Messages

106

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: November 18, 2014, 03:37:52 AM »

Awesome. Glad to hear it's running better for you now. Sounds like you got the hang of things enough to make a little progress too. Ilomba (red snakes) and Ukobach (fire demons) are both among the nastier early game encounters, and both can be tough to recruit. I've lost a few characters to both of them myself. If they both showed up together, that's definitely going to be trouble.

Thanks for the compliments and the offer to try a Linux build. I'll make a Linux build next time I do builds (probably when I finish my current item push, going from 12 items to 35!) and we'll see how that goes.

107

Early Dev / Re: Wanderers / open world RL

« on: November 12, 2014, 11:27:49 PM »

Guilty as charged on trying to bump attack. I missed that there was a difference between moving and attacking controls-wise.

I like the idea for the coloring on the damage numbers being the way you gauge an opponent's durability. But, since you don't need this mechanic for damage to yourself necessarily (you know your own HP after all), maybe use a different color entirely for the player? i.e.: brown-red scale for NPCs, white or something not in that scale for PC damage? That would make it easier to tell who's taking the damage, at least at "me or not me" level. I should give it another look now that I actually know how to attack properly though, maybe it isn't confusing when you aren't assuming all the numbers are you + enemy hits when it's actually just you getting hit

Glad to know that consistent starting builds will be a thing later (and are sort of a thing now via command line!) Looking forward to the magic-included build.

108

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: November 09, 2014, 06:44:05 PM »

I posted a new pair of builds (PC and Mac*) that should fix the resolution problems on standard laptops. Now Demon checks out what resolution your system can handle and picks the best one it supports to use, either 1080x720 or its original 1152x864. It attempts to account for a certain amount of OS-level nonsense (Windows Start bar, OSX dock, window title bars, etc.) as well, so you won't get the 1152x864 setting unless you're actually running something like 1280x1024 for example. Unity doesn't allow me to detect the presence of such things unfortunately, so I just have to kind of guess, bleh.

As a bonus, this work seems to have also fixed the issues I was having w/ Retina displays causing graphical glitches/artifacts (probably because I found and fixed a small bug in my sprite code that was invisible at 1152x864 but quite visible at any other resolution.)

Only sad news is that in doing this, I confirmed that free resize will probably be a Major Pain: I had to make a seperate set of UI positions/sizes for 1080x720, there didn't seem to be a way to adjust them procedurally that got good results. I'm going to hope that these two resolutions are enough to cover most users and let it rest there for awhile at least.

* Koiwai, I could actually try a Linux build if you're interested, but I don't have any sort of direct access, even through friends, to a Linux system, so it's pretty much completely untried.

109

Early Dev / Re: Wanderers / open world RL

« on: November 09, 2014, 06:31:26 PM »

Sat down with the 10/10 build you posted a little ways back for a bit. Pretty interesting so far. The starts had a fair amount of variety to them: usually I started in a peaceful village, once I started in one in the middle of fighting either a civil war or an invasion (wasn't sure which), and I had one start that seemed to be a hunting party of sorts: me and number of friendlies in the middle of the wilderness (though we were pretty close to a village as it turned out.) I also found a couple of dungeons which was exciting (though I was mauled to death by animals before I could dive in the first one, and was killed promptly by a skeleton when I managed to get in the second one. )


Couple of interface issues I think are worth mentioning:
* I've had a hard time telling what is going on in melee combat. I see brown numbers, red numbers, and what looks like a VFX for melee attacks, but I've had trouble figuring out what those mean, what's going on, or how a fight is going for me in general. It seems like brown numbers = I took damage, red = I dealt damage... but I'm not sure of that even after playing a few times. It also seems like I try to attack and nothing happens many times, probably a 'miss' result, but without some sort of visual feedback that isn't entirely clear.
* The "press [enter] to restart" text that appears when you die is very faint, I didn't see it for a fair bit.


Oh, are there plans to allow some choice over your character's initial abilities/starting gear? Especially once there's a build out with the magic stuff in it, would be cool to always be able to pick a wizard-ish start.

110

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: November 06, 2014, 04:20:40 AM »

Hey. Thanks for trying Demon out.

Sorry you ran into trouble with the resolution. At the moment, Demon only supports 1152x864, so the 768 vs. 864 there is the problem. I will look into trying to get it to behave better when it doesn't have enough resolution available on the system running it. With regard to the 640x480 resolution lock, none of my own computers are below the target resolution, so I'd never seen the behavior where it locks into a worse resolution after trying full screen mode.

Adjustable window size rather than fixed would solve things pretty nicely, I admit. I'll see if I can figure out what it'll take to get that working. It won't be able to go but so small though, with pixel perfect I can't adjust the size of the tiles/UI, only where and how many are on the screen: go too small and I won't have enough room to show everything without cramming. My first goal on this front will probably be seeing if I can trim down to 768 on the Y axis so I can include standard laptops: not as good as free resize, but probably much quicker to get implemented.

Mouse support's a weird one. I actually have more of it available than is currently used, but commented it out because it seems that the more of it you turn on, the more disruptive the parts still not mouse-controlled become to players. The biggest example of this was when I made the ability buttons respond to clicks: it suddenly became a very big issue that you couldn't also do that in targeting. Full mouse control is a fairly high priority item, but since it's pretty much going to be all or nothing, I'm trying to hold off for a little while I try to get the gameplay to a happy spot.

I'm glad you found it interesting and were able to get to Tower:2 despite the problems. I admit I'm kinda newb when it comes to UI / resolution related things, but even if it doesn't happen super fast I will address the issues with running on less resolution than it'd prefer and more mouse controls. Thank you for the feedback.

111

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: November 01, 2014, 06:07:20 PM »

PC and Mac Builds (new link, switched back to Google Drive): https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-sx_4eW-B5hWnhNZlRPclZLeUU&usp=drive_web

Bleh. Working on new player help is a little brain-numbing, but I managed to push through it over the last week or so and get in what I hope are some useful new player aids: banners that fill in empty party display slots with suggestions on how to fill them ('s' to summon if you have someone healthy enough to fight in your stash, or 'a' to recruit if you don't have anyone else and there's a recruitable enemy visible.) Also did the glowing buttons previously discussed. I doubt either feature is perfect yet, but hopefully they will help new players figure out the summoning system basics. Pretty much no chance of surviving if people don't pick up on those, so I'm willing to bludgeon it slightly for now. If I figure out better ways to handle it, I will.

Here's a screenshot showing these features in action:
 


Next up will probably be an item pass. I've got plenty of "bail you out" consumables, but no items that feel like real rewards to find, stuff you can use right away that just does something awesome. So, that'll be next up on the update list.

I also switched from Google Drive to Dropbox for build hosting because Google Drive's interface is kind of horrible. Though, Dropbox + Chrome sometimes don't get along themselves... I'll keep an ear out for any issues there.

Edit: Added screenshot.
Edit 2: Switched back to Google Drive, grumble.

112

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: October 24, 2014, 03:41:24 PM »

It's definitely a good point. I like the basic idea of making the buttons glow... but if I always do it, it might be overkill (since I'm doing it for more than just the level up functionality.) On the other hand, if people get used to it and then don't see it, you're right that they might not realize it's just a tutorial function that quietly turned itself off.

On the other hand... hmmm. It might not be terrible for them to always light up. Let's see...

Summon: Lights up if you have less than 3 active allies and have at least one good candidate for summoning (i.e.: a monster with relatively good HP still)
Unsummon: Lights up if any ally is in danger.
Activate Link: Lights up if you could recruit a visible monster. Ignores monsters more than X levels below you?
Item: You've found a new *type* of item (i.e.: 1st healing stone, 1st spirit candle, but not 2nd healing stone) since the last time you opened the menu.
Train: When a monster gains its first training point OR when any monster becomes the highest training point count currently in the party. Disables when you open the menu, not went it is spent. (There are plenty of reasons not to spend training points immediately, so I don't think I can hold the glow until they're spent.)
Rest: Out of combat and party is not in peak condition.

Any of those strike you as "too pushy"? Unsummon is the only one that worries me a bit, though not because of pushiness.... there are times it's a very good idea to unsummon, even if an ally is not in danger, and I don't want people to think they can only do it when the button is lit up. I could also just leave that one out of the glowing fun times, and hope the other glowing buttons get them visiting the hotkey bar enough that they catch it. I guess it comes down to showing players that glow means "this is relevant to your current interests" and not "you can only do this now."

Option B might be to take a different approach: Only reveal the buttons the first time they become relevant, then they glow until used. In that case:

Summon: You start with this active and glowing.
Unsummon: Activates once you summon a monster and 'flares' to call attention to itself, but does not glow persistently. (Little iffy on this whole setup. )
Activate Link: Activates first time you find a monster you could recruit.
Kill Command: Always active, but never glows.
Rest: Activates first time you are out of combat and not in perfect health.
Auto-Explore: Activates once you summon your first ally.
Item: Activates when you pick up your first item.Portal Search: Activates once you find a portal.
Train: Activates when a demon earns a TP when you have any other demon in your party as well.
View Party: Always active, but never glows.
Discard: Always active, but never glows.
Help: You start with this active.

I think this approach might help avoid the false messaging problems of the purely glowing buttons approach...though coding it will be a little bit more involved. What do you think of these two ideas?

113

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: October 24, 2014, 04:57:49 AM »

May not necessarily be the most exciting thing ever, but going to try adding a very... subtle?... tutorial system in the next build. I kinda grumble at tutorials in general, especially intrusive ones. Based on your feedback and that of others, the tooltip bar and its mouseovers seem to have a fairly high rate of bailing people out, if only folks mouse over them, but unfortunately (and also based on some feedback) that doesn't always happen.

To try and encourage that, I'm thinking the tutorial system will light up a few of the buttons at appropriate times the first 3 or so times they're relevant, then stop doing that for the rest of the game (maybe even the rest of any game on that same computer.) For example, Summon would light up when you have a good, healthy ally to summon and an open slot for one, then never light up again after the first time you have the maximum of 3 allies at once out. The Activate Link button would light up when you're in the presence of a recruit-able enemy, never again once you've recruited a few guys. etc. Similar things could be used for Unsummon, Item, Teach, and Rest...maybe Explore too, but not sure I need to go thaaat far.

That would be it. I'm hoping the glowy buttons would be effective at calling attention without bothering anyone who picks it up quickly enough to need it. I've seen some similar tricks used for things like level up notifications and what not in other games, I'm kinda hoping I might be able to extend that technique (whose effectiveness+unobtrusiveness I approve of) into actually teaching these parts of the game, which are the ones that differ most from other roguelikes and are least intuitive in general.

Anyway, it may or may not be 'enough', but heavy-handed tutorials really grump me out. I'd prefer to take baby steps in that direction rather than overkill it. I hope to able to finish upgrade up soon, I'd rather be on something more exciting.

114

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: October 21, 2014, 03:26:43 PM »

I'm glad you're liking the recruitment mechanics. Shin Megami Tensei games as a group are pretty much my favorite games. Roguelikes are a pretty close second*. Part of why I started on this project was because I wanted to see if it was possible to combine the two together.

* ::looks around nervously remembering the name of this forum:: Er... I don't have to leave now do I? It's a REALLY close second I promise!

115

Early Dev / Re: The Veins of the Earth development feedback BETA 6.2

« on: October 21, 2014, 03:15:03 PM »

I'm slowly working on adding more spells and on making skills useful, but it takes time...

I understand, believe me. I've been appalled sometimes by how long it takes me to do a decent-sized content push. No worries, I'll have fun times with what's there.

116

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: October 21, 2014, 03:52:13 AM »

Posted a small update! Build links won't change, but here it is again for easy access: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/akfvy4z8fmsavdm/AACrg9QrE7tcXDtLQOsYb_7Ga?dl=0

Manual has been revamped a bit, including a new section on party management and some re-ordering of the chapters. Still relatively short while hopefully containing everything you need to know about the basic game rules. Also adjusted the starting encounters on Tower:1 a bit: goblin pairs should be mostly lone goblins now, and malingees have a somewhat more generous recruitment mechanic.

I'm already working on the next more substantial update. I'll give more details about what that will include soon.

Edit: Build link did change after all.

117

Early Dev / Re: The Veins of the Earth development feedback BETA 6.2

« on: October 20, 2014, 03:20:21 PM »

Cool. I'll try it out either tonight or Wednesday, depends on when I finish up a small upgrade to Demon.

I got a Fighter to 6th level or so. I got into a D&D group a month or so ago, but I found myself wanting just a litttttle bit more D&D than the few hours a week that provides, so I found this at a good time.

Some feedbacky stuff / questions:
* It's pretty fun. I'm looking forward to playing more, especially with item flavors working.
* Are scrolls supposed to be infinite re-use?
* I had a lot of trouble staying fed (though it didn't seem to matter that I ended up Starved!), is there some way to use the corpses to get food ala Stone Soup? I tried just 'using' them, but that just got rid of them.
* My Shaman started with Cure Light Wounds, but couldn't cast it for some reason? Other spells seemed to work as expected for a non-prepared spells class.
* Veins' interpretation of Mobility (+4 AC permanent instead of +4 AC vs. opportunity attacks) is reaaallly powerful. Not sure I can think of a character it wouldn't be my first pick on.
* Speaking of feats though, the only time I could see what feats did was in the Bonus Fighter Feats UI. Is there a way to see that normally?

Going to try mages out once I get the bleeding edge thingie, those are where my heart is anyway class-wise.

118

Early Dev / Re: The Veins of the Earth development feedback BETA 6.2

« on: October 20, 2014, 12:24:35 AM »

Found a bit of free time on my birthday, so bleeding edge builds now have item flavor lua errors fixed and death messages have been added in!

Oh, cool. I was just trying it out and I think I was hitting those item flavor errors. Apologies if this is answered somewhere else in this thread (it's kinda big!), but is there a place to get bleeding edge builds (or do you mean compiling it from the Open HUB page?) I want my wands and potions! (Especially if I'm going to be fighting cockatrices on the first level. Mean old cockatrices...)

119

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: October 19, 2014, 10:02:45 PM »

Thanks for the feedback! Recruiting allies is in the manual... but now that I re-read it with your feedback in mind, it's pretty brief and seems poorly located. Party recruiting/management probably deserves its own section rather than being part of "Advancement".

I read the manual three times and couldn't see it!    I think with the party aspect being so pivotal to the whole playing experience, it could do with a prominent position in the manual. I find a lot of people aren't very receptive to feedback (even when they've requested it) so good on you for taking it on board.

Don't feel bad about not seeing it. The burden for manuals is on the author, not the readers, if something can't be found the first time it's read, the manual's bugged. I've fixed it up nicely (I hope!), party management gets its own section in the next build's version of the manual.

I'm glad you were able to figure it out though: if you don't mind, what helped you figure it out? (so I can do more of that in the future )

Again, it was pretty straightforward. After failing to spot  anything about it in the manual, I looked at the overall UI/HUD and saw a row of icons at the bottom. I thought maybe one of them might be connected to party recruitment so I moused over them until I found the right one.

Cool. The hotkeys and their tool tips are Plan B... though it's supposed to be in anticipation of people not reading the manual, not because the manual whiffed. Still, awesome to know it worked. Thanks!

Damage sponginess is definitely present a bit at the start: the early monsters tend to be a bit lower than average on damage output to help with easing into the more unusual mechanics Demon throws at you from its monster collection lineage. If you grasp those quickly, it might seem to ramp up a little slow... but by Tower:5 or 6 you should be able to find some ways of dealing damage quickly if that's the strategy you want to pursue. Your starting build can also make a difference: Try including Debuff as at least a secondary so you pick up Expose (lowers target's damage absorb.) In particular, Electricity/Debuff is probably the highest total single-target DPS of the starting builds if you really want to obliterate things.

I'll keep an eye on it though, if it's consistently getting feedback of that nature, I'll see about slanting the early guys a bit more towards DPS and see how that does. I'd rather people not die much before at least Tower:3, but on the other hand, I don't want people to assume the whole game is spongy.

Sponginess was the part I was less confident in criticising. I was conscious that it could be an intentional design choice. The thing is that I've played a few times now and so far I haven't managed to get off the first floor. Now, granted, I'm not a great player but the battles often end up feeling like I'm barely scratching the enemies (whether physically or magically) while they lop great chunks of health off me and my allies. Thanks for the tip on debuffing though - I'll look into it.

The other part is that first impressions can be crucial; if the first floor or two are very spongy, expect to lose players to impatience. With many, many games out there and only limited time to play them, a game that feels laborious at the beginning can suffer. Just my opinion, of course.

Oof. Yeah, a bit of early sponginess is one thing, but Tower:1 being that much of a jerk is a bit more frownysome, especially since from your posts it sounds like you've been summoning and recruiting allies and using your starting abilities (most of the T:1 deaths I've seen are before people figure out those things.) Malingees might be a good candidate for moving to T:2, and the pairs of goblins might also need a nerf. Were those the encounters giving you trouble there, or were there others?

I'll swap around the spawn table on T:1 and T:2 a bit, hopefully that can shift the difficulty to a bit gentler place for T:1 (by T:2 you're more likely to be 2nd level and have a full party, lone monsters, even if they're the nastier members of lowbie land, should go down easily at that point.)

This is awesome feedback btw, and exactly the kind I need: fresh eyes on the first stuff players see. It can be almost impossible to fully "pretend" to see something with new eyes, especially something you've been working on, not just playing. Thank you again!

120

Early Dev / Re: Demon: A monster collection roguelike

« on: October 19, 2014, 03:50:22 PM »

There are currently 17 floors to the tower, with approximately 60 monsters (not counting modified ones) total running around, all of which can be recruited. There are also a few human foes.. half a dozen or so... running about to make life interesting in various ways. You can't recruit those, but there may be other benefits to fighting them.

Eventually, it will be 30 floors with many, many more monsters.


The monsters can't be bred directly, but there are plenty of ways to get custom ones:

* Once a monster has been in your party for a bit, it will begin to gain Training Points. These can be used to copy its abilities to other monsters in your party. For example, Goblins have an ability called Low Profile that lets them duck under allied projectiles flawlessly. This is a great ability to pass on to other melee-oriented monsters if you want to use ranged attacks: you'll be able to shoot over their heads while they hold the line.

* Monsters have a chance of spawning "modified" (e.x.: Fiery Goblin instead of just a Goblin), giving them new abilities, resistances, and adjusted stats based on the modifier. Modified monsters can be recruited just like any other beastie (though depending on what you have to do to recruit them, the modifier may make things more difficult. )

* There are unique monsters as well, and even these can be recruited, but the conditions are often rather difficult (and in typical roguelike fashion, you only get one try per game... if they spawn at all!) Still, unique monsters often have unique abilities and/or especially good resistances and stats.

* Future Tech: I am thinking of adding a consumable item that lets you discard one monster to add a modifier based on its type to a second monster. For example, you could use it to discard a Jinn to add "Fiery" to any unmodified monster in your party. I would probably also cause unique monsters to have unique modifiers to offer through it. There may eventually be other items you can use to tweak your monsters in various ways too.

Thanks for the encouragement and well wishes.