Author Topic: Is Doom RL just that awesome?  (Read 26561 times)

NON

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 11:31:34 AM »
I'd say the first RL to make ranged combat (as the main playstyle) not annoying is pretty original.

What original it is when it's copied from Doom? Don't let ascii fool you. DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. It's not even a roguelike.

Of course DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. They're not making *any* effort to claim otherwise. If anything it's like the Slashie.net RLs; a straight up tribute/what if game X was a RL.
Also, how is it not a roguelike. I'm pretty douchey when it comes to letting games call themselves a roguelike, and even I don't see anything wrong with DoomRL's claim?
IIRC Krice's requirements for a game earning to be called a Roguelike includes numerical quantities. I.e. it must have > X monsters, > Y items, etc.

Actually in a sense I agree with this, not that I wouldn't call it a Roguelike if it didn't fulfill them, but I think it's a noble goal for a Roguelike developer to strive for (a game with many things to discover). A game with this ambition has a very different "spirit" about it than just a simple puzzle or action game. You get the sense that it puts you in a world and let you role play, rather than just make you solve a puzzle.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 11:55:36 AM by NON »
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Quendus

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 02:02:26 PM »
First level and several more or less optional/compulsory special levels. But they're the minority.

guest509

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 01:55:41 AM »
  Doesn't DoomRL have as many items and monsters as Rogue?

  Rogue had
  -26 monsters +
  -23 scrolls
  -16 potions
  -14 rings
  -7 staves/wands
  -15 weapons
  -8 armors
  -rations and fruit
     = 85 items total.

  How many for Doom?
  -29 Monsters +
  -59 weapons
  -46 armors
  -42 other items
    = 147 items total

  Making no statement about roguelike or not, numbers of items and monsters fails to eliminate DoomRL from the discussion.

TheCreator

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 06:43:34 AM »
Rogue is not a roguelike. Compare with ADOM (about 350 monsters + 65 unique monsters, 61 potions, 47 spells, didn't count other stuff). I make no statements about awesome or not (never played DoomRL), but in terms of numbers of items and monsters it is already eliminated.
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

guest509

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 07:26:55 AM »
So to be a Roguelike means you need, say, at least twice as many items as Rogue? Maybe 3x?

You realize this takes your definition into the realm of insanity. One could make a game very similar to Rogue, and not quality. That's just silly.

But now we've devolved into a discussion of 'but it is a roguelike?' This is nearly always folly.

TheCreator

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 07:32:20 AM »
I'm not saying that DoomRL is not a roguelike. I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike and that DoomRL has a small number of items. On the other hand, the realm of insanity has always been very familiar to me - otherwise I would never spend half of my life programming games ;).
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

NON

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2013, 08:51:09 AM »
  -59 weapons
  -46 armors
Oh wow. Haha I guess I haven't played it in a LONG time. I thought it mostly just had the items from Doom 2.
Happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes.

guest509

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2013, 09:33:31 AM »
  Well I just checked out the wiki. When I actually play it sure seems like there aren't many items. I've played very little doom but a TON of rogue.

Krice

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2013, 09:54:22 PM »
Of course DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom.

Which means it's not a roguelike. It's doomlike.

Legend

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2013, 05:09:02 PM »
Quote
I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike

That is like saying that Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden are not metal. Or that Lemmy isn't God.

In my opinion, the only sense in which that statement is true is because Rogue cannot technically be a roguelike because it IS Rogue. There was nothing "like" it when it originated.

I think that most the people that make such a claim that Rogue is not a roguelike are people who didn't get into the genre until after the bubble burst and roguelikes came crawling out of the wood works. I remember for a long time, Rogue, Angband, and Adom were the only options. I definitely don't think that huge amount of content equals roguelike. Just my opinion anyways.

Rogue set the template and almost all subsequent roguelikes followed the conventions that it set. It's really only in the recent past few years where devs have started to stray away from that mold as opposed to simply adding to it. At least in  a major way.

As for DoomRL, it's definitely good. I don't think it's "that" good though. In it's evolution, I think it has gotten away fro it's original charm. Not all that doom-like anymore either. The gameplay almost requires you to take certain paths and make specific choices to be successful. I feel like there is less freedom of play styles. I dislike the unlockable system for the most part too.

I do give it big props for it's very well done ranged combat and how it feels very action orientated.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 05:13:50 PM by Legend »

st33d

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2013, 09:10:29 PM »
Can we have a new term called Roguelike-Krice-Doesn't-Like? Because that covers just about anything which I'm happy to play.

-

I got to play the new tiles-DoomRL on OSX finally the other day. It, err, well, the interface is a bit dodgy. It's context sensitive to the point where I'm constantly opening my inventory even when I don't want to. Which is a bad example of context sensitivity. No VI keys, no keys at all it seems - which is pretty irritating on a turn based game on my desktop. The tiles - I usually rate Derek Yu's art, but this just seemed a bit ropey and didn't have any of the charm or humour of seeing Doom in ascii. The medium difficulty seemed ludicrously soft as well. I managed to get quite a way in before dying, which is bizarre compared to when I played it last in ascii.

All in all, a bit underwhelming.

Still a nice game. Just not quite as nice as I remember. Bit like Minecraft really.

kipar

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2013, 09:23:47 PM »
I'm playing new version without tiles, because i don't like these tiles too. And Ultraviolence difficulty is.... ultraviolent. I got to level 94 (Ao100) in it, but only once.

AgingMinotaur

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 09:28:28 AM »
Can we have a new term called Roguelike-Krice-Doesn't-Like? Because that covers just about anything which I'm happy to play.
It covers just about anything, period. In fact, Nethack would be the only RL not fitting the bill! ;)

As always,
Minotauros
This matir, as laborintus, Dedalus hous, hath many halkes and hurnes ... wyndynges and wrynkelynges.

guest509

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2013, 11:17:44 AM »
Quote
I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike
Or that Lemmy isn't God.

  Whoa now Legend. Just whoa. Let's not get crazy in here. Lemmy begat all gods big and small and Jesus calls him grandpa...so... ;)

Legend

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Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2013, 02:09:35 AM »
Quote
I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike
Or that Lemmy isn't God.

  Whoa now Legend. Just whoa. Let's not get crazy in here. Lemmy begat all gods big and small and Jesus calls him grandpa...so... ;)

Oh, I fully concur with you.  I think you may have taken my statement slightly out of context.

Since Lemmy most certainly is God, I think, ultimately, we can thank him for Rogue and all roguelikes.

And thus, Rogue is most certainly a roguelike.