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Messages - Game Hunter

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46
Other Announcements / Re: Let's Play... a Bunch of Roguelikes!
« on: June 14, 2012, 02:49:14 PM »
Whoops, forgot to update here quick enough: started up Rogue Survivor yesterday. It's looking to be pretty interesting, with a good potential for LP since I'm not even sure there's an overarching goal. Just how long can I survive!

7DRL 2012 playlist is basically done at this point. Assuming I can get some of the "unplayed successes" to work, there will be some bonus videos, but it's more or less complete. A big thanks to everyone who watched through most of them!

47
Programming / Re: Cars in a roguelike
« on: June 02, 2012, 12:41:51 AM »
This is the error I received, even with the latest update:
Code: [Select]
Fatal: OGRE EXCEPTION(7:InternalErrorException): Could not load dynamic library
RenderSystem_GL.  System Error: The specified module could not be found.
 in DynLib::load at C:\Programming\ogre\OgreMain\src\OgreDynLib.cpp (line 91)
I installed the OGRE source just in case it was necessary, but it didn't help. Attached are the bnb/ogre logs as well.

By "lean left" you mean keeping the orientation but still putting the car a bit to the left?

(where soft-turn is the full motion and soft-turn is for roads)
I guess here's a typo? ;) What degree/angle should a hard turn have in your opinion?

I'll just state explicitly how I'd expect the turns to go, given the direction of the discussion (and assuming X is the current velocity):
  • Leans are one space to the left/right, X spaces forward, with a maintained directional orientation.
  • Soft turns are are X spaces left/right, X spaces forward, with a 90-degree rotational change in orientation.
  • Hard turns are one space to the left/right, X-1 spaces forward, with a 90-degree rotational change in orientation. (The X-1 accounts for the difficulty of the turn at higher speeds.)
Some of this could be scaled (perhaps once you're at speed 4-5 you'll lean two spaces over) but this is the general idea. The player should understand that faster cars have less control and get used to the idea of slowing down when maneuvering sharply: given the smoothness of the GUI, I don't think it'll end up clunky at all.

The required "space" necessary to make those turns depend on how much leeway you want to give the player. Leans should take up most of the two-width box from point to point; soft turns take up a lot of room due to the motion involved; hard turns should be fairly minimal in space to make them useful. You could consider adding a "line of motion" that projects how the car will move during a given action, so it's more obvious to the player when they can or can't move in a particular direction. (Maybe even go a step further and allow the player to drive through obvious collisions but requiring confirmation. This radically changes how you set up the motion, however, since you'd want to factor in objects of varying momentum to know how the car is affected.)

EDIT: For whatever reason the forum doesn't seem to like attachments at all, so I've included the logs directly:
Code: (bnb.log) [Select]
20:20:44: Info : Start of Basements & Bosses Version 0.0.1 | Rev. 61
20:20:44: Info : Initialising Graphics (OGRE)
Code: (ogre.log) [Select]
20:20:44: Creating resource group General
20:20:44: Creating resource group Internal
20:20:44: Creating resource group Autodetect
20:20:44: SceneManagerFactory for type 'DefaultSceneManager' registered.
20:20:44: Registering ResourceManager for type Material
20:20:44: Registering ResourceManager for type Mesh
20:20:44: Registering ResourceManager for type Skeleton
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'ParticleSystem' registered.
20:20:44: OverlayElementFactory for type Panel registered.
20:20:44: OverlayElementFactory for type BorderPanel registered.
20:20:44: OverlayElementFactory for type TextArea registered.
20:20:44: Registering ResourceManager for type Font
20:20:44: ArchiveFactory for archive type FileSystem registered.
20:20:44: ArchiveFactory for archive type Zip registered.
20:20:44: FreeImage version: 3.13.1
20:20:44: This program uses FreeImage, a free, open source image library supporting all common bitmap formats. See http://freeimage.sourceforge.net for details
20:20:44: Supported formats: bmp,ico,jpg,jif,jpeg,jpe,jng,koa,iff,lbm,mng,pbm,pbm,pcd,pcx,pgm,pgm,png,ppm,ppm,ras,tga,targa,tif,tiff,wap,wbmp,wbm,psd,
cut,xbm,xpm,gif,hdr,g3,sgi,exr,j2k,j2c,jp2,pfm,pct,pict,pic,bay,bmq,cr2,crw,cs1,dc2,dcr,dng,erf,fff,hdr,k25,kdc,mdc,mos,mrw,nef,
orf,pef,pxn,raf,raw,rdc,sr2,srf,arw,3fr,cine,ia,kc2,mef,nrw,qtk,rw2,sti,drf,dsc,ptx,cap,iiq,rwz
20:20:44: Registering ResourceManager for type HighLevelGpuProgram
20:20:44: Registering ResourceManager for type Compositor
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'Entity' registered.
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'Light' registered.
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'BillboardSet' registered.
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'ManualObject' registered.
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'BillboardChain' registered.
20:20:44: MovableObjectFactory for type 'RibbonTrail' registered.
20:20:44: *-*-* OGRE Initialising
20:20:44: *-*-* Version 1.7.4 (Cthugha)
20:20:44: Loading library RenderSystem_GL
20:20:44: OGRE EXCEPTION(7:InternalErrorException): Could not load dynamic library RenderSystem_GL.
System Error: The specified module could not be found. in DynLib::load at C:\Programming\ogre\OgreMain\src\OgreDynLib.cpp (line 91)
20:20:44: *-*-* OGRE Shutdown
20:20:44: Unregistering ResourceManager for type Compositor
20:20:44: Unregistering ResourceManager for type Font
20:20:44: Unregistering ResourceManager for type Skeleton
20:20:44: Unregistering ResourceManager for type Mesh
20:20:44: Unregistering ResourceManager for type HighLevelGpuProgram
20:20:44: Unregistering ResourceManager for type Material

48
Programming / Re: Cars in a roguelike
« on: May 31, 2012, 02:02:43 PM »
I created a small video of my game for all the people who don't want to invest their time in downloading and testing the game I supplied in my previous post for whatever reason:
Often I have more time to simply comment on things and less time to actually work at something. I tried downloading and running your prototype last night but received an error regarding some DLL (which sounded related to Ogre). I'll give you an exact copy of the error when I can.

Looking at the video, however, I REALLY like the aesthetic of the car movement design. It would appear to be fluid enough to use without slowing down the player significantly.

Some of the controls appear limited, however, at least based on what you use in the video: changing velocity appears to be key-based while selecting a direction appears to be mouse-based. Ideally you'll want to be able to control all movement in the car with either or.

I also noticed that there are a rather large number of options to move, which could potentially make key-based movement rather convoluted. At the most, I was expecting seven distinct motions per velocity: forward, lean left/right, soft-turn left/right, and hard-turn left/right (where soft-turn is the full motion and soft-turn is for roads), which the exception of moving backward instead of forward when the car is in reverse. For some reason there's always two squares for forward, which isn't necessary if speed changes are handled separately; there are also some rather sharp leans, which I wouldn't expect a car to handle very easily; for soft/hard turns at speed 1 there's no noticeable difference, but when including leans, you have spaces that act differently depending on the orientation of the car. All of this depends on how you want the cars to move, though, so take it only as a consideration.

I'll try to give better feedback once I can get the prototype to run myself.

49
Other Announcements / Re: Let's Play... a Bunch of Roguelikes!
« on: May 23, 2012, 02:08:05 PM »
It's time to play some POWDER! The interface is a tad clunky for a standard PC but it's really not bad at all. More importantly, I can slap this game on my DS for out-of-town dealios.

Also of note is that I engaged in some ChessRogue, forgot to post about that. Definitely a very different approach to the roguelike style and something everyone should experience at some point.

And yes, the 7DRL 2012 games are STILL going through. I finally got some Linux emulation going, so we'll be able to do just about everything at this point. (Except for DuneRL, which is Mac-based and unfortunately cannot be emulated legally on a non-Mac computer. Sorry about that!)

EDIT: Also also! I used to upload around noon EST: now I'm uploading around midnight EST. Just a heads-up.

50
Any files you put into your "Public" Dropbox folder are accessible to anyone that has the weblink. I believe the use of the other folders is with regards to specifically sharing them with other people, or for your own personal use.

So yeah, just put the game in Public and post the link.

51
Other Announcements / Re: Let's Play... a Bunch of Roguelikes!
« on: May 07, 2012, 04:14:14 PM »
Now let's try Rings of Valor! Probably won't be a real long LP but we'll see how far it goes. (I'll probably end up editing this post for new games unless there are replies.)

And yes, the 7DRL 2012 playlist is still being added to. Got 44 games in there now, still a ways to go! Don't forget to check out 7DRL 2012 game talk for general discussion.

52
Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: 7DRL 2012 game talk
« on: May 04, 2012, 09:26:12 PM »
Man, those reviewers sure were forgiving when it came to completeness and aesthetics. A lot of the games I've played so far were pretty close to the mark in other categories, but so very many didn't feel nearly as polished, both mechanically and as a matter of controls/UI. Frankly, these are the lowest priority on the list when it comes to 7DRLs (as what I'd both consider as a developer and expect as a gamer), so I wouldn't weigh them as much as the other categories, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't end up low anyway.

Incidentally, I wouldn't mind doing a more formal written-style review for any of the games from this year, on a per-request basis. Nothing with scores, mind you, but I'm pretty good about being detailed.

53
Other Announcements / Re: Let's Play... a Bunch of Roguelikes!
« on: May 04, 2012, 08:56:39 PM »
After watching ninth part I wish to express my gratitude again. PRIME has just received a modification which shows prices of items in shop without requiring player to pick them up exactly as you suggested. There are several more improvements you mused about.
Glad to be of assistance! Part of the purpose of this kind of LPing is to offer "advice" through my complaints and nitpicks. Were it not blind-running, I may already be used to some of the game's apparent or imagined deficiencies and not express my distaste for them (which is often why developers overlook ease-of-use implementation more than other aspects). It's not always something that requires changing, but it's usually food for thought either way.

I heard you wish to collect knowledge about the game so In return let me present you with some facts about ZapM. One commenter said spoilers for ZapM are not widely available. This is true. Knowing the code in and out I am pretty much spoiler library on two legs so do not hesitate to ask questions.
I gotta say, I was surprised not to find any sort of wiki or guide (besides the developer's) for even simple stuff like stats and descriptions. More than anything I tend to use the wikis for items that I have no idea what's going on, or maybe some weird nuances that are sort-of understood but would require a rather large amount of effort to figure out.

And while I would like to go about collecting that information, who knows if I'll have to time! Gotta move onto other roguelikes, after all. I'll certainly hit up PRIME at some point, since it basically sounds like ZAPM+.

- Categories: (ok, this may sound obvious but please bear with me)
In parentheses is raw damage. xNUM means NUM shots fired and bullets used per firing round.
-- handguns: pea shooter (1-4), blaster (1-8), phaser (1-8 + 2-12 blinding), laser pistol (1-8 + 2-12 blinding), pistol (1-8), assault pistol (2x 1-8)
-- light guns: sniper rifle (1-10), shotgun (4-24), laser rifle (1-12 + 3-18 blinding)
-- heavy guns: pulse rifle (3x 1-8), chaingun (6x 1-10), laser cannon (4-48), railgun (3-30)
-- sword: katana ("antique sword") (1-10), light saber (2-12 + 1-6 fire)
-- basic melee weapons: anal probe (0 damage), mop (1-8), club (1-6), cattle prod (1-4 + 1-6 stunning), dagger (1-4), nunchucks (2-8), bat'leth (2-12), chainsaw (2-12)
-- thrown weapons: football (1-6), rad grenade (4-32 radiating), stun grenade (3-18 stunning), concussion grenade (3-18), frag grenade (4-24)
- unarmed: punch (1-6)

- A railgun shot takes 150% time it would take to fire any other gun.

- Melee attacks receive damage modifier:  (Str - 10) / 2. Str 14 means +2 to damage, Str 8 -1 to damage.
This is especially the kind of important stuff that should quite honestly be available in-game already. (Sounds like PRIME has in-game descriptions, so I hope it has these as well!) Otherwise the player's just firing guns and noticing that some hurt more than others, but not enough to know if it'll kill something with some amount of health (ala tricorder). I don't mind figuring out some things, but when there's no way to discern something other than blindly collecting raw data, that's when I draw the line.

Seems kind of silly that so many things can have BDO status but not actually matter. I suppose this is to obfuscate what DOES matter, but I'd say if something cannot be affected either way, it probably shouldn't be bothered to have a status.

In any case, thank you very much for the feedback!

54
Programming / Re: weight / encumbrance in roguelikes
« on: May 04, 2012, 04:00:22 PM »
Limiting the player isn't inherently bad. The game rules limit what the player can do all the time! You're usually limited to how many spaces you can move in a given turn, what kinds of actions you can perform, and so on and so forth. Weight/encumberance should be treated the same way: limit the player's choices in a manner that is strategically and/or tactically interesting.

The standard use of weight and encumberance is to give every item a particular, universal weight, all of which combine into the "inventory weight" of the player. The player becomes encumbered whenever the inventory weight becomes greater than some value, often scaling with attributes like strength, and being encumbered usually causes the player's speed to decline. One might call this a pseudo-realistic approach, because all massive objects will have weight, and surely someone holding so much won't be able to move and/or react as quickly as someone who doesn't. However, as it often the case in games, trying to use a realistic approach tends to detract from gameplay. Thus I would recommend to attempt a more novel implementation.

If you're planning on both using both a hard limit (total inventory space) and a soft limit (too many items makes you weaker) then you should probably try to make them interact. For instance, require that inventory is limited to what containers you bring (backpacks, sacks, chests, purses, satchels, etc), each of which also has a weight. This means that you have to plan out not only what to bring with you, but what to bring that will allow you to carry more as you venture further.

You also don't need to strictly follow "weight" as the means to encumber the player, but use some other metric. Perhaps if a player is carrying too many items of a certain type, it takes longer for them to use that particular type of item. (I have 20 weapons all jumbled together, where the heck is that dagger?) Without necessarily limiting what the player uses, they will likely optimize certain item types depending on what they expect to require in combat. Or you could make it so that carrying too many items makes it easier for them to break or spoil or rust or any other kind of item degradation.

So yeah, I'd stay away from the traditional system if you can and try something that would positively impact the game's limiters.

55
Programming / Re: Cars in a roguelike
« on: May 04, 2012, 02:14:11 PM »
Here's just a small update/mockup for the "show all available states" idea:

...

Red state indicators mean that there will be a crash. Black indicators present safe targets. A transparent version of the current car will show its new orientation after selecting the corresponding target/state.
Looks pretty good so far. I take it the mockup indicators don't include all possibilities (since the right side is missing turning positions). Are we looking only at possibilities for a given speed? If so then the red indicators on the left wouldn't be reachable, if not then the surely we're also missing the speed-1 indicators as well. I'd only show indicators for a given speed so the player isn't swamped with too many options: it should be simple enough to change the indicators with an appropriate increase or decrease in speed.

I suppose we haven't really considered the possibility for driving the car in reverse, although it shouldn't be all that different from driving the car forward. I think most cars take measures to prevent reverse gears until you've stopped, so forcing the player to hit zero before moving into negative speeds is probably reasonable. At that point just have a maximum negative velocity that's some amount less than the absolute speed of the car itself (though this can certainly vary on a per-model basis).

Regarding the graphical stuff, you should probably decide whether or not you want to commit to sub-turn rendering at all. Since (I assume) this game isn't only about cars, you'd want to include this kind of animation for anything that would have sub-turn movement, like projectiles (not guns but anything thrown for sure) and structural/environmental collapse (e.g., falling buildings). You may want to consider applying the mechnical framework for these things anyway, since they could very well help in applying the causal effects even if they're not explicitly shown. It'd be a pretty large undertaking though, so it's totally your call.

56
Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) / Re: 7DRL 2012 game talk
« on: May 03, 2012, 03:19:13 PM »
I've been pretty busy posting a 7DRL "blind-run review" nearly every day since the contest ended, so I have 40 done now, with even more coming. You can find the playlist here (which is an easy way to scan all the ones I've currently done). They're not formal reviews by any means, but you should be able to get my general impression of a given game by watching the video.

57
Programming / Re: Cars in a roguelike
« on: May 03, 2012, 02:21:59 PM »
@Game Hunter and requerent:
I like the idea of showing all available states for possible car movements but I also think it might feel slow (in comparison to the movement of a player) if the player has to click the desired state. Maybe those available states should only be shown if the player changes direction. If he keeps moving into the direction of the previous step he just needs to press a "skip turn/step" key. If he wants to increase the speed while keeping the direction he needs to press the corresponding key for this direction and the key for the opposite direction to decrease speed.
This way moving horizontally or vertically can feel fast while turns (changes in direction) will feel a bit slower because of the 'state selection' but that's okay. I mean, making turns with a real car also feels slow, doesn't it?
Yes, I can see this working, especially if we're using the numpad-for-movement approach. So let's say that the car is moving up:
8 - increase speed
2 - decrease speed
4 - initiate turn counterclockwise (to the left)
6 - initiate turn clockwise (to the right)
7 - initiate strafe counterclockwise (shift to the left)
9 - initiate strafe clockwise (shift to the right)
5 - confirm and move car

Confirm should also work with any other defined wait key, like spacebar. These controls are generalized with (counter)clockwise so it always makes sense (if you're moving left, the keys would instead be (respectively) 4/6/2/8/1/7/5). Similarly, for mouse users, you could have a loosely-visible HUD over the car that shows what tile to click for these various commands (click on the car to move, click ahead of the car to increase speed, click to the car's left for a counterclockwise turn, etc.). Additionally, since moving the mouse constantly to just tell the car to keep moving would suck, I'd make it so that clicking anywhere outside the defined tile-HUD counts as a wait.

However, there's still a small problem. The roads I am using won't support smooth curves, i.e. only manhattan like layouts. So turns like these:

# = Road
C = Car
/ = Possible Collision
. = Not Road

#####     ##/CC
#....     #//..
#.... --> //...
C....     #....
C....     #....

...would cross nonroad terrain and therefore result in the car driving against pedestrians. You might say that the player needs to slow down before turning but I am asking myself how this would feel and if the mentioned approach is precisely and easy enough to do it. I guess this discussion would highly benefit from some kind of prototype.
You could just keep with the snap-to turning if you feel that the large-curve turning would force players to spend too much time at on-road intersections. You could also allow for both and give some kind of toggle between on-road and off-road styles. Maybe if you're on a road tile, pressing the "turn right" button once selects the snap-to turn and pressing it twice selects the large-curve turn, and vice versa if you're not on a road tile. (Since this would toggle, a third press would go back to snap-to, fourth to large-curve, etc). This works quite nicely because all motion has to be confirmed via wait button anyway, so it shouldn't be too much for the player to handle.

With regards to a car's speed, I'm basically thinking that part of a car's stats is how quickly it can increase, how quickly it can decrease, and what its maximum speed is. A typical car might be able to increase and decrease speed by 1, with a maximum speed of 4. Cars with better handling should be able to decrease speed rather easily, while speedster cars should have better increase and maximum. In this way the player might get to choose between a fast car and a stable car if they're trying to escape police or whatever.

58
Programming / Re: Cars in a roguelike
« on: May 02, 2012, 04:20:55 PM »
A car should have to be driven with respect to its rate of movement. If a car is moving faster, then it should do so without the player being able to control every discrete step. If you turn while going too fast you'll enter a drift-- you can intentionally turn too early to drift into the turn, but you do so at a loss of exit speed.

With these qualities of driving in consideration, it may be better to have cars 'jump' to a target tile based upon their speed rating-- you can then interpolate to the target tile and see if any collisions occur. I ask about the rendering engine because you can render the full 10 tiles worth of movement while only passing 1 turn worth of gameplay.

Based upon these things, you can have the player 'plot' their movement based upon the constraints of their velocity. IE- car is facing west moving at 5 tiles per turn. The car has a breaking speed of 3 tiles per turn and can accelerate 2 tiles per turn. That means that the player can move the car west a number of tiles within the range of 2-7.
That's about as much as I'm "with you" regarding the mechanics for using the car. While it would be totally awesome to work in pseudo-physics handling and rendering the car at an arbitrary rotation, I don't think it works given the level of discreteness going on. Based on what I can see in the images provided, the car is two units big, and BrightBit doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot with regards to interpixel collisions: include the factor that the aesthetic is going more for simplicity (sacrificing, if you want to call it that, the mechanics by doing so) and the complexity you were describing doesn't really fit all that much into what's going on.

Basically, what I'd do with car movement is allow the player to increase or decrease the speed (maximum and increment dependant on the car), which determines how many units it crosses in a single turn. (The input for this should be independent of movement, as it will predetermine the distance traveled.) Naturally if there are obscales between the two points, the car will crash, with the damage dependant on speed. The idea will be that the player will have to decrease speed accordingly in order to make sharp turns. For example, this is what I'd expect for a car turning at 1 speed and 2 speed, respectively, given the current model:

...     ...
.X. --> .XX
.X.     ...

...     .XX
.X. --> ...
.X.     ...

Turning at faster speeds could also take longer, if only because there are some obvious braking requirements. Alternatively, you could force extra horizontal movement, changing the obstacle tiles. Here's an example for a 3 speed car, where the asterisks indicate collision checks:

.....     ..*XX    ..*XX
.....     .**..    .***.
..... --> **... OR ***..
X....     .....    .*...
X....     .....    .....

The collision indicators could easily be shown during the confirmation. (A lot of this is repeat of requerent, but I figure that pictures help.)

You may also want to take into account "stafing": that is, moving to the left or right without actually turning the car. This can probably be accomplished with the use of diagonal keys, which would otherwise have limited use in the car.

I essentially agree with the interpolated collisions for moving objects. You don't need to do into TOO much detail, I guess, but there should be a difference between high-speed and low-speed collision damage.

59
Other Announcements / Re: Let's Play... a Bunch of Roguelikes!
« on: April 26, 2012, 09:12:30 PM »
I won it several times and actually am developing a variant.
Some have mentioned PRIME to me, and I plan on doing it at some point as well. So many roguelikes, so little time...

I also like how you are kicking from a diagonal direction. A habit from Adom?
I didn't notice this until you mentioned it, but yeah, that would definitely be from ADOM's boulder traps. Granted no other game has a specific penalty for diagonal kicks, so sticking into PRIME would be amusing to say the leaset.

By the way, you can try price ID. It will give you some clues as to how expensive a thing is and at the same time how good/bad things it could do. Expensive things are either very good or very bad.
This is something I learned from NetHack, and if I had felt I had time to do so, I'd probably figure out the rough pricing for everything. But I already spent the better part of an entire video (it'll be P3) in Robot Town and here from on I'll probably start and stop the recording as necessary when it comes to shopping. I'll probably at least figure out the cost for ID floppys, if only because they're so dang important.

Waiting patiently for the second part.
Just a heads-up if you don't know, I try to record videos every weekday. I already have enough videos to get through the weekend, so that's a bonus for once.

60
Other Announcements / Re: Let's Play... a Bunch of Roguelikes!
« on: April 25, 2012, 04:16:16 PM »
And now we go into ZAPM. It's a good refreshing feeling to move out of the settings we've seen so far and move into something a lot...different, I guess! All of the same concepts are there, but simply putting a new label can really help revive that roguelike spirit.

I believe I'm a little over halfway done with the 7DRL 2012 games, excluding failed attempts (although I do plan on trying those, or at least the ones that can be played). Still chugging along!

As always, if you have anything you want to say about my videos (praise, anti-praise, criticisms, suggestions), my ears are always listening.

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