Caverns of Xaskazien II - Ver. 0.87.20 released

[Virtua Sinner]

Newest version of the game is up at https://virtua-sinner.itch.io/caverns-of-xaskazien-ii, with some bug fixes, quality of life improvements and more variation to dungeon design.  As always, it's free, so give it a look

[Krice]

I may try it some day, but I can already give some advice on design. I was reading your answers to ugly fonts and only 4-way movement and it seems like you are "that" developer. You know, to whom everything is an opinion and there is no bad design, just opinions. But it's wrong. Some things are just bad, like bad unreadable fonts and likely also restricting movement to only 4 main directions. It's like those guys who invent hexagonal tile map and think it's a nice thing. No it's not, it's just going to ruin the game and that's about it. Some developers can't figure it out, because they don't have the ability to look at their own work in critical way.

[Troubler]

restricting movement to only 4 main directions. It's like those guys who invent hexagonal tile map and think it's a nice thing.

I disagree with this one from experience. For a stretch I only had a laptop and eventually needed to get a peripheral numpad to play most roguelikes seriously.
So there are at least some situations where 4-directional movement would be preferable.

[Krice]

For a stretch I only had a laptop and eventually needed to get a peripheral numpad

If the game is designed for numpad then you need one, and laptops are toys anyway. Also, diagonal directions are quite easy to handle with control key + movement.

[corremn]

The majority of PC playing kids in my country have laptops nowadays.

[Krice]

The majority of PC playing kids in my country have laptops nowadays.

Toys for kids. Sounds about right.

[Virtua Sinner]

It's actually not the laptop issue that's holding me back, as the arrow keys aren't used for movement but for scrolling the screen around anyway.  You can currently use the numpad, or the WASD keys for movement. 

Part of the initial impetus is just tradition.  Caverns of Xaskazien 1 had only 4 way movement, and 2 began as a simple graphical update to 1. 

Part of it was that I read in some article somewhere about roguelikes (or maybe it was discussed on Roguelike Radio?) that newer players tend to find 4 way movement easier to understand and start out with.

Part of it is that I don't want players or monsters moving through impossible diagonal spaces between two walls.  You can do that in a lot of games (like Angband), and it'll be confusing for some folks that you can't move from one empty square to another if walls are in a certain configuration.  I know a lot of people find Brogue frustrating for that simple reason (you can't cut corners if there's a single wall horizontally or vertically adjacent).  I wouldn't be quite that restrictive, but some people just won't grasp it.

Part of it is, honestly, just the coding of it again.  It wouldn't take much - probably just an afternoon - but recoding those wall restrictions (monsters used to be able to move diagonally, so the old code might still be in there, just remmed out), and recoding the autowalk, since you can click any square to pathfind your way there will take some effort.

All that said, I do play a lot of Angband variants and such for my ROGUELove youtube channel, and even I find myself instinctively trying to move in 8 directions now, so it's on the eventual to-do list.  Given my injuries, I can only use a computer a few hours a day anymore, so I have to prioritize.  I've just started work on a huge new perk system, and that's going to take a long while, but perhaps after that I'll find the afternoon to do so. 

At the end of the day, this isn't my career - I'm an actor, not a coder.  It's something I work on because I enjoy the evolution of the game, and I like playing the game, since it's made to my exact specifications.  If others can enjoy the game too, that's cool.

Krice, lemme know if you do try the game and your thoughts at that time.  I know I'll get to Kaduria and Teemu eventually for the channel, if they're downloadable somewhere.

[Krice]

Part of it is that I don't want players or monsters moving through impossible diagonal spaces between two walls.

Magic is also impossible but we have it in many games. I don't understand the way you think, because you can make it possible to slip through diagonal spaces, or not. In some roguelikes you can't get through if you are carrying too much stuff which is funny I think, they clearly thought about it. Whether it's possible or not, players will learn it in one second and adapt to it, even it feels "impossible" or something like it.

[Virtua Sinner]

Like four way movement?

[Krice]

Like four way movement?

If it's something "logical". Like why wouldn't it be possible to move diagonally? Then again, if you break rules in some weird way it feels strange, like the way you can share the same tile with some other creature. The whole time that happened I was thinking did I really attack the monster or not. They did seem to die, but I wasn't even sure about it. The game (or I guess the interface) is really poorly designed, I feel bad to say it.

As a tech tip you should really put more tiles in one file, now they are file per tile. You don't need that 7000+ files in a roguelike project.

[Virtua Sinner]

What made you unsure if you were attacking or that you had killed a monster?

A) There's the usual large print text output saying, "You hit the monster for X damage."
B) There's accompanying text in large red letters saying, "It's Dead!"
C) There are the standard colour coded numbers that float above the combat to indicate damage to one side or another.
D) It makes the different sound effects for hits and misses.
E) It makes a distinct sound effect for the death of any monster.
F) The monster leaves behind a blood splattered corpse.
G) The monster (for obvious reasons) immediately stops fighting when killed.

As a sidenote, you can also modify in the Options menu either or both of Text Prompts and Combat Output.  Admittedly, Text Prompts defaults to Basic, so assuming you didn't modify it, you're already getting as much info as you're going to in the Situation Panel at the bottom (though you can receive less, if you prefer).  But Combat Output defaults to Expert - adjusting this latter down to Intermediate or Basic would add more colour coded scrolling info above the combat literally stating "Hit" or "Miss", if that would help clarify things for you.  I find it overkill, but the option is there.

[Krice]

How do you attack a monster?

[Virtua Sinner]

Enter its square.  While you're in the same square you can pass your turn to continue or walk away (provided it's not Fast) to end it.

[Krice]

While you're in the same square you can pass your turn to continue or walk away (provided it's not Fast) to end it.

So you enter the same tile, then stay in that tile to attack. With some kind of wait command?

[Virtua Sinner]

Yes.  As long as you occupy a tile with a monster, you're in combat with it.  Pressing 5 (or space, I think?) will pass your turn. 

Directly from the README.TXT:

How do I fight?
---------------
Just enter a monster's square.  You'll automatically trade blows.  Passing your turn on a monster's square will let you keep fighting. 

Monsters may occasionally try to flee from you if they feel they're outmatched.  Cowardly monsters, injured monsters or monsters far inferior to you are more likely to do so.  They're less likely the more injured you are or if the monster is more powerful than you.

*NOTE: see below about Combat State and Selective Combat.

TIP: Be sure to point your cursor at the monster to learn about it before fighting.  There's a full breakdown of your combat odds vs. this monster at the bottom right of the screen when you do this.