Mystery Dungeon, and other Japanese rouges

[mammal93]

I've been lurking this site for the better part of a year now, and I've noticed not a lot of talk on Japanese roguelike. Although I admit that games like the original "Rogue" and "NetHack" most; I do love Japanese roguelikes. Japanese roguelikes actually got me into the genre. The first roguelike I can remember playing was "Izuna: Legend of the Unemployed Ninja". I remember being confused, but blown away, by its turnbased grid world and extreme difficulty. Then Pokemon Mystery Dungeon came out, and I didn't really play it as I didn't have the money for it. But it had me interested and I did research and found Fushigi No Dungeon on SFC. From there I was hooked and eventually found games like Rogue and DoomRL. I've noticed Japanese rogues are a bit heavy on story and are a bit easier. Those two factors make me like the more open and challeging western rogues more, but now and then I break out a Mystery Dungeon title and have loads of fun.
I guess what I want to know is; what do you all think of Japanese RLs, and what ones are your favorite? Right now I'm playing Etrian Mystery Dungeon, and other than being a bit too easy it's damn good!

[Vanguard]

Most Japanese Rogue-inspired games are unfortunately roguelites with unlockables and persistent items and such. I think Shiren the Wanderer is the best one, and it's easily on par with the best western roguelikes as long as you don't use the item warehouse.

[mammal93]

Yeah I like that they're still turn based like a traditional roguelike, but like I said they're mostly too easy. I do love Shiren the Wanderer, t least the original on Super Famicom, and totally always forgot to use the item warehouse. I agree it's more fun and traditional without it. Etrian Mystery Dungeon has some cool concepts, but is stupid easy.
I suppose it's fair to call them roguelites, but I always think of stuff like Enter the Gungeon or Binding of Issac as Roguelites. And although they're fun I prefer the turn based nature of traditional rogues. 

[getter77]

Eh, almost all of them have some optional post-game fare that are themed and absolutely clean slate along the classical lines that are much more difficult in that sense---something of a treat for old enthusiasts and, for the relative newcomers whom are often prevalent among the target audience, a graduation from their main game "training" into the deeper end of the Roguelike pool.

You pretty much can't go wrong with any of them as far as I know---each has respective quirks, but be they from Chunsoft or others they all generally "get it" at the core....there's just not such a frantic pace of the things of late....though Etrian Odyssey's Roguelike spinoff is getting a sequel soon so there's that.

[mammal93]

I feel if you just want something that plays like a rogue at it's core, but has more story and less nut stomping they're good. I mean there are bad ones out there of course. Sorcery Saga on vita was highly anticipated for me to the point I bought the collector's edition, but it had all those things that make a JRL stand out but turned up to eleven! Too much plot (felt like I was playing a visual novel), too easy, and just over all not unique or interesting. I agree the ones by Chun Soft are all pretty solid. I will admit that the latest Pokemon Mystery Dungeon got kida boring, even though I'm a Pokefreak.

Yeah the announcement of Etrian Mystery Dungeon 2 is what brought up this thread.

[jim]

Aside from a couple of the Shiren games, I never took a particularly close look at what existed in the J-Rogue scene, perhaps because Shiren seemed to be pretty boilerplate. Should I try something else?

Couple exceptions: One-Way Heroics is ridiculously addictive, and a lot of people like Elona (I think it's interesting in a kitchen sink sort of way, but ultimately kinda dumb.)

[mammal93]

I've said it too many times now, but Etrian Mystery Dungeon is awesome so far. The Pokemon Mystery Dungeons are fun if you like Pokemon. Cave Noire is really cool since its on the Gameboy. A system certainly not known for the genre. And the last I can think right now thats a JRL would be Izuna: Legend of the Unemployed Ninja. Of course there are more great ones, basically all the Mystery Dungeons are at least a bit fun, but those are ones I recommend.

Yeah I love One Way Heroics. A very "Dammit one more try!" type of game. The sorta-sequel, Mystery Chronicles One Way Heroics, was a little disappointing because it didn't seem to add anything at all and felt like a way to just get me to buy the game again.
I'm not sure I know Elona.

[jim]

Haha, for some reason, maybe it's because I grew up with the old turn-based Dungeon Crawler genre, I really can't get into the Etrian Odyssey games. They feel like synthetic versions of home-cooked meals. The design is competent, but they lack personality, innovation, or heart. There's something cynical in their construction and turns me off. So I'm hesitant to pick up an RL spinoff...

Cave Noire looks intriguing though. I'll give it a spin!

[mammal93]

I do see what you mean, even though I do like Etrian Odyssey. The games are try to be Wizardry as much as they can, for better or worse. The 3DS remake added an optional real story mode with characters and stuff, but if you don't like the core game that's not much of a selling point. The RL spinoff is similar to the core series; not a heavy plot, you create a party, dungeon crawl basically just to get better. It's fun but not the strongest RL. It's a little too accessible, it's hard to die and even when you do you have four party members and only are penalized if they all die. There's an item to escape the dungeon right away too and you get them in abundance. And you can form a back up party so on the off chance you do loose everyone you can rescue them with your backup party. Now that I've typed all this I wonder why I'm not playing a different game. Haha kidding, but yeah it's fun but not the greatest thing.