Author Topic: How to do archery?  (Read 28339 times)

Endorya

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2013, 10:02:19 AM »
You can talk endlessly on forums trying to think how it works or you can try it in actual gameplay. Although it doesn't stop developers making odd decisions in both gameplay and UI. I guess the two important things are control (not too automatic) and avoiding tedious tasks which could be automatic.
True. One should really ponder upon how heavily controlled a game should or not be. Nonetheless, brainstorming is really important as everyone tend to add value to a certain issue due to each one of us having its own way of seeing and handling problems.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 10:07:03 AM by Endorya »
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miki151

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2013, 10:12:35 AM »
Endorya, I'm guessing you already have a specific solution in mind. I'm eager to hear it, that's what I started this thread for (sorry if I was too critical, sometimes my thinking is too narrow).
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Vanguard

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2013, 12:13:25 PM »
I guess the two important things are control (not too automatic) and avoiding tedious tasks which could be automatic.

You know, that's a great way to look at it.

Decide which actions introduce more tedium than interesting decisions, automate that part of the process, and there you go.

Endorya

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2013, 12:13:37 PM »
Endorya, I'm guessing you already have a specific solution in mind. I'm eager to hear it, that's what I started this thread for (sorry if I was too critical, sometimes my thinking is too narrow).
I always want people to be critic and speak their minds. Really, don't let this hold you back, at least when posting towards me :). I've lost the count of times people have corrected my own thinking, it is all part of the growing process towards matters of which we might not be to familiar with.

My solution is bound to the automatism I've referred previously, but I can only implement it once I get a full understanding on how you ranged combat is processed. As Krice stated, knowing the right amount of control you intend to give to the player is very important. We don't want combat to feel too cumbersome nor too simplistic / automatic ending up removing value.

If you need we can discuss this subject over a live chat.
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miki151

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2013, 12:37:49 PM »
What do you mean by how it is processed? Here are my rough goals, if that's what you mean:
- directional firing, as opposed to targeting - I know it's old school, but I like it and I think it results in interesting combat.
- simple and fast UI - I think to fire I'll just use Alt + direction
- automatic missile selection that can be overridden if needed
- preferably having the PC actually wield the ranged weapon, but with such UI that it doesn't result in forgetting to switch too often.
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Endorya

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2013, 03:28:43 PM »
What do you mean by how it is processed? Here are my rough goals, if that's what you mean:
1 - directional firing, as opposed to targeting - I know it's old school, but I like it and I think it results in interesting combat.
2 - simple and fast UI - I think to fire I'll just use Alt + direction
3 - automatic missile selection that can be overridden if needed
4 - preferably having the PC actually wield the ranged weapon, but with such UI that it doesn't result in forgetting to switch too often.

1 - If you are moving towards directional firing, automatism will be impossible to implement as there will be no reference about what you are trying to shoot down. Directional firing has a severe impact over ranged combat mechanics; make sure it remains balanced.

2 - I think your approach is effective and you could in fact do this while having the two-weapon-sets mechanics I had described previously. ALT + DIRECTION to trigger ranged combat and DIRECTION only for melee combat. I would remove the 1 turn delay to switch weapons to make the combat much smoother, mainly to compensate the directional fire, which itself can feel very "castrating" for ranged attacks. Leave the turn penalties for all the other actions like using or equipping all the items outside the two weapon sets. Keeping ourselves rooted to old concepts will restrain our ability to innovate or improve; you as developer have the power to make it happen. 8)

3 & 4 - Are already incorporated in point 2.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:34:00 PM by Endorya »
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miki151

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2013, 03:52:09 PM »
Keeping ourselves rooted to old concepts will restrain our ability to innovate or improve;
We are on a forum about ASCII games :)

So if I were to move to targeted firing, how would the situation change?
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Quendus

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2013, 04:15:14 PM »
We are on a forum about ASCII games :)
I can think of a few people who would disagree with that...

Endorya

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2013, 05:07:20 PM »
We are on a forum about ASCII games :)
I can't say I agree with that :P

So if I were to move to targeted firing, how would the situation change?
The game would select the right weapon set based on the target's distance. Now how you target foes? The most comfortable way I can think of is through the mouse, but if you want it trough keys, well, you can either use the TAB key to cycle through all targets or the ADOM's method. It really depends on the average quantity of foes the game is set to trigger. I would go with TAB for few enemies and target cross-air for large quantities of foes and I would still maintain switching weapon sets costing 0 turns for the reasons I mentioned previously.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 05:14:12 PM by Endorya »
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TheCreator

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2013, 05:16:37 PM »
We are on a forum about ASCII games :)

We are on what?... :D
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miki151

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2013, 05:24:40 PM »
Well OK, some are Unicode and one or two has graphics  ;D
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TheCreator

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Re: How to do archery?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2013, 05:44:53 PM »
Well OK, some are Unicode and one or two has graphics  ;D

All important modern roguelikes have graphics. I used to say that ASCII is totally passé, until I saw your game.

Sorry about the offtopic post. Generally offtopic and flame wars are all I do here ;).
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