ADOM: Resurrection via IndieGoGo (~$90K funded, 1.2.0p4 private update out)

[Z]

Is there any way to see the older comments on the campaign? I seem to be able to see only the most recent 19.

[Darren Grey]

It seems not, which is a shame.  Also bugs out if you try to look at too many of hte donators.  IndieGoGo seems to have a few bugs in general.

[AgingMinotaur]

And I won’t get into the “open versus closed” source discussion here ;-) That has been done a couple of times in other places (once again) a lot of times. But the highest stretch goal is to release ADOM as open source. I personally doubt we’ll get there but it will have to be seen… exciting times and scale effects on Internet are something hard to guess beforehand.

I like how he continues to hold his source code hostage. I like how it's "the highest stretch goal". Classy.

I wish Biskup and his team all the best with this funding project, and I think ~50k would be more than well earned (even if seen in part as "retrospective" payment for developing ADOM). But the "[holding] the source code hostage" bit I actually find quite dickish.

If that was really what he wanted, Biskup could release the sources, and I don't think he would regret it. Being coy about it (as in stating that he'd "need" half a million bucks to do it) just comes off as miserly, IMHO. It would be much more sympathetic if he just openly said he's not releasing the sources in any foreseeable future – end of discussion.

Sorry. Just letting off some steam I sincerely hope for Thomas B. and ADOM that the fundraiser will be a success. Maybe I'll even chip in a tenner.

As always,
Minotauros

[guest509]

  I was thinking that maybe his sources are a resource with which he hopes to one day make a living. He figures they may be worth half a million over his life time?

  Surely I speculate, but it's probably something a bit like that. His work. His game. His baby. His cash cow. Something along those lines.

EDIT: The cat and mouse game he plays with his sources I put down to sheer eccentricity. His way off getting LOL's. I think we all understand why he ultimately doesn't release.

[Chex Warrior]

Is ADOM II going to fall by the wayside because of this?

[guest509]

  I think he talked about it on Roguelike Radio. He can do a bit of both if he gets the money, if I remember right.

[Darren Grey]

He's said that most of the ADOM work will be done by Jochen, not him, so ADOM II development will continue.

[getter77]

Yep, next major ADOM II release should be coming up any week or so in July now even.

[getter77]

Poll now up on the official ADOM site to get a community feel for some of the most sought after things, out of a selection, for the initial wave of stretch goals beyond the 2 new races/professions should all continue to go well.

[Skeletor]

I don't mind if Biskup wants 48k to continue the project. If he requests money to be motivated, he can have mine and I'll not judge him for doing so.
My only concern is that even though cash is for sure a big driver for humans, it isn't even distantly comparable to how strong is that other special inner motivation that just comes by itself, making you put hours and hours of energy into a project.. spending endless nights without even knowing what the result will be. I think when we follow that kind of motivation something magic happens, and all humanity biggest achievements have been produced under its effect (Adom included of course).
So I just hope that under his desire of financial gratification, there still is some of that special fuel that definitely made him begin the project.

We'll see.
I am usually cynical but he earned my trust showing the world what he's capable of, so I believe he will do a great job.

[getter77]

I'm thinking that spark is there, since just prior to this funding drive, and with still no commercial apparatus in place after several months now even with it taking awhile to even mention the Deluxe notion, he's been hard at work on ADOM II and banging out releases----so much so that he went so far this time as to seek out the Music/Sound and Visuals/UI fellows to enrich the game in ways that he knows to be beyond his own skills and aptitudes, which ADOM never got even back in the heyday all those years ago.

[Holsety]

After almost ten years of inactivity on a roguelike to which he himself admits has critical bugs...
I don't think that anyone thought "If only this game had some immersive music, like Skyrim! Or tiles!".
(Ok, someone may have thought about tiles, but feh.)

There's plenty of things I outright dislike about Mr. Biskup that would immediately go away if he was just honest with himself. Just say you're not going to release the source, don't be a tease, don't shroud your shit with "maybe, but I doubt we'll reach that goal".

If he wasn't so dead set against people maybe modifying his game (adding races and classes, just like he's planning to do now if he gets more money than he wanted) this game would have remained a major roguelike, and it would have had its bugfixes 9 or 8 years ago.

I can understand full well (and respect) that it's his game, and it will be developed according to his vision, but it's just such a weird vision!

If you KNOW you might not make your 48k goal because your "loyal following" is "out there, unaware", and if you KNOW you're not going to do ANYTHING to the game if you don't make the goal,

*inhales*

why not just cut out the MUSIC and VISUALS guys and turn THEM into stretch goals, since they're un-needed extras? If there's anything people who like ADOM want from Biskup it's to fix the bugs already and make sure it runs on modern systems. Not MUSIC, not TILES, not extra races and classes, NOT STATUES OR A DONATORS' TOME.

Maybe, just maybe the goal would be LESS than 48k if he didn't have to pay sound-n-visuals' salaries.
Maybe it'd be around 24k, and he'd be well over halfway there already off the donations of what little fanbase he has left after 10 years of silence. (Completely disregarding JADE)

This crowdfunding campaign just rubs me all the wrong ways because he's dangling a bone in front of whatever fanbase he has left, when he should know the goal could have been more realistic if he had a more humble project in mind. (Ie just fixing the bugs, and not adding sound, tiles and additional platforms to it)



And as a mostly unrelated side note, concerning the people in the RPS article's comments section who ask "Does eeeeeeevery roguelike HAVE to be open source?"; Well, no I guess not. But if you've made a game for free, and it has glaring bugs, and you're not planning to work on it ever again because you've already moved on to your NEXT game, why not just release the source code so other people can learn from it and maybe fix your errors. Worst thing they can do is release a fork/variant/branch oh no.

[Krice]

Worst thing they can do is release a fork/variant/branch oh no.

It can be a bad thing. Angband is a proof that bad things can happen. If I understood it right Biskup will get his money only if 48k is reached during that time. It's dumb if you ask me, but it makes everyone who didn't donate feel bad. Such an evil plot. And then Biskup can blame it all on them.

[Nachtfischer]

why not just cut out the MUSIC and VISUALS guys and turn THEM into stretch goals, since they're un-needed extras? If there's anything people who like ADOM want from Biskup it's to fix the bugs already and make sure it runs on modern systems. Not MUSIC, not TILES, not extra races and classes, NOT STATUES OR A DONATORS' TOME.

Don't underestimate the value of a "shiny" production (especially tiles). Not concerning gameplay, but accessibility and therefore financial aspects. Just wrote a comment about that in Biskup's blog.

[getter77]

Indeed, I don't believe in the odd self-defeatism that seem to pervade much of the Roguelike community that reckons it somehow awesome to literally flee from adding proper attributes like visuals and sound to the games outside of deliberate artistic wranglings.  In terms of historical claim, Roguelikes have been with gaming since very nearly the beginning---so too should it be perfectly acceptable for it to experience growth on all fronts same as the rest.  I mean, where would the basic RPG genre of old have gone if they'd also decided to eschew such nice elements, or pretty well other types of games?  There's no downside to ADOM getting some visual/UI polish alongside a potentially spiffy official score as it isn't a zero sum game where there's either "gameplay" and "all else/fluff".

Roguelikes can have quite a lot, if not it ALL---just a matter of doing and circumstances.   We have literally never been in a more vibrant, lively, and varied time as we have these past few years and it stands to only become better as we go with due diligence, cultivation of newcomers seeing what all the fresh fuss is about, and a bit of luck.

Nobody is stating seriously that ADOM on the whole with Biskup in tow hasn't taken a strange and meandering path to get to this junction, as that would just be flat out ignorance in terms of history.  It is what it is though, and polarizing figure or no the best of it is to be made from the lot of it----can't go back in time so we might as well contend with the present so as to strive for a richer future.  Afterall,  there is literally no other potential past that would've led us to the particular set of outright good in the situation that is above dispute, like Biskup not trashing the source code and his excellent work this far on ADOM II----there are no guarantees of order of events even beyond logic.