Recruiting game designers for a different kind of roguelike game.

[Krice]

I code for a living (full time and in spare time) since December 2004 and my skills as a game developer started about the same time. I've done 1 strategy game (similar to laser squad) and the first variant of of this project (which was a way over-simplified version) both games reached alpha state and then I completely lost interest

Let's get back to this. So you have never finished a game project? And you are a professional programmer, but don't see any problems in this project?

[Endorya]

Today I will develop the land types like mountain, forest, sand desert, swamp etc. These land types will have multipliers which will affect the world's average climate attributes, such as temperature, humidity, wind, precipitation, cloudage, lightning strikes and storms chances; there will be multipliers for day and night times.

Each land type will also dictate the type of resources available like the amount of wild life, ore, vegetation, trees, water etc. as well as the type of ground and dirt. I will a post a screen once I complete it.

It would be really nice if I could add image attachments. It this feature disabled in the forum or it requires a certain amount of posts / trust level to unlock?

[pat]

I don't think there's any built-in image support. I'd just upload it to imgur if I was you and then post the direct link in [img] tags

[Endorya]

I code for a living (full time and in spare time) since December 2004 and my skills as a game developer started about the same time. I've done 1 strategy game (similar to laser squad) and the first variant of of this project (which was a way over-simplified version) both games reached alpha state and then I completely lost interest

Let's get back to this. So you have never finished a game project? And you are a professional programmer, but don't see any problems in this project?

The only problem I see with this project, is me developing it alone, which will strongly affect its development rate. There is nothing that I plan to include in this project that my coding skills won't cover. In fact, this project is all about logic, formulas, choice and randomization, there will be no path finding (A*) or complex AI routines.

Once I settle all the designing, the game engine will then slowly rise from the ground by carefully plugging in it functions to make use of all the variables and settings introduced through the editor. It should start with this order:

1 - Character generation (a possibly his best friend)
2 - Base World map generation
3 - Let the player roam freely throughout an almost empty world
4 - Build the weather system and day cycles
5 - Populate the world with exploration sites like dungeons, caves and cities.
6 - Include creature generation during the world generation phase
7 - Include Item generation during the world generation phase
8 - Populate land types with resources and wild life

(From here there is no specific order that)

- Begin to code actions and the interaction with the environment
- Make attributes work
- Make skills work
- Make quests work
etc...

[Endorya]

I don't think there's any built-in image support. I'd just upload it to imgur if I was you and then post the direct link in [img] tags

Oh, ok. Thanks for letting me know about imgur service.

[TheCreator]

The only problem I see with this project, is me developing it alone, which will strongly affect its development rate. There is nothing that I plan to include in this project that my coding skills won't cover.

If I were looking for a project I could contribute to, I wouldn't feel motivated having read that the main programmer never accomplishes what he had begun. Here's the main problem, I guess. Show that the project is heading somewhere and that it will not end up as another wonderful idea nobody wants to implement.

[Endorya]

If I were looking for a project I could contribute to, I wouldn't feel motivated having read that the main programmer never accomplishes what he had begun. Here's the main problem, I guess. Show that the project is heading somewhere and that it will not end up as another wonderful idea nobody wants to implement.

And I fully understand that. But I explained the reasons to why I didn't finished the projects I mentioned, not because I felt bored and decided to take a break but because I wanted more. I think the screenshots already indicate the project is heading somewhere and that it has passed the theory boundaries. Help is always needed at any point but mainly at the early stage, where the heavy work lingers.

Sure we can wait to let the workers build a house so later you can personally help placing the ceiling, making sure your effort is not in vain, but then again, if such tremendous effort was already taken to build the house to that point, having an extra hand helping placing the ceiling won't be the worker's concern. At least this is how I view it.

But then again, I can't blame anyone for feeling that way. I think I would feel in a similar way too. But success involves risking. If we are only to do the stuff we are 100% sure that it will be a success, then many successful projects we have today wouldn't exist.

Sometimes help is needed to dig holes in the ground where the house's foundations will be constructed.

[mrrstark]

1 - Character generation (a possibly his best friend)
2 - Base World map generation
3 - Let the player roam freely throughout an almost empty world
4 - Build the weather system and day cycles
5 - Populate the world with exploration sites like dungeons, caves and cities.
6 - Include creature generation during the world generation phase
7 - Include Item generation during the world generation phase
8 - Populate land types with resources and wild life

You've got a huuuuuuge amount of world generation and modeling systems, but no gameplay it seems at all.

IMO, to get someone on your project, you should give them a taste of what the game could be like not from world gen material lists, but from in-game, actually playing.

The list should read something like:
- Program in a basic character with fixed loadout
- Character movement and basic player controls
- Generate a sample level of some fixed size
- Make a little dungeon to go into and whack a couple monsters


And then once you have that little framework, then you can entice people by showing vids/screenshots of how "just with like two screens, a couple monsters, and a basic character, look at all the gameplay options we could have since in this screenie the character is equipped with a sword of this material, but the enemies are this, but in this screenie over here, you have a totally different character who has taught himself KNITTING!!! and has a DEATH SCARF!!!"

Basically, get an extremely basic couple levels together, a testbed for gameplay really, and then demonstrate to potential designers what COULD be with your systems. That'll show progress, and real promise, and get people thinking about your unique systems.

[Endorya]

1 - Character generation (a possibly his best friend)
2 - Base World map generation
3 - Let the player roam freely throughout an almost empty world
4 - Build the weather system and day cycles
5 - Populate the world with exploration sites like dungeons, caves and cities.
6 - Include creature generation during the world generation phase
7 - Include Item generation during the world generation phase
8 - Populate land types with resources and wild life

You've got a huuuuuuge amount of world generation and modeling systems, but no gameplay it seems at all.

IMO, to get someone on your project, you should give them a taste of what the game could be like not from world gen material lists, but from in-game, actually playing.

The list should read something like:
- Program in a basic character with fixed loadout
- Character movement and basic player controls
- Generate a sample level of some fixed size
- Make a little dungeon to go into and whack a couple monsters


And then once you have that little framework, then you can entice people by showing vids/screenshots of how "just with like two screens, a couple monsters, and a basic character, look at all the gameplay options we could have since in this screenie the character is equipped with a sword of this material, but the enemies are this, but in this screenie over here, you have a totally different character who has taught himself KNITTING!!! and has a DEATH SCARF!!!"

Basically, get an extremely basic couple levels together, a testbed for gameplay really, and then demonstrate to potential designers what COULD be with your systems. That'll show progress, and real promise, and get people thinking about your unique systems.

Thanks for the hint!

[EDIT]
But developing such demo means having pretty much everything in place already, otherwise the user won't have a clue of how it plays and feels.

- For the user to experience the NPC interaction, the NPC should be fully implemented.
- For he experience how exploring a dungeon feels like the whole thing should also be in place, with proper loot, creatures, triggers and with all elements and restrictions present.
- Skill trees and attributes should also be in place so he can understand what is expected and how they play.

Otherwise it will just feel like any other game.

What makes this game "special" is the complexity behind it. If the user just want's to have an "idea" of how it plays, I think it can do it through text. I could always build a demo .EXE or a video showing exactly what is to be expected but that would that consume a great deal of time. I rather invest that time into the real thing. Don't worry, I'm not expecting any help any time soon anyway.

[miki151]

there will be no path finding (A*)

Good luck with getting anywhere without a path finding algorithm 

[Endorya]

there will be no path finding (A*)

Good luck with getting anywhere without a path finding algorithm 

Why would I need luck for something the game will not use? This only means that either you failed to understand the concept described in the opening post or that I failed to properly explain it. Do you really believe I would miss path-finding after 7 years of brewing it? 

[miki151]

Maybe I did miss the point, but I'm judging based on how often I use pathfinding myself. Not only for AI, but for terrain generation. It's such a basic building block for games, and rather easy to code. Anyway, sorry for attacking you like that, it's not my business 

[mrrstark]

- For the user to experience the NPC interaction, the NPC should be fully implemented.
--snip---
If the user just want's to have an "idea" of how it plays, I think it can do it through text. I

Saying you need NPC interaction fully complete before you have basic gameplay is kind of like saying you need to have picked the color of your tablecloth before you start laying bricks for the foundation of your house. How will you know what's fun and interesting without trying some actual gameplay?

My suggestion wasn't about enticing the user, it was about enticing a game designer to help you make a game out of your disparate systems by showing them what you have and how it might come together.

If you go to a clothes store, they put clothes on mannequins. This is to give you an idea how it might be put together into a specific outfit. It makes you want to get involved with the "project" of making an outfit with their building blocks.

Similarly you're offering a bunch of system building blocks. You need to get a designer interested in the ways those blocks could be used for fun gameplay.

The actual user (player?) comes way later.

The fact that you mention "user" instead of player makes it sound like you really believe you're building a productivity application, or a library.

[getter77]

Yeah, going with a "vertical slice" demo is probably the way to go on getting this some traction---various Alpha/Demo/etc projects tend to shoot for that as it tends to work well.  Plenty is incomplete on the lot of them, but the taste is there to allow folks to start connecting the dots.

[Endorya]

Saying you need NPC interaction fully complete before you have basic gameplay is kind of like saying you need to have picked the color of your tablecloth before you start laying bricks for the foundation of your house. How will you know what's fun and interesting without trying some actual gameplay?

Unless you are totally unaware of what I mean by NPC interaction. How would you describe NPC interaction in a roguelike game? What comes to your mind? I'm pretty sure you will fail to describe how NPC interactions will unfold in my game and for anyone to understand how it will it must be implemented first. From every roguelike game I've played so far, the NPC interaction felt incredible superficial.

But what If I need help to implement such feature? This means I will have to describe it through text or on a live chat, which is basically what I i did with the whole project since the very opening post.

If you go to a clothes store, they put clothes on mannequins. This is to give you an idea how it might be put together into a specific outfit. It makes you want to get involved with the "project" of making an outfit with their building blocks.

That example just come to favor my reasoning, the mannequin is exhibiting the FULL product and not a portion of it, which is something expected in order to capture the attention of people.

The fact that you mention "user" instead of player makes it sound like you really believe you're building a productivity application, or a library.

Pay no attention whatsoever whenever I use "user" as a reference to the player. That's something unconscious I do due to the nature of my daily professional work.

Believe me, I fully understand your argument and I honestly thank you for sharing it with me, it shows consideration which is most welcome. But from these last days, from all opinions I gathered so far from multiple sources, I can conclude that I will only capture the attention of people when my game's complexity is revealed trough a considerable stage of developing, with or without demo but only when everything will be mildly implemented.

In sum, If I'm to create a demo, I will have to implement pretty much everything because it relies mostly on text and formulas. No point building the car's chassis if there will be no engine to propelled it.