Author Topic: Rogue - let's beat it  (Read 184290 times)

FamesYASD

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2015, 06:15:43 PM »
Some monster tips:
‘B’ats are quite annoying at first levels due to their very high evasion rating however they can be kited with ranged weapon easily like this:
1)if it stands next to you, you go to the back side;
2)if it does follow you then repeat the first step;
3)if it doesn’t follow you -> you shoot it  if shooting trajectory allows you to do so if not then go to the back side again and repeat the process
‘E’mus are the easiest enemies in the game and even on exp level  1 you may not waste arrows on them
‘S’nakes, ‘K’estrels and ‘H’obgoblins are listed according to the graduation in threat and should be killed from distance.
Vs ‘I’ce monsters tacticks are described in previous post.
‘R’attlesnakes are pretty much much no threat at all if you kill them at distance if possible since strength recovering potions are quite often to be found and real problems with strength start at 5(16) strength; and at 6(16) str you are just a liiiiitle bit less powerful than at 16(16) strength so take a note on that.
‘O’rcs, ‘Z’ombies are not dangerous to the average health boosted characters (5 hp per level is average).
Always try to kill ‘L’eprechauns at least in melee for potential experience.
‘C’entaurs are usually killed in 2-3 hits (More likely in 3).
‘Q’uaggas are usually killed in1-3 hits(Usually in 2)
How to counter ‘A’quators:  wear leather armor if possible, if you do not have such armor or scroll of armor protection then do not wear any armor at all. Don’t worry you can still handle ‘C’ and ‘Q’ on level 7 or even 6. Just regen to 80% of total hp after a fight and you’re good to go!
‘Y’etis  are no stronger than ‘C’ and ‘Q’, they hit you quite often but  also are easy to hit too,  so they can be described in 4 words: free loot and experience.
‘N’ymps are usually killed from distance of at least 5 grids or you can drop all that stuff that you do not wield and wear and put on and then kill her freely to get free treasure.  !If you have scroll of scare monster in inventory then you have 2 options: to kill her from distance or to ignore!
Venus ‘F’lytraps is just a free exp also if you get caught in its traps  while having another monster in that room don’t panic. That monster can’t do anything until you deal with the ‘F’lytrap,  but when you DO have to worry it’s when you’ve been first hit or chased by that monster and then caught by a venus ‘F’lytrap.
‘T’rolls , ‘W’raiths, black ‘U’nicorns , ‘M’edusas and ‘D’ragons  were explained in the post above.
‘P’hantoms usually sleep so they don’t hit you first unless you’ve touched them by accident, also if you poly some monster into ‘P’ it will sleep until you touch it. Kiting-throwing tactics work with them just as well as with bats.
‘X’erocs are a piece of cake.
‘V’ampires usually die in 3 hits and not easy to hit but they are no threat.
‘G’riffins die in3-5 hits(average is 4) and ‘J’abberwocks die in 5-7hits (average is 6). Griffins are always aggressive and Jabberwocks are not, so if Jabberwock is in sleep he will sleep until he is being touched.

FamesYASD

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2015, 06:51:34 PM »
The art of item identification:
Scrolls:
There is only 1 type of scroll that can be identified without reading it ,- scroll of scare monster. From the very level 1 once you see a scroll you wait for monster to come through it and if monster avoids it on its path then without a doubt you have a scare monster scroll. This waitness requires turns which means waste of food so you might not do this trick on some scrolls to save food, but in that case when you read scrolls on level  8 and earlier use scroll identification scrolls on such possible scare monster scrolls.
Always leave 1 unidentified scroll in inventory if you haven’t found scroll of scroll identification yet. Because this one scroll might be it and it will be a disappointment to waste it.
Potions:
Start quaffing potions when you have no inventory space for items left AND 16(16)str. Or when you have 5(16)strength or on level 12.
First read scrolls then quaff potions.
Wands/staffs:
Use them to identify in lit room on leprechauns from at least 5 grids range.
TP monster  to yourself: ‘L’ appears near you and tries to hit you.
Haste monster: ‘L’ start moving to you with two grids per turn.
Slow monster: ‘L’ moves one tile while you can move two.
Light: I don’t remember but the phrase about this wand includes word ‘room’
Poly or monster’s ability cancellation: ‘L’ will turn into another English letter OR will remain the same in that case let him hit you if it steals your gold after successful hit then it’s polymorph if not then it’s wand of cancellation.
Magic missile, cold, fire, lightning identify automatically.
If you are left with the half of your current hp then it’s: -50% of your current hp goes as damage to the monster staff.
If ‘L’ disappears then it’s either tp monster out staff which you can check by going on grid occupied by Leprechaun or make monster invisible or polymorph ; in that case if monster steals you gold with hit it was make invis and  if it hits hard and doesn’t disappear then it’s poly.
Identify wands whenever possible.
Rings:
If cursed:
Randomly tp all over the level – it’s teleport ring; Ice monsters, Nymphs and leprechauns start agro on you – aggro monsters ring; if you have lesser strength – minus strength ring; if it requires for you to make more hits for monster to die than usual – it’s minus damage ring; if you miss more often – it’s minus hit to chance ring; if monster hit you more often than usual then it’s a minus armor ring.
If not cursed:
Ring of searching: You can find traps by simply going near them and searching take 1-3 turns instead of 5-11.
Armor/strength sustain – Aquators/rattlesnakes can’t low your armor/strength.
Regeneration ring – you start to regen 1 hp per turn.
Ring of stealth: Aggro monsters such as quaggas, trolls may not aggro at you and continue to sleep when you enter room.
Slow digestion: If your hunger-weak or weak-faint stage lasts a lot longer that 150turns with ring being put on then it’s slow digestion ring.
See invis: you can see phantoms now.
+arm/+str/+dmg/+to hit chance rings effects are idenfied in an analogy to the cursed ones.
The most often rings to find are searching/see invis/slow digestion and stealth rings.

FamesYASD

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2015, 07:47:01 PM »
How to counter negative game effects and abuse positive ones:
Traps: shoot arrow – deals 1-6 hp damage it’s not that bad and you can even have free projectile to throw if it misses(you may abuse this on higher exp levels)
Sleeping gas/bear trap/poison dart trap: always bad
Random effects trap does nothing except of printing fancy messages on your game screen
TelePort trap is usually good: acts like a tp scroll
Trapdoor trap: before level 17 is bad, on levels 18 to 26 is great as it helps you to rush trough levels, on the way back it’s terrifyingly evil.
Scrolls: sleep/monster summon/aggro- always bad, never read after identification
Weapon up –read whenever is possible,  armor up/armor protection read on your best suit of armor (in the meaning of protection value).
Map – read at the beginning of 26 level and on the way back to avoid possible trapdoor traps.
Food – if you have one then read it at the beginning of 26 level to see the location of amulet of yendor , if you have more than 1 read those  extras on level 17 to 25, leaving one for level 26. On the way back they become useless due to no treasure/food on the wayback.
Confusion – has very high value, very useful, best use in hallways aka tonnels you can slay a very powerful monster with that scroll coz it will skip a lots of turns while you keep hitting it. It’s not very good use for black unicorns on low Rogue exp level, because to get the confusion effect on monster you need to hit them and it’s very hard to hit a black unicorn. So best use is against griffins/jabberwocks and dragons.
Tp scroll use if you have nowhere else to run . Effect can be failed so you will teleport to the adjacent tile.
Remove curse – best use when you put on all rings, try all armor so it can uncurse more things at once.
Monster summon – if you summon nymph and kill her she will not drop anything.
Scare- if you play your cards right you will never see a ‘you hear a maniacal laughter in distance’ message on your screen. Best use is when you appear on new level right in a treasure room (Starting from level 12 and so ). Beware of Dragons ,their flame can roast you on the scroll.
Freeze(hold monster) puts nearby monsters to sleep, they will sleep until you touch them. Best use when you when you have nowhere to run and there are more than 1 monster chasing you. If you are being chased by only 1 monster it’s better to use tp scroll instead. (if you have one obv.)
Potions:  monster vision – best use on levels 20-26 if you’ve spent a lot of time on some level or if you appear in the treasure maze room or right after when you’ve teleported out some monster or teleported yourself.
Poison – best use is to cancel hallucation effect.
Hallucation is always bad/blindness is always bad.
Heal/extra heal cure blindness also if you heal with them to full they grant you +1 or +2 max hp.
Heal potion heals like Rogue level d5 and extra one heals Rogue leveld10 but I’m not sure.
Confusion is always bad, counters by standing still. ALWAYS stand still under confusion effect.
Levitation is used to fly over traps.
See invis to see Phantoms
See treasure is used on lvl 26 to see amulet of yendor. If you have extra use them at the beginning of level from 17 to 25
Haste is used to kite monster, note that monster doesn’t hit you after quaffing it so for example you have 5 hp left and there is troll standing near you, you quaff that potion and you can go back and only then troll makes its step forwards you and after that you can easily kite him down.
Lvl up is best use to get from level 10 to 11 to be able to kill unicorns or if found later to lvl up from lvl 13 to 14 or from 14 to 15 etc
Staffs have at least 4 charges to the  best max of 7.
Tp monster to is really useless/ haste monster is worst/make invis is good but only if you also have light wand in hand to lit room first and then if medusa comes to make her invis fom distance so she won’t be able to confuse otherwise that staff is useless.
Magic missile is ok to spend instead of projectiles, light is great as it has a lot of charges (like 20 or 30)
Polymorph is great as it helps to deal with dragons (sure, whatever the outcome is  there’s nothing stronger than dragon anyways) or other strong creatures.
Slow monster is great against almost everyone except dragons since they can shoot you.
Cancellation monster ability is very good to cancel dragon’s flame, to cancel out aggressive ice monsters in treasure rooms or to deal with wraiths and vampires.
-50% hp is an utter shit never worth to use except on nymphs, aggressive ice monsters or wraiths, always puts you in a great danger.
Tp out is also VERY nice wand.
Flame isn’t good it misses a lot and doesn’t work against dragons.
Cold Is a little bit better, it doesn’t deal damagae to yetis but it doesn’t matter.
Lightning is best of them it almost never misses and no one immune to it.
The best use of this ranged damage wands on later 13+ lvls  to use them on strong enemies instead of bow and arrows.
Rings: Slow digestion put on whenever you identify it. Sustain armor/strength only when encounter ‘R’ s and ‘A’s. Stealth ring put on at the staircases to the lvl 20. +dmg/to hit chance/armor/strength put on at lvl 17+. Regen doesn’t worth food consumption  if you are exp  level 10 already, it’s good in early game.
See invis is almost useless. Put on search ring on level 26 and on the way back.  uncursed teleport ring can act like a tp scroll/tp trap quite often and save you from chasing monsters.
Also, never use your best suit of armor unless it’s protected by scroll or you are on level 19 already, from level 1-8 use your second best suit of armor and from 9-18 it’s either leather armor or no armor at all.

Squeeealer

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2015, 07:17:30 PM »
This is good stuff.  What are the approximate odds that you start out with a 2-handed sword in the room you start in?

I don't have a way to quickly restart my game on my Roku version, but I could online.

FamesYASD

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2015, 06:13:08 AM »
i have in average three 2h swords in 200 games so it's ~1,5%.

FamesYASD

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2015, 06:35:15 AM »
fix about armor use:
it plays a huge role on  Rogue exp level 1-5, so it's still better to risk and use your best found piece of armor at these levels, + the risk actually is not that huge due to the lack of traps on early levels and absense of 'A'quators.
 Also, it's better to start using best found armor again starting from level 17+ because aquators are not that widely spread at deeper levels and the risk of meeting 'U' or 'M' while rushing from 17 level to 19 is still pretty huge. 'M' has not very high chance of hitting character so even average +6 or +7 armor is good to go.
Other monster tho like 'D', 'G', and 'J' with 'V' has such a great  hitting chance that there is basically no difference between no armor character and +10 armor character;you will need to have at least 11+ armor to feel the diffrence,
but nevertheless armor plays VERY important role in dodging Dragons' fire:  +6 armor makes you dodge ~50% of ranged attacks on level 11-12, and 10+ armor on levels 12+basically  makes a proof vs flames.
So, it is not a mandatory to have great amor to beat the game(4+ armor is enough), When i won the game i had +5 armor in the end.
However, it is pretty much a mandatory to have lots of damage which means  a lot of strength and a really good enchanted weapon, i had +3/+6 2h sword and 19 str in the end.
Also, you should have at least 1 scare monster scroll, which is a rare finding but in every game there is at least 1 of them.

FamesYASD

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2015, 10:03:21 AM »
about hp:
it almost doesn't ever matter how high or low boost of health you get per lvl in the beginning of the game, in the end of most games at exp level 12-14 you health will be around 80 points so when you have like ~20 hp at level 3 or even at level 4 don't worry about the late game, if you are able to survive mid-early game, usually game begins to get you  more hp per lvl to get you to 80hp at exp levels 12 to 14;
 visa versa even if you have ~30 hp at level 3 or ~40 hp at level 4 don't be very relieved, in 95% of cases game will start giving you like 1-4 hp per lvl so you will be at the same (80) hp at level 12-14.
Having this amount of hitpoints at such levels means that your average health boost per level was ~5 to the very best of 6 in most of games and that's more than enough to be able to beat the game.
Also, use your heal/extra heal potions to heal yourself in fights, it is a huge waste and mistake to use them to upgrade max hp because for example:  having 5 more max hitpoints means literally nothing in fight with dragon/jabberwock/griffin etc because they will at worst 2-3 hit you anyway but what DOES matter is your  possiility to almost fully restore your hitpoints and then deal/survive another couple of attacks!

elwin

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2015, 02:56:51 PM »
Congratulations on winning!

The tip about farming XP on levels 12 or 16 sounds useful. So does waiting in doorways to see if Medusas or anything else nasty is awake inside.

Warning: if you are playing online and quit whenever there's no two-handed sword, you will get a lot of zeroes on your score page. I don't have a good way of filtering them like the NetHack and DCSS tournaments do.
Roguelike Gallery: play Rogue online.  SSH or in browser.

Squeeealer

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2015, 05:29:18 PM »
I haven't been posting because I went weeks without finding a two handed sword and kept having short runs.

Finally, this morning I hit the jackpot.  A two handed sword and FIVE enchantments.  But I still managed to blow it.  My defense was poor and a Troll knocked me down to 14.  I was at exp level 9, so started running to get my hp back up when I ran right into a Centaur.  The Centaur knocked me down to 4 HP and then the Troll finished me off.  Stupid, stupid.  I had a wand of teleport away to use on the Troll and a couple of HP potions.  It didn't help that I had a zero armor thanks to the Aquators.  What a waste.

Squeeealer

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #54 on: September 27, 2015, 09:23:09 PM »
What a cruel, cruel game.  I finally found a one-handed sword early and was getting ridiculously high increases in HP at level ups.  Problem?  NO FOOD. I die on floor 6 after finding only one ration and getting lost in a couple hellish floors where I could not find hidden passages.

Squeeealer

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2015, 06:01:13 PM »
@elwin - any idea when the site will be back up?

I'm having some of my best runs when I find a staff of slow monster.  Finding one of those is essentially getting a free victory against a tough enemy as long as you don't get ambushed in the middle of using it.  In general, I'm finding staves to be more likely to be of value (and of greater value) than most rings.  So many rings are cursed or just not worth the toll on your appetite.  I will sometimes even use a scroll of identify on a staff/wand when I know what it is just to find out how many charges it has left over identifying an unknown ring. The odds are just so low that the ring will be of any value to me.  Only regen, slow digestion, and stealth seem to be of any great value, unless I'm forgetting any.

I finally got to experiment with the ring of stealth.  I see now why it is valuable.  It keeps all monsters "frozen" that originally inhabit the floor (from what I can tell).  The catch is that any monsters that spawn are not affected by it (from what I can tell).

I had my most embarrassing play about a month ago.  I have started dropping my best stuff when I am about to engage a Nymph.  In one particular battle I dropped a bunch of good stuff, the Nymph stole some worthless thing from me, and then I picked all my good stuff back up.  Once I got to the Trolls I was ready to use my two (identified) scrolls of scare monster.  But where were they?  I then realized I had DROPPED THEM BOTH before facing the Nymph and never noticed them turn to dust as I attempted to pick them back up.  DOH!

Squeeealer

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2015, 11:03:06 PM »
Two questions:

1.  Why is it that the amount of gold on the leaderboard is less than the amount of gold you die with?  For example, I just died with 5044 gold and the leaderboard says I had 4540.

2.  When I drop an item and then kill an enemy on the same floor who drops something - they drop what I dropped, and what I dropped disappears.  Is this supposed to happen or is it a glitch?

Avagart

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2015, 11:19:02 PM »
Which version of Rogue do you play? It sounds strange, and I never encountered these (I think so) bugs.

Squeeealer

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2015, 03:04:47 AM »
5.4.4

It happens at rlgallery.org and the port on my Roku (for both).

Avagart

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Re: Rogue - let's beat it
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2015, 02:18:12 PM »
1) Ouh, it happens :D I don't know why, it's strange. But I think this is intentional, because I checked other versions (Rogue 5.4.4, 3.6.1, Rogue 1.0, Classic Rogue 2.5, TileRogue 2.3) and I encountered this issue in every game.
2) Hm, maybe this monster just took item which you dropped?