be taken into account.  To me that makes them stand out.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2013, 02:02:15 PM »
I have been looking for ways to upgrade enemies, as a way of making the game harder. Maybe a second level of the eyes could be large floating be holders or something, and they can move about and swap places. I am also thinking about making it so eyes can attack. It seems odd just to stand next to an eye and have it do nothing.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2013, 02:25:11 AM »
So working further on the game. going back and forth on the gameplay. if it should just be endless or it should have a definitive ending. I am feeling like it should have a definite ending, but I think the game is a bit to easy at the moment. Although I might just be really good at it.

Vanguard

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2013, 02:48:04 AM »
I have been looking for ways to upgrade enemies, as a way of making the game harder. Maybe a second level of the eyes could be large floating be holders or something, and they can move about and swap places. I am also thinking about making it so eyes can attack. It seems odd just to stand next to an eye and have it do nothing.

Try a slow but invincible enemy that forces the player to move forward.  Add a ranged attacker of some kind.  Add enemies that are extremely difficult to avoid, but who can only hinder the player rather than killing them outright.

Maybe add traps or other dungeon features that the player and monsters can interact with?

So working further on the game. going back and forth on the gameplay. if it should just be endless or it should have a definitive ending. I am feeling like it should have a definite ending, but I think the game is a bit to easy at the moment. Although I might just be really good at it.

If you're torn between the current, possibly too easy ending, and adding a harder ending, why not do both?  You could allow the player to keep heading deeper in when they've found the final treasure, or make an optional final dungeon with more floors or nastier enemies.  Something like that.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2013, 05:40:39 PM »
I have added some code for invincible enemies after adding the Dragon. So more invincible enemies might be a good idea. I want it to make some sense so it would need to be something you can't walk into, like spikes or fire.

I have been thinking about adding more varied enemies now that effect your movement, and are not really dangerous but make it easier for other enemies. One of the original enemies I had were Blobs, killing a blob "Coated" the player in slime and dropped the players movement to only once space.

I currently have Spike traps, and I have mines, but the mines are not really that great and will probably be removed. I want to add a few more Trap types but haven't thought of anything good. I have been thinking about creating a trap that shoots fireballs, which move across the map. I am also thinking about making an enemy that fires a laser or something in the cardinal directions each turn alternating the direction each turn. I want traps that are visible and set off at certain intervals.

Trystan

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2013, 11:17:07 PM »
I currently have Spike traps, and I have mines, but the mines are not really that great and will probably be removed. I want to add a few more Trap types but haven't thought of anything good. I have been thinking about creating a trap that shoots fireballs, which move across the map. I am also thinking about making an enemy that fires a laser or something in the cardinal directions each turn alternating the direction each turn. I want traps that are visible and set off at certain intervals.

Perhaps you could have visible trigger tiles that, when stepped on, trigger other traps on the map? So you could trigger traps that others or standing on or be killed because someone wandered on the trigger while you were standing on a trapdoor. All the parts would be visible so the only surprises would be based on how others move; which is sort of under the players influence.


My little roguelike Pugnacious Wizards (browser version at http://trystans.blogspot.com/2013/08/pugnacious-wizards-2-version-07.html) has several visible traps. There's arrow towers that shoot in all 8 directions every turn, rotating 4-way towers that shoot in the cardinal directions one turn then diagonals the next, rotating 2-way towers that are similar, rooms with one of several patterns of floor spikes that are visible when triggered, rooms where one of the 4 walls shoots arrows across the room every 3rd turn, rooms that have moving blocks that will squish anything in their way, and visible floor traps that freeze, poison, or light on fire anything nearby when stepped on. There's also fire, ice, and poison versions of most of the traps. Plus the "traps" of unintended consequences - like using a fire spell when surrounded by flammable grass and trees. As well as a few spells that place traps - but I guess that wouldn't really fit the theme of Microgue.

There's also the 2013 7DRL Dungeon Themed Starvation Simulator (exe and python version at http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3130.0) that had some interesting traps I haven't seen in roguelikes before.

And the previous 2012 7DRL TrapRL (python version at http://codingden.net/traprl/) also had some novel traps.

st33d

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 11:17:53 PM »
I was going to mention a fireball trap, but in Turnament they came with their own issues.

Because they move and you move, you either have to insist that they kill if you enter their tile and if they move into your tile (like moving spikes in Bump!) or; you kill the player only when they walk towards the fireball and when it moves into their tile.

I went with the latter in Turnament, which made for good puzzles and the behaviour makes sense when you think about it, but players struggled with learning the concept.

In Microgue however you have the added problem of moving two tiles.

We thought of an axe swinging round on a pillar as a trap in Turnament, it would hit you it it swung into you or you moved into it. We also thought of splitting enemies - which would create some interesting problems in Microgue.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2013, 02:58:30 AM »
Fireballs would probably be invincible. Meaning you won't be able to move into their spots, currently with the dragon the tiles treat them as a wall, not even giving you a tile to walk into. They would essential act like a one direction rat. I might make the fireball have a face, meaning the player would probably recognize  them moving the same as other enemies. I also want to add flying enemies, that will be above the traps. Meaning spikes won't harm them. But I am not sure how well that will read.

The idea with the trigger is pretty good. I also thought of something that has really complicated some of the levels. I am still playing around with the idea of placement and positioning. I was thinking about possible adding a Rune tile where you need to kill an enemy on that tile.Meaningthe player needs to worry about notjust killing the enemy but also movingthem into position. I have been playing with it while ctesting, picking a tile when I start a floor and trying to kill an enemy on that specific tile. It's been a lot of fun. Not sure what I can do with it in game play yet. If I could maybe even use it as some sort of lock mechanism. Meaning you would need to kill an enemy to progress any further. This is of course late game stuff. I thought it might be good for different paths or maybe even opening a shortcut that skips you ahead a few floors. Or opens a set of stairs right there.

The trigger idea could be fun and I could maybe even recode the enemies to aim for triggers if you are on a trap tile. I also like the idea of the crushers. They have been very cool in ending, but not sure how well they would work here. I also forgot about one of the best traps in shiren that of the trapdoor. I think I will add that next. It will drop the player down a floor instead of killing them.

Also I have written out the "story" or framing device. Basically an evil wizard has stolen some random artifact from the queen and you must get it back. The artifact will stay the same until you rescue it, but each time you die you will be spawned as a new character ( sprite and name) and sent in to get the item. Not sure if i will track how many heroes it takes to get an artifact back. it might be nice to track but not sure if it would be an exciting stat, or if I could use it in game somehow. the story is close to the original framing device I used but this one feels a little more fleshed out, it will also allow me to create a decent villain for the player to focus on. And makes better sense as his defenses get stronger as you continue to thwart his plans. It also gives me a way to tell the player of upgrades. You head into the dungeon and the evil wizard says " ha ha, I just bought a ton of giant snails." And now levels have big menacing snails ( as menacing as snails ca be) in them.

As for new enemies I added the golem today, which replaces the rat as an upgrade. On death it crumbles to dust, but will rise again in a few turns time and liches are in now. They are buggers summoning skeletons randomly. Best to take them out ASAP before they flood the map. Also added giant eyes which wonder the map if they can not swap with you. They upgrade the regular eyes.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2013, 03:27:47 PM »
working on the message system that will frame all the info for the player. Currently when you die the evil lord gives a message. On retrieving the Artifact another message pop ups, and when starting a dungeon if something new has been added a message will pop up there.


AgingMinotaur

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2013, 06:19:52 PM »
Nice to see Microgue get some lovin' again. The current build is quite enjoyable. An idea for the skeleton, maybe a higher level version of the same, might be one that doesn't move adjacent to you, but rather retreats than puts itself in "check". A few nitpicks: I don't really love the "bouncing" effect when you get a message, it's just slightly too comic-y for me, or something. And maybe you should have a woman's name for the female avatars. (Desdemona?) Keep up the good work!

As always,
Minotauros
This matir, as laborintus, Dedalus hous, hath many halkes and hurnes ... wyndynges and wrynkelynges.

AgingMinotaur

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2013, 06:25:16 PM »
Fun fact: If you get a golem to die in a spike trap, it will reanimate just in time to get spiked again, and again, and again. Finally my turn to laugh.

As always,
Minotauros
This matir, as laborintus, Dedalus hous, hath many halkes and hurnes ... wyndynges and wrynkelynges.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2013, 08:59:30 PM »
Yeah the Desmond is actually written in the UI. I have not started randomly generating characters yet. That will come later.

All the AI is really simple, so Creating something that looks to get you in check might be a good idea. Actually the skeleton currently updates to the Lich which summons Skeletons. Its very annoying and can be a bit hard to deal with.

Yeah the bounce is a bit odd. I just put it in but it does feel a little goofy. I might fix the tween to just an ease.