Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Announcements => Traditional Roguelikes (Turn Based) => Topic started by: Z on July 26, 2010, 07:16:14 PM
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After playing MathRL I have decided to try to create another roguelike based on some kind of mathematics, and here is the result.
The game is all about heads, you use your weapons to cut hydras' heads, and then they grow them back, usually. You need to choose your weapons carefully, just bashing the hydras with your "best" weapon is not likely to be a successful strategy. I think choosing your set of weapons and using your resources efficiently is quite challenging and fun in Hydra Slayer.
This is a small game, created in one day of writing and one day of playtesting.
Hydra Slayer homepage (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php)
Please post your log files :)
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Your link is a bit messed up. And why do you not have the file name as .zip?
Seems like a fun little game, but I find the vikeys very frustrating to use :( Very impressive for a day's work, I must say.
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Yeah, it was messed up, I have fixed it. My hosting site does not allow me to name my files as .zip, but it lets zip files named strangely, so I do that. (Maybe I should change to a better hosting, but on the other hand, IIRC there was no such problem when I registered.)
You should have been able to choose vi keys or numpad, whatever you prefer - seems I have not tested the Windows version well enough (arrow keys were working, and diagonals on numpad also, but 2468 on numpad did not - on Linux it worked alright). This is fixed in the new version (and there are also some other minor fixes).
Thanks very much for your comments!
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Just died on level 2 after trying to kill a 6 headed chaos hydra with a -3 heads strongly chaotic weapon ... can you say "oops?" :)
Very impressive and (most importantly) fun for 2 days!
What i found slightly annoying was that you have to keep your 1 weapon, to get through mushrooms. But I only played one quick game right now, so maybe that goes away.
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I'm on windows and > didn't work for going down the stairs. I really enjoy it and wish I could continue.
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Maybe a bit illogical, but that's because 'g' is for going down stairs (it is explained in help '?').
I don't know what is the optimal set of weapons, I suspect a -1 weapon would be a useful thing to have even if there were no mushrooms (otherwise you would have to use magical runes against all 1-headed hydras).
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Actually, the "Bloody mushrooms" went away a little when I found out what potions of strength do...
Still, not a big fan of the mushrooms. I think they add little to the game.
Maybe if they did something.
Hmm... they could spread? Cellular automata? The level starts with a 9+ patch somewhere, and that turns into a huge 1 field?
Or the hydras could eat them, having some effect on them.
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Greetings!
I would like to report on my victory in Hydra Nest. Here is commented log file:
> You have won!
Yeah! Like ten attempts it took. Once a promising character was devoured by a floating point error. My guess is sometimes hydras get placed on X or Y coord equal zero.
> Items found and used:
> Rune of Growth (6/19)
> Rune of Cancellation (9/18)
> Rune of Death (5/9)
> Rune of Stunning (8/8)
Lost one due to a typo.
> Rune of Conflict (2/13)
Found these to be difficult to use effectively. Must practice more.
> Scroll of Transmutation (5/16)
Sometimes full info revealed key weaknesses.
> Scroll of the Big Stick (7/15)
> Potion of Power Swipe (2/6)
Love those. I plan to get quad kill someday.
> Potion of Speed (4/14)
> Potion of Knowledge (2/19)
Quickly learned to deal with creatures myself. Used only out of curiosity what would game hint.
> Potion of Strength (4/4)
The slayer looks like a marilith now.
> Potion of Mushroom Seeds (1/4)
> Potion of Life (0/3)
By time I found them ancient hydra was dead. After reading description decided to save all three.
> Items used on the last level:
> Rune of Stunning (1)
Single glance at the Ancient Hydra convinced me I would be oneshotted uness this was employed. Rune of Death was tempting but killing that beast with "conventional" methods gave more satisfaction. :-)
> Weapons at the end:
> amethyst triple staff (x12)
Often used to minimize wounds taken if target Hydra could not be slain with three/four hits or less.
> acid dagger (-1)
Carried mostly to cut mushrooms. Mushroom heads is a cool feature. You will want to have multiple-headed shrooms when doing Power Swipes. How about allowing mushrooms to be crushed barehanded? Tactical value of fungi would not diminish and at the same time opening road to more Hydras becomes matter of dropping a weapon for a moment.
> poisoned triple sword (-12)
> Chaos Trisector (/3)
Found a decimator but considered this to be more useful.
> frozen claymore (-11)
> bone legendary sword (-14)
Some runes of Big Stick were used on this. Boy it is really mean stick!
> Various stats:
All entries should get two spaces like above.
> 611 total wounds (39 HP left)
> 4200 total turns (hydra movements)
> 11 levels solved
> 242 total blade attacks
> 97 hydras killed by your blades
> 10 total divisor attacks
Five employed against Ancient Hydra.
> 10949 heads cut by your attacks
> 213 heads regrown after your attacks
> 22 total blunt weapon attacks
Meh. Me prefers blades.
> 216 total heads stunned
> 224 total stunned heads cut
How could I cut more stunned heads than actually have been stunned?
> 95 mushrooms destroyed
> 180 mushroom heads destroyed
> 18 total attacks in conflict
> 91 total heads cut in conflict
> 120 total heads regrown in conflict
I made two hydras fight themselves and offed winner with a Stun & Death rune combo.
> 4 total hydras killed by Rune of Death
Some larger targets were either stunned with hammer or rune and then dealt with.
> 48 total heads removed by Rune of Death
I found a 49 headed foe. Stunned 48 heads in four hits and stabbed the last.
> 19 heads grown by Rune of Growth
> 10053 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
Over nine thousand belonged to Ancient Hydra.
> 2 max hydras killed at once
Allowed myself to be surrounded by two four-headed monsters. There also happened to be three-headed mushroom in between those. With a Power Swipe of my frozen claymore I made a double kill.
> 2 max runes active at once
Ditto. Probably a conflict and a stun due to typo.
Thank you for a very fun game. Pure tactics rocks!
And oh ... please make game print "press 'G' to descend" when you first walk over stairs.
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> You have won!
Yeah! Like ten attempts it took. Once a promising character was devoured by a floating point error. My guess is sometimes hydras get placed on X or Y coord equal zero.
Strange. I will try to fix that.
> Rune of Conflict (2/13)
Found these to be difficult to use effectively. Must practice more.
I agree, they are rarely useful.
> Potion of Life (0/3)
By time I found them ancient hydra was dead. After reading description decided to save all three.
> Items used on the last level:
> Rune of Stunning (1)
Single glance at the Ancient Hydra convinced me I would be oneshotted uness this was employed. Rune of Death was tempting but killing that beast with "conventional" methods gave more satisfaction. :-)
It would not oneshot you, but yes, it would kill you in several hits (you can make notes and guess the formula used to calculate damage done by a N-headed hydra, and then extrapolate for the Ancient Hydra). Rune of Death does not work on the Ancient Hydra (it would be too cheap, would not it?). I think it gives more satisfaction to win this fight without using any runes, but then, you probably need potions of life, and ignoring the Decimator possibly makes it harder (I have used one Potion of Life and the Decimator).
> amethyst triple staff (x12)
Often used to minimize wounds taken if target Hydra could not be slain with three/four hits or less.
Good that you have found blunt weapons useful :)
> acid dagger (-1)
Carried mostly to cut mushrooms. Mushroom heads is a cool feature. You will want to have multiple-headed shrooms when doing Power Swipes. How about allowing mushrooms to be crushed barehanded? Tactical value of fungi would not diminish and at the same time opening road to more Hydras becomes matter of dropping a weapon for a moment.
Yeah, that was indeed my intention when introducing mushrooms (providing additional heads for Power Swipes). I like the idea about barehand crush :)
> Chaos Trisector (/3)
Found a decimator but considered this to be more useful.
I preferred the Decimator, but that's right, a larger number does not necessarily mean greater usefulness here. But it's fun to use the Potion of Growth and see how the hydra grows lots of heads, which you then cut off with one Decimator strike and one normal strike :)
> 216 total heads stunned
> 224 total stunned heads cut
How could I cut more stunned heads than actually have been stunned?
"Heads stunned" counts only heads stunned by your blunt weapons (there is a separate stat for Rune of Stunning), and I suppose that due to a bug stunned heads cut off by divisors are not counted, but I'll have to check.
Thank you for a very fun game. Pure tactics rocks!
And oh ... please make game print "press 'G' to descend" when you first walk over stairs.
Thanks for your comments! I have also devised some new features in the meantime, so a new version should be out soon :)
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A new version is ready. It improves things mentioned by Ancient, and also adds some new features (two new types of magical items, shields, and missile weapons).
(The floating point error turned out to be caused by placing a line of mushrooms from point A to point A, which caused a division by 0.)
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Downloaded latest version.
Compiles and works fine on mac os x.
Why there are A LOT of scrolls at start? Is it intended?
How can I pick more than 2 weapons?
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Oh, sorry, that was for debugging purposes. I have uploaded the version without that (without changing the number).
To pick more than 2 weapons, you have to use one of the items (whose name is quite strange).
Good to know that it works on Mac Os X :) Is it true that it supports only 8 colors in the console? If yes, then probably it is a bit harder to see some things which are marked by color. (Although it should be still possible (usually), and also should not be a very big problem.)
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Oh, sorry, that was for debugging purposes. I have uploaded the version without that (without changing the number).
That's what I thought :)
To pick more than 2 weapons, you have to use one of the items (whose name is quite strange).
Hm. Ok :)
Good to know that it works on Mac Os X :) Is it true that it supports only 8 colors in the console? If yes, then probably it is a bit harder to see some things which are marked by color. (Although it should be still possible (usually), and also should not be a very big problem.)
There are 16 foreground and 8 background colors.
It seems like you don't use background colors at all, so I think it's totally fine.
I can distinguish all types of hydras by color.
Much bigger problem is keypad. It is impossible to turn off num lock on mac!
It's always numbers for console apps.
And hjkl with diagonals is pain to use.
I added this little hack:
if(ch==0x1b)
{
ch=getch();
switch(ch)
{
case '1':ch=KEY_END;break;
case '2':ch=KEY_DOWN;break;
case '3':ch=KEY_NPAGE;break;
case '4':ch=KEY_LEFT;break;
case '6':ch=KEY_RIGHT;break;
case '7':ch=KEY_HOME;break;
case '8':ch=KEY_UP;break;
case '9':ch=KEY_PPAGE;break;
case '5':ch='.';break;
}
}
Btw there are two links to hydra 2.0 on your page, but 1st one points to old source with debug items.
And link to cons2tcod is broken.
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> You have won!
Effortlessly. :-(
Having giant supplies at start proved to be disastrous to game balance. All challenge was gone. In my second game of HS 2.0 I decided that usage of Strength and Life Potions shall be disallowed.
> Items found and used:
> Rune of Growth (1/11)
> Rune of Cancellation (6/14)
> Rune of Decapitation (2/6)
Hey! I like the new name a lot.
> Rune of Stunning (8/10)
> Rune of Conflict (0/8)
> Rune of Fungification (21/102)
This gives experience? Great!
> Scroll of Transmutation (13/110)
> Scroll of the Big Stick (105/119)
> Potion of Power Swipe (3/11)
> Potion of Weapon Charge (21/104)
Whenever you end a charge with damaging but not weeding out completely a mushroom your character is not moved. See this example:
@....4...2
If you charge with a longsword (-5) the 4 will get killed and 2 damaged for 1
cut. The @ will not move though.
> Potion of Extreme Speed (3/3)
> Potion of Knowledge (0/122)
> Potion of Strength (0/4)
> Potion of Mushroom Seeds (1/4)
> Potion of Life (0/2)
> Items used on the last level:
> Rune of Stunning (5)
> Scroll of Transmutation (4)
> Scroll of the Big Stick (80)
> Potion of Weapon Charge (14)
> Potion of Extreme Speed (2)
> Potion of Mushroom Seeds (1)
Constantly stunning ancient hydra I didn't even take a single wound. To finish it I had to do some running. Two missile hits were needed.
> Weapons at the end:
> obsidian legendary sword (-90, obsidian dagger from Level 8)
> flaming legendary star (M20, golden shuriken from Level 8)
Missiles are really fun addition. They obey the same rules swords do and allow some very creative fighting. Unfortunately when a missile kills hydra standing on any weapon it is gone. I suggest creating some find-free-tile mechanism.
> Various stats:
Next four still need identation. Otherwise it looks neat.
> 599 total wounds (134 HP left)
> 5371 total turns (hydra movements)
> 3415 total seconds of real time
> 12 levels solved
> 326 total blade attacks
> 88 hydras killed by your blades
> 10961 heads cut by your attacks
> 116 heads regrown after your attacks
> 90 total missile attacks
> 8300 total stunned heads cut
> 94 mushrooms destroyed by blades
> 126 mushrooms destroyed by crushing
> 829 mushroom heads destroyed
> 2 total hydras killed by Rune of Decapitation
> 72 total heads removed by Rune of Decapitation (killing)
> 1 heads grown by Rune of Growth
> 23851 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
There is a small problem with this. It doesn't take into account heads recovered by waking up hydra. Another thing worthy placing there is number of heads stunned by Weapon Charge.
> 1 max hydras killed at once with a Weapon Charge
I find shields to be a fine addition. At the moment there is too much helpful things for the hydra slayer. Losing requires some awesome feat of carelessnes. I'll download fixed version.
Another thing changed was representation. I liked former more because now 40-headed hydra has same glyph as 250-headed hydra and ancient one.
The circling asterisk effect is funny but it looks weird when you power swipe with a great mace and stun three hydras but only last one has animation.
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> You have won!
Effortlessly. :-(
Having giant supplies at start proved to be disastrous to game balance. All challenge was gone. In my second game of HS 2.0 I decided that usage of Strength and Life Potions shall be disallowed.
Sure, with almost as many Runes of Fungification as there are hydras to kill, this is not a challenge. As I have said, this was not intentional :)
The new version has some balance changes to the last two levels (and a new special weapon), because I felt they were too easy in 2.0. I have also added Xecutor's hack. Also I have decided that the Potions of Speed had almost no use (their only application, fast escape, was rarely needed), so now they can also be used to get a single free attack.
> Rune of Decapitation (2/6)
Hey! I like the new name a lot.
Thanks! (And there was a Fungification spell in Albion, I always liked this name...)
Whenever you end a charge with damaging but not weeding out completely a mushroom your character is not moved. See this example:
@....4...2
If you charge with a longsword (-5) the 4 will get killed and 2 damaged for 1
cut. The @ will not move though.
This should be fixed now.
Missiles are really fun addition. They obey the same rules swords do and allow some very creative fighting. Unfortunately when a missile kills hydra standing on any weapon it is gone. I suggest creating some find-free-tile mechanism.
Yes, except that they come with a free "charge". Free charge makes it rarer to run into a "not enough heads" or "the number of heads is even no matter what I do" problem, but I think this new "creative fighting" is worth the cost.
There was supposed to be a find-free-tile mechanism (if the missile cannot fall on the cell where the last hydra was hit, it goes a bit further, and if there was no place there, throwing is forbidden). Maybe the missile fell under a mushroom? (Mushrooms with things under them are now marked with a different color.) I have fixed some other things about missiles, and I think the bug is gone now.
There is a small problem with this. It doesn't take into account heads recovered by waking up hydra. Another thing worthy placing there is number of heads stunned by Weapon Charge.
Weapon Charge stunning and awaken stats added.
I find shields to be a fine addition. At the moment there is too much helpful things for the hydra slayer. Losing requires some awesome feat of carelessnes. I'll download fixed version.
I hope you meant this for the version with the hundreds of extra stuff. Without them, I think it is balanced (still with enough place for extra challenges).
Another thing changed was representation. I liked former more because now 40-headed hydra has same glyph as 250-headed hydra and ancient one.
OK, I have changed the representation a bit so that they have different glyphs.
The circling asterisk effect is funny but it looks weird when you power swipe with a great mace and stun three hydras but only last one has animation.
Too lazy to fix that. Thanks again for your comments :)
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Further into keypad on mac.
Actually there are two modes of keypad input.
Numeric mode (default) and application mode.
This:fputs ("\033=", stdout);
will enable application mode.
In application mode following code seems to work:
if(ch==0x1b) {
ch=getch();
if(ch=='O')
{
ch=getch();
switch(ch)
{
case 'q': ch=KEY_END; break;
case 'r': ch=KEY_DOWN; break;
case 's': ch=KEY_NPAGE; break;
case 't': ch=KEY_LEFT; break;
case 'v': ch=KEY_RIGHT; break;
case 'w': ch=KEY_HOME; break;
case 'x': ch=KEY_UP; break;
case 'y': ch=KEY_PPAGE; break;
case 'u': ch='.'; break;
}
}
}
But I don't know how it will behave on non-mac terminals :(
I enabled 'strict vt100 keypad' option in terminal for this to work.
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1 flaming dagger -1
2* Silver Trisector /3
3 silver two-handed sword-10
## 4 bronze longsword -5
.. 2 5 sapphire flail S8
..53#2.
## # ..E....
. ##5 ....$.# LV 7 HP 70/84
#.# #.. 3..?..
#... #.. .1...
#...##.4#..5.. 4-skeletal +5
##...P...!..4 3-brown +8
#.......B..# 11-golden +6
#......... 14-swamp +2
#......@.# 30-storm +8
#........33# 25-ice +0
#....24245...
..314415.....#?.
#. U. ....>.. ##
#. .....!3..
........###
##########
That's what I call 'Warm welcome!' :)
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Yey!
You have won!
Items found and used:
Rune of Growth (16/17)
Rune of Cancellation (11/15)
Rune of Decapitation (5/9)
Rune of Stunning (9/9)
Rune of Conflict (2/10)
Rune of Fungification (1/2)
Scroll of Transmutation (4/16)
Scroll of the Big Stick (8/15)
Potion of Power Swipe (2/10)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/2)
Potion of Extreme Speed (0/8)
Potion of Knowledge (4/12)
Potion of Strength (4/4)
Potion of Mushroom Seeds (0/9)
Potion of Life (0/2)
Items used on the last level:
Rune of Cancellation (3)
Rune of Stunning (4)
Weapons at the end:
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 10)
Storm Decimator (/10, from Level 9)
acid longsword (-5, silver longsword from Level 3)
flaming two-handed sword (-10, storm bastard sword from Level 7)
ruby triple staff (S12, from Level 9)
Bone Eradicator (R2, from Level 12)
Various stats:
764 total wounds (110 HP left)
4897 total turns (hydra movements)
11231 total seconds of real time
12 levels solved
373 total blade attacks
104 hydras killed by your blades
25 total divisor attacks
102061 heads cut by your attacks
370 heads regrown after your attacks
12 total blunt weapon attacks and shield bashes
138 total heads stunned
4 total missile attacks
3 total targets hit by your missiles
99577 total stunned heads cut
236 mushrooms destroyed by blades
641 mushroom heads destroyed
18 total attacks in conflict
1 total hydras killed in conflict
88 total heads cut in conflict
73 total heads regrown in conflict
5 total hydras killed by Rune of Decapitation
311 total heads removed by Rune of Decapitation (killing)
110515 total heads awakened after stunning
4 total hydras awakened after stunning (part or total)
93 heads grown by Rune of Growth
210265 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
2 max runes active at once
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Congrats! You seem to have used a very different set of weapons than me. That's good, it means that the game can be won using different strategies. (Although you had to use up more runes.) Here is my log file:
You have won!
Items found and used:
Rune of Growth (9/21)
Rune of Cancellation (6/20)
Rune of Decapitation (0/10)
Rune of Stunning (2/5)
Rune of Conflict (0/6)
Rune of Fungification (2/2)
Scroll of Transmutation (0/12)
Scroll of the Big Stick (3/12)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/10)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/3)
Potion of Extreme Speed (3/9)
Potion of Knowledge (1/11)
Potion of Strength (4/4)
Potion of Mushroom Seeds (0/12)
Potion of Life (0/1)
Items used on the last level:
Rune of Stunning (1)
Potion of Extreme Speed (1)
Weapons at the end:
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 8)
acid heptagram (M7, acid shuriken from Level 3)
poisoned triple sword (-12, from Level 10)
Poisoned Decimator (/10, from Level 10)
golden small shield (P4, from Level 6)
silver claymore (-11, from Level 9)
Various stats:
978 total wounds (4 HP left)
4575 total turns (hydra movements)
1980 total seconds of real time
12 levels solved
287 total blade attacks
109 hydras killed by your blades
19 total divisor attacks
1 total eradicator attacks
103325 heads cut by your attacks
695 heads regrown after your attacks
3 total blunt weapon attacks and shield bashes
12 total heads stunned
38 total missile attacks
34 total targets hit by your missiles
115 total stunned heads cut [apparently not all are counted]
164 mushrooms destroyed by blades
4 mushrooms destroyed by crushing
479 mushroom heads destroyed
63 heads grown by Rune of Growth
154 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
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A new version of Hydra Slayer (http://"http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php") has been released!
This version includes an option for those who have slain the boss to go further into the dungeon for extra challenge (go as deep as you can). Also some new features and improvements are added.
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It is nice to see the game development still going strong. I made a RogueBasin page for Hydra Slayer:
http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Hydra_Slayer
Please tell me how you like it.
Haven't had time to play newest version yet but surely will get back when I decapitate the big bad next time.
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Looks great, thanks!
Contrary to normal roguelikes which can be extended infinitely (a fantasy roguelike that has no bows or no magic or no horseback riding usually feels incomplete), Hydra Slayer has quite restricted theme, and there is no reason to add stuff which does not fit well into this theme (almost all items found in HS would not make that much sense in another game). For that reason, I think it is quite complete. Still, I do manage to find new ideas for features of Hydra Nest sometimes. (One thing that is missing is save feature, its lack was acceptable in the 2DRL version, but now that it has grown, it becomes more and more of a nuisance. Probably the next version will have this, but I want also some other ideas :)
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Still no save feature, but I have found a nasty bug. Version 3.1 fixes it.
EDIT: Version 3.2 contains save feature and some minor bugfixes.
EDIT: Uploaded Version 3.2 again (it contained some debug output which made playing less comfortable).
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The ancient hydra has perished!
I downloaded version with debug stuff printed to stderr. That annoyed me quite a lot until I read code, got enlightened and routed everything to /dev/null. Whoever designed this device is a genius. So useful for everyday tasks ... But enough complaining, game features await to be commented on!
BEWARE! SPOILERS AHEAD!
.
.
.
.
I welcome new vampire hydras with joy. No weapon element is completely useless against them but they are difficult to beat without a shield. Ambidextrous attacks help here a lot.
You have won and escaped!
Items found and used:
Rune of Growth (6/8)
Rune of Cancellation (9/16)
Rune of Decapitation (4/9)
Rune of Stunning (3/3)
Rune of Conflict (0/4)
Rune of Fungification (2/3)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (1/3)
Scroll of Transmutation (10/15)
Scroll of the Big Stick (15/22)
Scroll of Reduction (2/2)
Potion of Power Swipe (6/7)
Potion of Weapon Charge (3/3)
Potion of Extreme Speed (4/8)
Potion of Knowledge (1/8)
Potion of Power Juice (4/4)
Potion of Mushroom Seeds (2/9)
Potion of Ambidexterity (2/4)
Potion of Life (0/1)
I found out Fungification + Fungal Necromancy create really cheesy combo. I made a 642-headed zombie. ^_^ It ate more enemy heads than it was worth. My feelings about reduction are mixed bag. Must test those runes more. Is rune application outcome deterministic or random?
Items used on the last level:
Last level now really mean last one. How about logging ancient hydra level instead? That was probably whole point of this feature.
Weapons at the end:
golden epic sword (-17, golden two-handed sword from Level 5)
skeletal medium shield (P6, skeletal spiked buckler from Level 7)
golden shuriken (M4, from Level 3)
storm triple sword (-12, from Level 11)
bronze triple sword (-12, bone triple sword from Level 10)
Flaming Decimator (/10, Storm Decimator from Level 9)
I ignore eradicator unless boss is near a square root. For early and mid game blunt weapons are quite useful but later divisors replace them.
Various stats:
938 total wounds (36 HP left)
5411 total turns (hydra movements)
6716 total seconds of real time
12 levels solved
3 times loaded a saved game
277 total blade attacks
110 beasts killed by your blades
41 total divisor attacks
102563 heads cut by your attacks
618 heads regrown after your attacks
10 total blunt weapon attacks and shield bashes
37 total heads stunned
63 total missile attacks
44 total targets hit by your missiles
102 total stunned heads cut
3 total ambidextrous hits
8 single attacks used in ambidextrous hits
95 total mushroom heads converted to zombie heads
52 heads regrown by vampire hydras while attacking
80 mushrooms destroyed by blades
58 mushrooms destroyed by crushing
346 mushroom heads destroyed
4 total beasts killed by Rune of Decapitation
28 total heads removed by Rune of Decapitation (killing)
59 total heads stunned by Rune of Charge
10 total heads awakened after stunning
4 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
8 heads grown by Rune of Growth
41 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
2 max beasts killed at once with a Power Swipe
2 max hydras killed at once with a missile
Ettins are cool as well but unfortunately a bit buggy. They ignore missile weapons but also dodge weapon charges. I made an experiment:
@.....8.....2..###
That '2' here is an ettin. With a sword (-10) I charge at 8-fire hydra and CRRASSHH! Oooopsss. Fortunately program made an emergency save for me. Great! But wait a moment ... why are my first two items replaced with a dagger and machete? Hmmm ... this might be a good way to kill ettins in future.
1 Drop first two tools.
2 Save and reload.
3. Kill ettin with recently summoned machete. :-P
4. Pick up your main battle gear.
Oh it is nice that ettins can be left alone.
About ambidexterity:
Divisor attacks are not executed even when hydra is eligible for being cut with one. When you select only divisors this just wastes a turn. I know that I can use my trisector by selecting no hands and making sure the asterisk is next to arm wielding the divisor. If this is intentional I vote for axing this feature. Please allow players to make neat combos. It will increase satisfaction from hydra slaying.
Another thing with ambidexterity is you need to watch out for selected empty hands. Sometimes a hydra may catch player with a hand free because he was crushing mushrooms. He may forget to disable empty slot and cause game to die.
I have a saved slayer at level 27 but he has been robbed twice by dagger+machete bug. On the other hand (he has got eight now) in his backpack there still is a second potion of life to be quaffed.
Fine game Hydra Slayer is. I will be waiting for next patch.
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I found out Fungification + Fungal Necromancy create really cheesy combo. I made a 642-headed zombie. ^_^ It ate more enemy heads than it was worth.
There is another Necromancy combo which is even better, I think.
My feelings about reduction are mixed bag. Must test those runes more. Is rune application outcome deterministic or random?
Yes, it is deterministic.
Items used on the last level:
Last level now really mean last one. How about logging ancient hydra level instead? That was probably whole point of this feature.
Indeed, it would make more sense that way. Fixed.
golden epic sword (-17, golden two-handed sword from Level 5)
This looks suspicious, there should be no two-handed swords on Level 5.
For early and mid game blunt weapons are quite useful but later divisors replace them.
I have upped blunt weapons found on later levels to be (a bit) bigger. (Also now you have a small chance to find very good stuff on levels below 12. You can no longer be sure that there is no point in saving your Big Sticks for later because you will not find anything bigger anyway ;) )
Ettins are cool as well but unfortunately a bit buggy. They ignore missile weapons but also dodge weapon charges. I made an experiment:
@.....8.....2..###
That '2' here is an ettin. With a sword (-10) I charge at 8-fire hydra and CRRASSHH! Oooopsss.
Oh, the ettin case was considered correctly when checking the line attack, but not when executing it. Fixed.
Fortunately program made an emergency save for me. Great! But wait a moment ... why are my first two items replaced with a dagger and machete? Hmmm ... this might be a good way to kill ettins in future.
Sorry, apparently I have been only trying reloading while still possessing the original weapons. (And since they were regenerated from the same seed, their materials did not change either.) Fixed.
About ambidexterity:
Divisor attacks are not executed even when hydra is eligible for being cut with one. When you select only divisors this just wastes a turn. I know that I can use my trisector by selecting no hands and making sure the asterisk is next to arm wielding the divisor. If this is intentional I vote for axing this feature. Please allow players to make neat combos. It will increase satisfaction from hydra slaying.
I thought that divisor attacks should not be allowed in ambi because it was not obvious which one should be executed first. But indeed, executing division first is logical and allows for neat combos. So this works now.
Another thing with ambidexterity is you need to watch out for selected empty hands. Sometimes a hydra may catch player with a hand free because he was crushing mushrooms. He may forget to disable empty slot and cause game to die.
This is fixed. Also the interface used to select a set of weapons hase been changed, so that the starred weapon will always be selected (previously you could select one for ambi and star another one, which led to confusion).
Fine game Hydra Slayer is. I will be waiting for next patch.
Version 3.3 is available. Thanks a lot!
EDIT: Version 3.3 allowed ambidextrous combinations of division and subtraction which should not be allowed (not enough heads). Version 3.4 fixes this. Also fungification no longer leaves a dead body available for necromancy (of course you can fungify one hydra and raise another one nearby).
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One thing managed to escape my memory when I was writing above post. In Hydra Nest I found a Null Sector! This item sparked my interest but being a hobby programmer I knew that if you didn't consider the case using it would surely crash the game (and replace my stuff with a machete and a dagger). On the other hand you provided a neat name for the divisor so that means you probably thought about it. With a bit of fear I approached a mushroom and attacked. Apparently grepping game code seemed too much work for me. Man ... the message made my day. :-D
This gave me a weird idea. What if you could use the Null Sector to instantly kill ancient hydra but sacrificing your sanity in the process? A partial victory akin to nuking both the Cyberdemon and yourself in DoomRL.
For necromancy there is option of deliberately letting hydras grow with runes conflict (eg. two same-element hydras fighting each other) before fungifying them but it seems like an exploit to me. Unless there is some limit stating how many heads a hydra can accumulate.
I have upped blunt weapons found on later levels to be (a bit) bigger. (Also now you have a small chance to find very good stuff on levels below 12. You can no longer be sure that there is no point in saving your Big Sticks for later because you will not find anything bigger anyway ;) )
Great news! Adding more meaningful tactical decisions is always good.
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:) The Null Sector was intended just as a joke item, for those who have already won (it appears below the AH level), without any intention of usefulness (well you could also use Big Stick on it, but still there is no reason for that).
There are never two same-element hydras on one level. And when you have two different hydras, they cannot grow indefinitely, because ultimately one of them will be big enough to defeat the other one. In the newer versions there is a growth limit (so that we don't run into overflow), but I think it cannot be reached that way. This winner will be probably very big and you can use fungification + necromancy to turn in into your friend, but since it cannot go to the next floor anyway, the most you can do with it is killing all remaining hydras on the level quite easily. I think pulling this off could be worth it, but not enough to consider it an exploit. (BTW, I think the method of producing giant hydra zombies I know is better than this.)
EDIT: OK, the problem with what I wrote is that the loser is usually not actually defeated, just dwarfed below the threshold of the winner. And the loser still tries to attack the winner, making it grow even bigger. Yes, probably I could try fixing that, but I am not sure how (allow hydras to attack with partial force? this seems to be the best idea)
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OK, Version 3.5 is out, with the following modifications:
* conflict has been nerfed (hydras are now allowed to attack other beasts even if they have more power than required to kill; vampire hydras are resistant)
* shields now help against ettins if the colors match; also Knowledge now correctly displays damage for ettins
* some other minor modifications (messages improved)
I had no time to test it thoroughly, but should be OK.
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After heavy playtesting (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydralog.txt) (warning: link contains heavy spoilers), version 4.0 is out (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php), with the following improvements:
- fixed blunt weapons not working with Power Swipes
- added extra stats (about special enemies and missile attacks; I think it is a very good style/extra challenge to use your missiles either to damage/kill one hydra, or to kill several of them without the help of mushrooms, so there are stats for that now)
- zombie now longer has x2 on attacks of its own color, which led to an exploit
- no longer forgets where the two first weapons come from after save
- full info now displays all weapons in sight, and some information about special enemies
- fixed reduction (a bit more useful, displays stats of the new weapon, no longer disappears after cancel)
- improved debug mode (creates more items for testing, allows to automatically test the quality of a weapon set)
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Greetings again. I advise not to look at my logfile ... it is SPOILER heavy!
As for your log: I am impressed by your power swipe score! The best I got was four. Weapon charge also seems like it took quite a lot of effort to arrange.
That collapsed hydra makes me a bit curious ... need to find out what is the amount of head the beast needs to accumulate in order to get die instantly.
Game saved.
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (12/12)
Rune of Decapitation (8/14)
Rune of Cancellation (20/22)
Rune of Growth (20/27)
Rune of Conflict (12/12)
Rune of Fungification (8/8)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (6/6)
Scroll of Transmutation (16/21)
Scroll of the Big Stick (29/36)
Scroll of Reduction (3/9)
Potion of Power Swipe (5/7)
Potion of Weapon Charge (7/7)
Potion of Extreme Speed (11/11)
Potion of Knowledge (8/11)
Potion of Power Juice (6/6)
Potion of Mushroom Seeds (11/12)
Potion of Ambidexterity (9/9)
Potion of Life (0/2)
Now at 38th level with 12HP left. Good thing is I finally learned to use conflict effectively. When combined with extreme speed you can herd multiheaders together and curse some with conflict. Very helpful.
Need to quaff life potion now but with ~800 HP I should be all-right for quite a long time. Who knows when this character bites the bullet. Probably I will move hydra.sav somewhere else to run some other slayers in near future. It is tempting to test new way of dispatching ancient beast. For that and another try of creating a really giant zombie eradicator is needed but this character left it at twelfth floor.
Vampire hydras are too rare below AH level for my taste. Challenge factor would get a healthy boost by their presence. Right now it is a no-brainer to use stunning + decapitate on them.
Items used on the ancient hydra level:
Rune of Stunning (1)
Scroll of the Big Stick (1)
I thought about logging all messages during ancient hydra level. Probably would be more interesting but may be not worth the effort require to code it.
Weapons at the end:
Obsidian Divisor (/5, obtained by reduction, from Level 28)
Obsidian Trisector (/3, obtained by reduction, brought from home)
Obsidian Bisector (/2, obtained by reduction, brought from home)
storm triple sword (-12, from Level 35)
poisoned epic sword (-13, from Level 36)
obsidian three-handed sword (-15, obsidian dagger from Level 8)
flaming epic sword (-16, acid three-handed sword from Level 17)
golden large shield (P7, from Level 31)
Baah. Obtained by reduction and brought from home means I must have had some runes of reduction at home, right? Seriously that is another artifact of game loading. First two items are treated as if they have been brought from home. Fortunately you fixed it.
Have a look at my stuff. Obsidian + reduction makes for a cheesy combo. Soon I will have enough big sticks to replace one of the swords by obsidian variant.
Various stats:
4830 total wounds (12 HP left)
17179 total turns (hydra movements)
22471 total seconds of real time
37 levels solved
1 times loaded a saved game
873 total blade attacks
330 beasts killed by your blades
435 total divisor attacks
137447 heads cut by your attacks
1725 heads regrown after your attacks
10 total blunt weapon attacks and shield bashes
99 total heads stunned
49 total missile attacks
32 total hydras hit by your missiles
3064 total stunned heads cut
17 total ambidextrous hits
52 single attacks used in ambidextrous hits
1578 total mushroom heads converted to zombie heads
72 mushrooms destroyed by blades
344 mushrooms destroyed by crushing
1232 mushroom heads destroyed
1608 total attacks in conflict
30 total beasts killed in conflict
13244 total heads cut in conflict
8042 total heads regrown in conflict
8 total beasts killed by Rune of Decapitation
1132 total heads removed by Rune of Decapitation (killing)
990 total heads stunned by Rune of Charge
122 total heads awakened after stunning
6 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
87 heads grown by Rune of Growth
3115 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
2 max runes active at once
2 max beasts killed at once with a Power Swipe
2 max hydras killed at once with a missile
I would add most hydra heads cut with a single ambidexterous attack. 360 was my high score. 360 /5 /3 /2 -12 = dead hydra. As you see no vampire head growth is listed. This is because I have exterminated them with extreme prejudice but encountered only a few. If memory does not fool me I could count them all on a single hand. MaxHP would also be useful additions if 4.0 does not provide it already.
Single ambidextrous hits seems to count attacks against hydras unaffected by the potion. It would explain why with only nine potions whole game I managed to accumulate 52 single attacks. IMO when you stun a hydra using ambidexterity and fight another hydra meanwhile it should not count.
Ettins deep down carried some really neat tools. Among them was a five-handed sword and a six-handed sword. Oh, now I remembered. Some of new names with longer element types exceed status area space and corrupt the map. Staff of misfortune is among them when combined with sapphire. Same for poisoned three-handed sword. That should be easy for you to fix.
I left both giant swords where they were. With my current setup I can effectively fight and finish off last bunch of heads quite easily. With really large pointy sticks it would be easy to decrease hydra size but very difficut to kill completely so I opted to keep smaller weapons. Such large tools are rather impractical without a missile weapon to finish off.
And oh ... subject line should read 4.0 now.
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curses hint of the day: You'll want to use erase() rather than clear() to clear the screen without repainting. Everything seemed to work fine for me when I just string-replaced clear() with erase() in hydra.cpp. This way there won't be a flickery redraw every time the player presses a key :)
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That collapsed hydra makes me a bit curious ... need to find out what is the amount of head the beast needs to accumulate in order to get die instantly.
Also finding a equipment set which allows to obtain this as cheaply as possible is a nice mathematical puzzle, I think. (It took me about 200 HP, could be less by using better shields and more Potions of Extreme Speed)
Need to quaff life potion now but with ~800 HP I should be all-right for quite a long time. Who knows when this character bites the bullet. Probably I will move hydra.sav somewhere else to run some other slayers in near future. It is tempting to test new way of dispatching ancient beast. For that and another try of creating a really giant zombie eradicator is needed but this character left it at twelfth floor.
There is a command line option to change the savefile name. (Trying to run with a parameter it does not understand should display command line options) My experiments with giant zombies used Decimator, not sure which one is better (Eradicator would be better if the algorithm used by magic on the way had not its limits)
Vampire hydras are too rare below AH level for my taste. Challenge factor would get a healthy boost by their presence. Right now it is a no-brainer to use stunning + decapitate on them.
I will add a stat calculating the number of uses of decapitation/fungification on vampires, so you could try to keep it at 0 if you want.
Have a look at my stuff. Obsidian + reduction makes for a cheesy combo. Soon I will have enough big sticks to replace one of the swords by obsidian variant
Thanks for reminding me that it is possible to obtain obsidian divisors :) But are they indeed more helpful than normal ones? They are used to quickly reduce monsters with lots of heads, and that e.g. +6 does not help the hydra that much. (Actually, I think that it might help you. If you cannot use your /5, it is possible that using your /3 or /2 and growing that 6 heads could make you able to use /5 in the next turn.)
I would add most hydra heads cut with a single ambidexterous attack. 360 was my high score. 360 /5 /3 /2 -12 = dead hydra. As you see no vampire head growth is listed. This is because I have exterminated them with extreme prejudice but encountered only a few. If memory does not fool me I could count them all on a single hand. MaxHP would also be useful additions if 4.0 does not provide it already.
Good ideas! (I think you mean max hydra killed by a single attack, otherwise you could easily get more) Currently there is a 3/20 chance of a vampire hydra per level... yeah, that's too low. I will raise to 5/20.
Single ambidextrous hits seems to count attacks against hydras unaffected by the potion. It would explain why with only nine potions whole game I managed to accumulate 52 single attacks. IMO when you stun a hydra using ambidexterity and fight another hydra meanwhile it should not count.
That's strange, I will check that.
Ettins deep down carried some really neat tools. Among them was a five-handed sword and a six-handed sword. Oh, now I remembered. Some of new names with longer element types exceed status area space and corrupt the map. Staff of misfortune is among them when combined with sapphire. Same for poisoned three-handed sword. That should be easy for you to fix.
OK
curses hint of the day: You'll want to use erase() rather than clear() to clear the screen without repainting. Everything seemed to work fine for me when I just string-replaced clear() with erase() in hydra.cpp. This way there won't be a flickery redraw every time the player presses a key :)
Thanks! I was wondering why it was flickering...
I have found a weird bug in 4.0 (you lose 16 max HP when using Necromancy), so I will release a fix soon.
EDIT: Version 4.1 released. I could not find any bug regarding counting ambidextrous single hits, maybe you misunderstood what it means? (It means that 17 of your attacks used multiple weapons, and they were composed of 52 single weapon attacks)
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EDIT: Version 4.1 released. I could not find any bug regarding counting ambidextrous single hits, maybe you misunderstood what it means? (It means that 17 of your attacks used multiple weapons, and they were composed of 52 single weapon attacks)
You are right. I should read more code before posting. I thought it counted attacks with only a single weapon.
Obsidian divisor has another virtue. There is no hydra type it will grow instead of reducing. 100-headed swamp hydra approaches but you have a poisoned bisector and a trisector? You need to use one transmutation scroll if you wish to greet the monster with halving attack. With obsidian stuff you save scrolls for another day.
Yes, agreed about biggest hydra killed with ambidexterity.
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A small update in version 4.2 - each hydra color (except the ancient one) is now susceptible (that is, +0) to one normal weapon color. To make this balanced and interesting and make sense, one color has been renamed (imagine the were-hydra yourself) and the whole cycle has been cunningly rearranged. This should make it a bit more interesting, although easier, because no counterfeature which makes the game harder has been added.
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Hi there. Congratulations for your game, even though I'm no rl expert I've enjoying this game.
I'm posting to report a seg fault that I got (I don't have the time to reproduce it atm, but I'll try to do it asap).
Against a single hydra (21 golden) I attacked first with a S11 ruby great flail, used a potion of power swipe and attacked again with the flail.
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Meanwhile I just won it for the first time (but I had to use one potion of life).
This was the first time I managed to successfully use conflict as well. Pretty cool :)
Char dump:
http://pastebin.com/5QFFwMDA
That eradicator replaced a trisector after I killed the ancient hydra.
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Thanks for a bug report, and congratulations! Now try winning with less items used up... :)
If you can reproduce the bug, please do it, I have no idea currently what could cause it (although maybe I will find something after looking at source). (Also the real time looks weird, do you have any ideas what could cause that?)
I plan to release version 5.0 soon (not much changes, just make the Potion of Ambidexterity more interesting; not many ideas about a feature which makes the game a bit harder as a counterbalance, although stunning times will be reduced for some items).
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Version 5.0 is ready (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php)! Maybe there are no big modifications, but here is what is changed since 4.2:
- New names for oversized weapons and shields (in 4.3)
- Decapitation works on mushrooms now (in 4.4)
- A picture on the website
- Ambidexterity is now more interesting - it works until moved, not against a single hydra. Also it now works with the Eradicator, with scrolls, and against mushrooms.
- As a counterbalance, stuntime is reduced for shields and weaker materials, hydras very deep in the dungeon have
better regeneration, and the official part has 1 potion of ambidexterity less on average - Reduction renamed to reforging
- An additional potion of power juice appears very deep in the dungeon, for those who can reach it (in 4.2 I have got there before having to use the last Potion of Life, not sure whether the balance is the same in 5.0)
- Some new stats (wounds from the Ancient Hydra and Ettins, quantity of potions of power juice never used)
- Ettins now have a special picture in the tile version
- Some bugfixes (4.3: wrong results of Potion of Knowledge, hydras losing turns while recovering from a partial stun, asking for saving after help; 5.0: bug with stunning and PowerSwipe found by JLC above, real time recorded incorrectly for emergency saves)
I wonder what are your feelings about the hardness of the official part (before winning)? From what I have read, it seems to be difficult for some players, and easy for others... probably that's how it should be...
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Returning to game from the inventory was a bit slow for me with 4.4 and it seems fine now :)
About further changes (I'm not that experienced with roguelikes, but I played some - mostly dungeon crawl - and since I really like this one I figured I could come up with some ideas. Feel free to bash me if they're stupid):
- (Random thought) Would checking if a player has a -1 weapon when going into the next level be a good or bad feature? I felt the need to drop mine - mostly in the first levels - to allow me to use a best combination of weapons several times already.
- I always liked to have a ranking in roguelikes. Something like a top10 of all the scores would be nice and I really miss it.
- Have you considered implementing different difficulty modes? I found out this game to be an excellent rl game not only for players without many time to finish a game but also for people getting into the roguelike world. And so I figure it would be cool to keep this difficulty for new players and then have an harder one for more experienced ones (I know it is possible to dig deeper than 12th level). Nothing fancy, but restricting potion use (life, power juice and knowledge for example), diminishing the starting HP and maybe increase hydra heads would make it more changeling.
- I think you should probably write hydraslayer.txt somewhere in /home/user/.hydraslayer/ or something. I found myself leaving these files in work directories a few times :P
PS: I submitted a package to the arch linux aur repository so that it is easier for arch users to install/update the game. Hope you don't mind.
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=41803
Thank you again.
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Whew. I barely managed to download ver 4.4 but not to extract and now there is 5.0. You are developing this too fast. :-P
Thank you JLC. I happen to have Arch Linux as my OS. :-D
Pre-AH levels are moderately difficult but on 11th level heal factor is too high on my opinion. I die only by being careless (not watching HP) or greedy (conserving too much stuff). Post-AH it is a slow war of attrition.
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Returning to game from the inventory was a bit slow for me with 4.4 and it seems fine now :)
I don't know, I think I have not changed anything here...
- (Random thought) Would checking if a player has a -1 weapon when going into the next level be a good or bad feature? I felt the need to drop mine - mostly in the first levels - to allow me to use a best combination of weapons several times already.
So you want to always have a -1 weapon when entering a new level, but temporarily switch it to another one, and you want the game to warn you if you have forgotten your dagger? I think keeping the dagger is a part of strategy, and the game should not suggest what the strategy should be (and it is not the only reasonable strategy - I also prefer to keep the dagger myself, but there are other ways to deal with mushrooms and small hydras).
- I always liked to have a ranking in roguelikes. Something like a top10 of all the scores would be nice and I really miss it.
- Have you considered implementing different difficulty modes? I found out this game to be an excellent rl game not only for players without many time to finish a game but also for people getting into the roguelike world. And so I figure it would be cool to keep this difficulty for new players and then have an harder one for more experienced ones (I know it is possible to dig deeper than 12th level). Nothing fancy, but restricting potion use (life, power juice and knowledge for example), diminishing the starting HP and maybe increase hydra heads would make it more changeling.
Roguelikes usually have top 100, not top 10. :) I could think about it. This would require some scoring system. What would be the best way to score your games? Maybe one scoreboard which lists max number of enemies defeated (for beginners, this tracks your progress on your way to winning, and for experts, this essentially tracks your best depth) and another one which rewards those who have won the official part most cheaply? Another thing I think would be useful is some global achievement table, which acknowledge if the player has ever e.g. won, won without using Life, defeated AH without using runes/scrolls/potions, slain 11 hydras with a single missile throw, etc.
Currently, the player is invited to invent his own challenges. I think the achievement table idea mentioned in the previous answer would help those who prefer the challenges to be given and rewarded by the game itself.
- I think you should probably write hydraslayer.txt somewhere in /home/user/.hydraslayer/ or something. I found myself leaving these files in work directories a few times :P
I think you mean hydra.sav and hydralog.txt files. OK, I think the best way would be to add a compiler option for this.
PS: I submitted a package to the arch linux aur repository so that it is easier for arch users to install/update the game. Hope you don't mind.
Sure, thanks!
Whew. I barely managed to download ver 4.4 but not to extract and now there is 5.0. You are developing this too fast. :-P
:) I think I will need to think a bit to design a good score/achievement system before releasing the next version. :)
Pre-AH levels are moderately difficult but on 11th level heal factor is too high on my opinion. I die only by being careless (not watching HP) or greedy (conserving too much stuff). Post-AH it is a slow war of attrition.
The intention of level 11 (which was introduced before post-AH levels) was to let the player have some fun that levels 1-10 and 12 do not provide (multiple 3-digit hydras so you need to use divisors heavily), and to make sure that he enters the boss level with full health. But agreed, I think it is possible to reduce the heal factor while still satisfying the second goal (for sufficiently good players). I will try to do that :) Thanks.
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I think keeping the dagger is a part of strategy, and the game should not suggest what the strategy should be (and it is not the only reasonable strategy - I also prefer to keep the dagger myself, but there are other ways to deal with mushrooms and small hydras).
You're right. Should have given that idea a second thought :-[
What would be the best way to score your games? Maybe one scoreboard which lists max number of enemies defeated (for beginners, this tracks your progress on your way to winning, and for experts, this essentially tracks your best depth) and another one which rewards those who have won the official part most cheaply?
I like the idea but I'm not the right person to give input here. Never really dug into score calcs. Damage taken would probably be a good stat as well though. You'll have to ask for user names when starting a game. Otherwise the ranking will be almost useless in computers with multiple users.
Another thing I think would be useful is some global achievement table, which acknowledge if the player has ever e.g. won, won without using Life, defeated AH without using runes/scrolls/potions, slain 11 hydras with a single missile throw, etc.
Like it.
I think you mean hydra.sav and hydralog.txt files. OK, I think the best way would be to add a compiler option for this.
I did.
Pre-AH levels are moderately difficult but on 11th level heal factor is too high on my opinion. I die only by being careless (not watching HP) or greedy (conserving too much stuff). Post-AH it is a slow war of attrition.
+1. It's too easy to heal on level 11. One of the hydras was all I needed. But I still think this level should be enough to completely heal.
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OK, new version is out! It includes the Hall of Fame and a (short) achievement list, reduces the healing for Level 11 (and 13+), and fixes a minor bug with stunning mushrooms.
JLC, I have not changed the location of the files used in the game itself, but I have added some parameters - so I think this could be done by making /usr/bin/hydraslayer run some script similar to the following instead of the executable itself:
mkdir -p ~/.hydraslayer
/usr/lib/hydraslayer/hydraslayer -f ~/.hydraslayer/hydra.sav -t ~/.hydraslayer/hydralog.txt -g /usr/lib/hydraslayer/hydrascore.sav $*
(I also think the package info should rather say that Hydra Slayer is influenced by mathematical puzzles, not by MathRL - I suppose MathRL is not so well known)
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Ty for the new version :)
I changed the description of the package as you asked.
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Since I have seen some comments that the post-AH part of game was quite boring, I have created a new version (7.0), which should solve this problem. There are now two victory conditions, so you get a chance to win the "complete" game after winning the original one. The complete game is now more varied than in the previous versions - you get hydras of varying sizes, some special equipment, and new shapes of dungeon levels - to be consistent with the theme, some of them are based on mathematics, and some even change the topology of the dungeon in weird ways. The balance of the complete game is based on my playtesting, so you should win (without using the second Potion of Life) if you are better than me (hopefully, as some rebalancing has took place while playtesting), and lose if you are not good enough.
Additionally, the stats have been redesigned (includes stats for individual weapons; also logs now include the character name), and there are some minor changes and bugfixes. (Unfortunately the file format used for saved games and scoreboards is incompatible with the previous versions.)
JLC: I suggest using another file name (hydrascores.sav) for the global installation, since the format has been changed (also the script I suggested used a global scoreboard)
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More playtesting has revealed some bugs with Ambidexterity (heads were not regrown or were regrown stunned, was not cancelled after using Reforging) and with stun animation (wrong placement on special topologies, interference with the tile version). This has been fixed in version 7.1. Also the log file now includes the whole history of weapons you have been using.
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Sorry, I'm not sure I understood what you asked me for.
Change hydra.sav to hydraslayer.sav and and place it in /usr/share/hydraslayer/ instead of /home/jlc/.config/hydraslayer?
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First, change hydrascore.sav (which is the file containing the scoreboard) to hydrascores.sav. This is because the format of this file has changed. (The savefile hydra.sav should not need any changes.)
Second, I think placing it in /usr/share/hydraslayer/ instead of /home/jlc/.config/hydraslayer would be a good idea. The purpose of this is to have a shared scoreboard for all users on a given system. (The savefile hydra.sav is for a single player, so should be in the home directory.)
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ty
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Somehow I get no feedback about major modifications in new versions (scoreboard in 6.0 and the second part of the game in 7.0), I wonder whether it is hard and everybody tries to win before submitting, or it got boring somehow... Anyway, version 7.2 is out. Version 7.2 introduces a new special type of hydra and 5 new special weapons, which can be randomly found (or not) during the second part of the game, and some of them are quite interesting. Also some bugfixes:
- fixed potion of knowledge not working correctly on vampires hydras (it did only for blade attacks)
- fixed potion of knowledge not always working correctly with Eradicator
- minor fixes with messages and names
- no longer marks other games as the current game in the Hall of Game
- no longer hangs while generating a level on Windows (Windows MINGW uses a bad RNG...)
I have won without using Potions of Life, and without using some of special weapons (some of them did not appear correctly due to a bug), so it is winnable.
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how do you compile the game for mac?
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I have no access to a Mac, so I suppose I cannot help you, sorry. But Xecutor did not say he had to do anything special (unless the old version compiled fine and there are problems with the new one). I know that you should have "make", C++ and libcurses (dev version) installed, and then running "make" in the directory containing the extracted files should compile it.
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Version 8.0 is out!
As a try to increase the replayability, there are now four races to choose from: Humans (as in original Hydra Slayer), Elf (Power Swipe for free), Naga (focus on ambidexterity), Troll (cannot carry items as other races can, but can carry weapons and shields).
The new races seem to have less rich gameplay than Humans, but they require very different tactics, so they should be interesting. I have won with a Naga and almost won with a Troll (probably would have won without errors and with better luck), so I think they are balanced (Elves are not as interesting).
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I am sorry I have not been much help giving feedback.
Great to see you keep adding stuff to the game. Thank you very much.
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Woot! By adding races you have successfully multiplied content of the game. Congratulations and thank you. I will make sure to drop a log here when more free time becomes available.
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Hydra Slayer v8.0 character log for Human Cephalopoid (cephalopoid)
You are dead...
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (0/3)
Rune of Decapitation (0/4)
Rune of Cancellation (0/5)
Rune of Growth (0/4)
Rune of Conflict (0/4)
Rune of Fungification (0/2)
Scroll of Transmutation (0/3)
Scroll of the Big Stick (2/7)
Scroll of Reforging (0/2)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/2)
Potion of Extreme Speed (0/2)
Potion of Knowledge (1/1)
Potion of Power Juice (2/2)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (0/2)
Items used on the last level:
Scroll of the Big Stick (1)
Potion of Knowledge (1)
Various stats:
217 total wounds (-2 of 69 HP left)
1528 total turns (hydra movements)
2151 total seconds of real time
4 levels solved
Various head stats:
29 heads regrown by vampire hydras while attacking
10 total heads awakened after stunning
3 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
Records:
5 max hydra one-shotted
Attack types used:
normal blade: max 8, 162 uses, 353 enemy heads, 45 kills, 59 mushroom heads, 48 destroyed, 100 heads regrown, 8 stunned heads cut
blunt weapon: max 1, 6 uses, 6 enemy heads
divisor: max 2, 1 uses, 3 enemy heads, 5 heads regrown
shield: max 2, 6 uses, 12 enemy heads
59 total damage prevented by having a shield of big size
4 total damage prevented by having a shield of matching color
Weapons at the end:
poison dagger (-1, from Level 2)
65 uses, 14 enemy heads, 8 kills, 51 mushroom heads, 41 destroyed, 5 heads regrown
Storm Bisector (/2, from Level 5)
1 uses, 3 enemy heads, 5 heads regrown
ice buckler (P2, from Level 5)
2 uses, 4 enemy heads
acid double sword (-8, acid scythe from Level 5)
7 uses, 55 enemy heads, 21 heads regrown
On the ground:
acid buckler (P2, from Level 3)
4 uses, 8 enemy heads
storm shortsword (-4, from Level 4)
5 uses, 20 enemy heads, 1 kills, 8 heads regrown
frozen longsword (-5, frozen shortsword from Level 2)
33 uses, 164 enemy heads, 11 kills, 44 heads regrown, 2 stunned heads cut
poison dagger (-1, from Level 5)
Weapon history:
(L1) emerald staff (S1, from Level 1)
6 uses, 6 enemy heads
(L2) chaos shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
4 uses, 16 enemy heads, 4 kills
(L2) chaos dagger (-1, brought from home)
14 uses, 8 enemy heads, 4 kills, 6 mushroom heads, 6 destroyed, 6 stunned heads cut
(L3) bone sabre (-3, from Level 1)
7 uses, 21 enemy heads, 2 kills, 7 heads regrown
(L3) bone machette (-2, brought from home)
16 uses, 30 enemy heads, 11 kills, 2 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 5 heads regrown
(L3) bone longsword (-5, from Level 3)
1 uses, 5 enemy heads
(L4) flaming machette (-2, from Level 3)
10 uses, 20 enemy heads, 4 kills, 10 heads regrown
Last messages:
The 5-headed swamp hydra attacks you! 5 hd = 2*2 + 1 => 3 => 3 wnd
The 8-headed vampire hydra attacks you! 8 hd = 4*2 => 4 => 3 wnd
Switched to (4) acid double sword.
Switched to (2) Storm Bisector.
Switched to (1) poison dagger.
You attack the 5-headed swamp hydra! 5 - 1 + 2 = 6
The 6-headed swamp hydra attacks you! 6 hd = 3*2 => 3 => 3 wnd
You attack the 6-headed swamp hydra! 6 - 1 + 2 = 7
The 7-headed swamp hydra attacks you! 7 hd = 3*2 + 1 => 4 => 3 wnd
You are dead and cannot move!
After having played nethack for a few months a year ago, not dying of starvation is a welcome change for me, an RL newb.
I still can't really manage fighting those pesky vampire hydras, though. I didn't try the stunning/decapitation trick, as it was suggested to be deprecated in version 7.2, so I tried without, when this swamp hydra ruined everything.
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Thanks for playing and a log :)
Using rune of stunning, decapitation, or fungification on Vampire Hydras generates a warning message and adds a line about "unhonorable attacks" to your log file, there are no other adverse effects - so you can fight them honorably if you want a challenge, or use these runes if not. I suppose you should have been able to kill that Vampire Hydra using Cancellation + Speed (+maybe Growth), and that would not count as unhonorable.
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Thanks for playing and a log :)
Using rune of stunning, decapitation, or fungification on Vampire Hydras generates a warning message and adds a line about "unhonorable attacks" to your log file, there are no other adverse effects - so you can fight them honorably if you want a challenge, or use these runes if not. I suppose you should have been able to kill that Vampire Hydra using Cancellation + Speed (+maybe Growth), and that would not count as unhonorable.
Heh, I figured that if Stunning+Decapitation was unhonorable, using any runes on them, like cancellation, would be as well. "You suppose it does not work on very powerful Hydras, as usual." from the info on the rune of fungification made me doubt about using this one on vampires as well.
I'm playing another round right now.
PS: I smiled at the message I got when I bisected a mushroom.
I'm in a situation now facing a 14-headed golden hydra, armed with a golden bisector, a silver scythe, a chaos dagger and a fire buckler. The scythe gets cancelled out ( -7 + 7 = 0), the bisector gets x2 (and I wonder what that would mean in this case, whether the hydra results in having 14 or 21 heads), but the dagger has +0. Should I rune-cancel him, or can I take the damage for 6 turns and finish him with the scythe?
This has been a lucky character, I wouldn't want to lose him just yet.
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This is somewhat arbitrary, but runes of cancellation are OK, as vampire hydras remain very powerful after using runes of cancellation (while stun+decapitation combo kills them). Yet, they are not strong enough to forbid using runes of fungification. :) (BTW, for special enemies, you should be able to see their resistances against runes etc. by pressing 'f' while seeing them.)
x2 means that the hydra regrows 2 heads for each head cut, so in this case the result would be 21 heads. This could be a good occassion for using runes or scrolls, but it probably depends on what you have...
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I'm in a situation now facing a 14-headed golden hydra, armed with a golden bisector, a silver scythe, a chaos dagger and a fire buckler. The scythe gets cancelled out ( -7 + 7 = 0), the bisector gets x2 (and I wonder what that would mean in this case, whether the hydra results in having 14 or 21 heads), but the dagger has +0. Should I rune-cancel him, or can I take the damage for 6 turns and finish him with the scythe?
This has been a lucky character, I wouldn't want to lose him just yet.
Don't forget about scrolls of Transformation (they shift element of current weapon).
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There, I cancelled and killed the 14-headed beast now. :)
So the Scroll of Transmutation changes the color? And Reforging changes a random aspect, which could really be anything?
What happens if I use Scroll of the Big Stick on a bisector, btw? Will it divide by 3, 4, 5...?
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Yes, the scroll of Transmutation changes the color (as the description says, I think it is clear; it also says something about what the new color will be). About reforging, it is not random, but you'll need to do some experimenting to know the rules (an important thing is that it splits the weapon into two new weapons, rather than changing a random aspect; also, the scroll says what will the new weapon be, and you can cancel using it up it if you would not like the result).
Yes, using Big Stick on a bisector works as you say.
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Hydra Slayer v8.0 character log for Human Cephalopoid (cephalopoid)
You are dead...
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (6/7)
Rune of Decapitation (3/4)
Rune of Cancellation (8/15)
Rune of Growth (4/10)
Rune of Conflict (2/5)
Rune of Fungification (1/4)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (1/4)
Scroll of Transmutation (0/6)
Scroll of the Big Stick (8/12)
Scroll of Reforging (0/4)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/8)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/1)
Potion of Extreme Speed (1/4)
Potion of Knowledge (0/10)
Potion of Power Juice (4/4)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (1/11)
Potion of Ambidexterity (0/8)
1 items have not been picked up
Items used on the last level:
Scroll of the Big Stick (1)
Various stats:
712 total wounds (-1 of 129 HP left)
6541 total turns (hydra movements)
14529 total seconds of real time
10 levels solved
2 times saved a game
1 vampire hydras have been killed
2 ettins were killed
Various head stats:
9 heads regrown by vampire hydras while attacking
38 total heads awakened after stunning
4 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
5 enemy heads grown by Rune of Growth
204 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
Records:
12 max hydra one-shotted
Attack types used:
normal blade: max 12, 450 uses, 1229 enemy heads, 78 kills, 202 mushroom heads, 111 destroyed, 260 heads regrown, 100 stunned heads cut
obsidian blade: max 1, 108 uses, 86 enemy heads, 12 kills, 22 mushroom heads, 10 destroyed, 46 stunned heads cut
blunt weapon: max 9, 7 uses, 63 enemy heads
divisor: max 10, 32 uses, 766 enemy heads, 1 mushroom heads, 90 heads regrown, 27 stunned heads cut
missile: max 4, 13 uses, 41 enemy heads, 8 kills, 11 mushroom heads, 7 destroyed, 5 heads regrown
12 total hydras hit by your missiles
1 missile attacks hit mushrooms before hydras
3 missile attacks hit mushrooms after hydras
1 missile attacks mixed total and partial destruction
shield: max 5, 22 uses, 71 enemy heads
290 total damage prevented by having a shield of big size
11 total damage prevented by having a shield of matching color
zombie: max 8, 0 uses, 65 enemy heads, 39 heads regrown
120 total mushroom heads converted to zombie heads
non-zombie hydras: max 8, 0 uses, 240 enemy heads, 4 kills, 115 heads regrown
bare hands: 28 uses, 11 destroyed
Weapons at the end:
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 8)
108 uses, 86 enemy heads, 12 kills, 22 mushroom heads, 10 destroyed, 46 stunned heads cut
flaming triple sword (-12, from Level 10)
11 uses, 132 enemy heads, 2 kills, 6 heads regrown
chaos katana (-11, from Level 9)
11 uses, 121 enemy heads, 2 kills, 34 heads regrown
Acid Decimator (/10, from Level 9)
5 uses, 477 enemy heads, 33 heads regrown
ancient spiked shield (P5, ancient knuckle from Level 9)
3 uses, 8 enemy heads
sapphire 2-staff of fortune (S14, from Level 11)
On the ground:
poison triple sword (-12, from Level 11)
storm scythe (-7, from Level 8)
9 uses, 63 enemy heads, 4 kills, 7 heads regrown, 7 stunned heads cut
Weapon history:
(L1) flaming machette (-2, from Level 1)
4 uses, 8 enemy heads, 4 kills
(L1) frozen machette (-2, brought from home)
4 uses, 8 enemy heads, 3 kills, 1 heads regrown
(L2) flaming dagger (-1, brought from home)
33 uses, 8 enemy heads, 6 kills, 25 mushroom heads, 25 destroyed
(L2) acid sabre (-3, from Level 1)
3 uses, 9 enemy heads, 2 kills, 1 heads regrown
(L3) chaos shuriken (M4, from Level 2)
13 uses, 41 enemy heads, 8 kills, 11 mushroom heads, 7 destroyed, 5 heads regrown
(L3) flaming shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
6 uses, 24 enemy heads, 3 kills, 4 heads regrown
(L3) chaos sabre (-3, from Level 3)
2 uses, 6 enemy heads, 1 kills
(L4) acid longsword (-5, from Level 3)
16 uses, 80 enemy heads, 5 kills, 25 heads regrown
(L5) poison dagger (-1, from Level 2)
71 uses, 23 enemy heads, 6 kills, 48 mushroom heads, 35 destroyed, 24 heads regrown, 4 stunned heads cut
(L6) acid broadsword (-6, from Level 4)
23 uses, 138 enemy heads, 7 kills, 18 heads regrown, 19 stunned heads cut
(L6) ash dagger (-1, from Level 5)
38 uses, 24 enemy heads, 6 kills, 14 mushroom heads, 8 destroyed, 31 heads regrown, 8 stunned heads cut
(L7) poison scythe (-7, poison broadsword from Level 5)
33 uses, 207 enemy heads, 9 kills, 48 heads regrown, 14 stunned heads cut
(L7) skeletal small shield (P4, skeletal buckler from Level 3)
16 uses, 48 enemy heads
(L7) amethyst maul (S9, from Level 5)
7 uses, 63 enemy heads
(L7) poison shortsword (-4, from Level 7)
1 uses, 4 enemy heads, 1 kills
(L8) storm two-handed sword (-10, storm bastard sword from Level 7)
16 uses, 159 enemy heads, 7 kills, 10 heads regrown, 5 stunned heads cut
(L8) bone double sword (-8, from Level 7)
11 uses, 88 enemy heads, 2 kills, 18 heads regrown, 24 stunned heads cut
(L8) silver dagger (-1, from Level 6)
149 uses, 34 enemy heads, 4 kills, 115 mushroom heads, 43 destroyed, 26 heads regrown, 19 stunned heads cut
(L9) Ash Bisector (/2, from Level 6)
21 uses, 169 enemy heads, 1 mushroom heads, 46 heads regrown, 9 stunned heads cut
(L9) chaos two-handed sword (-10, from Level 8)
6 uses, 60 enemy heads, 1 kills, 7 heads regrown
(L9) golden spiked shield (P5, from Level 7)
3 uses, 15 enemy heads
(L9) acid katana (-11, from Level 6)
3 uses, 33 enemy heads, 3 kills
(L9) Silver Trisector (/3, from Level 9)
6 uses, 120 enemy heads, 11 heads regrown, 18 stunned heads cut
Last messages:
The 148-headed ice hydra attacks you! 148 hd = 29*5 + 3 => 32 => 6 wnd
You attack the 148-headed ice hydra! 148 - 12
The 136-headed ice hydra attacks you! 136 hd = 27*5 + 1 => 28 => 6 wnd
You attack the 136-headed ice hydra! 136 - 12
The 124-headed ice hydra attacks you! 124 hd = 24*5 + 4 => 28 => 6 wnd
You attack the 124-headed ice hydra! 124 - 12
The 112-headed ice hydra attacks you! 112 hd = 22*5 + 2 => 24 => 6 wnd
You attack the 112-headed ice hydra! 112 - 12
The 100-headed ice hydra attacks you! 100 hd = 20*5 => 20 => 6 wnd
You are dead and cannot move!
I got quite far this time. Once I had made a 120-headed hydra using fungal necromancy after having fungified another. Unfortunately it got attacked by three hydras and it got torn into pieces soon. Two levels down I got careless and died. Either I was lucky or I'm getting the hang of it.
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This is a very interesting game, and I have several things to say about it.
First, I'd prefer for shooting and moving to be independent for several reasons. I don't want to accidentally shoot a hydra or even worse, mushrooms, while retreating. Also, it is annoying to have to change weapons in order to carry a shuriken.
My solution would be to add a fire button, even though they are overused.
Also, if you're a naga and you try to go fight using a dagger and nothing in your other hand, you get a confusing message. I can't figure out how to kill hydras with one head as a naga at all in fact.
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This is a very interesting game, and I have several things to say about it.
First, I'd prefer for shooting and moving to be independent for several reasons. I don't want to accidentally shoot a hydra or even worse, mushrooms, while retreating. Also, it is annoying to have to change weapons in order to carry a shuriken.
My solution would be to add a fire button, even though they are overused.
Well, in the current system, you have to remember to alway press e.g. "1" immediately after picking up the shuriken, to switch to a normal weapon. I like how it manages to allow throwing missiles without requiring an extra key. But yeah, I could make an optional fire key, to work in the usual way.
Also, if you're a naga and you try to go fight using a dagger and nothing in your other hand, you get a confusing message. I can't figure out how to kill hydras with one head as a naga at all in fact.
It should work like this: you select a set of weapons to use - dark gray numbers denote weapons which are not selected, and yellow numbers denote selected ones. Press a key assigned to a non-selected weapon to add it to the set, and pres a key assigned to an already selected weapon to select only it. So, on the Level 1, you should probably press "1" twice to select only the dagger to kill a 1-headed hydra, "2" twice to select only the machette to kill a 2-headed hydra, and e.g. "112" to select both weapons at once to kill a 3-headed hydra. Does this work for you? There is no need to drop a weapon. The confusing message probably wanted to say that you have selected an empty weapon slot for your attack. (The same interface works is used for other races after drinking the Potion of Ambidexterity.)
Thanks for your comments!
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I made it! :D
Hydra Slayer v8.0 character log for Human Cephalopoid (cephalopoid)
You have won and escaped after killing the Ancient Hydra!
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (9/11)
Rune of Decapitation (5/13)
Rune of Cancellation (6/15)
Rune of Growth (0/18)
Rune of Conflict (2/6)
Rune of Fungification (2/6)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (2/2)
Scroll of Transmutation (3/14)
Scroll of the Big Stick (28/29)
Scroll of Reforging (2/8)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/8)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/4)
Potion of Extreme Speed (8/10)
Potion of Knowledge (4/14)
Potion of Power Juice (6/6)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (9/13)
Potion of Ambidexterity (0/6)
Potion of Life (2/2)
1 items have not been picked up
Items used on the ancient hydra level:
Rune of Stunning (1)
Scroll of Transmutation (1)
Scroll of the Big Stick (3)
Potion of Extreme Speed (3)
Potion of Knowledge (1)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (1)
Costs of winning the small game:
750 wounds
4724$ of inventory items used up
256 mutation score
(when slaying each hydra, you get +1 for each extra arm)
22 items used against the boss
(including permanent effects of BS/L/PJ obtained on previous levels)
28 wounds from the ancient hydra attacks
Various stats:
2733 total wounds (153 of 786 HP left)
20827 total turns (hydra movements)
34036 total seconds of real time
20 levels solved
2 times saved a game
5 vampire hydras have been killed
2 unhonorable attacks against mighty vampires
3 ettins were killed
9 wounds from ettin attacks
Various head stats:
114 heads regrown by vampire hydras while attacking
5182 total heads awakened after stunning
6 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
105900 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
Records:
13 max hydra one-shotted
2 max runes active at once
Attack types used:
normal blade: max 13, to win 13, 505 uses, 1837 enemy heads, 92 kills, 275 mushroom heads, 127 destroyed, 363 heads regrown, 92 stunned heads cut
obsidian blade: max 13, to win 1, 7005 uses, 1742 enemy heads, 83 kills, 6461 mushroom heads, 907 destroyed, 341 stunned heads cut
blunt weapon: max 7, to win 7, 15 uses, 90 enemy heads
divisor: max 11, to win 11, 158 uses, 110022 enemy heads, 28 mushroom heads, 750 heads regrown, 99982 stunned heads cut
eradicator: max 2, to win 2, 25 uses, 1360 enemy heads, 42 mushroom heads, 55 heads regrown, 222 stunned heads cut
missile: max 5, to win 5, 24 uses, 94 enemy heads, 9 kills, 11 mushroom heads, 7 destroyed, 32 heads regrown
24 total hydras hit by your missiles
4 missile attacks hit mushrooms before hydras
3 missile attacks hit mushrooms after hydras
shield: max 5, to win 5, 72 uses, 342 enemy heads
1093 total damage prevented by having a shield of big size
35 total damage prevented by having a shield of matching color
zombie: max 9, to win 8, 0 uses, 265 enemy heads, 10 kills, 74 heads regrown, 25 stunned heads cut
306 total mushroom heads converted to zombie heads
non-zombie hydras: max 8, to win 7, 0 uses, 229 enemy heads, 3 kills, 82 heads regrown
bare hands: 5 uses, 3 destroyed
pickaxe: max 3, 4 uses, 10 enemy heads
Weapons at the end:
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 8)
6858 uses, 445 enemy heads, 75 kills, 6413 mushroom heads, 904 destroyed, 282 stunned heads cut
Chaos Eradicator (R2, from Level 12)
25 uses, 1360 enemy heads, 42 mushroom heads, 55 heads regrown, 222 stunned heads cut
obsidian claymore (-13, obtained by reforging, from Level 13)
147 uses, 1297 enemy heads, 8 kills, 48 mushroom heads, 3 destroyed, 59 stunned heads cut
Bone Trisector (/3, from Level 12)
72 uses, 4088 enemy heads, 415 heads regrown, 6 stunned heads cut
Ash UnDecimator (/11, Ash Decimator from Level 10)
35 uses, 102508 enemy heads, 9 mushroom heads, 138 heads regrown, 99971 stunned heads cut
ancient spiked shield (P5, ancient knuckle from Level 9)
62 uses, 310 enemy heads
sapphire hammer of death (S23, from Level 19)
Frozen Bisector (/2, from Level 18)
4 uses, 1185 enemy heads, 4 mushroom heads, 36 heads regrown
On the ground:
acid claymore (-13, from Level 20)
Storm Double Bisector (/4, from Level 20)
amethyst great mace (S10, from Level 20)
Weapon history:
(L1) bone machette (-2, brought from home)
5 uses, 10 enemy heads, 5 kills
(L2) ash machette (-2, from Level 2)
4 uses, 8 enemy heads, 3 kills, 1 heads regrown
(L2) frozen machette (-2, from Level 1)
2 uses, 4 enemy heads
(L2) storm dagger (-1, brought from home)
28 uses, 6 enemy heads, 6 kills, 22 mushroom heads, 22 destroyed
(L2) chaos sabre (-3, from Level 1)
5 uses, 15 enemy heads, 4 kills, 2 heads regrown
(L3) silver shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
6 uses, 24 enemy heads, 4 kills, 2 heads regrown
(L4) bone longsword (-5, from Level 3)
8 uses, 40 enemy heads, 3 kills, 11 heads regrown
(L5) acid broadsword (-6, from Level 4)
14 uses, 84 enemy heads, 5 kills, 10 heads regrown
(L5) poison scythe (-7, flaming scythe from Level 5)
6 uses, 42 enemy heads, 2 kills, 14 heads regrown
(L5) chaos sabre (-3, from Level 5)
1 uses, 3 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed
(L5) Silver Bisector (/2, from Level 5)
1 uses, 1 mushroom heads
(L6) flaming pentagram (M5, flaming shuriken from Level 2)
24 uses, 94 enemy heads, 9 kills, 11 mushroom heads, 7 destroyed, 32 heads regrown
(L6) amethyst morningstar (S7, amethyst warhammer from Level 5)
13 uses, 86 enemy heads
(L6) poison shortsword (-4, from Level 6)
2 uses, 8 enemy heads
(L7) bone double sword (-8, from Level 6)
8 uses, 64 enemy heads, 2 kills, 3 heads regrown
(L8) acid bastard sword (-9, brought from home)
12 uses, 108 enemy heads, 2 kills, 23 heads regrown
(L8) silver dagger (-1, from Level 2)
232 uses, 38 enemy heads, 9 kills, 194 mushroom heads, 100 destroyed, 6 heads regrown, 21 stunned heads cut
(L8) ruby club (S2, from Level 8)
1 uses, 2 enemy heads
(L9) silver double sword (-8, from Level 9)
1 uses, 8 enemy heads, 1 kills
(L9) were-spiked shield (P5, golden spiked shield from Level 6)
4 uses, 20 enemy heads
(L9) chaos bastard sword (-9, from Level 7)
20 uses, 180 enemy heads, 4 kills, 26 heads regrown
(L9) storm two-handed sword (-10, from Level 8)
15 uses, 150 enemy heads, 3 kills, 23 heads regrown
(L10) frozen triple sword (-12, from Level 10)
4 uses, 48 enemy heads, 1 kills
(L12) ash double sword (-8, ash shortsword from Level 4)
70 uses, 348 enemy heads, 25 kills, 20 mushroom heads, 2 destroyed, 79 heads regrown, 65 stunned heads cut
(L13) Acid Trisector (/3, from Level 9)
24 uses, 1220 enemy heads, 4 mushroom heads, 102 heads regrown
(L14) silver claymore (-13, poison katana from Level 9)
52 uses, 628 enemy heads, 13 kills, 158 heads regrown, 6 stunned heads cut
(L16) flaming broadsword (-6, from Level 14)
10 uses, 24 enemy heads, 36 mushroom heads, 2 destroyed, 5 heads regrown
(L18) ice buckler (P2, from Level 15)
6 uses, 12 enemy heads
(L18) amethyst mattock (W3, amethyst pick axe from Level 17)
4 uses, 10 enemy heads
(L20) Silver Bisector (/2, from Level 17)
22 uses, 1021 enemy heads, 10 mushroom heads, 59 heads regrown, 5 stunned heads cut
(L20) amethyst club (S2, amethyst quarterstaff from Level 19)
1 uses, 2 enemy heads
Last messages:
The 2940-headed vampire hydra attacks you! 2940 hd = 588*5 => 588 => 11 wnd
You cut through the mushroom!
The 2801-headed were-hydra attacks you! 2801 hd = 560*5 + 1 => 561 => 11 wnd
The 1114-headed storm hydra attacks you! 1114 hd = 222*5 + 4 => 226 => 9 wnd
The 2369-headed acid hydra attacks you! 2369 hd = 473*5 + 4 => 477 => 10 wnd
The 2951-headed vampire hydra attacks you! 2951 hd = 590*5 + 1 => 591 => 11 wnd
The 1114-headed storm hydra attacks you! 1114 hd = 222*5 + 4 => 226 => 9 wnd
The 225-headed ice hydra attacks you! 225 hd = 45*5 => 45 => 7 wnd
The 2962-headed vampire hydra attacks you! 2962 hd = 592*5 + 2 => 594 => 11 wnd
You drink the Potion of Extreme Speed!
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Congratulations!
Of course, more challenge is still waiting below level 21 :)
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It should work like this: you select a set of weapons to use - dark gray numbers denote weapons which are not selected, and yellow numbers denote selected ones. Press a key assigned to a non-selected weapon to add it to the set, and pres a key assigned to an already selected weapon to select only it. So, on the Level 1, you should probably press "1" twice to select only the dagger to kill a 1-headed hydra, "2" twice to select only the machette to kill a 2-headed hydra, and e.g. "112" to select both weapons at once to kill a 3-headed hydra. Does this work for you? There is no need to drop a weapon. The confusing message probably wanted to say that you have selected an empty weapon slot for your attack. (The same interface works is used for other races after drinking the Potion of Ambidexterity.)
That is completely correct. It is often an interesting experience to try to figure out how the game works, but in this case, I'd prefer to have better instructions for at least some of the events and attributes.
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I suppose that if you experiment with Potions of Ambidexterity when you have lots of arms already, this system should not be difficult to understand. I think I have expected the player who plays Naga has previously played as a Human (as recommended) enough and has done these experiments already. I think I will add a short line which says how to select weapon sets.
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Hydra Slayer v8.0 character log for Elf Cephalopoid (cephalopoid)
You have been killed after defeating the Ancient Hydra...
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (1/6)
Rune of Decapitation (2/8)
Rune of Cancellation (5/13)
Rune of Growth (0/7)
Rune of Conflict (0/9)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (0/2)
Scroll of Transmutation (1/18)
Scroll of the Big Stick (0/23)
Scroll of Reforging (0/1)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/4)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/3)
Potion of Extreme Speed (1/9)
Potion of Knowledge (0/10)
Potion of Power Juice (5/5)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (0/5)
Potion of Ambidexterity (0/5)
Potion of Life (1/2)
2 items have not been picked up
Items used on the ancient hydra level:
Rune of Stunning (1)
Potion of Extreme Speed (1)
Costs of winning the small game:
792 wounds
4133$ of inventory items used up
259 mutation score
(when slaying each hydra, you get +1 for each extra arm)
6 items used against the boss
(including permanent effects of BS/L/PJ obtained on previous levels)
116 wounds from the ancient hydra attacks
Various stats:
1718 total wounds (-4 of 312 HP left)
7680 total turns (hydra movements)
9533 total seconds of real time
15 levels solved
3 vampire hydras have been killed
2 ettins were killed
Various head stats:
111 heads regrown by vampire hydras while attacking
59 total heads awakened after stunning
11 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
986 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
Records:
12 max hydra one-shotted
2 max beasts killed at once with a Power Swipe
Attack types used:
normal blade: max 12, to win 12, 450 uses, 2561 enemy heads, 128 kills, 681 mushroom heads, 228 destroyed, 412 heads regrown, 249 stunned heads cut
obsidian blade: max 1, to win 1, 147 uses, 134 enemy heads, 20 kills, 13 mushroom heads, 13 destroyed, 12 heads regrown, 42 stunned heads cut
blunt weapon: max 12, to win 12, 29 uses, 287 enemy heads
divisor: max 10, to win 10, 65 uses, 103926 enemy heads, 49 mushroom heads, 263 heads regrown, 976 stunned heads cut
eradicator: max 2, 14 uses, 916 enemy heads, 14 mushroom heads, 94 heads regrown, 4 stunned heads cut
shield: max 3, to win 3, 35 uses, 95 enemy heads
508 total damage prevented by having a shield of big size
43 total damage prevented by having a shield of matching color
bare hands: 164 uses, 36 destroyed
Weapons at the end:
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 10)
147 uses, 134 enemy heads, 20 kills, 13 mushroom heads, 13 destroyed, 12 heads regrown, 42 stunned heads cut
acid spiked buckler (P3, from Level 8)
25 uses, 75 enemy heads
Storm Eradicator (R2, from Level 12)
14 uses, 916 enemy heads, 14 mushroom heads, 94 heads regrown, 4 stunned heads cut
ash bastard sword (-9, from Level 7)
103 uses, 669 enemy heads, 28 kills, 258 mushroom heads, 52 destroyed, 139 heads regrown, 24 stunned heads cut
Bone Decimator (/10, from Level 9)
55 uses, 103122 enemy heads, 27 mushroom heads, 206 heads regrown, 976 stunned heads cut
acid triple sword (-12, storm triple sword brought from home)
66 uses, 660 enemy heads, 8 kills, 132 mushroom heads, 25 destroyed, 52 heads regrown, 70 stunned heads cut
Frozen Trisector (/3, from Level 13)
9 uses, 782 enemy heads, 22 mushroom heads, 51 heads regrown
On the ground:
Storm Trisector (/3, from Level 15)
Poison Null Sector (/0, from Level 15)
Weapon history:
(L2) ash sabre (-3, from Level 1)
4 uses, 5 enemy heads, 1 kills, 7 mushroom heads, 7 destroyed
(L3) golden machette (-2, brought from home)
21 uses, 25 enemy heads, 13 kills, 17 mushroom heads, 16 destroyed
(L4) poison sabre (-3, from Level 3)
10 uses, 18 enemy heads, 2 kills, 12 mushroom heads, 8 destroyed, 4 heads regrown
(L4) ash shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
23 uses, 57 enemy heads, 9 kills, 35 mushroom heads, 23 destroyed, 4 heads regrown
(L5) bone longsword (-5, from Level 3)
10 uses, 48 enemy heads, 6 kills, 2 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 5 heads regrown
(L6) flaming scythe (-7, from Level 5)
21 uses, 122 enemy heads, 9 kills, 25 mushroom heads, 10 destroyed, 23 heads regrown
(L6) white buckler (P2, from Level 4)
10 uses, 20 enemy heads
(L7) ash broadsword (-6, from Level 4)
23 uses, 97 enemy heads, 10 kills, 41 mushroom heads, 20 destroyed, 16 heads regrown
(L7) poison bastard sword (-9, from Level 7)
10 uses, 84 enemy heads, 3 kills, 6 mushroom heads, 3 destroyed, 17 heads regrown
(L7) acid dagger (-1, brought from home)
52 uses, 22 enemy heads, 12 kills, 30 mushroom heads, 30 destroyed, 8 stunned heads cut
(L9) chaos dagger (-1, from Level 9)
7 uses, 7 enemy heads, 1 kills, 4 heads regrown, 6 stunned heads cut
(L9) frozen double sword (-8, from Level 6)
27 uses, 193 enemy heads, 4 kills, 23 mushroom heads, 10 destroyed, 27 heads regrown, 41 stunned heads cut
(L9) poison two-handed sword (-10, from Level 8)
24 uses, 186 enemy heads, 5 kills, 54 mushroom heads, 13 destroyed, 59 heads regrown, 6 stunned heads cut
(L9) ruby maul (S9, from Level 8)
12 uses, 108 enemy heads
(L9) Frozen Trisector (/3, from Level 9)
1 uses, 22 enemy heads, 6 heads regrown
(L10) bone dagger (-1, from Level 7)
15 uses, 11 enemy heads, 6 kills, 4 mushroom heads, 4 destroyed, 3 stunned heads cut
(L10) amethyst morningstar (S7, from Level 9)
5 uses, 35 enemy heads
(L10) chaos katana (-11, from Level 9)
16 uses, 171 enemy heads, 4 kills, 5 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 14 heads regrown, 43 stunned heads cut
(L11) acid triple sword (-12, from Level 11)
7 uses, 76 enemy heads, 3 kills, 8 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 10 heads regrown
(L11) bone triple sword (-12, from Level 10)
11 uses, 110 enemy heads, 4 kills, 22 mushroom heads, 4 destroyed, 38 heads regrown, 48 stunned heads cut
(L12) amethyst triple staff (S12, brought from home)
12 uses, 144 enemy heads
Last messages:
Switched to (1) obsidian dagger.
The 67-headed acid hydra attacks you! 67 hd = 22*3 + 1 => 23 => 6-1 wnd
You attack the 67-headed acid hydra! 67 - 1
The 66-headed acid hydra attacks you! 66 hd = 22*3 => 22 => 6-1 wnd
Switched to (6) acid triple sword.
Switched to (7) Frozen Trisector.
You are dead and cannot move!
You are dead and cannot move!
You are dead and cannot move!
You are dead and cannot move!
Forgot to watch my hp. A pity, because I had another life potion. I liked preparing small hydrakills with mushrooms, but not being able to use the dagger on mushrooms felt kind of like the elf was retarded. You can't ever execute a power swipe equiping just a dagger, that's the problem. Cheers!
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I liked preparing small hydrakills with mushrooms, but not being able to use the dagger on mushrooms felt kind of like the elf was retarded. You can't ever execute a power swipe equiping just a dagger, that's the problem. Cheers!
OK, I'll fix that in the next version (so Elves will be able to attack mushrooms to partially destroy them). Thanks! I think Elves are less interesting than other races, so I have not tested them thoroughly. Maybe I'll try to add another twist to them in the next version.
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OK, new version (8.1) in out! It fixes the problems mentioned by sbluen, improves the scoreboard (so now you can see the woundcount/mutation score/treasure ranking for the characters who have won the full game, and also filter by race), and improves the Elves (I still have not tested the full game with them, but they now start with a unique bow weapon).
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Well I had a go with a Naga. Pretty interesting creatures. As expected first three levels went without taking a scratch. Even a 21-headed vampire came my way and was beheaded in an instant.
Later things became much more interesting. Nagas really have to fear being surrounded after stair climb. Their inability to use weapon charges without a speedup is fine too. Sadly ambidexterity and charges don't combine.
Mid game Naga seem weaker than humans. They need Extreme Speed to just catch up with hydras and rarely can escape sieges unscathed. Humans easily maneuver themselves into situations where only one beast can bite them.
Overall I played in very suboptimal way. For most part did not remember divisors go first. After killing AH became reckless and went on rampage trying to make best use of ambidextrous attacks even when consumable use would be better. Nagas are very fun but require more care. Also, I found potions of knowledge useless.
Alien hydras were big surprise and then a great letdown. Why do the need to be cancellation resistant when they are canceled from the very start?
A great moment was when in open cavern there were many hydras around and not much place to flee. I used a growth rune on mushroom to hack through quickly and fight beasts in resulting nook.
Full dump: http://pastie.org/1473752
About weaponry I have not seen yet:
- Decomposer is very powerful. Having it use charges caps the goodness so it is okay balanced guess.
- Dancing blades are almost too good. :) At the end there was an obsidian one to be found.
- Pick axe is fine thing but I regarded it just as a tool and dropped it. I did not think about using Big Sticks on it until few levels deeper. Smashing mushrooms in single turn can be very beneficial though.
- Giant spiked club: Ngghh!! Nngghh!! So heavy ... left it there. :)
Someday I should try to play very carefully and without haste; saving every time I feel bored. Who knows how far I would reach. Next: a troll. They seem very cool.
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Also, I found potions of knowledge useless.
That's true, potions of Knowledge and Runes of Growth do not work reasonably for Nagas. So far I have been too lazy to implement a Naga version of the knowledge algorithm.
Alien hydras were big surprise and then a great letdown. Why do the need to be cancellation resistant when they are canceled from the very start?
That should be very different if your strategy was based on obsidian weapons (alien hydras get x2 against obsidian).
A great moment was when in open cavern there were many hydras around and not much place to flee. I used a growth rune on mushroom to hack through quickly and fight beasts in resulting nook.
Another solution in this case is to use a rune of decapitation on the mushroom.
- Pick axe is fine thing but I regarded it just as a tool and dropped it. I did not think about using Big Sticks on it until few levels deeper. Smashing mushrooms in single turn can be very beneficial though.
I suppose you are right, there are usually better uses of a weapon slot than to carry a pick axe (even a BS-ed one). You could still have some fun with it, though.
Someday I should try to play very carefully and without haste; saving every time I feel bored. Who knows how far I would reach.
I think it is more important to plan your set of weapons and shields well, rather than to play carefully. How many attacks did you usually need to defeat a Hydra? The sentence about legendary Nagas in their description is not a big exaggeration.
Thanks for comments!
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Alien hydras were big surprise and then a great letdown. Why do the need to be cancellation resistant when they are canceled from the very start?
That should be very different if your strategy was based on obsidian weapons (alien hydras get x2 against obsidian).
Ahh! Now that makes sense. Alien hydras can be scary for certain characters.
So decapitation destroys a mushroom? Good to know.
Someday I should try to play very carefully and without haste; saving every time I feel bored. Who knows how far I would reach.
I think it is more important to plan your set of weapons and shields well, rather than to play carefully. How many attacks did you usually need to defeat a Hydra? The sentence about legendary Nagas in their description is not a big exaggeration.
Well, I think average would fall somewhere between two and three slightly leaning towards three. Some hydras (like 630-Alien) were one shotted. Some were taken in two hits by making number of heads divisible by ten and finishing off with basic cutters. Nagas have this advantage of using flaming decimator against fire hydra with impunity. Who cares if it has x2 to it when it does not survive the hit? 250-Fire gets treated with flaming decimator, poison three-handed sword and flaming two-handed sword = hydra corpse. Others were done in three rounds like when I could not waste resulting hydra after decimation in one swipe. Two-thousand heads monsters required three to seven strikes.
By the way, Naga wound weakness makes ettins using swords at you look a bit silly.
The ettin hits you with five-handed sword -25+1 = 26 wounds.
Just had a go with an elf. Sadly I was playing 8.0 so cannot comment on the bow. Elves seem to be easy mode for Hydra Slayer. You do not need to carry missile weapon or small sword in case tiny hydras show up. Constant power swipes mean much less worries with finishing off wounded beasts. It is quite fun choosing whether to attack mushroom near hydra or the creature itself. Figuring out right handedness also changed my tactics slightly. Carrying two weapons of equal cutting power I made sure one was held in left hand and the other in right hand.
Just won small game with using just four PJ, three Transmutations and one Stunning.
Hydra Slayer v8.0 character log for Elf Aerithyn (widmo)
You have won and escaped after killing the Ancient Hydra!
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (1/6)
Rune of Decapitation (0/9)
Rune of Cancellation (0/12)
Rune of Growth (0/12)
Rune of Conflict (0/10)
Rune of Fungification (0/1)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (0/3)
Scroll of Transmutation (3/15)
Scroll of the Big Stick (0/15)
Scroll of Reforging (0/4)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/9)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/3)
Potion of Extreme Speed (1/6)
Potion of Knowledge (0/11)
Potion of Power Juice (4/4)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (0/4)
Potion of Ambidexterity (0/4)
Potion of Life (0/2)
Items used on the last level:
Rune of Stunning (1)
Costs of winning the small game:
854 wounds
4062$ of inventory items used up
272 mutation score
(when slaying each hydra, you get +1 for each extra arm)
5 items used against the boss
(including permanent effects of BS/L/PJ obtained on previous levels)
130 wounds from the ancient hydra attacks
Records:
12 max hydra one-shotted
2 max beasts killed at once with a Power Swipe
2 max hydras killed at once with a missile
Unimpressive for an Elf, eh?
Weapons at the end:
fire spiked shield (P5, from Level 5)
14 uses, 70 enemy heads
chaos katana (-11, brought from home)
27 uses, 272 enemy heads, 9 kills, 25 mushroom heads, 5 destroyed, 35 heads regrown
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 8)
36 uses, 31 enemy heads, 3 kills, 5 mushroom heads, 5 destroyed, 6 stunned heads cut
bone two-handed sword (-10, frozen two-handed sword from Level 8)
31 uses, 256 enemy heads, 13 kills, 54 mushroom heads, 12 destroyed, 36 heads regrown, 6 stunned heads cut
Ash Bisector (/2, Golden Bisector from Level 7)
65 uses, 100760 enemy heads, 20 mushroom heads, 317 heads regrown, 381 stunned heads cut
golden triple sword (-12, from Level 10)
16 uses, 180 enemy heads, 5 kills, 12 mushroom heads, 2 destroyed, 38 heads regrown
Full dump: http://pastie.org/1476660
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Well, I think average would fall somewhere between two and three slightly leaning towards three. Some hydras (like 630-Alien) were one shotted. Some were taken in two hits by making number of heads divisible by ten and finishing off with basic cutters. Nagas have this advantage of using flaming decimator against fire hydra with impunity. Who cares if it has x2 to it when it does not survive the hit? 250-Fire gets treated with flaming decimator, poison three-handed sword and flaming two-handed sword = hydra corpse. Others were done in three rounds like when I could not waste resulting hydra after decimation in one swipe. Two-thousand heads monsters required three to seven strikes.
OK, I understand the set now. Still, it could be improved a bit :)
By the way, Naga wound weakness makes ettins using swords at you look a bit silly.
Oh, I did not notice that. BTW I am planning to make the ettins a bit more intelligent, so they attack the PCs only when they are vulnerable, so it's harder to slay them for free (what "vulnerable" exactly means depends on the PC's race, roughly "unable to use their racial strength, handicapped by their racial weakness, or under Hydra attack").
Just had a go with an elf. Sadly I was playing 8.0 so cannot comment on the bow. Elves seem to be easy mode for Hydra Slayer. You do not need to carry missile weapon or small sword in case tiny hydras show up. Constant power swipes mean much less worries with finishing off wounded beasts. It is quite fun choosing whether to attack mushroom near hydra or the creature itself. Figuring out right handedness also changed my tactics slightly. Carrying two weapons of equal cutting power I made sure one was held in left hand and the other in right hand.
Probably you are right that they are easier (and even easier now, with the access to the bow). But probably the advantages of Power Swipes diminish on the later levels, below the first victory, as almost every hydra is big then. Anyways, I think it's not the problem if it is easier if it gives new challenges, and the bow changes tactics quite a bit. (Maybe I should forbid the Elf also from using power swipes which end in partially killing a hydra? I am not sure whether this is good because of extra challenge, or bad because of a smaller number of possible tactics.)
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BTW I am planning to make the ettins a bit more intelligent, so they attack the PCs only when they are vulnerable, so it's harder to slay them for free
Good thing. They carry really cool weapons so it should not be possible to take them costless most of the time.
(Maybe I should forbid the Elf also from using power swipes which end in partially killing a hydra? I am not sure whether this is good because of extra challenge, or bad because of a smaller number of possible tactics.)
I am not sure either. A nerf is recommended but such change may prove too strong. If you do make it please consider giving some bonus hit points for slaying more than one hydra in a swipe. "You feel great after making such a marvelous swing!"
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I am afraid to give such a bonus, because there are some equipment sets which make arranging multiple kills quite easy (and these equipment sets are also very good overall), and it would cause the best strategy of the players using such equipment sets to be constantly arranging multi-kills, which would be boring.
Anyways, version 8.2 is out!
- a new rare weapon type (which makes a difference in ambidextrous attacks)
- Naga healing power (from potions of ambidexterity) wanes after winning the big game (just to make sure that they are unable to go infinitely deep)
- Potions of Knowledge and Runes of Growth now correctly take ambidexterity into account (although this will work really slow if you have many weapons to choose from)
- some minor bugs with Potions of Knowledge fixed (one with nagas, one with vampires)
- Ettin attacks against Nagas no longer get +1
- Ettins are more intelligent now (better at tracking, and cunningly choose when to attack, depending on your race)
- Elven multi-target attack is more restricted now, also some bugs with these restrictions have been fixed (hopefully)
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Is there a full manual somewhere? I didn't see one in the download of 8.2. The in game help screen only lists the keyboard commands. Not actually how to play. I read the web page for it, but it doesn't specifically say how to play. Also, what does the information that is printed on the hydra info screen when the player presses "f"? Did I miss instructions somewhere? The game looks really cool, but just not sure how to play correctly yet. I only just tried it for the first time tonight.
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8.2 already? I downloaded 8.1 yesterday! Won the war with a troll and I must say they are much more powerful than nagas are. With a naga I kept losing HP during deeper levels but troll just keeps regaining them. Will drop a log next time.
Legend:
The web page is the manual. It explains everything I ever needed to know. What is unclear to you?
Crash course for total HS newbies:
Walk into Hydras (represented by numbers or letters) to attack them with chosen weapon. On the right you have a list of weapons you wield. Press a digit next to weapon to select it for next attack. Pick up weapons with 'g' to swap currently selected sword for something else.
Your weapon has a color which represents its type of damage. So, a red weapon will cut as much heads as it says but then a hydra will regrow number of heads written in red color when you press 'f'. Decapitate hydra to kill it. Remember to hit 'i' for stuff you carry.
Finally: have fun!
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Yes, most of the basic ideas are quite simple and should be possible to understand by reading the story and experimentation. But I have added a section on the webpage which explains them, I think that's what Legend wants.
Congrats for winning with a Troll, Ancient! For me, it was the other way around (Naga was not a problem for me, but the Troll died, although he almost did it... although maybe I buffed the trollish club up a bit after trying, not sure).
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Interesting game. I tried it a bit more. The updated web ppage did help some, but still not sure on specifics like how come a weapon of -1 will let me take out a 2 hydra with 2 hits but a -2 weapon won't let me do the same to a 3 hydra? Also what the hydra information means.
I do like how the story on the web page eludes to the rules of play, but would still be nice to also have a read me file with detailed instructions as well.
Is there a way to set a default player and character name? Every time I start the game, both player and character name are set to administrator.
It would also be nice if there was a way to exit back to the main menu after death instead of having to quit and restart the program to play again. Also if there was a use command in the inventory or a yes/no confirmation when using items. I had accidentally used several items that I did not mean to because I pressed the letter of the item without pressing "h" first when I wanted to get info on the item.
Is there a way to get weapon info like you can with the items? What does the b1 next to the bow and m4 next to the storm shuriken mean?
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"how come a weapon of -1 will let me take out a 2 hydra with 2 hits but a -2 weapon won't let me do the same to a 3 hydra?"
I think understanding what was written on the webpage and by Ancient should answer that question. (Note that whether you can kill a 2-head with a -1, or a 3-head with a -2, depends on how many heads does this particular hydra regrow.) Full information shows how many heads each hydra will regrow against each weapon type, for example if you see a red "+2", then it will regrow 2 heads after being attacked with a red sword.
To set a default character and player name, run e.g. "hydra.exe cCharacter uLegend" (BTW you can press Tab or Esc while editing the name to erase "Administrator") (the information about command line options is shown when you try to use them (run "hydra -h" or something), although it might be difficult to see on Windows)
Regarding having to restart the program to play again, and yes/no confirmations when using items, I think that's how most roguelikes do it.
The letter means the type of the weapon and the number its size, so "B1" means "a bow of size 1" and "M4" means "a missile of size 4". How exactly do bows and missiles work... well, just try them :)
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Most roguelikes do just exit upon death, but some don't. Like Incursion and DoomRL let you go back to the main title screen. Given the rather quick gameplay sessions of Hydra Slayer, I think it would be nice to have an option to go back to the main title since the player is presented with some options upon death anyways.
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Yes, HS could get back to menu upon death but it is minor issue.
Here is promised full log of Olorog the troll who won great war against beasts of Hydras Nest.
Full dump: http://pastie.org/1488147
Some commented excerpts follow:
Items used on the ancient hydra level:
Rune of Growth (2)
Scroll of the Big Stick (1)
Potion of Life (1)
Should not count because the AH was long dead when I used all these runes. Growths were expended for fun. Olorog not understand why money important. There is no mention which AH it was though. On the other hand I would not find logging what items were used on 50th level interesting at all.
Costs of winning the big game:
5080 wounds
20265$ of inventory items used up
Here wounds dealt by second AH could be interesting to compare with small game boss.
Various stats:
2 times saved a game
13 vampire hydras have been killed
1 unhonorable attacks against mighty vampires
Led one vampire to stunning rune. Otherwise these were clean fights. I pull four dividers, largest shield and three cutters of varying sizes and hope for number of heads to be amneable to one of my N-sectors. That was all planning done for them.
15 ettins were killed
52 wounds from ettin attacks
3 potions of ambidexterity used on scrolls on reforging
43 points of size stolen from other weapons
Olorog carried many weapons and could often find use for ambidexterity and reforging combo. If reduced weapons happened to be odd size they were left behind. By accident I trashed my only machete and dealt with ettins by smashing them with a buckler and finishing with obsidian dagger.
[g] sapphire maul of death (S73, ruby staff of power from Level 36)
Used ambi+reforge twice on this not to use it anyway.
[h] Staff of the Mushroom Lord (F1, from Level 38)
1 uses, 1 enemy heads
I suspected F1 means one fungification charge but it behaved just like standard basher. Its mushroom displacement ability is very useful. I led smaller hydras into a place where they were almost surrounded by mushrooms and then stepped through one just to safely pull a missile to finish it off.
Overall I find playing a troll to be a most distinguished experience. All runes become merely powerups but as a compensation you get to actually use the Eradicator and blade of Logaems effectively when opportunity arises. The only thing I regret in this game is not remembering to use vorpal weapons when Z-hydras appeared.
Just to show off:
[p] frozen vorpal edge of power (-1018, from Level 38)
- frozen vorpal star of might (M1451, from Level 46)
The trollish artifact is too powerful when only small hydras (200 and less, they seem to stay frozen indefinitely) appear and too weak when huge ones (2000 or more, you may not have time to kill two of them) are encountered. Otherwise I found the need to hurry if I wanted to get the most beast down while paralysed to be rightly balanced. It was necessary 400-headed golden before 212-headed vampire despite its less dangerous. It will wake sooner. It was also important to maneuver a while until many creatures were near you so least time is wasted walking from one hydra to another.
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The trollish artifact is too powerful when only small hydras (200 and less, they seem to stay frozen indefinitely) appear and too weak when huge ones (2000 or more, you may not have time to kill two of them) are encountered. Otherwise I found the need to hurry if I wanted to get the most beast down while paralysed to be rightly balanced. It was necessary 400-headed golden before 212-headed vampire despite its less dangerous. It will wake sooner. It was also important to maneuver a while until many creatures were near you so least time is wasted walking from one hydra to another.
Nice strategies with the trollish artifact:) It seems you have used up most of your BS here. (My troll seemed to be less lucky in terms of BS, only 41 of them until Level 46.) Glad that you liked the Trollish race.
I see some bugs in the log, I'll fix them when I have ideas for enough new features. (Apart from ones you mentioned, I forgot to include the big game mutation score in the log, it claims that you have brought a frozen double sword from home, and does not say what material was the trollish club made of. I suppose the sword was taken off an Ettin, right? And what was the material?)
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Yes, 28 uses of trollish club meaning almost 50% of Big Sticks went into this. The club started as Q2 or even Q3 I think.
[D] golden bastard sword (-9, frozen double sword brought from home)
64 uses, 509 enemy heads, 21 kills, 63 mushroom heads, 7 destroyed, 39 heads
You mean this? Strangely it escaped my attention. My suspicion is I swapped it with a weapon lying on ground for emergency hydra murdering and then save/restore combo happened. Or I slain etting holding this without picking it up and then saved. Can't help you with this more. :-(
Trollish club had no material shown. It was color index 2, the same color Alien hydras are. When switching description read "Giant Spiked Club". Until I found it with my former naga I hoped to find green "extraterrestrial knuckle" which would reduce wounds by alien hydras.
And yes, I like trolls best. Nagas seemed more attractive but in practice it turned out to be the other way around for me.
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Hydra Slayer v8.0 character log for Naga Cephalopoid (cephalopoid)
You have been killed after defeating the Ancient Hydra...
Items found and used:
Rune of Stunning (8/10)
Rune of Decapitation (8/12)
Rune of Cancellation (1/13)
Rune of Growth (7/26)
Rune of Conflict (0/11)
Rune of Fungification (3/5)
Rune of Fungal Necromancy (4/7)
Scroll of Transmutation (6/30)
Scroll of the Big Stick (35/35)
Scroll of Reforging (5/8)
Potion of Power Swipe (0/13)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/11)
Potion of Extreme Speed (15/16)
Potion of Knowledge (1/9)
Potion of Power Juice (8/8)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (4/33)
Potion of Ambidexterity (6/6)
Potion of Life (2/2)
1 items have not been picked up
Items used on the ancient hydra level:
Potion of Extreme Speed (2)
Potion of Life (1)
Costs of winning the small game:
635 wounds
9072$ of inventory items used up
270 mutation score
(when slaying each hydra, you get +1 for each extra arm)
7 items used against the boss
(including permanent effects of BS/L/PJ obtained on previous levels)
111 wounds from the ancient hydra attacks
Various stats:
4097 total wounds (0 of 892 HP left)
34311 total turns (hydra movements)
38800 total seconds of real time
36 levels solved
3 times saved a game
8 vampire hydras have been killed
6 ettins were killed
2 potions of ambidexterity used on scrolls on reforging
3 potions of ambidexterity used on other scrolls
Various head stats:
118 heads regrown by vampire hydras while attacking
41 total heads awakened after stunning
1 total beasts awakened after stunning (part or total)
2349 enemy heads grown by Rune of Growth
7975 heads stunned by Rune of Stunning
Records:
576 max hydra one-shotted
105 max power of Mushroom Spores at once
2 max speed drank at once
2 max runes active at once
Attack types used:
normal blade: max 32, to win 11, 1672 uses, 6459 enemy heads, 34 kills, 3429 mushroom heads, 159 destroyed, 26 heads regrown, 65 stunned heads cut
obsidian blade: max 4, to win 4, 3907 uses, 2706 enemy heads, 4 kills, 3122 mushroom heads, 540 destroyed, 36 stunned heads cut
blunt weapon: max 36, to win 7, 443 uses, 96 enemy heads, 1 kills, 102 mushroom heads, 13 destroyed, 2 stunned heads cut
divisor: max 10, to win 10, 308 uses, 138166 enemy heads, 100 mushroom heads, 43 heads regrown
eradicator: max 2, 77 uses, 17440 enemy heads, 16 mushroom heads, 11 heads regrown, 32 stunned heads cut
shield: max 4, 28 uses
62 total damage prevented by having a shield of big size
-502 total damage prevented by having a shield of matching color
zombie: max 12, 0 uses, 730 enemy heads, 3 kills, 565 heads regrown, 99 stunned heads cut
2422 total mushroom heads converted to zombie heads
non-zombie hydras: max 10, 0 uses, 370 enemy heads
ambidexterity: 1186 uses, 169275 enemy heads, 324 kills, 3156 mushroom heads, 349 destroyed, 2279 heads regrown, 1473 stunned heads cut
3346 one-hand hits used in ambidextrous attacks
bare hands: 15 uses, 5 destroyed
pickaxe: max 1, 68 uses, 306 mushroom heads, 66 destroyed
Weapons at the end:
obsidian dagger (-1, from Level 10)
3400 uses, 14 enemy heads, 1 kills, 2714 mushroom heads, 529 destroyed
flaming machette (-2, brought from home)
605 uses, 36 enemy heads, 11 kills, 176 mushroom heads, 44 destroyed, 16 heads regrown, 5 stunned heads cut
obsidian shortsword of dancing (D4, obsidian sabre of dancing from Level 31)
128 uses, 6 enemy heads, 1 kills, 102 mushroom heads, 13 destroyed, 2 stunned heads cut
ash double sword (-8, obtained by reforging, from Level 30)
67 uses, 8 enemy heads, 1 kills, 8 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 8 stunned heads cut
ash double scythe (-14, golden double sword brought from home)
727 uses, 136 enemy heads, 10 kills, 400 mushroom heads, 45 destroyed, 8 heads regrown, 48 stunned heads cut
golden blade of might (-32, golden six-handed sword from Level 32)
40 uses
Poison Decimator (/10, from Level 9)
178 uses, 234 enemy heads, 9 mushroom heads, 17 heads regrown
Acid Eradicator (R2, Storm Eradicator from Level 12)
77 uses, 420 enemy heads, 16 mushroom heads, 11 heads regrown, 32 stunned heads cut
Staff of the Mushroom King (F12, Staff of the Mushroom Lord from Level 23)
177 uses, 61 enemy heads
ruby mace of might (S36, ruby epic staff from Level 30)
53 uses
On the ground:
golden double sword (-8, from Level 36)
emerald hammer (S3, from Level 36)
silver pentagram (M5, from Level 36)
Weapon history:
(L2) silver sabre (-3, from Level 1)
1 uses
(L2) poison shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
6 uses, 16 enemy heads, 4 kills
(L3) amethyst quarterstaff (S4, from Level 3)
1 uses
(L5) frozen scythe (-7, from Level 5)
5 uses
(L6) amethyst morningstar (S7, brought from home)
2 uses
(L6) ash broadsword (-6, from Level 4)
15 uses, 6 enemy heads, 2 heads regrown
(L7) acid bastard sword (-9, from Level 7)
2 uses, 9 enemy heads
(L9) ash katana (-11, from Level 9)
5 uses, 11 enemy heads
(L10) storm shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
56 uses, 20 enemy heads, 4 kills, 12 mushroom heads, 3 destroyed
(L10) chaos dagger (-1, brought from home)
143 uses, 8 enemy heads, 4 kills, 72 mushroom heads, 66 destroyed, 4 stunned heads cut
(L12) Ash Bisector (/2, from Level 6)
52 uses, 54 enemy heads, 15 mushroom heads, 12 heads regrown
(L15) ruby warhammer (S6, from Level 12)
14 uses
(L20) ruby great mace (S10, from Level 19)
5 uses
(L22) golden small shield (P4, from Level 19)
27 uses
(L24) Poison Bisector (/2, from Level 14)
58 uses, 21 enemy heads, 33 mushroom heads, 14 heads regrown
(L26) Bone Pentasector (/5, Bone Double Bisector from Level 21)
18 uses
(L29) fire spiked buckler (P3, from Level 28)
1 uses
(L30) sapphire pick axe (W1, from Level 29)
68 uses, 306 mushroom heads, 66 destroyed
(L31) emerald epic hammer (S29, from Level 25)
63 uses, 29 enemy heads
(L31) Silver Double Bisector (/4, from Level 28)
2 uses
(L32) obsidian shortsword (-4, obtained by reforging, from Level 9)
507 uses, 76 enemy heads, 3 kills, 56 mushroom heads, 11 destroyed, 36 stunned heads cut
Last messages:
Switched to (4) ash double sword.
Switched to (3) obsidian shortsword of dancing.
Switched to (1) obsidian dagger.
Switched to (3) obsidian shortsword of dancing.
Switched to (1) obsidian dagger.
You attack the 132-headed acid hydra!
The 127-headed acid hydra attacks you! 3 hd => 3+1 wnd
909-headed chaos hydra attacks the 127-headed acid hydra! 127 - 11 + 13 = 129
941-headed were-hydra attacks the 129-headed acid hydra! 129 - 11 + 6 = 124
You are dead and cannot move!
Level 37! I was a naga, and if you look closely at the log, you could be able to deduce a tactic I used(apart from that ash double scythe, which got BS'd by mistake, should've been a 16-sized one). I like to compare it with binary clocks. The first three slots were kept for swords with sizes 1, 2 and 4, and as the game progressed I could add 8, 16 and at the end even 32 to my weaponry. The rest was handled by my eradicator and decimator.
# Naga healing power (from potions of ambidexterity) wanes after winning the big game (just to make sure that they are unable to go infinitely deep)
Wait, so there isn't an end to this game? I was waiting for some kind of second boss fight...
If I'd known that before I might've not taken those last risks in level 37.
I had some trouble with my "pet" zombie hydras as well. Sometimes they are just plain useless, like when they're waking stunned hydras up. It's a pity you can't take them along to next levels as well.
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Until I found it with my former naga I hoped to find green "extraterrestrial knuckle" which would reduce wounds by alien hydras.
I don't understand what you mean here, but if you want an "alien knuckle", you can transmute the ancient one.
Level 37! I was a naga, and if you look closely at the log, you could be able to deduce a tactic I used(apart from that ash double scythe, which got BS'd by mistake, should've been a 16-sized one). I like to compare it with binary clocks. The first three slots were kept for swords with sizes 1, 2 and 4, and as the game progressed I could add 8, 16 and at the end even 32 to my weaponry. The rest was handled by my eradicator and decimator.
A good idea, although there is still some place for improvement, I think. :)
Wait, so there isn't an end to this game? I was waiting for some kind of second boss fight...
If I'd known that before I might've not taken those last risks in level 37.
Yes, there *is* a second boss fight, and you can leave as a winner after it, but you are also allowed to go even deeper. (But probably nothing new will happen there, other than finding the rare weapons that happened not to be generated during the more official part of the game.)
I had some trouble with my "pet" zombie hydras as well. Sometimes they are just plain useless, like when they're waking stunned hydras up. It's a pity you can't take them along to next levels as well.
That's right, unfortunately the usefulness of zombies is very small, since they often eat less heads than the target regrows, and they cannot regrow themselves... Yeah, I think I'll allow taking zombies to the next level, although this won't make them much more useful.
Conflict is more useful, although it also sometimes has strange results. I have once found a level full of two-digit hydras, used conflict to make two of them battle, a four (or five?) digit winner emerged, and it still lost to one of the two-digits (who had a good resistance to that particular color).
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A new version again, with the following features:
- a new race, Halfling Twins
- now zombies (and twin) follow to the next level
- ability to start a new game from the end menu
- changed the formulas for the trollish club
- zombies are now actually named "zombies"
- second boss is now slightly more challenging (guaranteed to have a prime number of heads)
- fixes with ettin intelligence
- troll club color is now displayed
- changed representations of equipment, so that they will be more unambiguous
- updated the NotEye configuration to include the new weapons etc
- improvements to stats: boss level (only items used before slaying the boss are counted), wounds counted for second boss, weapon source "from Ettin on level XX")
The new race (you play two weaker characters instead of one) seems harder than the old ones, although I expected it to be a bit easier.
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The twin halflings are a very cool addition and give a nice variation on play.
Definitely like being able to go back to the main menu after dying. Although it's kinda awkward having to press "q" to get to the death menu after dying. Often times, I don't realize I'm dead because the screen doesn't automatically go to the death menu.
Still hoping for a yes/no confirmation on the inventory screen. Most roguelikes I have played use the inventory screen to just view your items or have an additional command to use the items from the inventory. Admittedly, simply pressing the letter of the item to use it does speed up play, but on a few occasions, I have wasted items by accidentally pressing a key I didn't mean to or forgetting to press "h" before pressing the letter to get info on the item.
Still getting the hang of how the game works. Still not sure on everything. I never was that great with math.
Weapons with a B# makes the hydras grow heads?
S# means it stuns enemies. What's the benefit of stunning a hydra if you don't have any runes of decapitation besides just keeping them immobile for a few turns?
M# is a missile weapon that has to be thrown or fired?
How do the bucklers/shields work exactly?
Having to drop your weapon to remove mushrooms is kinda annoying.
Kinda frustrating to have to switch between weapons when using the bow since you can't move while wielding the bow.
A very fun and different kind of roguelike. I like the abstract style of it.
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A new small update is out (9.1).
- a new rare weapon type
- fixed some typos and improved some texts
- fixes with twins: less vulnerable on stairs; fixed a bug with hydras pursuing twins incorrectly
Legend:
As for stunning, a hydra that has all its heads stunned does nothing, and a partially stunned hydra does less damage. Stunning is caused by S-weapons, shields, elven bows, and some rare weapons. If you want to see the benefit, you can compare two weapon sets using potions of knowledge. It depends on the hydra, but if you have a large stunner, it will often recommend using it. I have placed a shield spoiler here (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydra-damage.html). If you are annoyed by having to switch off the bow (or missile) to move, you can press "T" to use the manual fire mode.
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Thanks for the shield spoiler. It was very helpful.
I was wondering if you intend to make it possible to return to the previous level? I left some weapons on a level and went down to the next, thinking I could return to the previous level to pick up the weapons again if I needed them. I found out the hard way that it's not possible and those weapons were then lost. Instead, I was just resented with the Quit/save Menu.
I was hoping, that maybe in a future version of the game, the player may be able to travel back to previously visited levels. On the other hand, I can somewhat see how this may create a slight balance issue. Perhaps if the player was only allowed to go back a single level and if a smaller amount of hydras respawn when entering a previously visited level? That way if the player wanted to try and stash weapons like I intended to, there would be a risk in retrieving them and since you could only go back a single level, you can only keep as many weapons there as you could carry. And if you left something on say level 3, you clear level 4. You can go back to level 3 to pick up the weapons if you wanted, but once you enter level 5, you can no longer revisit level 3, only level 4 and so on.
Just an idea/request.
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No, you are supposed to carry only the limited number of weapons to the next level (unless a Troll). I think that's the same as in e.g. Rogue and DoomRL (and also Moria variants). Allowing returning would cause imbalance and provoke boring gameplay (going to an old level to get the weapon which is exactly what you need now), and require a bit of programming and bigger size of savefile. I hate Moria/Angband variants for the limited equipment, which makes no sense IMO, but "go down and never look back" system as in DoomRL (and Hydra Slayer) is very good IMO. Some kind of a limited option of retrieving the old weapons could be possible (probably via a new type of scroll, respawning hydras is illogical because you were supposed to kill all hydras on level, and restricting returning to the previous level would not solve the problem and cause the new ones IMO), but I don't think it's worth the trouble.
I have been playtesting the Halfling race, and it seems that they are a bit harder in the small game, but in the big game the balance seems OK, although they are much more time consuming than other races. Version 9.2 is out, with the following improvements (to the Halfling race):
- more stats for the Halflings
- special hydras in the big game will attack both twins at once (cunningly spliting their heads)
- some fixes with Ambidexterity
- twin FOV no longer gets mirrored for no reason
- halflings now have a vulnerability rule for Ettins
And using ambidexterity+knowledge/growth no longer causes your weapon stats to skyrocket.
EDIT: some more testing revealed that this race seems too easy. Changes in version 9.3:
- potions no longer affect both twins (and they now have to drink Ambi in pairs)
- if a hydra is under double attack, it chooses whom to attack yet more intelligently
- wounds from the second boss now appear in the log
- fixed two bugs with drinking Potion of Life when the twin is dead
- fixed a bug with a missing message when trying to go down after the twin's death
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I love how you keep updating the game. I should look into playing another round soon.
One thing I've wondered, by the way, was that, suppose you have two shields of the same color as the hydra, and the hydra only has 1 head. Would you heal?
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Thanks! No, having access to unlimited healing would be unbalancing, so the game should take care of this special case and the damage is reduced to 0, not to -1 ;) (Although maybe it would make sense to allow such healing, but only for a limited number of times.)
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Thanks! No, having access to unlimited healing would be unbalancing, so the game should take care of this special case and the damage is reduced to 0, not to -1 ;) (Although maybe it would make sense to allow such healing, but only for a limited number of times.)
Well, we might wonder how blocking a biting attack can heal you.
One scenario could be that because of the hydra bashing his head against your shield it bleeds, making it fit into your story of how drinking the beasts blood heals you. A limit could be reasoned by saying that hydra's aren't too stupid to keep hurting themselves or something. So that would heal you with one hp once for any hydra you'd get the chance to pull this off with. Considering the limited availability of shields, I can imagine doing this wouldn't be worth the while even for a troll, though.
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I was wondering if it would be possible to make it so the inventory screen could be navigated by using the arrow keys as well as the letter keys. Kinda like doomrl. So the player could use the up and down arrows to select the item to use. Personally, this is my preferred method of selecting items from an inventory screen. It also helps since I like playing roguelikes with a gamepad using xpadder.
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Sure, no reason not to add such a feature :). I suppose it would be also helpful to have e.g. [] keys cycle weapons? I'll add these in the next version anyway. Thanks!
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So... version 10.0 (http://roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php) is out, with the following features:
- Monsters and weapons now have long descriptions, which you can see from the 'f' screen, or for the current weapon by pressing 'v'.
- Two new nasty type of hydras, and a nasty variation for each of 10 basic types.
- One new weapon type.
- Direction keys can be now used for selection in some menus (inventory, troll inventory, race selection).
- Confirmation has been added when using an inventory item. (I sometimes press the wrong key, so I think a confirmation brings more good than harm.)
- You can now switch weapons by pressing '[' and ']'.
- Regrowth increased slightly in some cases (if hydra A is susceptible to weapon B, then hydra B is more resistant to weapon A).
- Shields now give extra resistance not when the color is matched, but when the shield resists the hydra color (e.g. flaming shield gives resistance to ice hydra attack). (Special shields work like they did.)
- Limited healing ability from shields (based on the discussion above).
- Bug fixes: ambiattack+decomposer, and ambiattack+twin.
- 0-headed vampires should no longer appear.
I hope there are no bugs ;)
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I'm sorry to say it, but there are bugs. Trying to examine a vampire crashes the game. I'm not sure about the other types of hydras.
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Fixed this. Also arch-hydras no longer aid their enemies.
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Took me a second to realize that only the letter in the inventory was being highlighted when using the arrow keys to select an item. Was expecting the whole item name to be highlighted. Works wonderfully though. Thanks.
The twin halflings are a bit confusing to use. Is there a way to name them both?
What is the TON button in the hall of fame screen?
Under the achievements screen, it says that I have managed to collapse 1000000 hydras in a single game and I managed to 1000000 hydras with a single power swipe. I don't know exactly what collapsing a hydra means, but I'm pretty sure I haven't done it to 1000000 hydras.
Are there any other ways to heal the player like a potion, scroll, or rune? Some other way besides just killing the hydras? If there is I must not have come across it yet.
Great game.
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The twin halflings are a bit confusing to use. Is there a way to name them both?
No, but it's a good idea for the next version. :)
What is the TON button in the hall of fame screen?
It just says that you can scroll the Hall of Fame by pressing keys T, O, and N. I was probably just too lazy to use arrows and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End there. Another change for the next version. :)
Under the achievements screen, it says that I have managed to collapse 1000000 hydras in a single game and I managed to 1000000 hydras with a single power swipe. I don't know exactly what collapsing a hydra means, but I'm pretty sure I haven't done it to 1000000 hydras.
I think I see the cause of this bug, so it should be fixed in the new version (also I have an idea for a new special enemy, and I see that I have forgotten to update the version number inside the game).
Are there any other ways to heal the player like a potion, scroll, or rune? Some other way besides just killing the hydras? If there is I must not have come across it yet.
Yes, there is a very rare Potion of Life (which appears at fixed locations in the game). But hydra blood needs to be your main source of healing. Contrary to most other roguelikes, in Hydra Slayer HP is your main resource that cannot be replenished easily, and to win, you need to consistently follow a good strategy which makes you take less wounds fighting Hydras than you get from slaying and Potions of Life. On the other hand, most mistakes in Hydra Slayer do not kill the slayer, but just have a high cost in HP (well, unless if you make a mistake while at low HP of course, then they kill the slayer), which makes it less forgiving than other roguelikes (while e.g. in ChessRogue and Darren Grey's games you have only 1 HP and one small mistake is enough for game over). (But there is one mistake whose HP cost is so high that it can kill you.)
Great game.
Thanks!
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Maybe eating mushrooms could heal 1 hp? That way it would provide a way to heal a very small amount of hp without unbalancing the game? And give the mushrooms a use besides simply being an extremely annoying pain in the tukhas.
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On the other hand, most mistakes in Hydra Slayer do not kill the slayer, but just have a high cost in HP (well, unless if you make a mistake while at low HP of course, then they kill the slayer), which makes it less forgiving than other roguelikes (while e.g. in ChessRogue and Darren Grey's games you have only 1 HP and one small mistake is enough for game over).
Haha, well, I guess different folks have different definitions of fun ;)
Hydra Slayer's cool by the way. And it's great to see it under such active development - I never expected an update after the first, but to be on your 10th major release already is very impressive.
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Legend, I don't think that is a good idea... walking around the level and eating mushrooms would be boring IMO. Maybe a special kind of "enemy" called Mushroom of Life, which has many heads, does not move nor attack, and is worth a lot of HP on destruction - but I don't see purpose for this. (Coming to think of it, maybe it could be used with Fungal Necromancy to create "live" zombies which do regrow heads...) I think we do not need an alternate way of healing. And mushrooms have enough uses for now (create bottlenecks, isolate hydras which you don't want to fight yet, provide extra heads for powerswipes/weaponcharges/elves/missiles, and Fungal Necromancy).
Thanks Darren! I don't mean that unforgiving is not fun :) I just point out that Hydra Slayer is somehow on an opposite pole. I think ChessRogue is one of the best roguelikes, and was one of my inspirations for HS 1.0 (the original ChessRogue was created in only three days and it was great, I wanted to repeat this). I never got very far in your games, but I think they are also very interesting.
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Legend, I don't think that is a good idea... walking around the level and eating mushrooms would be boring IMO
I really don't think anyone would spend the entire game running around and eating the mushrooms just cause they give 1 or 2 hp. I know I wouldn't. But if they were just there so if I was in a tight pinch, might be able to raise my hp just e little enough to survive a little longer by eating a few. Plus the hydras would still be chasing the player. And if the mushrooms are blocking off some hydra's, it still has a risk of letting them get you while you are trying to munch some shrooms. The mushrooms do nothing but piss me off to be honest. They are just in the way and it's a hassle to have to drop my weapon and pick it back up in order to get one out of my way if I don't have a dagger. Don't get me wrong, I do see their purpose in the game for the most part. They just really annoy me personally.
provide extra heads for powerswipes/weaponcharges/elves/missiles, and Fungal Necromancy
I don't really understand that. How do they really benefit powerswipes/weaponcharges/elves/missiles, and Fungal Necromancy? What is fungal necromancy?
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Legend, Fungal Necromancy is a rune (which you have not probably not found yet), and as for others... well, find it out yourself (it is most useful for missiles). I still don't understand your idea about eating mushrooms...
OK, the new version (10.2):
- A new special enemy
- You can now name twins individually from the main menu
- Stats for the new special enemies from 10.0 and 10.2 are available
- Hall of Fame now can be scrolled just like everything else
- Hopefully the bug with weird achievements is fixed
Again I hope nothing is broken :)
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My idea was simply to let the player gain 1 or maybe 2 hp by eating mushrooms. If you are worried about the player abusing it, maybe there could be a chance that the mushroom is poisoned instead of healing and take away a little life. Or maybe the potion that lets you make a trail of mushrooms would only spawn the poison ones so that way the player couldn't keep spawning mushrooms to heal themselves.
Was also hoping there would be a simpler way to take out the mushrooms by maybe kicking or stomping them. It's pretty inconvenient to have to drop your weapon, take out the mushroom, and then pick your weapon back up if you don't have a weapon with a value of 1 to get the mushroom out o the way.
Shurikens seem a little out of place thematically. Maybe throwing stones, blades disks, or a boomerang?
I still like your game either way. Just giving some ideas/opinions.
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Not to get greedy with the interface requests/suggestions, but I was wondering if it would be possible to navigate the other screens with the arrow keys as well? Like the end screen when you press "q" and the title screen. I know you can use the arrow keys to select the player race, but not the other options. Maybe use left and right arrows to choose the player race and the up/down arrows to choose from the other options like quit, player/character name, etc. Would probably need to add a "Start game" option too in order to use the enter key to make selections. Also for the high score screen.
Also wondering if it would be possible to use the escape key to exit out of all the menus, for "q", and for "no" when the game confirms when you want to use an item. Pressing enter is the same as "yes" but "n" is the only way to select "no". Escape already seems to exit out of most the screens, but not all. It exits out of the inventory screen, but only if you press it twice for some reason.
Was also hoping that for the inventory screen, maybe the player could press "i" for item info and Esc to exit the inventory instead of pressing "h" for item info and "i" to exit. Mostly to cut out one extra key to use. Most other roguelikes also use Esc to exit out of inventory too.
Is the fungal necromancy potion the same as the mushroom spore one? I still haven't found it. The health potion still eludes me as well.
I think the elf is my favorite race so far. Mostly because of the bow. Can the bow be found in the levels for other races to use as well? I haven't found one yet. Just curious.
Haven't really found much use for the shields yet. They have to be the equipped slot in order to have any affect? But you can't use them to damage the hydras?
Thanks again for a great and unique roguelike.
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If the mushroom have a chance of poisoning the eater, then the result is that it is either useless to do this (if they give more damage than health on average), grant a minor but helpful benefit for doing tedious work (if they give slightly more health), or unbalancing (if they give substantial amount of health). Thus I don't see a purpose for this.
Why are shurikens out of place? I think a shuriken with 4 blades is the natural choice for a missile weapon which can cut 4 heads at once. Throwing stones would have to be a thrown blunt weapon. Boomerangs would be more out of place than shurikens, I think.
BTW I would like to have a broad selection of weapons, but each weapon type would need to have a specific mathematical rule which makes sense for that type of weapon. I have idea for thrown stones (I think they would need some extra property to be useful), blade disk (alternative type of a missile blade), and axe. I would like to have spears/tridents/etc, but no idea for a rule for them.
Elves can just shoot the mushrooms with their bow, so mushrooms are not a nuisance for them. For other races, IMO it is a good idea anyway to always carry a dagger (and it seems that other players agree with that).
I think you use the title screen and the 'q' screen too rarely to require the arrow navigation there.
In yes/no prompts, space is also interpreted as 'no'. (And also it exits some menus IIRC.)
The problem with the ESC key is that on some operating systems it seems to be interpreted specially, that's why it sometimes does not work. Can be fixed, yes.
It is impossible to find a bow, you need to be an Elf and bring it yourself.
Shields give protection as long as you have them in your inventory, and can be used as a weapon (a stunner, but usually much weaker than real stunners). I have posted a spoiler about shields previously in this thread.
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If the mushroom have a chance of poisoning the eater, then the result is that it is either useless to do this (if they give more damage than health on average), grant a minor but helpful benefit for doing tedious work (if they give slightly more health), or unbalancing (if they give substantial amount of health). Thus I don't see a purpose for this.
I see your points. It was just a suggestion/idea and not really necessary. I do wish the healing potions were a little more common though.
Why are shurikens out of place? I think a shuriken with 4 blades is the natural choice for a missile weapon which can cut 4 heads at once. Throwing stones would have to be a thrown blunt weapon. Boomerangs would be more out of place than shurikens, I think.
I meant the shurikens seem out of place because when I think of hydras, I think of Greece and when I think of shurikens, I think of Japan. You're right about the stones, guess I wasn't really thinking on that one. lol. A boomerang can be bladed and multiple use cause it comes back to you. Even though they didn't originate from greece either. Bladed disks are vague enough where they could fit in most settings I think.
I think you use the title screen and the 'q' screen too rarely to require the arrow navigation there.
I respectfully disagree on that one. Most players die rather frequently in most roguelikes (at least myself) and have to revisit these screen fairly often. I usually play several games in a row depending on how far I get or long I last. I obviously don't know exactly how hard it is to implement the arrow key navigation, but if it's not too difficult, I for one would really appreciate it.
In yes/no prompts, space is also interpreted as 'no'. (And also it exits some menus IIRC.)
The problem with the ESC key is that on some operating systems it seems to be interpreted specially, that's why it sometimes does not work. Can be fixed, yes.
I didn't know that. Wouldn't necessarily have to be the escape key then. I guess if the "q" key can be used to exit out of every secondary menu and to use as an alternative to "n". Just like to use the same key for all canceling.
Shields give protection as long as you have them in your inventory, and can be used as a weapon (a stunner, but usually much weaker than real stunners). I have posted a spoiler about shields previously in this thread.
Sorry. Must have missed that post.
Elves can just shoot the mushrooms with their bow, so mushrooms are not a nuisance for them. For other races, IMO it is a good idea anyway to always carry a dagger (and it seems that other players agree with that).
I know the elves can shoot them. It's just kind of a pain to have to always carry a dagger for the other races especially when only able to carry such a small number of weapons at a time.
BTW I would like to have a broad selection of weapons, but each weapon type would need to have a specific mathematical rule which makes sense for that type of weapon. I have idea for thrown stones (I think they would need some extra property to be useful), blade disk (alternative type of a missile blade), and axe. I would like to have spears/tridents/etc, but no idea for a rule for them.
Maybe an axe could divide a hydra into two? so a 6 hydra would become two 3 hydras? I think of the axe being used to split something down the middle. A trident might be able to do 1/3 of damage to whatever hydra it is used against instead of a specific number. Can't really think of anything for the spear except for maybe letting the player attack at longer range of maybe one space away, but that's not really a mathematical rule.
Hydra slayer really didn't look that appealing to me at first, but since I have tried it, it has become one of my favorite roguelikes along side Crawl, Frozen Depths, and Rogue.
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There are weapons which do division, probably you have not found them yet :) The idea about an axe splitting a hydra in two is interesting, but I don't see how it would be of practical use (you will probably need to see more to judge it yourself). But maybe it could be improved somehow...
Thanks for the good words, although I think you have not reached deep into the Hydras Nest yet :)
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I think of an axe splitting a hydra in two as useful if say you encounter a hydra with more heads than you can manage with the rest of your weapons. Maybe you can't take out a single 10 headed hydra, but you could handle two 5 headed hydras.
I think you have not reached deep into the Hydras Nest yet
True, think my best is about level 9 or 10 so far. But I usually only have small spurts of free time to play. Still feel the same about the interface requests though. :P And still one of my new favorite roguelikes. Definitely my favorite of the more abstract ones.
Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.
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Maybe you can't take out a single 10 headed hydra, but you could handle two 5 headed hydras.
The early ~10 headed hydras are not that relevant to the balancing. You'll find out when you encounter the first boss.
Anyway, such an axe wouldn't be any good really. Wouldn't fit into the context. Hydras regrow heads, not legs. I don't see them hopping around on two or one leg either.
It wouldn't be useful either. Just imagine encountering a 40-headed hydra. If you take a peek at a spoiler explaining the wounding system, you'd instantly see that 1 40-headed hydra deals much less damage per turn than two 20-headed hydras or 4 10-headed hydras.
The basic /2 divisor already fulfills that axe role without multiplying the number of hydras you have to fight.
Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.
That's a good idea. How about something like "You get a strange feeling of satisfaction."?
Z, I also have my own paired feature request. Please include the background stories' text in the game. Pressing '?' at the main menu or something should bring us there.
Also, please add something to the story explaining what ettins(a kind of giant) are doing in the hydra pit. Are they outcasts(read: emo kids) seeking refuge with other multiheaded creatures or something?
- Shields now give extra resistance not when the color is matched, but when the shield resists the hydra color (e.g. flaming shield gives resistance to ice hydra attack). (Special shields work like they did.)
- Limited healing ability from shields (based on the discussion above).
;D
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Another feature request: Scrolls of blinking. Nagas in tight situations will thank their god Z for including them in the game.
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Bug report: I was playing as a naga, I acquired a bunch of sapphire blunt weapons, values 11, 10 and 2, and I wanted to reforge them. The expected result should be that I get a blunt weapon with value 17. Instead it said "The sapphire great flail is reforged!" and everything remained the same.
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Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.
I am not sure about this. On one hand it makes you satisfied after finishing your job on a given level. On the other hand, you lose some excitement if you know that there won't be any more hydras behind the mushrooms. But probably yes, it is worth it.
Z, I also have my own paired feature request. Please include the background stories' text in the game. Pressing '?' at the main menu or something should bring us there.
Also, please add something to the story explaining what ettins(a kind of giant) are doing in the hydra pit. Are they outcasts(read: emo kids) seeking refuge with other multiheaded creatures or something?
OK, I'll add the background story to the main menu (when I have time). I'll try to think about some story for ettins.
Another feature request: Scrolls of blinking. Nagas in tight situations will thank their god Z for including them in the game.
A naga in a tight situation can use a potion of speed or two to escape. (Note that a naga has a speed of 1/2*2*2 = 2 after drinking two potions of speed.) I don't want to include a scroll of blinking, since (a) I want all things to be as original as possible, (b) the game mechanics are currently deterministic; maybe this is not a very important rule, but a scroll of random blinking is not a good enough reason to change that, (c) I love it when your 16000-headed fire zombie blocks a corridor by fighting a 50-headed fire hydra and you can do nothing about that :), (d) I think that Nagas are already one of the easier races.
Bug report:
I will try to look into that... Thanks!
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Spoiler Alert:
Thanks for the laughs. I loved the three-headed monkey. However, he (and ettins, too, I suppose) is not clever enough to dodge a freshly raised hydra. Is this the intended behaviour?
The bug with the sapphire blunt weapons I mentioned earlier also bugs out on swords. I hope that narrows down your search a bit.
Good job on all the descriptions, by the way. They really make the game much more graphical.
Was also wondering if maybe there could be a message that lets you know when you clear out all the hydras. Maybe colored text.
I am not sure about this. On one hand it makes you satisfied after finishing your job on a given level. On the other hand, you lose some excitement if you know that there won't be any more hydras behind the mushrooms. But probably yes, it is worth it.
There can always be loot behind the mushrooms, so it's not like we'd stop exploring the level, we'd just know it's safe to cut corners while doing so.
I'll try to think about some story for ettins.
I forgot about checking the in-game description. Perhaps you already did.
I understand about the blinking. How about a potion of "remote self-regrowth" then? ^^
Just kidding.
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Thanks! :)
Regarding the black text: I want special monsters to force you to lose something (otherwise they would not be a challenge and would make no sense). For example, in case of ettins, you should either lose lots of HP by fighting them with a dagger, or one of your resources, or one of your weapon slots by carrying a machette everywhere, or the ettin's weapon by deciding not to fight. Your method seems to use up a rare resource, so I think it does not disrupt the balance.
The bug with the ambi+reduction combo seems serious then, but I will look into it when I have time.
The ettins of course have a description, but it does not contain the particular part you have requested (it does not describe how they got to Hydras Nest, it just describes why they stay there), so I thought you meant that.
I have a more original idea about a teleport device, but it would be a rare wand with a limited number of uses (and use up an equipment slot).
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OK, the new version is out!
- Fixed the bug with ambi+reforging combo (which was probably there for some time, I have not changed it for a long time)
- Five new equipment items (axes, spears, thrown rocks, and two rare types)
- Ettin description updated
- help ('?') now includes the background story
- Better debug mode (shift+I to access lots of weapons, or items for trolls)
- Giant weapons no longer guaranteed (but more varied)
- Messages after completing levels
- Results of ambi-attacks are now displayed in an user-friendly way
- Charging now also works with blades other than the normal ones (e.g. dancing)
Quite a lot of changes for the new weapon types, so bugs are likely, I think. If you find anything illogical or working in a different way than in a previous version, please report :)
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Version 11.1 is out, although not much many improvements this time:
- I forgot to implement one feature of the new special item from the previous version (although I have described it), fixed now (also works a bit differently than was described)
- you now see targetting lines when using missiles etc
- Help now states that you can press TAB to erase character names
I have not added arrow navigation of start/quit menus as Legend suggested (if you don't name your start character the start menu can be already navigated with arrows, if you do then you have to use the keyboard anyway; you also probably have to press a key anyway to enter the quit menu; using arrows for options in the Hall of Fame seems to be too much work to be worth it)
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Just curious if you were planning on adding anymore races? I think a viking race would be kinda cool. You don't see them that often and might fit with how dierse your current group of races are. I know a viking is technically human, but just a thought. Maybe they can start out with axes (if you implement them) and have a berserk ability? Would also go in theme with the runes.
Also was thinking about the boomerang. Maybe it could be a blunt ranged weapon used for stunning like zelda? And since their path of travel curves, it could make sense that they could stun more than one head. And of course it would come back to you.
I have not added arrow navigation of start/quit menus as Legend suggested... using arrows for options in the Hall of Fame seems to be too much work to be worth it)
I can see the arrow navigation really not being very necessary for the Hall of fame. Still hoping for the start/quit menus though. Especially the quit menu. Actually if I had to pick one of the three, it would be the quit menu. Sorry for beating the dead horse. ;D
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No problem with adding new races, enemies, equipment, or items, but I must like them :)
Axes are already in 11.0. How would such a berserk ability work exactly? I think Minotaur would be a better race for HS than Viking, and berserk, using axes, and visiting mazes fit them.
A boomerang would have to be something interesting (and at the same neither too powerful nor too weak). If it is just a stunner that works from a distance, or a poorer version of the Elvish bow, then I think it's not interesting enough. It should follow some interesting curved trajectory, and do a reasonable amount of damage to hydras on this trajectory.
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I suppose a minotaur does fit the theme better naturally. I just thought a viking would be a little cooler since you don't see them very often in roguelikes (except in Ragnarok) and they are pretty badass I think. I know DCSS has Minotaurs. The reasoning for a viking being there could be that he traveled from far away because he heard of the hydra problem and came to slay them to help and for personal glory so he can return to his homeland a hero with great deeds to tell.
Don't have any real ideas for how berserk would work. Maybe if the player can kiil so many hydras in a certain amount of turns, there is a chance he will go berserk? And the player has to continue to kill hydras quickly in succession in order to remain berserk. Berserking could lessen the damage that the player takes and maybe take off an extra head?
Just thought the boomerang might be a cool idea. Don't know if there is already ranged stunning weapon since I have yet to find one so far. Can't think of any specific cool ideas for a boomerang that would be that interesting off hand right now. Maybe if one edge was bladed so it could do a combo of cutting off one head and stunning another? Not sure if that would be considered over powered or not though. Maybe it could have a shorter range than the others since it returns and to make up for it maybe being too powerful?
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After thinking a bit about inconvenencies of playing roguelikes on laptops (hard to move diagonally, you need to either buy an external numpad, use the inconvenient layout, or learn the VI diagonals) and handheld devices I have decided to implement a new feature in Hydra Slayer.
In version 11.2, before the start of game you can choose your geometry, which can be:
- 8-directional, as in a traditional roguelike
- 4-directional, for laptop users and other people who find it hard to use 8 directions
- 6-directional, that is, a hex grid
Changing geometry changes the way the dungeons are generated and possible moves of both you and hydras. Thus, you can use 4-directional mode on a laptop without being owned by 8-directional hydras, or being unable to get into some part of the level. Hex-based mode is displayed with each second cell, thus the hex-based levels are smaller than normal ones (but contain the same amount of objects). On the other hand, more space means that we can always display the exact number of heads ;)
The difficulty of the game probably varies a bit depending on the geometry, but I think it's OK that you can play several slightly different games now. :)
Another new feature is that the ESC key should successfully exit menus now (the implementation of input has been changed, but this should be only visible internally). And there is a "Call monster" command in debug mode, instead of automatically creating lots of special enemies. But that's not important.
Hope it works :)
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That's awesome that you made different control design options for those of us using laptops. I would guess that it's a first for a roguelike. Hope more developers take laptop users into consideration in the future.
t he lack of numberpad on my laptop is what got me into using a gamepad for some roguelikes such as hydra slayer, frozen depths, and doomrl. Using the gamepad is what led to the arrow key navigation requests too.
Probably going to stick to 8 way directions with gamepad though since I lack not only a number pad, but a proper desk as well to sit comfortably at and utilize the keys while playing.
But I think it is an absolutely fantastic idea.
Is the vi setup still available? What keys are used in hex mode?
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Yeah. Seems lots of people use laptops as their main computers nowadays. I think it makes it slightly harder to introduce them to roguelikes if they need to learn some strange control scheme, like arrows plus these weirdly placed 4 extra buttons, VI keys, or having to use Fn for all moves. From my preliminary testing it seems that Hydra Slayer works well in any of three geometries, the things that change is the size of the dungeon (smaller in hex, larger in ortho since you need more moves to get to places) and how hard it is to get surrounded by hydras (I have not noticed a noticeable effect there, but probably it's just because the RNG did not create such a situation). Thus, it makes sense to adapt the game (conducting an interesting experiment on the way) to them instead of forcing them to adapt to the game.
Yes, VI keys still work, and they still mean the same direction, except that I have tried to give other meaning if their usual direction is unavailable in given geometry (while unused numpad directions just do nothing). Thus, pressing J and K is the hex mode goes right (so you can use YUBNHJ for movement, which is only slightly unnatural I think), and pressing YUBN in the 4-directional mode goes straight up or down instead of diagonally.
A small update (version 11.2a): Space key now skips a turn (using '.' for doing nothing together with arrow keys felt awkward on a laptop), and J key used in hex mode now moves to the right, not to the left (for the reason described above).
It's interesting how skipping turns is actually essential in the 4-directional mode (while in 8-directional I almost never do that, since I can get the first strike by just moving to the side).
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I was curious, is there or will there be a way to designate which control scheme to use by default instead of having to pick at the beginning of each game? Like a config setting or a command line comment kinda like how you can always have the same player name by using the command line like you described here:
To set a default character and player name, run e.g. "hydra.exe cCharacter uLegend" (BTW you can press Tab or Esc while editing the name to erase "Administrator") (the information about command line options is shown when you try to use them (run "hydra -h" or something), although it might be difficult to see on Windows)
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The thing is, unless you are very careful, there are serious balance differences between 4-directional and 8-directional movement. Especially if creatures can only meelée attack along movement vectors. 8-directional vs. 4-directional movement could double consequences of getting caught in the open for example.
It's nice to have the option, but you may find that if you balance it for 4-directional, it becomes impossible on 8-directional, or that all player guides say "NEVER use 8-directional movement." In that case it's not really an option any more.
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Legend: yes, such an option would be a good idea. I have thought about that, I think I have not added it because command line options are undocumented. Maybe I should just document them (and also the option to change the geometry by pressing Space, 4, 6, or 8, and what's the geometry about in general).
Bear, I probably should test it a bit more to be sure, but I think it's the same things that happen when adding new races or classes: they give advantages and disadvantages (both in terms of challenge and being interesting in general), and it is usually not obvious whether the net effect is positive or negative. If it turns out to be seriously negative, then we can always tweak the game in order to remove the effect. Whether it's race, class, or geometry, it's the player's preference of what style they choose. Options do not have to be equally challenging, they just should all be interesting.
While consequences of getting caught in the open do matter in Hydra Slayer (I remember situations where I have been attacked by several hydras at once and had to use interesting strategies to deal with that, like stunning some of them with powerful weapons so that they act like roadblocks), I think the challenge in Hydra Slayer comes mostly from (on low level) using the equipment you have to slay hydras effectively, and (on high level) creating equipment which allows that. Both of these are not affected by geometry (except if you are a heavy user of missiles), and thus I think that game remains good after changing the geometry, you just lose some things and gain some other things.
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OK, version 11.3 released with the following changes:
- Fixed bugs with ambidexterity which sometimes caused the number of stunned heads to be calculated incorrectly, or allowed attacks which required more active heads than available (these bugs with ambi seem very hard to find...)
- Hydras were too bad at noticing you in the 4-directional mode, now they are actually better than in other modes (as a counterbalance for the fact that it was a bit easier to avoid being attacked by multiple hydras)
- Help now includes a section about command line options and geometry
- Removed some debug messages from the previous version
- 'A' option in the debug mode revives you in addition to solving the level
- A weird secret available by pressing an undocumented key (an Easter egg, so to say)
I have tested the balance of the 4-directional mode (specifically, how hard is it to avoid being attacked by multiple hydras), and it seems similar to 8-directional after the modification. (Although only a few levels, and my equipment was also not very good.)
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The 4-way mode sounds like a cool idea. The only imbalancing thing I can think about it is the FOV. In 4-way mode you essentially can see further - the time it takes to reach something on the edge of vision is up to twice as long (and similarly the time it takes them to reach you, allowing you to run or shoot for longer). You may want to change the FOV to a diamond shape in 4-way mode to compensate.
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I think the problem you mention is already solved by increasing the hydras' smell range instead of players' sight range. In Hydra Slayer it is assumed that PC can see very far, so the shape of FOV is almost only based on the shape of dungeon and the presence of mushrooms (LOS is blocked by two mushrooms). Almost only, because the sight range is 64 and the size of a level is only 50. So the distance is never a problem for FOV on a normal level, but deep in the Hydras Pit you find levels which wrap around, and it is possible that you don't see something because it is too far away on such levels.
A strange thing about the current FOV in the 4-directional mode is that you can currently see in 8 directions, so if two rooms have a common corner, you can see through the corner, but not go through it. This is a bit strange, but I think also interesting, so there is no reason to remove it, I think. (Except that you cannot see this when playing through NotEye's 3D mode, but I don't think this mode is important.)
However, hydras detect the player in a completely different method than the other way around (they will follow the player if the distance (measured as the number of steps) is smaller than their smell range, which is based on the number of heads and some random factor). I have made the smell range bigger in 4-directional mode, in order to compensate for the greater distances. Without this increase it was easier to avoid being attacked by multiple hydras and to see a hydra without being noticed by it, and hopefully this is fixed now.
Note that in 4-dir mode you are allowed to shoot in 4 dirs anyway, so missile tactics are changed too :)
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Version 12.0 is released! (http://roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php)
- three new artifacts (spoiler: sub divisor, golden sector, witch's broom)
- one new special monster (shadow hydra)
- Power Swipe is now much more powerful if used with a divisor or similar artifact; as a counterbalance it is also rarer (I had a feeling that Power Swipes were a rather useless resource in late game, now they are quite powerful)
- ivy-hydras and arch-hydras now use the best possible strategy of regrowth/shrinking (well, the best according to the Potion of Knowledge, without taking Ambidexterity into account for speed); as a side effect, the Potion of Knowledge gives meaningful results for these hydras; they also prepare their strategy only once now (unless something changes)
- the vorpal blade now gives a HP reward if you slay hydras using only the vorpal blade. Also it no longer grows when fighting coaligned hydras (it was too easy to create giant hydras this way)
- potion of knowledge's display is now a bit more user friendly, and it also displays the health bonus
- renamed obsidian weapons to meteorite (should be more logical now: meteorite is frequently used in fantasy for weapons slaying particular monsters, its rarity is more reasonable, and also the fact that alien hydras resist meteorite weapons is more logical than for obsidian)
- variable geometry mode (made for myself to test game balance, but someone else might want to use it too)
- improved debug mode comand 'Call' (you can now enter the head count, and also summon plain hydras)
- rebalanced the probabilities of finding artifacts a bit
- rune of growth works slightly more reasonably when hydra impossible to slay or too big
- bugfix: no more messages when out-of-sight hydras are fighting
- bugfix: no message when recharging the wand (also more rechargeable now)
- bugfix: arch-hydras were weak to a wrong shield type
- bugfix (11.3a): keypad did not work in Windows
- bugfix: stairless dungeon levels were sometimes created in the hex mode
- ui: big divisors now have names
- ui: when examining meteorite weapons, info about regrowth is no longer shown
- ui: impossible ambidexterity attacks no longer show the result
- ui: one stat was displayed incorrectly in the log file
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Hydra Slayer version 12.4 released! (http://roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php)
Not much many changes there, this version just includes changes from the Android version, but here you are:
- Auto-explore command
- Fixed a bug with vampire hydras and analyzer (i.e. potion of knowledge): it can now recommend you to "wait" (let it hit you and gain new heads) or "long wait" (no heads gained, but all heads are awakened)
- Some cosmetic changes to the interface (e.g. the name "Halfling Twins" was too long, it's just "Twins" now)
- Some algorithms have been improved for efficiency
- They also have been written more clearly (shield protection, hydra analyzer) - (although the hydra analyzer is still a bit messy)
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Due tu a forgotten edit all lower levels in the recent versions included Shadow Hydras (and no other special enemies). This has been fixed in Version 12.5.
Also auto-explore mode now works with a missile equipped, fixed bugs with Elves wielding divisors and standing next to mushrooms, and shadow hydras now ignore arrows.
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Due to new features of NotEye (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/noteye.php), the graphical version of Hydra Slayer has been improved. You can now control movement and switch weapons using mouse, and use the tiles also in the hex mode.
Version 12.9 also includes a minor bugfix (last help screen was not displayed correctly) and a minor change (when a monster A kills another monster B, B's HP bonus does not go directly to you; instead, it is transferred to A's health bonus, so you need to kill A to get it).
link (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php)
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I'd like to report a bug: When you ambidextrously kill a hydra with an axe and a regular weapon, the hydra may come back to life with its regenerated but stunned heads.
By the way, the new weapons look exciting.
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Thanks! I'll check that later. Hard to get ambidexterity right as there are lots of special cases...
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Hydra Slayer version 13.0 (http://roguetemple.com/z/hydra.php) released!
This version of Hydra Slayer introduces bloody hydras, which are just like normal hydras, except that you don't know their type, resistances, or susceptibilities. Two of them should appear before the first boss, and more should appear randomly later.
Additionally, Potions of Knowledge can now provide "real" information instead of just hints: they can fully identify bloody hydras, and suggest three first attacks when you are under a shadow hydra attack.
The graphical (NotEye) version has been updated. Whole game should be mouse controllable now (this includes all the menus, and all gameplay actions). Also the hydra slayer picture is now displayed in the main menus, hydra list has been moved to the top left corner in the FPP mode, and the hex mode is centered better. Hopefully mouse control will be helpful to newbies, for advanced players keyboard should be much more convenient.
Also the bug repoted by sbluen above has been fixed, and Trollish inventory now displays free keys even if the inventory is almost empty (potentially helpful for mouse users).
I have not tested it very thoroughly, but I hope there are no big bugs.
As a side result there has been a minor update to NotEye, too.
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Good deal on the continuing progress, especially NotEye! 8)
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Hola! I love Hydra Slayer and had just a couple of thoughts for features that might be interesting to think about.
The 'board' plays a variable role in gameplay. Sometimes it's important, sometimes it isn't. It might be interesting to include missile-like weapons (spells?) that strike in a pattern on the board, but require that each space it strikes must be occupied. Or something along those lines.
Another thing that may be interesting is to begin the game with only a few elements to consider and procedurally generate more elements with new relationships. Potions of knowledge may be necessary to learn about the properties of new elements.
Also, a weapon type that auto-transmutes itself on hit could be interesting so long as it was predictable.
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Hola! I love Hydra Slayer and had just a couple of thoughts for features that might be interesting to think about.
Thanks! How far have you gone so far?
The 'board' plays a variable role in gameplay. Sometimes it's important, sometimes it isn't. It might be interesting to include missile-like weapons (spells?) that strike in a pattern on the board, but require that each space it strikes must be occupied. Or something along those lines.
There is nothing exactly like what you describe, but there are several types of weapons, potions, and racial powers which affect a line or a circle. For example, throwing stars (M4 etc) can hit several hydras on a line, and blade disks can hit only one, but the number of heads cut depends on the distance.
Another thing that may be interesting is to begin the game with only a few elements to consider and procedurally generate more elements with new relationships. Potions of knowledge may be necessary to learn about the properties of new elements.
Could you elaborate on that? The game already gives you more and more elements as you descedent the Hydras Nest. In the later game (after the first boss) you occassionally find artifacts with unique and powerful effects, and it is worth it to incorporate them into your weapon set; but it is random where and whether you find these artifacts.
Also, a weapon type that auto-transmutes itself on hit could be interesting so long as it was predictable.
Indeed, that could be interesting. Especially that they would give yet another purpose for mushrooms (especially big patches of them). Thanks!
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Not very far...
I have experienced a few of the AOE/beam weapons and like them- I was just reminded of the calc ability from FFT, and how it seems somehow very appropriate for a game like Hydra Slayer. The calc ability from FFT does things like, 'Hit every 5 squares.' I wouldn't recommend that sort of all encompassing pattern for HS, but a 'spell' type of attack could have a randomly generated or not-explicitly logical set of squares it effects in a designated radius around the user in a variety of ways.
Consider the following-
.....
..X..
..@.X
.....
X....
edit: Code didn't preserve spacing... but you get the idea.
A weapon that only effects the squares above when activated/thrown. It could seem somewhat pointless- but the player may be able to take advantage of board manipulation and mushroom pots to create situations where they're able to use these sort of abilities extremely effective.
To make it more interesting, consider alternative effects and mixed elements. Within a 5x5 area around the player, each square might be affected by a different element. It could add some depth in regards to managing groups of enemies or treating multiple enemies as a single enemy.
Are there ways to split a hydra in two? That could also be interesting.
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I think you could base an interesting game on this idea, but Hydra Slayer is complex enough without this...
Splitting a hydra into two was already discussed in this thread (it would be rather a bad idea because 2N-headed hydra is usually much less dangerous than two N-headed ones, and also having two hydras of the same color would cause problems with the Rune of Conflict, although that could be solved). There are Bisectors and similar weapons later, but the idea is a bit different.
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Hmmm. Nice game.
Managed to finish it as an Echnida. On-demand ambidexterity is incredibly useful, used right.
Hydra Slayer v14.5 character log for Echidna CCC (CCC)
Game saved.
Items found and used:
Powder of Stunning (13/18)
Powder of Decapitation (11/15)
Powder of Cancellation (0/22)
Powder of Growth (0/32)
Powder of Conflict (0/13)
Some powders I just didn't need.
Powder of Fungification (7/10)
Powder of Fungal Necromancy (1/10)
I used the powder of fungal necromancy shortly after using two powders of fungification. I ended up with a zombie were-hydra with over a thousand heads.
...who immediately got into a fight with a hydra that gained more heads than it lost per zombie-hydra attack. Did not work out well.
Scroll of Transmutation (1/30)
Scroll of the Big Stick (48/52)
Scroll of Reforging (7/9)
Scrolls of the big stick are very useful.
Potion of Power Swipe (0/11)
Potion of Weapon Charge (0/6)
Potion of Extreme Speed (17/17)
I couldn't get a weapon back from a three-headed monkey without drinking two of these, due to the Echnida's slow speed.
Potion of Knowledge (3/14)
Potion of Power Juice (8/8)
Potion of Mushroom Spores (0/20)
Potion of Ambidexterity (7/14)
Only used to apply the Big Stick to multiple weapons at once.
Potion of Life (2/2)
Had to drink the second one shortly after finishing the small game. Had to drink the first one before the Ancient Hydra level.
No items used on the ancient hydra level - congratulations!
Costs of winning the small game:
462 wounds
4427$ of inventory items used up
280 mutation score
(when slaying each hydra, you get +1 for each extra arm)
4 items used against the boss
(including permanent effects of BS/L/PJ obtained on previous levels)
109 wounds from the ancient hydra attacks
Costs of winning the big game:
4197 wounds
20688$ of inventory items used up
2905 mutation score
57 wounds from the ancient dragon attacks
Various stats:
4197 total wounds (383 of 1024 HP left)
31213 total turns (hydra movements)
30164 total seconds of real time
four-directional movement
50 levels solved
1 times saved a game
9700 moves suggested by auto-explore
10 vulture hydras have been killed
13 unhonorable attacks against mighty vultures
Stun and decapitate. The only way to deal with vulture hydras.
4 giants were killed
6 monkeys were killed
1 monkeys were left alive
145 wounds from armed attacks
If the monkeys wouldn't insist on stealing my biggest weapon, I wouldn't mind them so much.
4 ivy hydras were killed
Usually via fungification. They're half-plant already, right?
2 arch-hydras were killed
In one hit each. These were easy - the number of heads was only two digits.
10 alien hydras have been killed
These, on the other hand, were a pain; I had mainly meteorite weapons. My strategy was to pump them up to the next perfect square, then use my Storm Eradicator along with enough other stuff to wipe them out in one hit. (I got some massive one-hit kills that way).
9 dragons were killed.
They can shoot through mushrooms!
2 shadow hydras killed
48 wounds from shadow hydras
One killed by a potion of knowledge (drank the potion, killed in in two hits) and one by fungification.
7 ambidextrous uses of scrolls of big stick and transmutation
Various head stats:
54 heads regrown by vulture hydras while attacking
43586 heads stunned by Powder of Stunning
20 heads grown by Ivy Hydras
3 heads teleported away by Arch-Hydras
2 heads of hydras slain only with a vorpal blade (+2 HP) 9682 mushroom heads auto-removed by auto-explore
I think you may be missing an end-of-line there.
Records:
841 max hydra one-shotted
An alien hydra, using an Eradicator and a few other weapons at once. My previous maximum was 729 - also an alien hydra. (Well. Two seperate alien hydras).
2 max speed drank at once
Catching up to a monkey while trying not to get hit.
Attack types used:
normal blade: max 26, to win 12, 811 uses, 6684 enemy heads, 29 kills, 179 mushroom heads, 68 destroyed, 16 heads regrown
meteorite blade: max 15, to win 2, 2352 uses, 8138 enemy heads, 11 kills, 1155 mushroom heads, 139 destroyed, 16 heads regrown
blunt weapon: max 7, 64 uses
divisor: max 16, to win 10, 421 uses, 1142327 enemy heads, 7 heads regrown
eradicator: max 2, 85 uses, 12342 enemy heads
missile: max 4, 2 uses, 4 enemy heads, 4 mushroom heads, 3 heads regrown
1 total hydras hit by your missiles
zombie: max 12, 0 uses, 685 enemy heads, 437 heads regrown
1174 total mushroom heads converted to zombie heads
non-zombie hydras: max 13, 0 uses, 1218 enemy heads, 1 kills, 38 heads regrown
ambidexterity: 904 uses, 1171154 enemy heads, 459 kills, 457 mushroom heads, 48 destroyed, 2966 heads regrown, 261 stunned heads cut
3271 one-hand hits used in ambidextrous attacks
pickaxe: 12 uses, 12 walls
Testing it out, on the floor I picked it up on. Ended up leaving it there.
primeslayer: 2 uses
I have no idea where the size limit for this is, but every time I used it, it failed (even though the number was prime). I used the Scroll of the Big Stick on it a couple of times, to no apparent use, and ended up leaving it behind later.
vorpal: max 8, 449 uses, 5 enemy heads, 2 kills, 517 mushroom heads, 104 destroyed
Picked up a vorpal meteorite blade. Picked it up to use instead of the meteorite dagger, so as to gain a minor health benefit from one-headed hydras.
axe: max 16, 146 uses, 6 enemy heads, 1 kills
Weapons at the end:
meteorite vorpal dagger (V1, from Level 33)
449 uses, 5 enemy heads, 2 kills, 517 mushroom heads, 104 destroyed
meteorite machete (-2, obtained by reforging, from Level 8)
567 uses, 22 enemy heads, 4 kills, 122 mushroom heads, 29 destroyed
meteorite shortsword (-4, obtained by reforging, from Level 15)
425 uses, 20 enemy heads, 1 kills, 76 mushroom heads, 12 destroyed
meteorite double sword (-8, obtained by reforging, from Level 26)
240 uses, 16 enemy heads, 1 kills, 16 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 16 heads regrown
This should tell you a lot about my strategy.
Meteorite Quad Bisector (/16, obtained by reforging, from Level 23)
132 uses
Storm Eradicator (R2, from Level 12)
85 uses
Meteorite Trisector (/3, obtained by reforging, from Level 41)
55 uses
meteorite three-handed sword (-15, obtained by reforging, from Level 21)
269 uses, 12 enemy heads, 1 kills
Didn't want to make this bigger - with another Power Juice, I could reforge another divisor and take down even bigger hydras quickly and effectively!
ash scythe of the vinculum ((7, ash shortsword of binding from Level 37)
64 uses
This was incredibly useful, on many occasions. It was thanks to his scythe that I was able to use a Trisector on the Ancient Dragon in the first round (and thanks to a potion of extreme speed that I was able to stay out of his line of fire until that point).
Best with a prime size that is not a factor of any divisor sword, but that's what scrolls of the big stick are for.
If I'd been allowed two of them, I could have guaranteed a Trisector hit in the first round of any battle (instead of the two-thirds probability I had); unfortunately, they reforge into far more ordinary weapons.
Meteorite Pentasector (/5, obtained by reforging, from Level 39)
57 uses
Weapon history:
(L3) flaming sabre (-3, from Level 1)
6 uses, 3 enemy heads, 1 kills
(L4) flaming longsword (-5, from Level 3)
5 uses
(L5) frozen double axe (A6, from Level 4)
12 uses, 6 enemy heads, 1 kills
(L6) frozen scythe (-7, from Level 5)
2 uses
(L9) flaming machete (-2, brought from home)
68 uses, 30 enemy heads, 15 kills, 20 mushroom heads, 10 destroyed
(L9) bone dagger (-1, brought from home)
112 uses, 10 enemy heads, 9 kills, 53 mushroom heads, 49 destroyed
(L9) ash bastard sword (-9, from a Giant on Level 7)
20 uses
(L10) poison halberd (A10, from Level 8)
19 uses
(L10) Poison Decimator (/10, from Level 9)
2 uses
Was a bit too big this early in the game. I took up an acid trisector instead, which grew into a triple bisector.
(L11) acid triple sword (-12, from Level 10)
11 uses
(L12) bone triple sword (-12, from Level 11)
12 uses
(L16) bone shortsword (-4, from Level 2)
129 uses, 12 enemy heads, 1 kills, 20 mushroom heads, 4 destroyed
(L18) poison bastard sword (-9, from Level 13)
25 uses
(L21) flaming shuriken (M4, from Level 20)
2 uses, 4 enemy heads, 4 mushroom heads, 3 heads regrown
(L22) bone two-handed sword (-10, from Level 20)
16 uses, 10 enemy heads, 10 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed
(L24) Acid Triple Bisector (/8, Acid Trisector from Level 10)
160 uses, 180 enemy heads, 7 heads regrown
(L24) Poison Double Bisector (/4, from Level 23)
4 uses
(L27) silver double sword (-8, from Level 6)
258 uses, 64 enemy heads, 1 kills, 32 mushroom heads, 4 destroyed, 16 heads regrown
(L29) frozen axe of might (A16, acid axe of might from a Giant on Level 18)
115 uses
(L31) amethyst pick axe (W1, from Level 30)
12 uses, 12 walls
(L33) golden three-handed sword (-15, from Level 29)
23 uses
(L34) meteorite dagger (-1, from Level 9)
851 uses, 10 enemy heads, 4 kills, 528 mushroom heads, 97 destroyed
(L38) Silver S2 Primeslayer (p2, Silver Primeslayer from Level 32)
2 uses
(L40) Bone Double Bisector (/4, from Level 36)
11 uses
(L42) chaos blade of dancing (D26, chaos katana of dancing from Level 28)
124 uses, 44 enemy heads, 2 kills
Monkeys kept stealing this last one, for some reason.
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Hmmm. Nice game.
Thanks, and congratulations for winning!
I think you may be missing an end-of-line there.
Thanks for noticing!
primeslayer: 2 uses
I have no idea where the size limit for this is, but every time I used it, it failed (even though the number was prime). I used the Scroll of the Big Stick on it a couple of times, to no apparent use, and ended up leaving it behind later.
Indeed, there was a bug with the Primeslayer, and it basically did not work. Thanks for reporting! Will be fixed in the next version.
Although it should have worked after using Big Stick... but it does not work with ambidexterity, which makes it less useful for the Echidna.
Weapons at the end:
meteorite vorpal dagger (V1, from Level 33)
449 uses, 5 enemy heads, 2 kills, 517 mushroom heads, 104 destroyed
meteorite machete (-2, obtained by reforging, from Level 8)
567 uses, 22 enemy heads, 4 kills, 122 mushroom heads, 29 destroyed
meteorite shortsword (-4, obtained by reforging, from Level 15)
425 uses, 20 enemy heads, 1 kills, 76 mushroom heads, 12 destroyed
meteorite double sword (-8, obtained by reforging, from Level 26)
240 uses, 16 enemy heads, 1 kills, 16 mushroom heads, 1 destroyed, 16 heads regrown
This should tell you a lot about my strategy.
The vorpal dagger will become a machette after each attack (and Echidnas cannot simply move away to reverse this). Does not this cause problems with your strategy?
Storm Eradicator (R2, from Level 12)
85 uses
Good to see that some people use the Eradicator :)
ash scythe of the vinculum ((7, ash shortsword of binding from Level 37)
64 uses
This was incredibly useful, on many occasions. It was thanks to his scythe that I was able to use a Trisector on the Ancient Dragon in the first round (and thanks to a potion of extreme speed that I was able to stay out of his line of fire until that point).
Best with a prime size that is not a factor of any divisor sword, but that's what scrolls of the big stick are for.
If I'd been allowed two of them, I could have guaranteed a Trisector hit in the first round of any battle (instead of the two-thirds probability I had); unfortunately, they reforge into far more ordinary weapons.
Yeah, probably the best artifact for the Echidna :) I have checked this, and it seems that you can reforge it and get another one... (which is intentional, although maybe overpowered).
(L42) chaos blade of dancing (D26, chaos katana of dancing from Level 28)
124 uses, 44 enemy heads, 2 kills
Monkeys kept stealing this last one, for some reason.
They prefer to steal big weapons, and also weapons which can kill them in one hit.
Thanks again!
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The vorpal dagger will become a machette after each attack (and Echidnas cannot simply move away to reverse this). Does not this cause problems with your strategy?
Surprisingly few. The main reason for this is that the vorpal dagger doesn't usually become a machete after being used in an ambidextrous attack (I think it did a few times, I'm not quite sure why). And I only ever used it non-ambidextrously if that would kill the hydra in one hit (i.e. the hydra had one head) which was a pretty rare circumstance after picking up the vorpal dagger. (Or against mushrooms).
Another reason is that I was often dividing by odd numbers (a lot of the time, 3 and 5 at once) so I didn't need to use the dagger on every hit.
On occasion, I did have to deal with a machete; and the fact that I had a size-15 instead of a size-16 sword enabled me to properly deal with an odd number of heads at least once (and, of course, the machete shrank during that attack).
Yeah, probably the best artifact for the Echidna :) I have checked this, and it seems that you can reforge it and get another one... (which is intentional, although maybe overpowered).
Hmmm. When I looked it up with the Scroll of Reforging, it looked like it would only give ordinary weapons. Maybe I misread something.
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Indeed, there was a bug with using the vorpal blade in an ambidextrous attack (it worked against mushrooms and co-aligned hydras, while it should work against mushrooms and not co-aligned hydras; I have been testing on mushrooms).
Fixed in the new version (14.6) (http://"http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2013/02/noteye-66-hydra-slayer-146.html"). Thanks!
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Yeah, probably the best artifact for the Echidna :) I have checked this, and it seems that you can reforge it and get another one... (which is intentional, although maybe overpowered).
Hmmm. When I looked it up with the Scroll of Reforging, it looked like it would only give ordinary weapons. Maybe I misread something.
I had, indeed, misread something.
Incidentally, I became a bit suspicious when a potion of knowledge (consumed to deal with a shadow hydra) in my current game took a very long time to tell me to use a single weapon (A31) to defeat a 31-headed hydra. The result was correct, of course, but the delay made me suspicious... so I started poking around in the code for a bit. It looks like you are drawing up the complete graph for all hydras up to a given maximum number of heads before even starting to calculate the optimal path for the given hydra. Is this correct?
If so, then it should be possible to drastically speed that computation up, without sacrificing accuracy; using something like the minimax algorithm, for example, and only finding those edges of the graph that you actually need to use. (I might have a go at that rewrite myself at some point).
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Yes, you are probably right that another algorithm could be faster. IME the current one is very fast in most cases, but it fails miserably with Ambidexterity (I think it takes around 1 minute with 10 weapons on my machine). Anyway, the motivation behind the current one is as follows.
The algorithm is used in very many places in the game (Potions of Knowledge, Powder of Growth, the Mersenne Twister; and to generate strategies for ivy-hydras, arch-hydras, and the Twin; ivy-hydras and arch-hydras know that they can use their special powers in the meantime, although I was too lazy to take Twins' joint attacks into account). It calculates the path backwards, from the "dead hydra" state to every state; although starting from the current state and trying to reach the "dead hydra" state would be more natural, and probably faster for PoK, some of these uses would be hard to implement in this way (most notably the Powder of Growth, which existed since the first version).
And yes, the whole graph is built first - it is easier to generate all the edges from the given vertex, than the edges to the given vertex :)
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The algorithm is used in very many places in the game (Potions of Knowledge, Powder of Growth, the Mersenne Twister; and to generate strategies for ivy-hydras, arch-hydras, and the Twin; ivy-hydras and arch-hydras know that they can use their special powers in the meantime, although I was too lazy to take Twins' joint attacks into account).
Huh. I can find a way to deal with the ivy-hydra, probably the arch-hydra depending on how many heads it can lose at once, the potion of knowledge and probably the Twin as well, using only a partial graph; but the Powder of Growth is a tough one. I think that actually does need the complete graph, especially as I'm not sure that it's possible to work backwards uniquely with some weapons (e.g. the Sector). For maintainability, you'll definitely want to keep all of those options using the same function; if there are two path-finders, they may begin to diverge with future changes.
Okay, then here's another option that should work in all cases; it should be possible to use the ordinary (non-ambidextrous) graph to handle ambidextrous attacks. Since it's the graph generation that's causing the slow-down, this should resolve the problem. The idea is that, instead of seeing the ambidextrous attacks as attacking with several weapons simultaneously, we look at the ambidextrous attack as attacking, or choosing not to attack, with several weapons sequentially. These attacks are always considered to happen in the same order (parenthesabre, then trisector, then dagger...), and only after the ambidextrous user has attacked (or chosen not to attack) with all his weapons does the hydra get a chance to respond (e.g. vulture/ivy hydras grow heads at that point, arch hydras lose heads). Choosing to ignore all weapons would be the "let it attack you" action, which I've noticed turns up on occasion for vulture-headed hydras.
...wait, are you saying that the Mersenne Twister isn't just random?
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A nice idea, but also quite difficult to implement...
You can enchant the Mersenne Twister. The result will be biased for easy numbers then. Yopu will probably need quite a lot of Big Sticks to make it practical, though (I have not tried this strategy in practice, so hard to tell whether it is balanced well).
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I believe I may have found another bug. I noticed that there was an achievement for making a hydra collapse under the weight of its own heads, and so I decided to go for it - I was facing an alien hydra, had a Meteor Divisor of Power (/30), and lots of health. As an Echnida, I was using ambidextrous attacks the whole time.
The hydra got to 245015495 heads before I gave up and fungified it. My first thought was that the collapse threshold was simply higher than that, so I decided to look at the code to see how close I'd been; much to my surprise, I found that I'd rather overshot the goal. It seems that ambidextrous attacks don't trigger the Collapsing Hydra test.
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I will look into that. Thanks!
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Fixed. Also some improvements to the hex mode are included.
Hydra Slayer 14.7 (http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2013/03/noteye-67-hydra-slayer-147-first-person.html)
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I'm clearly missing something. I enter the game, press F4. No hex mode visible. What am I doing wrong?
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Hex mode is a game mode, not a graphical mode. You need to start a new game to play in Hex. The NotEye menu (F4) only allows you to change how the game looks (and other system options), not the gameplay.
You get the option "geometry" while starting a game (on the same screen when you select the race). Note that the Tutorial is 4-directional Human only, you need to start the real game.
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Downloaded Hydra Slayer quite a time ago, but started playing just recently. Now I see that it's rare fusion of dungeon crawl and maths, and oddly enough it works. Reminds me about one game which is not roguelike but still is turnbased and has twisted puzzles, and that game (or rather series) is DROD - Deadly Rooms of Death. Roaches are not hydras, of course, but are nonetheless challenging to defeat. And then, there are goblins and snakes and bats and growing goo...
But enough of introductions, 'cause I went here to speak about maths!
So, line of Divisors only goes one side (leaving Null Sector alone) - increase of denominators: 1/1 -> 1/2 -> 1/3 -> ... But what about other fractions? The least thing to implement should be Sesquisector and Quasquisector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_prefix), these should change quantity of heads by 2/3 and 4/5 correspondingly. They can be displayed as /1.5 and /1.25 [or 2/3 and 4/5, or /(3/2) and /(5/4), or //3 and ////5...], and they will progress with Big Stick as following: 4/5 -> 4/6 = 2/3 -> 2/4 = 1/2, which stands for normal Bisector.
More fun will be going into full forest of fractions, with unholy spawn of (7/3)-Sector turning into good old Trisector after bigsticking it twice. But this will take too much to implement, I think. And names will be too ridiculous.
Also, reminder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecatonchires) that hydras weren't holding the monopoly on multiple heads in Greek mythology. Maybe, that will inspire some idea too.
Once again, thanks for such an interesting expirience of roguelike!
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Yes, I know DROD, and it is a great game. Have you seen my other game, HyperRogue (http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper.php)? It is more inspired by DROD...
As for dividing by 3/2 and 5/4, I like your name suggestions very much. However, I think that making the Sesquisector work only with numbers divisible by 3 would be quite useless (why not use Trisector instead?).
There is the "first rule of hydra slaying", which holds for most weapons, and is a good rule for balancing them (if N heads remain after an attack, then hydras of only N smaller different sizes could be attacked by the same weapon). We could make Sesquisector agree with this rule by making it work like this: f(3n) = 2n, f(3n+2) = 2n+1. This would make it somewhat useful in a combination with Trisector, and even more useful in a combination with the Sub Trisector, which uses the formula f(3n+1)=n+1 (and yet more useful when you have all three of them). As for the big-stick rule, I think that power N would correspond to (N-1)/N, you would usually find the Quasquisector (5) and have to use Reforging to obtain the more useful Sesquisector (3).
Thanks for reminding about the Hecatonchires! I think it could be a good idea to replace the 2-headed giants with 50-headed Hecatonchires in some levels. Other well known multi-headed beasts are Cerberus and Chimera, but I have no idea how to make them interesting...
Thanks for your comments!
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Hmmm. Well, I don't know how well it would fit, but here's one possibility for Cerberi (I think that's the right plural form):
Have it move twice as fast as a hydra (like a hydra who's been given a potion of speed). Like the two-headed giants, killing a Cerberus is not necessary; however, they have a greater benefit to health (if killed in melee) than a hydra does. Have them dodge ranged weapons, as a giant does.
The general strategy of a cerberus is to hover around one square away from the player; when you step towards them, they hit once, then step back out of reach, usually before the player can react. Against slower Echnida, they will zip in, attack, and retreat all before the player has a chance to react. Short of taking a Potion of Extreme Speed (or perhaps multiple potions if playing an Echnida), the only way to kill a cerberus is to force it into a corner, so that there's nowhere to run; but if you do kill it, there is a big health benefit to be obtained.
How's that?
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Something very strange has happened. I got to a level, killed all the hydras, and it wouldn't let me down the stairs.
I began to suspect that I had missed a shadow hydra in amongst the mushrooms, so I killed every mushroom on the level - to no avail. I wandered all over the level, making sure to step into all the little alcoves along the edge of the level, so as to be sure that a shadow hydra would at least be able to see me (if not vice versa) - it did not help.
I considered the possibility that the level might have been generated with a little one-square spot that I can never reach, in which hides a hydra. Unfortunately, I have no pickaxe, and no wand of phase wall, and so I cannot check for this. (I have a number of scrolls of the big stick, and at least one of reforging - is there ever any other weapon that reforged into a pickaxe?)
I was going for the level 100 trophy, and doing quite well, so this is a somewhat unpleasant occurance.
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Seems a very bad bug... Sorry about that. Could you send me the savefile? Or tell me what the level looks like?
No, pick axes are special, there is no way to forge them.
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I've emailed a gzipped copy of the save file to you.
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Yes, there was a bug with connectivity on the nonorientable levels. Thanks!
A quick bugfix: http://roguetemple.com/z/hydra-bugfix.zip
This will also automatically fix the buggy savefile.
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Ah, excellent, thank you. An earthquake hath released the were-hydra, and I continue on into the depths!
...as another, minor note, I notice that a meteorite eradicator looks exactly like a meteorite pickaxe - instead of a sword with a squiggle in it like other eradicators. It still works as an eradicator, so it's just a graphical glitch.
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Great! The game will probably start slowing down soon (at some level arch-hydras and ivy-hydras take ambidexterity into account... of course this won't help them anyway with your weapons - I thought you would need to go deeper to get enough resources to build such a set).
As for your idea of Cerberi, they could be fun, but they also would be a real trouble for the Echidna race. After each Echidna move, they would get 4 moves (approach, approach, hit, run). Echidna seems to be the easiest race now (most reports seem to use them), so it might be a good idea to nerf it, but being hit after each move (unless using two potions of speed) seems to be too evil...
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I thought you would need to go deeper to get enough resources to build such a set
It took some work. Fortunately, proper use of potions of ambidexterity meant I could do it with surprisingly few scrolls of the big stick.
It's still an intermediate stage, though. I've worked out what I think is the perfect set of weapons for an Echidna to carry; the downside is, from where I am now, I need to pick up another 459 scrolls of the big stick and probably a hundred or so potions of ambidexterity, on top of that, so it'll take a while. (I've got all the scrolls of reforging that I'll need, fortunately).
As for your idea of Cerberi, they could be fun, but they also would be a real trouble for the Echidna race. After each Echidna move, they would get 4 moves (approach, approach, hit, run). Echidna seems to be the easiest race now (most reports seem to use them), so it might be a good idea to nerf it, but being hit after each move (unless using two potions of speed) seems to be too evil...
Hmmm. True. I was thinking more thematically than game-balancely.
Though a potion of mushroom spores could probably ward it off for a bit. Actually, that leads to another thought; thrown potions. It may be reasonable to throw a potion, in order to affect a hydra from a distance with a ranged attack. Of course, in general, one wouldn't want to throw any of the current potions; one might want to throw a potion of slowness, or a potion of stunning, even a potion of transmutation to change one hydra type to another (oh no, a werehydra when I only have ash weapons!) Or throw a potion of mushroom spores, to have a batch of mushrooms spring up one square short of the nearest obstacle or hydra. Or maybe throw a potion of speed at the nearest zombie hydra...
This may also lead to new ways to deal with giants and monkeys; it makes sense that they wouldn't be able to dodge a cloud of potion that sprays everywhere when the bottle shatters.
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Hydra Slayer 15.0 and NotEye 7.0 have been released! (http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2013/05/noteye-70-hydra-slayer-150.html)
This adds some features from this thread (no Cerberi for now), and some useful features for NotEye (palettes, improved fonts, saving config, etc.)
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As the result of the Reddit Roguelike Challenge, Hydra Slayer 15.2 has been released! Also there were major changes to NotEye (http://roguetemple.com/z/noteye.php) since the last version.
Full story here, together with some HyperRogue stuff about music and exploits (http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2013/09/hydra-challenge-new-noteye-hyperrogue.html)
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I delight in seeing NotEye grow ever more powerful and resourceful---truly if there is a candidate in the Roguelike scene to vie for the mantle that is Skynet NotEye has to be the top seed. :D
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NotEye 7.3: http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/noteye-73.html
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NotEye 7.5, with samples in many languages, a new Third Person Perspective mode, and more!
see the blog post (http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2014/02/noteye-75-tpp-samples-7drl-invitation.html)
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NotEye 8.1 has been ported to SDL2! Efficiency is greatly increased, and you can now play Hydra Slayer on OSX. There are also several other improvements.
see the full blog post (http://zenorogue.blogspot.com/2014/10/noteye-81-hydra-slayer-161.html)
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Very nice! 8) With the big move to SDL2 seemingly largely sorted, what do you suppose is the next grand development adventure that lies ahead on the horizon for NotEye?
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The main current adventure of NotEye is ADOM. Then, we will see... improve memory efficiency, host a big roguelike server, support Vapors of Insanity or maybe some new game.
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Vapors of Insanity
YES!
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Any chance of supporting Incursion? After all, it uses libtcod...
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The original Incursion does not uses libtcod, but the community version does. Is this right?
I could look into it. I suppose the best solution would be to edit the sources so that NotEye is used instead of libtcod, though (the NotEye-libtcod adapter does not work very well, and also it works with 1.5.1 for MinGW only, and Incursion apparently uses 1.6.0 for MSVC). Although it would have to be a copyleft-licensed derivative of Incursion, and Julian says that he does not want such things.
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The original Incursion does not uses libtcod, but the community version does. Is this right?
I could look into it. I suppose the best solution would be to edit the sources so that NotEye is used instead of libtcod, though (the NotEye-libtcod adapter does not work very well, and also it works with 1.5.1 for MinGW only, and Incursion apparently uses 1.6.0 for MSVC). Although it would have to be a copyleft-licensed derivative of Incursion, and Julian says that he does not want such things.
Yes, the community version uses libtcod. All the related code is isolated in one file.
I do not know what copyleft is, and the meaning is non-obvious, but assuming it is some in-group way of referring to GPL.. All the changes in the community version are pretty much mine, and I am also disinterested in licensing my changes under the GPL.
That said, GPL if your goal, should be irrelevant. You should be able to add a Wnoteye.cpp to match a Wlibtcod.cpp and license that isolated file under the GPL and have it optionally compiled in. Licensing some of the code under the GPL does not require that all the code be licensed under the GPL, just that all the source code for a distributed end product be available for any recipient to recreate that same end product. At least, that was my conclusion of GPLv3 last time I refreshed from it.