Looking for an RL for me

[Insane Chef]

Good morning everyone!

I have been playing a few RL a few years ago (mainly Castle in the Winds, for Windows 3.11) and recently came back with gems like Dungeons of Dredmor, FTL and Binding of Isaac (I know these two aren't real RL, but still...)

So I decided to dig in the genre with games like Pixel Dungeon (android version of Brogue), but looking for something slightly more complex.

This is a list of what I want:

- Random generated levels (dungeons at least, all world too if possible)
- Extreme randomness in items (new unidentified items every game)
- If possible, tileset (not a graphics whore, but need to admit that ASCII is a bit of an eye-sore)
- Easy to pick up, but mainly no need for an external guide/forum/wiki to understand what's going on or what do I need to do
- (not mandatory) No class system, I need to feel customization without finding myself "locked" to a spec/build

That's all I can think for now. I checked ADOM (too complex) and currently trying out UnReal World RPG

Any ideas?

[guest509]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup might fit the bill.

ToME is also very popular.

Both have classes though.

[Insane Chef]

But which one has the highest amount of random generated content? I want a completely new adventure every time I click "start"

[Nymphaea]

Almost every RL the items are completely randomized each game. Here's a fun little one from someone on the forum, Kali's Ladder, which lets you choose from plenty of skills each game to build your character. No download needed, its online, so try it a few times and see how you like it (games don't tend to last too long)

[Ex]

Good morning everyone!

I have been playing a few RL a few years ago (mainly Castle in the Winds, for Windows 3.11) and recently came back with gems like Dungeons of Dredmor, FTL and Binding of Isaac (I know these two aren't real RL, but still...)

So I decided to dig in the genre with games like Pixel Dungeon (android version of Brogue), but looking for something slightly more complex.

This is a list of what I want:

- Random generated levels (dungeons at least, all world too if possible)
- Extreme randomness in items (new unidentified items every game)
- If possible, tileset (not a graphics whore, but need to admit that ASCII is a bit of an eye-sore)

Pretty much every roguelike has these three. If you want a tileset in a roguelike that doesn't have one, try noteye.

- Easy to pick up, but mainly no need for an external guide/forum/wiki to understand what's going on or what do I need to do
- (not mandatory) No class system, I need to feel customization without finding myself "locked" to a spec/build

These two are pretty much impossible to find, especially in combination. There are very few roguelikes without class systems.

All roguelikes are randomly generated when you play them, so "highest amount of random generated content" is kindof meaningless since they all randomly generate their content. There are a few that have some static content like ADOM's overworld, but they're rare and the static content is usually confined to a single area or two.

Anyway, here's some roguelikes I recommend, but they don't meet your specifications entirely:
Crawl, TOME, Angband, ZAngband.

[Insane Chef]

here's some roguelikes I recommend, but they don't meet your specifications entirely:
Crawl, TOME, Angband, ZAngband.

Thanks Elig, could you please tell me which one of these has more random content and is easiest to pick up?

By random content I mean dungeon level maps, always different, not only mobs and objects/loot

Thanks!

[AgingMinotaur]

I'd check out TOME if I were you. If I recall correctly, the UI is easier to pick up than Crawl or Angband. Also, why not give Powder a try? Regarding random content, as has been pointed out, this is by many considered the main feature of the genre. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find a RL without randomized level layouts etc.

If you can live without the fantasy theme, classless games may be easier to find: In my opinion, two really nice games are Infra Arcana (horror/Lovecraft) and Caves of Qud (post-apocalyptic/mutants; UI smells of ADOM and Dwarf Fortress – not very palatable – but the game is a friggin' masterpiece).

As always,
Minotauros

[Z]

I think IVAN meets your criteria very well.

- (not mandatory) No class system, I need to feel customization without finding myself "locked" to a spec/build

In Crawl, the class only defines your initial equipment and skillset. But you are not locked, you can learn whatever you want.

[mrrstark]

Caves of Qud uses a skill system for character advancement, you get points based on your Int and you spend them to buy the skills you want. Very flexible.

Even more flexible if you make a mutant character where you get to select and buy mutations at character creation and as you level.

Even _more_ flexible if you play a mutant with 4 arms, 4 legs, and double jointed mutations......

I just got my friend into Caves of Qud, he'd never played roguelikes and never played a game with ASCII graphics, and he's loving it.

Tip: there's an option in the options menu to "Disable Floor Textures" which toggles off a lot of the visual clutter that many people seem to object to.

[guest509]

A for a new dungeon, loot and monsters each time. I can't think of a roguelike that lacks these qualities. Procedural generation is the corner stone of the genre, meaning that every time you start the game it digs out a new dungeon for you and scatters about items and monsters. There may be only a finite number of items and monsters, but they are strewn about in infinite ways.

[Ex]

here's some roguelikes I recommend, but they don't meet your specifications entirely:
Crawl, TOME, Angband, ZAngband.

Thanks Elig, could you please tell me which one of these has more random content and is easiest to pick up?

By random content I mean dungeon level maps, always different, not only mobs and objects/loot

Thanks!

All of them have random levels. Random dungeon levels are the most core aspect of any roguelike. If it doesn't have random levels, it's really not a roguelike. Like Jo said, procedural generation is the cornerstone of the entire genre.

As for easiest to pick up, it's a draw between Crawl and TOME. TOME is probably technically more complicated, but Crawl has a lot of nuances. I find Angband very easy to pick up because the gameplay is so straightforward, but it's not quite as self explanatory as Crawl. Angband requires a certain knowledge of roguelike tropes, but otherwise is very straight forward.

I also second the suggestion of powder. I've never played it personally, but always heard very good things. IVAN is also a quality roguelike.

[Insane Chef]

Thanks lot for the excellent suggestions.

Will spend the rest of the week trying them and will let you know!

[Darren Grey]

Some explanations of the ones which best fit you:

Powder - Has tiles, no classes (deity choice ends up a bit class-y, but you can change frequently mid-game) and lots and lots of randomness.  Very easy to get into and quick to play.

ToME4 - Has tiles, great interface.  Has classes, but there is a lot of customisation within class progression - it's not linear.  It has a lot of random items, but you might find some of the dungeons a bit samey between multiple playthroughs.  The game doesn't have a good wiki, entirely because all of the explanations are already in the game in the form of tooltips.  Really easy to get into, but also very complex when you get into the depths of things.

Brogue - Has a tiles version, no classes, lots of randomness.  Generally considered the best "designed" roguelike in terms of balancing.  Lots of interesting features and enemies.

There are no games with a good randomised overworld, with perhaps Dwarf Fortress as an exception.

[kraflab]

I challenge you to play brogue and still consider ascii to be an eye-sore!

[Insane Chef]

Been playing CRAWL for the last few days, very nice indeed, but a bit "simple".

Now trying out ToME (still downloading), will let you know.

Is ADOM that hard to grasp? Too many trips to the wiki?

Which one is your favourite and why?