Stealth RL ideas?

[Xaron]

Dear all,

I'm currently doing my very first rogue like (did other turn based games before) and would love to get some feedback and ideas.

So the basic idea of my game is that you stranded somehow somewhere (story is not set yet) in kind of a dungeon/cave. You have no lights, the only thing you have is a sonar. You will "see" the world around you using this sonar and can create pings to see more around you. But those pings generate noise (obviously) which can be heard by other creatures/robots (personally I prefer a sci-fi setup).

So give you an idea, I've put together a tiny prototype here: http://www.sonobots.com/game/html5



Basically all you can do there for now is pinging. The "world" is filled with random squares just to have something and test all the sonar occlusion stuff.

So my question is: Could this be fun, is this something you'd consider to play (will probably a free game anyway)? What stealth ideas do you have, what could be added?

I already have an idea for that hunger stuff. You see a battery symbol at the top left which would force you to find battery packs or places where you can recharge your batteries...

Would love to get some feedback on this, thanks!

[javelinrl]

I think that is an interesting idea, sure. Would I play it? It really depends. Your demo really looks promising but you may not want to compete with major roguelikes - maybe think of a smaller game and grow from there? That being said, I think this idea would fit really well in a real-time game (not turn based like most roguelikes) - I'm not sure which you're planning to do.

My and Cynapse were discussing a light-and-darkness themed roguelike idea, if you think some of the mechanics would be interesting for your game, let me know and I'll forward you something I've written. Currently you're not thinking of light sources but of a completely dark gameplay, so it's probably not going to be useful to you.

As far as stealth goes I've discussed that briefly with Infra Arcana's creator, you may find some of the concepts we threw around interesting https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/5nnfym/cthulhu_rl/dcdno3z/

Finally, your prototype only seems to run in Chrome, just so you know  good luck moving forward with your prototype!

[javelinrl]

Double post but just wanted to add that I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it in the roguelike / roguelite community, especially as a core mechanic. You certainly got the "innovation" factor going for you   

[Xaron]

Haha thanks, yeah. I mean I can think it would work in both worlds, in real time and turn based. I'm more bound to turn based and roguelikes so I think this could be neat.

BTW: Works for me in Chrome, Internet Explorer and Firefox plus Safari. What are you using?

[javelinrl]

Tried opening it again with Firefox and it's a no-go. Me:

Code: [Select]

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
Anyway, keep the idea of making a roguelite close to heart: I think it would serve you well from what I've seen on the prototype. It's also more of a sure way to distinguish yourself from all the "traditional" orguelikes out there. From the top of my head I can think of ThiefRL, there are bound to be other stealth-based titles out there too, even it they're not as innovative as what you're trying to do http://7drl.org/2016/03/15/thiefrl-2-success/

[Krice]

I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like it in the roguelike / roguelite community, especially as a core mechanic. You certainly got the "innovation" factor going for you

The idea is taken from that indie horror game (don't remember the name). I think it's not a very good idea, you could do almost the same by providing some other way to hide. Like turn your lamp off. I bet it becomes really annoying soon to scan all the time to see around.

[Xaron]

@Krice: You're right. There were sonar games before and probably will be more after this one. I just haven't seen a roguelike using these elements yet, even though there are quite some using stealth elements. I know that you can have it the same way using a spot light.

Actually the idea is to NOT ping around all the time. You will "see" your near tiles as you're making sounds while walking. This noise is used by your sonar as well.

@javelinrl: That's strange with firefox. Can you try this one please, it uses a different HTML5 approach (emscripten): http://www.leidel.net/dl/sonobots/Emscripten/Sonobots.html (press space to ping there!)
BTW: I use HTML5 just for prototyping, the game itself will be a real executable (Windows/Linux) plus possibly Android and iOS ports.

Thanks for your kind words btw, it's always nice to get some motivating feedback. I will keep you updated, will probably create a thread in EarlyDev then as well.

Another idea could be to use different frequency settings for the sonar, so you might use frequencies some of the other bots cannot detect.

[javelinrl]

Your new link works here! The fullscreen looks pretty good too 

If you ask me, I still like the idea of this being real-time (roguelite), playing it in a browser and spamming spacebar to scan the environment (sure, not all the time but maybe as a bigger sonar pass that extends your passive sonar perception and uses some of your resources).

Anyway, I'll sure keep an eye on your thread, as long as you're still planning on releasing the game for free in some capacity! I'm also starting a new roguelike and reading your reply made me wonder if I should start a thread here too so I think I might be going for it this time thanks!

[Xaron]

Yes this can work quite nicely for a real time roguelite. Would even introduce the possibility of multiplayer.

I'm not sure now what to do. Lol. Have to think again about realtime vs turn based...

[Xaron]

Another idea, what if this sonar would be just an option for an overlay. I mean there could be rooms where you can see normally and others where you need your sonar...

And yes I plan to make it free even though I will invest some bucks to pay an artist. I see no point in charging money for such a game. I'd be happy if there are some out there who would it play and enjoy at all.

[javelinrl]

Multi-player is a big step, especially considering server costs and all, for a free game. To be done right you need to recreate your entire game logic server-side to prevent cheaters, etc (and there will be cheaters and grievers if it gets big enough). I'd say, keep the possibility open while you code but don't make it a goal - yes, this means writing a "local client-server" architecture from day 1 if you want to make this a reality later on...

As for money, nowadays you can always aim for a Patreon later on down the road to get your art expenditures back... It's not a sure thing, by no means, but worth a shot, anyway, if your game ever gets a following

[Publius]

I presume you played Brogue, which has some stealth mechanic: http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth Personally I find it annoying (too random to be reliable: in true Rogue-the-original-game tradition), but maybe it's just me.

I also like the episode "Balance of Terror" from the original Star Trek series. Both sides try to deceive the enemy about their position, which forces them to abstain from attacking (to keep the cloaking device up), act dead etc. I think many movies about cold war submarines have similar themes. It would be interesting to have such tactics in a game.

[javelinrl]

That's easier said than done, though it would indeed be a cool mechanic. I see this more as a player-versus-player thing so if you're going to multiplayer it's a good thing to think about and have planned early on. Sure, you can try doing the same for the singleplayer monster AI but I think that would be very hard to pull of and not make it exploitable, predictable or just overall weak... I mean, even in multiplayer it would be tricky to get right but at least then you'd have human intelligence on both (or all) sides to use the mechanic well, counter-use it and play mind games, like in poker 

[Xaron]

Thanks guys! Your comments are very helpful and much appreciated!

Multiplayer wouldn't be a big issue, did this before but yes, it has to be planned from day 1 as it's completely different. Still not sure about that though, because multiplayer obviously only work when you have other players who want to play at the same time. 

As for money, nowadays you can always aim for a Patreon later on down the road to get your art expenditures back... It's not a sure thing, by no means, but worth a shot, anyway, if your game ever gets a following

Haha, well yes. I know Patreon, I even support one guy there. Dunno, could work out indeed, but obviously that's still way to early. First there have to be a game and it's always questionable if it's received good or not even though when it's well made. Nowadays it's pretty difficult to get noticed at all...

@Publius: Thanks for that, didn't know it yet. I agree, stealth mechanics are not for everyone, but so are roguelikes, turn-based vs realtime, single player vs multi player and all that stuff. When I've learned something that there is always at least one guy out there who is more strange than you/me and will love what you do.

[javelinrl]

If you've settled on multi-player I guess real time is the way to go, then? I can't really imagine a turn-based multiplayer stealth game also, there's definitely ways to enable you to play the game without other players connected, even more so in roguelikes... Think of Dark Souls: the game is fine even if you're connected to the web but having players there provide extra help for you (or enemies to worry against).