Temple of The Roguelike Forums

Game Discussion => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn-based) => Topic started by: deathknight1728 on March 01, 2013, 05:07:12 PM

Title: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: deathknight1728 on March 01, 2013, 05:07:12 PM
Ive been playing this game a lot and its a lot of fun. Im making good progress with this game and I learn which builds work and which ones dont. My first char wasnt serious and so I didnt get far. However, my 2nd nearly beat the game and I learned a good deal about which traits to choose. Now Im on my 3rd character and think I will get even further with a 3rd char.

Does anyone else play this game? I have been having a blast and although its hard, its not too hard. Just watch out for those pain elementals. They're scary.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: wire_hall_medic on March 01, 2013, 05:15:57 PM
Yes, it is just that awesome.

While unfocused builds will get you killed, I've had good success under a number of different builds.  Basically I find that maximizing DPS (DPT?), and minimizing need for healing are what get me through.  Ammo management becomes an issue mid game most of the time (I've managed to win on a melee build), and is worth considering from the beginning of the game.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: deathknight1728 on March 01, 2013, 05:21:34 PM
Yeah melee is a lot of fun because you have to really strategize your charge and finesse/hug the walls stay towards the shadows.

I hope that sometime in the future, aliens rl will get a graphics overhaul like Doom rl. That would just awesome as that has a lot of potential as well.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 01, 2013, 08:28:52 PM
  I was trying to make some AliensRL graphics but it's not really set up for it. The graphics file doubles as the text file. So sad...
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: getter77 on March 02, 2013, 01:17:34 AM
Pretty much, and a substantial update looms from the funding drive alongside just about all the other projects in the Chaosforge stable---good times ahead at some near point in the future to be into their fine dongs.   8)
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Holsety on March 02, 2013, 08:24:06 AM
good times ahead at some near point in the future to be into their fine dongs.   8)

What am I reading?  :D

I don't like most of the chaosforge RLs.
Haven't tried BerserkRL, wasn't particularly fond of AliensRL, DiabloRL was... partially interesting, even if it's trading off the usability of being realtime and having a mouse interface for the "gimmick" of having it be a RL.
DoomRL's their finest work by far, and it is good.
I'd be surprised if they updated their other RLs to match its level of polish (gameplay and UI-wise, not talking about tiles).
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: getter77 on March 02, 2013, 12:56:55 PM
No telling on the balance of the updates to come, though I would imagine the most dramatic effects to be gained for DoomRL since it already has so much fleshed out to build upon---doubly so since the funding pledge drive was very DoomRL centric.   :)
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 03, 2013, 06:46:27 AM
  Yeah. DoomRL is the flagship product over there. AliensRL gets some scraps once in awhile, thankfully.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Krice on March 04, 2013, 11:46:39 AM
It's not that good or original.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Quendus on March 04, 2013, 02:33:05 PM
I've played very few other roguelikes with such a focus on ranged combat, especially ones that streamline ranged combat so well. AliensRL and Mutant Aliens! do it, but they're both heavily influenced by DoomRL.  Angband eventually added a one-keypress command to shoot at the nearest enemy, but managing different ammo types in the quiver is still unpleasant.
I'd say the first RL to make ranged combat (as the main playstyle) not annoying is pretty original. And good.

That said, the requirement to unlock challenge modes is very frustrating when changing computers, the network of prerequisites/blocks for levelups is difficult to navigate if you haven't memorised it, and the need to look up spoilers for assemblies is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Krice on March 04, 2013, 08:31:13 PM
I'd say the first RL to make ranged combat (as the main playstyle) not annoying is pretty original.

What original it is when it's copied from Doom? Don't let ascii fool you. DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. It's not even a roguelike.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 05, 2013, 03:23:27 AM
  Boooo Krice. Always shitting in the punch bowl.  :-*

  The Chaos Forge games are pretty solid IMO.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: wire_hall_medic on March 05, 2013, 06:26:57 AM
Clearly, Krice's definitions of good, original, and Roguelike are different than mine.  However, every one's entitled to their own tastes, and I'd never recommend he waste his time playing games that don't suit them.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Quendus on March 05, 2013, 07:28:53 AM
Back in form, I see :)
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Holsety on March 05, 2013, 08:46:34 AM
I'd say the first RL to make ranged combat (as the main playstyle) not annoying is pretty original.

What original it is when it's copied from Doom? Don't let ascii fool you. DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. It's not even a roguelike.

Of course DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. They're not making *any* effort to claim otherwise. If anything it's like the Slashie.net RLs; a straight up tribute/what if game X was a RL.
Also, how is it not a roguelike. I'm pretty douchey when it comes to letting games call themselves a roguelike, and even I don't see anything wrong with DoomRL's claim?
Combat is unimodal, it's turn-based, tile-based, has resource management, levels are procedurally generated, death is permanent. I'm pretty sure you can even go back to ascii mode if you so wish.
Aside from the first level being static and there not being an identification system in place I don't see what's NOT RL about it, but feel free to point it out, you've made me quite curious.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: NON on March 05, 2013, 11:31:34 AM
I'd say the first RL to make ranged combat (as the main playstyle) not annoying is pretty original.

What original it is when it's copied from Doom? Don't let ascii fool you. DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. It's not even a roguelike.

Of course DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom. They're not making *any* effort to claim otherwise. If anything it's like the Slashie.net RLs; a straight up tribute/what if game X was a RL.
Also, how is it not a roguelike. I'm pretty douchey when it comes to letting games call themselves a roguelike, and even I don't see anything wrong with DoomRL's claim?
IIRC Krice's requirements for a game earning to be called a Roguelike includes numerical quantities. I.e. it must have > X monsters, > Y items, etc.

Actually in a sense I agree with this, not that I wouldn't call it a Roguelike if it didn't fulfill them, but I think it's a noble goal for a Roguelike developer to strive for (a game with many things to discover). A game with this ambition has a very different "spirit" about it than just a simple puzzle or action game. You get the sense that it puts you in a world and let you role play, rather than just make you solve a puzzle.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Quendus on March 05, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
First level and several more or less optional/compulsory special levels. But they're the minority.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 06, 2013, 01:55:41 AM
  Doesn't DoomRL have as many items and monsters as Rogue?

  Rogue had
  -26 monsters +
  -23 scrolls
  -16 potions
  -14 rings
  -7 staves/wands
  -15 weapons
  -8 armors
  -rations and fruit
     = 85 items total.

  How many for Doom?
  -29 Monsters +
  -59 weapons
  -46 armors
  -42 other items
    = 147 items total

  Making no statement about roguelike or not, numbers of items and monsters fails to eliminate DoomRL from the discussion.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: TheCreator on March 06, 2013, 06:43:34 AM
Rogue is not a roguelike. Compare with ADOM (about 350 monsters + 65 unique monsters, 61 potions, 47 spells, didn't count other stuff). I make no statements about awesome or not (never played DoomRL), but in terms of numbers of items and monsters it is already eliminated.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 06, 2013, 07:26:55 AM
So to be a Roguelike means you need, say, at least twice as many items as Rogue? Maybe 3x?

You realize this takes your definition into the realm of insanity. One could make a game very similar to Rogue, and not quality. That's just silly.

But now we've devolved into a discussion of 'but it is a roguelike?' This is nearly always folly.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: TheCreator on March 06, 2013, 07:32:20 AM
I'm not saying that DoomRL is not a roguelike. I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike and that DoomRL has a small number of items. On the other hand, the realm of insanity has always been very familiar to me - otherwise I would never spend half of my life programming games ;).
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: NON on March 06, 2013, 08:51:09 AM
  -59 weapons
  -46 armors
Oh wow. Haha I guess I haven't played it in a LONG time. I thought it mostly just had the items from Doom 2.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 06, 2013, 09:33:31 AM
  Well I just checked out the wiki. When I actually play it sure seems like there aren't many items. I've played very little doom but a TON of rogue.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Krice on March 06, 2013, 09:54:22 PM
Of course DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom.

Which means it's not a roguelike. It's doomlike.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Legend on March 12, 2013, 05:09:02 PM
Quote
I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike

That is like saying that Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden are not metal. Or that Lemmy isn't God.

In my opinion, the only sense in which that statement is true is because Rogue cannot technically be a roguelike because it IS Rogue. There was nothing "like" it when it originated.

I think that most the people that make such a claim that Rogue is not a roguelike are people who didn't get into the genre until after the bubble burst and roguelikes came crawling out of the wood works. I remember for a long time, Rogue, Angband, and Adom were the only options. I definitely don't think that huge amount of content equals roguelike. Just my opinion anyways.

Rogue set the template and almost all subsequent roguelikes followed the conventions that it set. It's really only in the recent past few years where devs have started to stray away from that mold as opposed to simply adding to it. At least in  a major way.

As for DoomRL, it's definitely good. I don't think it's "that" good though. In it's evolution, I think it has gotten away fro it's original charm. Not all that doom-like anymore either. The gameplay almost requires you to take certain paths and make specific choices to be successful. I feel like there is less freedom of play styles. I dislike the unlockable system for the most part too.

I do give it big props for it's very well done ranged combat and how it feels very action orientated.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: st33d on March 25, 2013, 09:10:29 PM
Can we have a new term called Roguelike-Krice-Doesn't-Like? Because that covers just about anything which I'm happy to play.

-

I got to play the new tiles-DoomRL on OSX finally the other day. It, err, well, the interface is a bit dodgy. It's context sensitive to the point where I'm constantly opening my inventory even when I don't want to. Which is a bad example of context sensitivity. No VI keys, no keys at all it seems - which is pretty irritating on a turn based game on my desktop. The tiles - I usually rate Derek Yu's art, but this just seemed a bit ropey and didn't have any of the charm or humour of seeing Doom in ascii. The medium difficulty seemed ludicrously soft as well. I managed to get quite a way in before dying, which is bizarre compared to when I played it last in ascii.

All in all, a bit underwhelming.

Still a nice game. Just not quite as nice as I remember. Bit like Minecraft really.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: kipar on March 25, 2013, 09:23:47 PM
I'm playing new version without tiles, because i don't like these tiles too. And Ultraviolence difficulty is.... ultraviolent. I got to level 94 (Ao100) in it, but only once.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: AgingMinotaur on March 26, 2013, 09:28:28 AM
Can we have a new term called Roguelike-Krice-Doesn't-Like? Because that covers just about anything which I'm happy to play.
It covers just about anything, period. In fact, Nethack would be the only RL not fitting the bill! ;)

As always,
Minotauros
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on March 26, 2013, 11:17:44 AM
Quote
I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike
Or that Lemmy isn't God.

  Whoa now Legend. Just whoa. Let's not get crazy in here. Lemmy begat all gods big and small and Jesus calls him grandpa...so... ;)
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Legend on April 06, 2013, 02:09:35 AM
Quote
I'm saying that Rogue is not a roguelike
Or that Lemmy isn't God.

  Whoa now Legend. Just whoa. Let's not get crazy in here. Lemmy begat all gods big and small and Jesus calls him grandpa...so... ;)

Oh, I fully concur with you.  I think you may have taken my statement slightly out of context.

Since Lemmy most certainly is God, I think, ultimately, we can thank him for Rogue and all roguelikes.

And thus, Rogue is most certainly a roguelike.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Kirbypowered on May 02, 2013, 08:55:08 PM
I've only played a few rounds of this, but I quite enjoyed it, more so after switching to ASCII. I didn't mind the tiles too much (to be honest it's my first time playing a roguelike in tiles besides a sad attempt at ToME), but I couldn't seem do very well with them for some reason...

I suppose I should actually play Doom itself, too. I don't recall having ever played it.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: Holsety on May 08, 2013, 10:42:50 AM
Of course DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom.

Which means it's not a roguelike. It's doomlike.

Well played. I was going to reply with "Except it plays like Rogue instead of Doom, so it's a roguelike", but that's not what I originally said at all. The blame is mine entirely. Instead of saying "DoomRL is an ascii version of Doom" (which it is most certainly not) I should have said "DoomRL is a roguelike with all the context and flavor of Doom".

HOW NOW, BROWN COW?
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on May 10, 2013, 05:04:24 AM
  :-* A question has come to my attention :-* lay me in the smelling salts and bring me my wine  :-* for I am about to prognosticate on the nature of this game  :-* what great and meaningful question this is  :-* the eternal question  :-* the question to end all questions  :-* the thing most important, most mighty, the thing we all must know to allow our souls to rest  :-* BUT IS IT A ROGUELIKE???  :-* The mystical mists gather before my gaze  :-* I see the answer  :-* it's coming to me  :-* the god Rodney speaks to and through me kind brothers  :-* YES! YES!!! It is!!! What glorious day!!!  :-*  We finally have an answer!!!!

Well I guess that settles it.
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: PerspectivDesigns on July 02, 2013, 01:03:15 AM
Doom RL is pretty cool! I usually show it, along with Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, to newbies to get them into roguelikes. Then I show them Dwarf Fortress  ;D
Title: Re: Is Doom RL just that awesome?
Post by: guest509 on July 05, 2013, 06:19:04 AM
You sir are a cruel man.

I show them my own games first...they act interested.  :-\

I laugh then show them Cardinal Quest then to Brogue.