Recruiting game designers for a different kind of roguelike game.

[Endorya]

Hello, I've been trying my luck in many forums regarding this project of mine but with no luck.

This is a project I've been brewing for quite some time now, and this is my 4th attempt at it. It seems I finally got the right formula!
   
The project itself is very complex and it is already in the move. The editor will let anyone modify the core functionality of the game by using just the mouse (and possibility the keyboard to type names and descriptions), no coding necessary. I'm creating the editor in which will allow  anyone to fully configure or change the whole game. From the editor we can:

- Define main attributes (Done)
- Define related attributes (which are connected to primary ones) (done)
- Define skills and skilltrees (80% done)
- Define materials from which items are made off (Done)
- Define item models (from which items will be dynamically generated in the game)
- Define item passive and active actions (attack, cast spell, increase attributes) (90% done)
- Define item sockets (done)
- Define item families (axed, sword, bow, book, potion, ammo, armor, clothe, acessory etc...) (Done)
- Define item qualities (decayed, broken, flawed, crude, ordinary, balanced, fine, superior, exquisite etc...) (done)
- Define places (models for cities, dungeons, lairs, caves, villages and others scenarios)
- Define quests
- Define dialogs for characters
- Define character races, personalities and mood types
- Define dynamic text in which words will be randomly used from a huge bank of synonyms and other predefined phrases and conditions.
- Define creature models including body parts, internal organs, loot etc...
- Define Historical events (famous characters, places, and other events of interest)
- Defining world settings for world generation (average temperature, humidity, precipitation etc...)
- Defining world seasons, months, times of day etc. Each one with their own attributes and modifiers

The list is not complete because some of these steps still require my attention and will be further subdivided.

But what kind of scenarios will this editor be able to produce? It will be able to brew complex roguelike games starting by generate the planet where the action will unfold, along with creatures, civilizations, items, quests, history figures and many sites of interest such as cities, ruins, castles, dungeons, caves etc. bound to that very planet terraforming seed. The player will be born with a purpose and even such purpose will be also randomly generated, from killing or banish something or someone, to finding a person or a missing object bound to a certain objective.

The game shall start when the player is born and after he reaches maturity. His childhood will also be randomized based on some criteria which will then influence his starting personality and skills. Whenever the player starts a new game faith can let you be brought to life with physical deficiencies which can immediately be spotted or not. Some may only be revealed after some time, like heart problems, sight and hearing dysfunctions while other can take years or even decades of in-game-time game play to kick in. But luckily this can be permanently healed through magic.

The player will be born in a random city based on his chosen race. He can be born in a poor, average or in rich family, each faith with its own advantages and disadvantages. After the games starts, a wide variety of skills will be available for him to improve, from melee and ranged combat, gathering, crafting, body & mind working, scholar, magic and survival. It is up to the player to increase whatever skills he wants, through training by himself and more efficiently by attending to schools or hiring trainers and teachers.

The world is a dangerous and deadly place for adventures so the player will explore it carefully and restlessly until his main quest is fulfilled or his life claimed by someone or something else. During this, he will meet people with incredible personalities, moods and with their own ideals. Some will enjoy the player's company while others can hate him just by his appearance, bad dialog text choices, or by karma that the player accumulates from performing deeds, which can be seen as good by some and bad by others, depending on the faction that foresees it.

Combat will be deadly and extremely complex so players will need to be careful when choosing foes. The player can build his own party by hiring people or asking friends he may have done previously to join him in his crusades. Making a friend will be something that will required time to achieve and your party members will oppose against your command if they do not agree with your orders. So don't expect to ask a party of good men to rob farmers.

The game play mechanics extends itself through out many areas, the player will explore many places and each place will have their own creatures depending of its geographic location. Every living being will react to the weather and some will only be spotted at specific times of day or of the year. The player will be able to craft pretty much every item available in the game and will rely on his knowledge and intelligence to escape puzzling situations. As the world gets closer to the sun the planet's surface changes accordant (the planet has no axial tilt). Proper clothing will be a necessity to endure through cold and hot regions. Creatures will have their own deity and nutrient needs, so you won't survive just by eating apples throughout the whole game. Some will be carnivores others herbivores, omnivores, fruitivores; the player will  need to make sure he carries the right supplies before venturing throughout the world.

NPC will give you quests randomly and there will be times you will take part of epic battles, reaching thousands of NPCs fighting for whatever purpose they believe so. As the player makes allies he inevitably makes new enemies. He can be part of all this or live by his own away from everyone, until trouble finally finds him. The player can marry, have a wife and children in case he plays as an heterosexual character. Yes the player can choose whatever sexual orientation he want to. This will be done throw actions and situations where the game asks for the players opinion regarding a subject and depending on his answer the game the game starts to build a psychologist profile, which can lead to certain changes and action restriction in various circumstances.

There are many other things the player will be able to do like building his own house or castle as long he has the resources, men and time to do it. The player will age with time and he in extreme conditions he can actually die of aging. All items will degrade with time, mainly your food. Magic, alchemy and enchanting will also play an important role but magic will not be used as in traditional games. To cast a spell the mage will need the meet the necessary requirements of the magic school he may try to use. For example, Eclipse magic school requires the sun to be out and Sun magic school requires the sun present in the sky or a source of fire to cast fire spells. Thankfully mages can charge runes to cast spells specially for conditions like this, where they are not able to meet the magic school's requirements.

Text for dialogs, general description of environments or items will be generated on the fly through a complex formula the will use synonyms to generate dialogs without making them look dull and repetitive. NPCs will have memory and remember your doings so the player will need to be extremely carefully when choosing his words. I'm actually planning to build a formula so that you can actually chat with NPC, where he might recognize your words but this will be saved for last.

No non-sense lot. there are no bags dropped with 100 pieces of gold or with healing potions as reward by slaying a cow. At most you can chop the cow's corpse to retrieve whatever the cow's body has to offer. All items displayed in shops and houses or items carried by anyone can either be purchased or stolen. This includes clothing, this way you can leave someone completely naked, if you choose to steal everything from your victim. Book will be an extremely vital source of information able to increase skills as well explaining all there is to know about the game and how the game actually works.

Well and I think this is it, about 50% was left out because it would required examples and more examples so you could have an idea of the flexibility and possibilities present in the game.

Now, I have a major problem, I would like to increase the rate at which the game is being developed, but for this I need help. I don't need coders but people with ideas towards game play, formula assistance on how to keep track of variables and how variables should interfere. I also need researchers to help me out understanding how metals, rock and other crafting should proceed in medieval era.

Most things are open for discussion and I'm a very flexible guy as far ideas are concerned. So if there is a feature you've always wished for and  that never ended being implemented in a game, well I think this is your chance.

I've lost the count of how many times I tried to recruit people for this project, which people seem to love once I get into details but unfortunately people end up doing nothing because either they are too busy or are not really committed to such task.

If you have spare time and would love to be part of some major production with some fool that no one knew nothing about, do feel free to post or add me at skype:
efiletahi-a

I've been brewing this little sucker for 7 years now, with many pauses, redesigns and long periods of negligence due to not having someone to whom I could share my vision and thoughts. I can say that my wife has helped me with race design, but she does not share my enthusiasm...

What I mean by a new type of roguelike is a game retaining the complexity of a roguelike while changing one major game-play key. There will be no "enter-wilderness" option where the player guides its char or party of chars ("@") using the cursor to explore that zoomed-in portion of land. Instead, the game will feature a huge map (a full planet sized map, generated on the fly) in which the player moves his character or party around between large portions of land. The map will have 400x250 areas, giving the total of 100k places to explore, excluding most tiles regarded as sea.

So, is this a good thing? I can't really say it is better or worst for everyone. I know I prefer it this way. I prefer party management to (sometimes) boring exploration sessions. Not that I don't love exploring, in fact it is the thing I love most about roguelike games but sometimes exploration can end up lacking interest, depending the game we are talking about. So in other to fix this "issue" I offer the following game play:

You will have to maintain your party between traveling periods which can last from days to months, depending on distance and terrain type. This means you will have to pay attention to supplies and dress accordingly to climates you may pass by or that may be your destination. Resting will be far more complex, you get to choose who takes care of the food and shelter, how stands on watch (including shifts) and even who helps the wounded. I'm also planning to build some automatism for those not wanting to feel overwhelmed with possible tedious tasks.

You will hit the explore button to explore the current land you are in. During this process many things may occur like locating exploration sites such as dungeons, ruins, camps, lairs, cities, lonely houses and other places of interest and being ambushed by wild life, bandits or enemy forces of the opposing alignment you might be with. Other things will include fortunate and unfortunate situations like a character slipping down a ravine or finding a hidden chest in the woods. There will be a huge set of Skills responsible to change the success rate of everything that can happen during the exploration period.

The exploration of dungeons and other places will then proceed (more or less) as in any other roguelike game, that is, having traditional movement in a zoomed-in view of his char/party as found in roguelike games, though many things will be described in text. Combats will be detailed and deadly as expected, with many unexpected situations making readings like: "Player hits the troll in the left arm causing a massive bleeding" less tedious and repeating. For instance I plan to show the target's body divided in parts where wounded parts will be marked in different colors, depending on its damaged gravity so you can keep track of the target's physical condition as if you were there in the battle.

The game will be operated mostly with mouse has it will have a graphical user interface. Some people will enjoy this others won't. From my understanding, a roguelike's steep learning curve is mostly about the non-intuitive user interface (I still remembering playing ADOM and spending a great deal of time memorizing keys before I could actually enjoy the game), says me, my wife and so says other players I've come to met during my existence.

When in cities a complex interface is planned to show everything it has by categories, like towns persons, buildings, services etc. Every NPC in the game will have a story, background, needs, a personality and can bear good or bad intentions and I want to let the player know each one of them. The cities info (like many other interactive assets and places) will be displayed in a datagrid where filers can be applied (similar to EVE Online). This will let you keep track of everything in an easy way (I guess).

So basically this is it. I'm really not sure how well this "innovations" will be received by you having into account this forum is about a game that plays against some of my game's features. I only ask you to hold your shotgun and friendly discuss these key features with me.

Sorry for the long post and I hope I can finally find a friend with whom I might share such enthusiasm.

Screenies of my work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryuei1b5gf3dw1z/Screenies.zip
NOTE: The editor is the software I'm developing to output the roguelike game. This is from the developer perspective and what those interesting in helping me will use to build the game. The player DOES NOT need to operate this editor to play the game, instead the player will download the game itself.

Please, the map generation screen is part of a previous version which I discarded, pay only attention to the world map presented in it.

So basically the editor offers the flexibility to anyone change the game at any time. Those that will work with me will be able to add skills and attributes without requiring my coding skills to do so. They will be able to include those features they always wished for and if the editor doesn't have a place for them I can make that happen (if they are relevent). I'm focusing on offering tremendous choice and possibilities for each time the player used the game. Each world generated will breed his own creatures, items quests, and historic figures. I'm pretty curious to see it in action!

[Anvilfolk]

Hey!

I saw your post on the DF forums as well.

I think the main problem with the way you are approaching this is that you are presenting this project mainly as a technical one. Look at the opening of the post: you have a list of what I assume are data definition files that need to be done. That's not going to attract a lot of people!

Right now the game appears to be a collection of technical possibilities, but no more. It's hard to get a idea of how the game is going to play out, of what the player is supposed to do, of what his goals might be. Furthermore, you don't appear to have a lot to show for it, so that it looks like it's mostly an ideas thing rather than an actual thing where a "designer" can get involved.

Some screenshots or videos would do wonders, I think

[Endorya]

Hey!

I saw your post on the DF forums as well.

I think the main problem with the way you are approaching this is that you are presenting this project mainly as a technical one. Look at the opening of the post: you have a list of what I assume are data definition files that need to be done. That's not going to attract a lot of people!

Right now the game appears to be a collection of technical possibilities, but no more. It's hard to get a idea of how the game is going to play out, of what the player is supposed to do, of what his goals might be. Furthermore, you don't appear to have a lot to show for it, so that it looks like it's mostly an ideas thing rather than an actual thing where a "designer" can get involved.

Some screenshots or videos would do wonders, I think

Thank you very much for the hint. I will take care of some screenies and post them both here and at DF forums.

[Vanguard]

More important than screen shots would be an explanation of your goals.

What mechanics have you decided to include so far?  Do you want the player's skill or the party's stats to be the bigger factor in determining success?  Will this game have an end goal?  If so, what is it?  If not, how do you intend to maintain the player's interest over time?  How combat-heavy do you want this to be?  Do you want this game to have a strong "snowball" effect, where smaller problems lead to bigger ones, or would you prefer that the player has a good chance to recover?  Are you looking to make more of a sandbox or more of a traditional game?

It's difficult to help someone with design when you don't know what they're designing.

[Endorya]

More important than screen shots would be an explanation of your goals.

What mechanics have you decided to include so far?  Do you want the player's skill or the party's stats to be the bigger factor in determining success?  Will this game have an end goal?  If so, what is it?  If not, how do you intend to maintain the player's interest over time?  How combat-heavy do you want this to be?  Do you want this game to have a strong "snowball" effect, where smaller problems lead to bigger ones, or would you prefer that the player has a good chance to recover?  Are you looking to make more of a sandbox or more of a traditional game?

It's difficult to help someone with design when you don't know what they're designing.

Thanks for your post! I've updated in dark blue a bit further of what is expected to see in the game.

[Anvilfolk]

This seems more like an "everything simulator" than an actual game. At some point if you have to prepare for hours and hours just so you have enough to go on an adventure, it won't be much of a game. It might have this feeling of epicness if you manage to do something, but honestly it might be a little too complex to be enjoyed.

Don't get me wrong, I *love* sandboxes, but they need to allow me to do something meaningful without having to play for 10h just to get ready for my first adventure. I feel you will restrict your playerbase to the most hardcore of players, which is fine if that's what you want

I'll also point out that that feature list is pretty extensive, and comparable to Dwarf Fortress'... DF came out in 2006 and has been in full-time development for quite a few years since then. People will naturally be unconvinced about the feasibility of all this, from a developer with no previous track record Please don't take this the wrong way, it's just the natural way of things for someone without a track record

I've been trying to make a game for quite a few years now, and the feature list of things that I want to put in has been decreasing rather than increasing as I realise how much commitment and work getting everything to work takes

Also, is perma-death going to be an option? I assume not, since it seems like a huge level of involvement for enormous amounts of risk. Even without perma-death, and with saving, if there's so much involved in just staying alive (with all the nutrients, etc), there's the possibility of you getting yourself in an situation where you are going to starve no matter what.

[miki151]

What I mean by a new type of roguelike is a game retaining the complexity of a roguelike while changing one major game-play key. There will be no "enter-wilderness" option where the player guides its char or party of chars ("@") using the cursor to explore that zoomed-in portion of land. Instead, the game will feature a huge map (a full planet sized map, generated on the fly) in which the player moves his character or party around between large portions of land. The map will have 400x250 areas, giving the total of 100k places to explore, excluding most tiles regarded as sea.

I don't understand that difference, can you explain a bit?

[Endorya]

This seems more like an "everything simulator" than an actual game. At some point if you have to prepare for hours and hours just so you have enough to go on an adventure, it won't be much of a game. It might have this feeling of epicness if you manage to do something, but honestly it might be a little too complex to be enjoyed.

Don't get me wrong, I *love* sandboxes, but they need to allow me to do something meaningful without having to play for 10h just to get ready for my first adventure. I feel you will restrict your playerbase to the most hardcore of players, which is fine if that's what you want

No, the editor is used only by me and by all those who want to develop the a roguelike game. You won’t need to change anything. In fact you will download the game itself rather the editor. The editor screenies are there to let those interested in the project see what they will use in other to help me out. I need help supplying the editor with information, not building the editor itself.

I'll also point out that that feature list is pretty extensive, and comparable to Dwarf Fortress'... DF came out in 2006 and has been in full-time development for quite a few years since then. People will naturally be unconvinced about the feasibility of all this, from a developer with no previous track record Please don't take this the wrong way, it's just the natural way of things for someone without a track record

No problem at all 

Also, is perma-death going to be an option? I assume not, since it seems like a huge level of involvement for enormous amounts of risk. Even without perma-death, and with saving, if there's so much involved in just staying alive (with all the nutrients, etc), there's the possibility of you getting yourself in an situation where you are going to starve no matter what.

Saving the game will be a limited feature. You get to save periodically by using a diary and ink which is than consumed afterwards. But if perma-death is something people really demand I will gladly add it.

[Endorya]

What I mean by a new type of roguelike is a game retaining the complexity of a roguelike while changing one major game-play key. There will be no "enter-wilderness" option where the player guides its char or party of chars ("@") using the cursor to explore that zoomed-in portion of land. Instead, the game will feature a huge map (a full planet sized map, generated on the fly) in which the player moves his character or party around between large portions of land. The map will have 400x250 areas, giving the total of 100k places to explore, excluding most tiles regarded as sea.

I don't understand that difference, can you explain a bit?

What roguelike games have you played? I need to know this so I can explain it through a solid comparison.

[Vanguard]

Those screen shots look impressive.  I didn't think you could really live up to your ambitions, but those are some convincing screen shots.

I mean, your goals still sound borderline unattainable, but it at least looks like you're really serious about it.  Even if you can't do everything, you've at least got something, is what I'm saying.

So are there any particular design issues you wanted advice on?

What kind of a setting are you going to use?

A lot of the people around here have a good grasp of game design, and I'd definitely ask for their advice if I had something in the works.  Personally, I'd be happy to give advice on anything, but I can't commit to long-term participation in your project.

I don't understand that difference, can you explain a bit?

Alright, so you know how some games have a world map you can use for fast travel, and you can zoom in on parts of the world map to interact with the world directly?

This game supposedly has a world that large, but it is always zoomed in.

[Endorya]

Those screen shots look impressive.  I didn't think you could really live up to your ambitions, but those are some convincing screen shots. I mean, your goals still sound borderline unattainable, but it at least looks like you're really serious about it.  Even if you can't do everything, you've at least got something, is what I'm saying.

You have no idea of how good I felt by reading your words. Believe me, I'm definitely serious about it for 7 years now. I would just need someone to whom I could share this project. You know to discuss it so I can hear his opinion, ideas an criticism and the best part, this person does not need coding skills but the same enthusiasm I have.

So are there any particular design issues you wanted advice on?

In every possible way, I mean I would like to discuss the whole project and somehow being guided for once instead coding and doing all the heavy lifting as far game designing is concerned.

What kind of a setting are you going to use?

Definitely medieval fantasy! I do love deadly, close encounters as well as huge and majestic creatures. Sword & shield, castles, ruins, ghosts, hunting, vast areas filled with mystery and historical events. There is simple so much "glamor" around medieval times.

This game supposedly has a world that large, but it is always zoomed in.

In fact is quite the opposite, the game will always be in zoomed-out. Hmm, did I fail to explain it? :/

[Endorya]

I really envy those persons who have the luxury if finding someone sharing the same interests and that build something together. Most people wish they could be rich. Me? Just wish I could find someone sharing my interests and enthusiasm.

Long ago I made some table games with some friends but we all moved in different directions and I got alone. I sacrifice most of my spare time to devote myself to this project and sometimes I really wonder if all this is really worthy. But then I keep pushing forward. We have this saying in Portugal: "One will not get tired by running if running is his passion".

[Anvilfolk]

I really envy those persons who have the luxury if finding someone sharing the same interests and that build something together. Most people wish they could be rich. Me? Just wish I could find someone sharing my interests and enthusiasm.

Long ago I made some table games with some friends but we all moved in different directions and I got alone. I sacrifice most of my spare time to devote myself to this project and sometimes I really wonder if all this is really worthy. But then I keep pushing forward. We have this saying in Portugal: "One will not get tired by running if running is his passion".

What?! Mais um Português? Catano, nós estamos por todo o lado!

Sorry guys - just found out this here fellow is my compatriot, haha! Also, I feel for you... that first paragraph pretty much describes me. Turns out I get interested in the most esoteric things and it's almost impossible to find someone to share them with in person...


I think the idea for this game is more like the old game series Lords of Doomdark, or whatever the name was. It's on a more macro level than roguelikes. Instead of manually going around a dungeon, you could simply enter something like a province, and tell your hero to explore. Your hero might find and automatically explore a dungeon, and come back with loot and/or wounds. You won't get to manually fight the monsters. So, more strategy, less tactics? Correct me if I am wrong.



I also think I became confused with your answer to my previous post. I understand that in the editor you can define items, materials, nutrients, races, and that kind of stuff. The game itself uses these. So if you want to go adventuring, like you yourself said, you'll need to prepare and get food with a nice nutrient distribution for your race, etc. This seems a bit like overdoing it - too much to worry about before going on an adventure. A true real-life simulator is probably just as boring as real-life can be Don't you feel you might be going a bit too far in that regard?



Also, out of curiosity, what are you using to program this? Also, where in Portugal are you from?

[miki151]

The project is very ambitious. The only thing it lacks is multiplayer  . If you'll take 2 cents of advice from someone who has scrapped a few projects. Try to start out small, get to a playable state as soon as possible, it will keep your morale up. If you look at big games and other projects around, they all started very small and unambitious. It will be also easier to recruit some help. Frankly, the size of the project and the fact that you only have screenshots would scare me away, if I was interested.

[Endorya]

I really envy those persons who have the luxury if finding someone sharing the same interests and that build
What?! Mais um Português? Catano, nós estamos por todo o lado!

Noooo waayyyyy... Boa surpresa! Nós somos uma praga!

Sorry guys - just found out this here fellow is my compatriot, haha! Also, I feel for you... that first paragraph pretty much describes me. Turns out I get interested in the most esoteric things and it's almost impossible to find someone to share them with in person...

Esoteric things? That is something I'm quite familiar with... what kind of stuff you're curious about?

Your hero might find and automatically explore a dungeon, and come back with loot and/or wounds. You won't get to manually fight the monsters. So, more strategy, less tactics? Correct me if I am wrong.

In my game the exploration of land will be automatic which basically consists on waiting for a progress bar as places of interest get noted in your journal, but when you explore sites like a dungeon you will sense it in 3rd person and move around but by chunks, like a grid in which the dungeon is designed, where a cell may be a room, a corridor, or a long stairway. Combats on the other hand will be mostly done like in final fantasy, where your party and the enemy will be place in a combat area, though they will everything will be represented by text.

I also think I became confused with your answer to my previous post. I understand that in the editor you can define items, materials, nutrients, races, and that kind of stuff. The game itself uses these. So if you want to go adventuring, like you yourself said, you'll need to prepare and get food with a nice nutrient distribution for your race, etc. This seems a bit like overdoing it - too much to worry about before going on an adventure. A true real-life simulator is probably just as boring as real-life can be Don't you feel you might be going a bit too far in that regard?

I've already answered that at DF forums but I will do it also here so that everyone around here knows about it too. Though the game will understand and keep track of what you eat it will not apply penalties immediately in case you don't satiate those values. When you go on an adventure you will go over a store to buy supplies and you will have a button to automatically select all types of food based on all members composing your party.

So with one mouse click you get to buy all the necessary food depending on the estimated days you think you will stay in the wilderness. 1 click is all it takes to  prepare your party with supplies for a 1 week or a 1 month journey. Also, food restriction may not be a problem if you choose a certain type of race but even though the game will alert the player that member X requires a certain type of food. This requirements will add tremendous fun and a deep strategy value whenever you decide to do something. The whole thing works well by having the game constantly supervising and alerting the player of less unfortunate foreseeable situations. So it reliefs the player from the heavy load needing to constantly checking if his party is well fed, hydrated and satiated as far nutritional requirements are concerned, allowing you to focus on actually gaming.

Also, out of curiosity, what are you using to program this? Also, where in Portugal are you from?
[/quote]
I'm using Visual Studio and I'm coding it using C#. I'm from Barreiro, you?