Author Topic: Hydra Slayer (now at 16.1), NotEye (now at 8.1)  (Read 122909 times)

Legend

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #105 on: March 08, 2011, 08:28:01 PM »
Maybe eating mushrooms could heal 1 hp? That way it would provide a way to heal a very small amount of hp without unbalancing the game? And give the mushrooms a use besides simply being an extremely annoying pain in the tukhas.

Darren Grey

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #106 on: March 09, 2011, 12:17:33 PM »
On the other hand, most mistakes in Hydra Slayer do not kill the slayer, but just have a high cost in HP (well, unless if you make a mistake while at low HP of course, then they kill the slayer), which makes it less forgiving than other roguelikes (while e.g. in ChessRogue and Darren Grey's games you have only 1 HP and one small mistake is enough for game over).

Haha, well, I guess different folks have different definitions of fun  ;)

Hydra Slayer's cool by the way.  And it's great to see it under such active development - I never expected an update after the first, but to be on your 10th major release already is very impressive.

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #107 on: March 09, 2011, 08:58:57 PM »
Legend, I don't think that is a good idea... walking around the level and eating mushrooms would be boring IMO. Maybe a special kind of "enemy" called Mushroom of Life, which has many heads, does not move nor attack, and is worth a lot of HP on destruction - but I don't see purpose for this. (Coming to think of it, maybe it could be used with Fungal Necromancy to create "live" zombies which do regrow heads...) I think we do not need an alternate way of healing. And mushrooms have enough uses for now (create bottlenecks, isolate hydras which you don't want to fight yet, provide extra heads for powerswipes/weaponcharges/elves/missiles, and Fungal Necromancy).

Thanks Darren! I don't mean that unforgiving is not fun :) I just point out that Hydra Slayer is somehow on an opposite pole. I think ChessRogue is one of the best roguelikes, and was one of my inspirations for HS 1.0 (the original ChessRogue was created in only three days and it was great, I wanted to repeat this). I never got very far in your games, but I think they are also very interesting.


Legend

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2011, 04:48:48 AM »
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Legend, I don't think that is a good idea... walking around the level and eating mushrooms would be boring IMO

I really don't think anyone would spend the entire game running around and eating the mushrooms just cause they give 1 or 2 hp. I know I wouldn't. But if they were just there so if I was in a tight pinch, might be able to raise my hp just e little enough to survive a little longer by eating a few. Plus the hydras would still be chasing the player. And if the mushrooms are blocking off some hydra's, it still has a risk of letting them get you while you are trying to munch some shrooms. The mushrooms do nothing but piss me off to be honest. They are just in the way and it's a hassle to have to drop my weapon and pick it back up in order to get one out of my way if I don't have a dagger.  Don't get me wrong, I do see their purpose in the game for the most part. They just really annoy me personally.

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provide extra heads for powerswipes/weaponcharges/elves/missiles, and Fungal Necromancy

I don't really understand that. How do they really benefit powerswipes/weaponcharges/elves/missiles, and Fungal Necromancy? What is fungal necromancy?

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2011, 01:54:04 PM »
Legend, Fungal Necromancy is a rune (which you have not probably not found yet), and as for others... well, find it out yourself (it is most useful for missiles). I still don't understand your idea about eating mushrooms...

OK, the new version (10.2):

  • A new special enemy
  • You can now name twins individually from the main menu
  • Stats for the new special enemies from 10.0 and 10.2 are available
  • Hall of Fame now can be scrolled just like everything else
  • Hopefully the bug with weird achievements is fixed

Again I hope nothing is broken :)

Legend

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2011, 05:14:26 PM »
My idea was simply to let the player gain 1 or maybe 2 hp by eating mushrooms. If you are worried about the player abusing it, maybe there could be a chance that the mushroom is poisoned instead of healing and take away a little life. Or maybe the potion that lets you make a trail of mushrooms would only spawn the poison ones so that way the player couldn't keep spawning mushrooms to heal themselves.

Was also hoping there would be a simpler way to take out the mushrooms by maybe kicking or stomping them. It's pretty inconvenient to have to drop your weapon, take out the mushroom, and then pick your weapon back up if you don't have a  weapon with a value of 1 to get the mushroom out o the way.

Shurikens seem a little out of place thematically. Maybe throwing stones, blades disks,  or a boomerang?

I still like your game either way. Just giving some ideas/opinions.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 05:18:19 PM by Legend »

Legend

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #111 on: March 20, 2011, 02:01:31 AM »
Not to get greedy with the interface requests/suggestions, but I was wondering if it would be possible to navigate the other screens with the arrow keys as well? Like the end screen when you press "q" and the title screen. I know you can use the arrow keys to select the player race, but not the other options. Maybe use left and right arrows to choose the player race and the up/down arrows to choose from the other options like quit, player/character name, etc. Would probably need to add a "Start game" option too in order to use the enter key to make selections. Also for the high score screen.

Also wondering if it would be possible to use the escape key to exit out of all the menus, for "q",  and for "no" when the game confirms when you want to use an item. Pressing enter is the same as "yes" but "n" is the only way to select "no". Escape already seems to exit out of most the screens, but not all. It exits out of the inventory screen, but only if you press it twice for some reason.

Was also hoping that for the inventory screen, maybe the player could press "i" for item info and Esc to exit the inventory instead of pressing "h" for item info and "i" to exit. Mostly to cut out one extra key to use. Most other roguelikes also use Esc to exit out of inventory too.

Is the fungal necromancy potion the same as the mushroom spore one? I still haven't found it. The health potion still eludes me as well.

I think the elf is my favorite race so far. Mostly because of the bow. Can the bow be found in the levels for other races to use as well? I haven't found one yet. Just curious.

Haven't really found much use for the shields yet. They have to be the equipped slot in order to have any affect? But you can't use them to damage the hydras?

Thanks again for a great and unique roguelike.

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #112 on: March 20, 2011, 08:42:07 AM »
If the mushroom have a chance of poisoning the eater, then the result is that it is either useless to do this (if they give more damage than health on average), grant a minor but helpful benefit for doing tedious work (if they give slightly more health), or unbalancing (if they give substantial amount of health). Thus I don't see a purpose for this.

Why are shurikens out of place? I think a shuriken with 4 blades is the natural choice for a missile weapon which can cut 4 heads at once. Throwing stones would have to be a thrown blunt weapon. Boomerangs would be more out of place than shurikens, I think.

BTW I would like to have a broad selection of weapons, but each weapon type would need to have a specific mathematical rule which makes sense for that type of weapon. I have idea for thrown stones (I think they would need some extra property to be useful), blade disk (alternative type of a missile blade), and axe. I would like to have spears/tridents/etc, but no idea for a rule for them.

Elves can just shoot the mushrooms with their bow, so mushrooms are not a nuisance for them. For other races, IMO it is a good idea anyway to always carry a dagger (and it seems that other players agree with that).

I think you use the title screen and the 'q' screen too rarely to require the arrow navigation there.

In yes/no prompts, space is also interpreted as 'no'. (And also it exits some menus IIRC.)

The problem with the ESC key is that on some operating systems it seems to be interpreted specially, that's why it sometimes does not work. Can be fixed, yes.

It is impossible to find a bow, you need to be an Elf and bring it yourself.

Shields give protection as long as you have them in your inventory, and can be used as a weapon (a stunner, but usually much weaker than real stunners). I have posted a spoiler about shields previously in this thread.

Legend

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #113 on: March 20, 2011, 06:49:27 PM »
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If the mushroom have a chance of poisoning the eater, then the result is that it is either useless to do this (if they give more damage than health on average), grant a minor but helpful benefit for doing tedious work (if they give slightly more health), or unbalancing (if they give substantial amount of health). Thus I don't see a purpose for this.

I see your points. It was just a suggestion/idea and not really necessary. I do wish the healing potions were a little more common though.

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Why are shurikens out of place? I think a shuriken with 4 blades is the natural choice for a missile weapon which can cut 4 heads at once. Throwing stones would have to be a thrown blunt weapon. Boomerangs would be more out of place than shurikens, I think.

I meant the shurikens seem out of place because when I think of hydras, I think of Greece and when I think of shurikens, I think of Japan. You're right about the stones, guess I wasn't really thinking on that one. lol. A boomerang can be bladed and multiple use cause it comes back to you. Even though they didn't originate from greece either. Bladed disks are vague enough where they could fit in most settings I think.

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I think you use the title screen and the 'q' screen too rarely to require the arrow navigation there.

I respectfully disagree on that one. Most players die rather frequently in most roguelikes (at least myself) and have to revisit these screen fairly often. I usually play several games in a row depending on how far I get or long I last. I obviously don't know exactly how hard it is to implement the arrow key navigation, but if it's not too difficult, I for one would really appreciate it.

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In yes/no prompts, space is also interpreted as 'no'. (And also it exits some menus IIRC.)

The problem with the ESC key is that on some operating systems it seems to be interpreted specially, that's why it sometimes does not work. Can be fixed, yes.
 

I didn't know that. Wouldn't necessarily have to be the escape key then. I guess if the "q" key can be used to exit out of every secondary menu and to use as an alternative to "n". Just like to use the same key for all canceling.

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Shields give protection as long as you have them in your inventory, and can be used as a weapon (a stunner, but usually much weaker than real stunners). I have posted a spoiler about shields previously in this thread.

Sorry. Must have missed that post.

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Elves can just shoot the mushrooms with their bow, so mushrooms are not a nuisance for them. For other races, IMO it is a good idea anyway to always carry a dagger (and it seems that other players agree with that).

I know the elves can shoot them. It's just kind of a pain to have to always carry a dagger for the other races especially when only able to carry such a small number of weapons at a time.

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BTW I would like to have a broad selection of weapons, but each weapon type would need to have a specific mathematical rule which makes sense for that type of weapon. I have idea for thrown stones (I think they would need some extra property to be useful), blade disk (alternative type of a missile blade), and axe. I would like to have spears/tridents/etc, but no idea for a rule for them.

Maybe an axe could divide a hydra into two? so a 6 hydra would become two 3 hydras? I think of the axe being used to split something down the middle. A trident might be able to do 1/3 of damage to whatever hydra it is used against instead of a specific number. Can't really think of anything for the spear except for maybe letting the player attack at longer range of maybe one space away, but that's not really a mathematical rule.

Hydra slayer really didn't look that appealing to me at first, but since I have tried it, it has become one of my favorite roguelikes along side Crawl, Frozen Depths, and Rogue.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 06:55:03 PM by Legend »

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #114 on: March 20, 2011, 08:07:06 PM »
There are weapons which do division, probably you have not found them yet :) The idea about an axe splitting a hydra in two is interesting, but I don't see how it would be of practical use (you will probably need to see more to judge it yourself). But maybe it could be improved somehow...

Thanks for the good words, although I think you have not reached deep into the Hydras Nest yet :)

Legend

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #115 on: March 20, 2011, 08:58:31 PM »
I think of an axe splitting a hydra in two as useful if say you encounter a hydra with more heads than you can manage with the rest of your weapons. Maybe you can't take out a single 10 headed hydra, but you could handle two 5 headed hydras.

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I think you have not reached deep into the Hydras Nest yet

True, think my best is about level 9 or 10 so far. But I usually only have small spurts of free time to play. Still feel the same about the interface requests though.  :P And still one of my new favorite roguelikes. Definitely my favorite of the more abstract ones.

Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.


cephalopoid

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #116 on: March 26, 2011, 04:24:24 PM »
Maybe you can't take out a single 10 headed hydra, but you could handle two 5 headed hydras.

The early ~10 headed hydras are not that relevant to the balancing. You'll find out when you encounter the first boss.
Anyway, such an axe wouldn't be any good really. Wouldn't fit into the context. Hydras regrow heads, not legs. I don't see them hopping around on two or one leg either.
It wouldn't be useful either. Just imagine encountering a 40-headed hydra. If you take a peek at a spoiler explaining the wounding system, you'd instantly see that 1 40-headed hydra deals much less damage per turn than two 20-headed hydras or 4 10-headed hydras.
The basic /2 divisor already fulfills that axe role without multiplying the number of hydras you have to fight.

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Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.

That's a good idea. How about something like "You get a strange feeling of satisfaction."?

Z, I also have my own paired feature request. Please include the background stories' text in the game. Pressing '?' at the main menu or something should bring us there.
Also, please add something to the story explaining what ettins(a kind of giant) are doing in the hydra pit. Are they outcasts(read: emo kids) seeking refuge with other multiheaded creatures or something?

  • Shields now give extra resistance not when the color is matched, but when the shield resists the hydra color (e.g. flaming shield gives resistance to ice hydra attack). (Special shields work like they did.)
  • Limited healing ability from shields (based on the discussion above).

 ;D
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 04:32:27 PM by cephalopoid »

cephalopoid

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2011, 12:15:24 PM »
Another feature request: Scrolls of blinking. Nagas in tight situations will thank their god Z for including them in the game.

cephalopoid

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #118 on: April 01, 2011, 01:06:34 PM »
Bug report: I was playing as a naga, I acquired a bunch of sapphire blunt weapons, values 11, 10 and 2, and I wanted to reforge them. The expected result should be that I get a blunt weapon with value 17. Instead it said "The sapphire great flail is reforged!" and everything remained the same.

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 10.0
« Reply #119 on: April 01, 2011, 03:58:01 PM »
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Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.

I am not sure about this. On one hand it makes you satisfied after finishing your job on a given level. On the other hand, you lose some excitement if you know that there won't be any more hydras behind the mushrooms. But probably yes, it is worth it.

Z, I also have my own paired feature request. Please include the background stories' text in the game. Pressing '?' at the main menu or something should bring us there.
Also, please add something to the story explaining what ettins(a kind of giant) are doing in the hydra pit. Are they outcasts(read: emo kids) seeking refuge with other multiheaded creatures or something?
OK, I'll add the background story to the main menu (when I have time). I'll try to think about some story for ettins.

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Another feature request: Scrolls of blinking. Nagas in tight situations will thank their god Z for including them in the game.

A naga in a tight situation can use a potion of speed or two to escape. (Note that a naga has a speed of 1/2*2*2 = 2 after drinking two potions of speed.) I don't want to include a scroll of blinking, since (a) I want all things to be as original as possible, (b) the game mechanics are currently deterministic; maybe this is not a very important rule, but a scroll of random blinking is not a good enough reason to change that, (c) I love it when your 16000-headed fire zombie blocks a corridor by fighting a 50-headed fire hydra and you can do nothing about that :), (d) I think that Nagas are already one of the easier races.

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Bug report:
I will try to look into that... Thanks!