Author Topic: Basic role-playing system models?  (Read 12718 times)

Zireael

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2015, 03:08:36 PM »

Angband is not d20. What are you talking about?

The core things Angband has (AC, to hit, to dam, STR-DEX-CON-INT-WIS-CHA stats [especially percentile dice over 18]) come from AD&D and d20 shares quite a lot of them [except percentile dice]. I am not saying Angband is licensed under d20, but showing how pervasive the base system is. And how you can use their ideas without using their license.

Omnivore

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2015, 03:11:17 PM »
We have some RL libraries, but why don't we have a RPG system which is simple, open source (or rather free from license restrictions) and easy to extend with new stuff? For me the RPG system is really the big problem in roguelike (and role-playing game) development. Do we even have anything like that in tabletop form?

We don't have a RPG software library because:
A) it would have to be so generic that 90% of it would be useless in any given application.
B) there is a fundamental disconnect between tabletop RPG systems and CRPG systems, namely referee/game master/dungeon master resolution of edge cases and bounds.
C) tabletop RPG rulesets are a collection of chunks of incomplete descriptions of algorithms.
D) the human useable processes and data shapes do not map well to software solutions.
E) it would be a fuckton of work for no visible gain.

Krice

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2015, 03:56:53 PM »
A) it would have to be so generic that 90% of it would be useless in any given application.

You might be right about that. I started to work on a RPG system for Teemu and it already seems to be a bit different. But I don't know, it may become "generic" in the context of typical RPG systems. What I'm planning for Kaduria is something that can't be expressed with regular RPG systems anyway. It's more than that.

mushroom patch

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2015, 06:50:01 PM »

Angband is not d20. What are you talking about?

The core things Angband has (AC, to hit, to dam, STR-DEX-CON-INT-WIS-CHA stats [especially percentile dice over 18]) come from AD&D and d20 shares quite a lot of them [except percentile dice]. I am not saying Angband is licensed under d20, but showing how pervasive the base system is. And how you can use their ideas without using their license.

d20 is a very specific ruleset. Angband AC, to-hit, etc. are clearly influenced by d20, but they are very different mechanically. For example, you can explain how hit-rolls and AC work in d20 in a short paragraph. Experts on angband are hard pressed to explain how AC works there and its impact is more complex than just hit-rolls. As far as I know, there's no uniform system of proficiency/stat checks in angband, as in AD&D. Movement works differently. And on and on.

Aukustus

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2015, 07:29:50 PM »
ADOM is also clearly d20-influenced, but still very far mechanically. It even mentions Underdark and Lol'th (Lolth).

Ex

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2015, 02:01:05 AM »
The old roguelikes are based on AD&D 2.0. D20 was 3.0. Before that, AD&D used thac0, which is similar to D20, but backwards (if that makes sense). Lots of people found it hard to understand or annoying, so D20 was invented.

guest509

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2015, 03:56:17 AM »
For roguelikes the D&D and other table top systems are not perfect. They work but I would like a system that's RL specific. An RL system takes into account the control system as well as combat/game mechanics. My system links the stats directly with the controls. You don't have strength or melee, but rather a bump stat, you don't have agility or dexterity, but rather a shoot stat.

NOTE: I do not take into account 'to hit' rolls. I do not use them.  Armor, resistances and being faster and fleeing are your defenses. There is no, "you miss" nonsense, that's not my style.

Stats
-Bump: melee attack stat with special effect if any...
-Armor: %blocked, magic attacks can ignore armor.
-Move: How many moves, depends on your timing system.
-Shoot: ranged attack stat with special effect.
???-Throw: If it's important to your game, you might have a throw stat, but for me certain things are throwable and do damage based on their weight.

Status
-Health: Start at 9999 and count down like Gauntlet. Eat food to restore health.
-Mana: Reduce this when a magic item is used, it slowly clicks up. You can sit and wait for mana to regenerate but then you are wasting health at one tick per turn...
-Special Effects: Poisoned, stunned, confused, blinded, regenerating etc....

Slots (each slotted item will alter the basic stats).
-Armor, weapon, ranged weapon, magic item, accessory, etc...depends on your game.

Special Effects
-Each item slotted can have a passive special effect on the wearer, each item used from inventory can have a special effect and a target (other, self). Like heal, invisible, fly, polymorph, etc...

The controls are thus:
-WASD = Move in four directions. Bump attack, open doors.
-Arrows = Shoot in four directions. You might us 'f' or 's' plus the arrows to shoot and use just arrows to move.
-Numbers = Equip/Use items in one screen inventory. Meaning inventory is only 9 slots.
-Space Bar = Use slotted magic item.
-T = throw or throw away something.

------------------------------------------
Example character panel

Uncle Jo                Health:  8245
Bp  Ar  Mv  Sh       Energy: 45%
4    2    6    0

Hand: Flamberge (+4,0,0,0), Fire
Worn: Light Shirt (0,0,+2,0)
Item: Shield (0,+2,0,0)

Inventory:
1. Holy Potion
2. Azderzzcoo Scroll
3. Empty
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.

Note your 'slots' can also be a Race and Class giving stats and special effects, like above the 'move' stat should only be 2 if you are looking at the gear but humans will all start with move 4.

Example:
-Race Slot: Human (0,0,+4,0)
-Class Slot: Fighter (0000), May Use Heavy Weapons

You can use that slot system for all kinds of things, like....
-Mutation: 4 Arms (+2, 0, +2, +2*)  *applies only if ranged weapon is equipped

So that's one way to do it, some people might want to do the WoW/ToME4 system where you activate abilities and what not, you can modify this to that system as well but I enjoy a more gear/slot type of system.

Anyway I hope that helps people, I've not made a game with this yet but the system is sound. Anything that links actual controls to the stats is cool by me, it's just much simpler to see what's what that way.

Note the game Demon Hunt is a HUGE influence on this system.

Good luck.

SomeGuy

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2015, 11:51:52 AM »
We have some RL libraries, but why don't we have a RPG system which is simple, open source (or rather free from license restrictions) and easy to extend with new stuff? For me the RPG system is really the big problem in roguelike (and role-playing game) development. Do we even have anything like that in tabletop form?

Actually, I find your question pointless.
You need first to think about how your roguelike will work in general terms. How the character will increase its proficiency? How combat will look like? Is magic D&D-ish or a different system? Is the game skill-based, level-based or anything else? How does the player creates the character? etc...

I don't think a RP library is any possible because nobody knows how your roguelike will work. Also there are so many styles and variables that it would be impossible to create a RP system flexible enough.

BTW, developing a RP system shouldn't be hard once you exactly know how your finished roguelike will work.

guest509

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Re: Basic role-playing system models?
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2015, 06:18:32 PM »
@Someguy - You'll see that not knowing an RP system or whatever is a huge mental block for Krice. It's been his big issue for some years now. He'll either solve it or he won't.

Also, you cannot know exactly what your RL will look like in the end, but having a nice base system set up is probably a foreseeable thing.

I think many people get hung up on table top style RP systems when they should be creating a game system. All that's necessary for a solid RL is hit points and a damage calculator (probably based on whatever gear is used, can can be as simple as weapon grade - armor grade). There have even been nice RL's that are 1 hit only, but most long ones have at least hit points.

Check out the original Rogue or Brogue to see what I am talking about. Nothing too complex.

You can overthink this part to death and never get anywhere.