Author Topic: Microgue (Updated 9/7)  (Read 46723 times)

Darren Grey

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2013, 04:20:58 PM »
another update!.

added the first test spell. You can hit the A key to cast freeze. it will freeze all enemies for 3 turns. I have also added Mines as traps too.

I must say I preferred the original idea of no player powers, with all special effects being on enemy deaths or interactions.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2013, 04:50:50 PM »
Monsters will still behave the same way with Yetis freezing enemies, but I kept finding myself getting into an unsolvable situation. Where the player was doomed, no matter what they did. It always feels really unfair.
I wonder if its because I make the levels larger. I plan on doing testing today with different sized levels. It also seems levels with pillars to hide around are much better then ones that have the walls jutting out.

Also if I did do the "spells" they would be a one time use. just a small boost for the player. It would be something for use only in desperate situations. I think the enemies are a bit shallow at the moment. so as I add more and they get to be a bit more diverse then just rat and skeleton it might feel completely different.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2013, 08:57:29 PM »
did some more work. I am still on the fence about the spells. I might do something where I add more traps to the game and those traps are spells. so there may be a tile that freezes all enemies. I could also make it so monsters could use the traps too. This is all backburner stuff though.

My next goal is to add the ending. I really liked a game called Cave Noire. It has a mechanic where you choose a "Quest" before going in. so for example a Quest might be collect 4 gold. when you collect 4 gold the exit appears and you win. but now that quest reads collect 5 gold. so it slowly increments the player as they travel forward. I might try something like that with the final Level, as the player wins the dungeon becomes deeper and deeper.

I would also like to add unlockables but haven't really thought of what to add, aside from just different player sprites like the original game had.

st33d

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2013, 09:43:12 PM »
Do we really need to see the turn order of all the baddies? I know it has a fundamental impact on the game, but I think that most roguelikes have managed quite well without it. I mean, you might as well illustrate the logic order of which directions are examined first (in some roguelikes you can game the AI in certain directions) - that would be more important than which enemy acted first. But both of those I think get in the way of just playing the game.

60fps is noble, but not really essential for a turn based game. It's putting a strain on older phones as well. 30fps is quite acceptable.

Gameplay is good. Squads of rats are quite hard to deal with because the create a wall of check, which is quite interesting. Not quite sure about the timing on spikes, but managed to tactically use them in this version as opposed to classic Microgue where they seemed like decoration. Was a bit on the fence about the bigger map, but it seems to create more interesting problems. Wouldn't go larger though.

Re hosting: If you want ultra cheap hosting then you should take a look at Amazon S3. It's pay as you go:

http://aws.amazon.com/s3/

As for hosting a site, I can't really help. My host is pretty shit. But I've got all the executables for my games on S3, because I only get charged when people download and I get charged next to nothing compared to most services. At least you won't exceed your bandwidth limit like you can on dropbox.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 11:23:17 PM »
Yeah I think you are right about the turn order. I could Just have all the enemies move at once. Originally Microgue was built turn for turn because I did not know how to do all the enemies move at once. I have since then figured that out.

as for frame rate. It doesn't really matter. I am using a variable timestep so I can just swap the framerate and the game will play exactly the same. It was just left over from a previous prototype that was a platformer that I grabbed the loading code from.

The spikes currently go off every 3 turns. although there are some bugs that are interrupting turn order. as for the map I wouldn't go bigger then this. I spent a lot of time trying different sized maps and this one felt just right.

Thanks I will check out that hosting. I guess I would need to build a Microgue site too.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2013, 03:45:10 PM »
Another Update. Added in the Yeti, and rebuilt the level loading code, so monsters don't spawn on traps, and traps dont spawn on stairs. Next is redoing the enemy movement code so they all move at the same time.

Vanguard

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2013, 07:12:04 PM »
This is a big improvement on the old version you posted a while back.  Allowing the player to move up to two squares in one direction was a great choice.  I like the different enemy types too.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2013, 01:18:38 AM »
Thanks. I hope to continue adding enemies. I am still trying to figure out how to do the enemies though. I have a few ideas.

1. Enemies are in a big list with different rarities and just drawn and placed (Original Microgue worked this way)
2. Build a List of enemies prior to entering and also theme Dungeon possibly (Tomes full of Skeletons and Rats)
3. Enemies are added to the pool by level. (Yetis show up after level two)

Edit:

Added my new favorite enemy tonight, the Demon. He switches from Cardinal to Diagonal movement every other turn. Makes it a pain to keep your eyes on.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 02:17:44 AM by jasonpickering »

guest509

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2013, 02:21:10 AM »
Jason I like enemies to fit the level theme, if there is a level theme. For that you'd need various themes and then populate from a list coinciding with that theme. So you'd need lots of monsters, some of which only show up in certain themes, maybe some that only show up after a certain level.

You can cheat a bit and have the white mice show up in snow level, the brown ones in a forest, etc...merely a reskinning of the monster. As long as you have some that are unique to each theme I think you are okay, and maybe one per theme that only shows up after a certain level.

Like The Snowman only shows up in the snow levels, and the Yeti only shows up in later snow levels.

The Bat is a cave level only, the vampire bat comes in later caves.

Imp is in lava/hell/fire levels, and the demon in later lava/hell/fire levels.

The soldier in the castle, the knight in later castle levels...

So that's 4 themes, 2 uniques per theme, 1 lower level and 1 higher level...You can even string 3-4 levels of the same thing together and then face the boss of that 'theme' or 'zone' before moving to the next.

Just spit balling here. Good luck Jason.

 

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2013, 05:51:13 PM »
Here is a Mockup guys.



Jo: I like the idea of different areas with different Rats. I am thinking perhaps 4-5 enemies per areas. with some crossover on enemies if it makes sense.

I really dont know about bosses yet. I initially asked Darren about that for their Roguelike Radio. I had a couple ideas but it would require me to have to do premade levels like 100 rogues did. so I am still on the fence.

The main reason I worry about the enemies is just allowing replayability into the game. its such a fast game that I want to make sure people have a reason to continue playing. using 868-HACK as an example after completing the game you can begin playing for a higher and higher score.

so what would keep you coming back for more?

guest509

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2013, 02:01:45 AM »
Well I've thought on this, for a short game I figure that it has to have enough content that it's significantly varied each time. Maybe each time you play you'll see at most 20% of that it has to offer, or each time there are standards but say 1/3 of it is rare.

I tried that a bit with KlingonRL, you won't see the Romulans every time, or the space whales or Federation battleships or a pirate stronghold. They are rare events, but you should hit one of the rare events in EVERY GAME. I do not think I succeeded in making anything worth more than about 2-3 hours of real interest, bt that's the approach I took. Frequent rare events.

If you are hoping for a game that keeps getting played for years, then it's probable that a TON of variety needs to be included. Also if you can somehow track progress from game to game like a high score or deepest dive. Or like Spelunky did you can open warpzones to later levels to speed progression through the easy parts as you gain experience and skill. Some games have 'achievements' which are really just complex scoring mechanics IMO.

I like the idea of Realm of the Mad God and Dungeonmans where you pass something, anything, from game to game. So you are progressing. That's the way to produce addiction, reward play time with fleeting nuggets. In Dungeonmans' case you can put items in a sorta museum, but all items are lost that the player has on them if they die.

Again I'm just spitballing, I don't know the real answer except that VARIETY and a sort of CONTINUITY help people come back for more.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2013, 02:29:09 AM »
I think Darren described Binding of issac very well when he described it as being very wide and you get a sliver of game each time. I think that's probably a pretty good idea. I really like the idea of Player progression also, but haven't really thought of a good way to do it. I really liked the feeling of progression in Shiren and I have been thinking about some kind of base or town your hero leaves from. but the game is so tight there is not a lot of maneuver ability for upgrades and items. I have like 10 different heroes and I was thinking of allowing the player to find and rescue other heroes, but they would most likely just be skins. I also will probably allow the player to unlock new enemies to make the game harder as you play.

New build is up also. It has the demon in it now, which they kill me the most as I never pay attention to where they move from. I also shrunk the entire resolution of the game from 11 x 6 to 9 x 5. The 11 x 6 felt like there was a lot of wasted room. the smaller map feels much better, but not quite as crowded as the originals 7x4.

guest509

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2013, 04:07:23 AM »
Speaking of Binding, the more you play the more content gets mixed into the game. So it increases in variety if I remember right.

Binding also makes you unlock characters. I don't like this generally, but it can be useful to promote repeated play. Realm of the Mad God does this too, you have to make it to a certain level with your initial character class to unlock other classes. You should check out how they do it on their wiki, it's pretty cool.

I think every designer should look at Realm of the Mad God, many great ideas in there. Tons.

jasonpickering

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2013, 02:35:58 PM »
Jo: I think its cool that binding has you unlock characters, but they have stats, and starting items to play with, which I do not. I thought about giving each playable character one spell and then creating some way to recharge it. so the ice sorceress gets a freeze spell, the wizard gets a fireball, the knight gets a charge. I don't know how it will feel. I think it might make the game a little to easy, but that's what testing is for.

I also thought about giving each player a spell. but making them tiles. Currently the game is all about position, and I thought about basically adding a "Spell Tile". it works similar to some of the creatures so you can think of a "Freeze Tile" as a unmoving yeti. It sticks with the idea of the placement of yourself and enemies, but also limits it use and it would randomly show up on levels.

I also thought about doing something where a player can "purchase" new heroes. I was going to do the idea of running in to get some magical artifact. well each Artifact would have a monetary value and that would be kept. so as you win you build up this coffer to spend on new heroes. It gives the player some choice, an overarching goal, and a feeling of progression.

I have been looking at binding of Issac also. I think what I might do for quests is give the game a large pool of enemies, areas, traps. and then when a quest is started select an Area and then a slice of enemies and traps for this certain quest. I think that might lead to a lot more variety. I can also build weighted matches if I find good combinations of enemies that work well together to be troublesome.

Darren Grey

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Re: Microgue
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2013, 02:48:33 PM »
You could give each character a different movement/attack pattern. For instance:

 - Move range 1, attack range 2
 - Attack diagonals, move cardinal
 - Move in knight style
 - Alternate between diagonal and cardinal each turn
 - Move range 1, attack range infinite but only left and right (maybe a wizard chucking fireballs)
 - Move 1, but triple movement speed, cannot attack

Terrain effect based on class could work, but might not be as intuitive.

Balance between classes wouldn't need to be an issue.