I added a new monster, any ideas or feedback? (post your new stuff too)

[tuturto]

So, I finally managed to code something new that can be shown:



It's a stationary fungus, that slowly multiplies if left alone. Eventually a large mass of them will merge into a stronger one that just sits there. Both of them will attack anything that comes close to them and is not related (so regular and great fungi will actually fight each other, thus limiting the multiplication rate). Unlike any other creature so far, these can attack to diagonal directions too. There's also a hard cap on their numbers, to prevent them taking over the whole level.

It's very basic monster currently and I'm thinking that I should try adding something little bit extra there to make them more interesting. Haven't figured out yet, what that extra would be. I'd like to hear any ideas you might come up with.

[AdamStrange]

I like the concept of stationary and multiplying.
Also monster classes is a great idea. I thought of something similar instead of classes - levels. Monster with a higher level will attack monster with a lower level. similarly if possible lower level monster will try and retreat from higher ones. - I'll need to code it first though

[tuturto]

The avoidance and retreating routines I'm missing too. Other monsters will happily march next to fungi and get damaged. They won't even attack back. I find it fun to bait other monsters near fungi where they get killed, but I think they should learn to avoid fungi, at least when not directly pursuing player.

I'm trying my hardest to have each different monster type to have something unique about them. Like, how and where they move or what kind of combat abilities they have. Roguebasin has couple good articles that list different ways of differentiating between monsters.

[miki151]

Have you played hyperrogue? It has a really cool stationary & multiplying monster. It's designed for a 1hp game, but the idea would work pretty well in other roguelikes too.

[AdamStrange]

Definitely agree. I wrote a very complex AI routine which was eventually junked because it assumed that all monsters faced the same direction.

Currently mine are just standing around waiting for the AI. But at least they now face different directions.

People think that for retreat you just reverse the direction, but it's not always that simple - specially when trying to prevent monsters becoming stuck in corners.

Not played hyper - I'll check it out

[Endorya]

That's actually a fine idea. If you want to further extend the concept you could add "ageing" to it. When they multiply their newborns are at their weakest state but as time advances their skin hardens turning them into tougher opponents. Maybe they can only multiply when reaching an adult state and when doing it so, they could also develop some sort of defense mechanism, like spitting some nasty stuff.

[tuturto]

I'll try out HyperRogue. I have known that it exists for a while, but haven't gotten around to try it out yet. As a concept, it looks really nice and quite a bit different than what I have usually played.

Aging is interesting idea and worth exploring more. They could also grow spikes or start releasing toxic fumes (that don't spread too wide, otherwise player might run out of space to manoeuvre too soon). Spitting poison for a short distance (like two squares) would beef them up considerably.

[AdamStrange]

A thought on ageing.
I had different skeletons with different colours and different speeds to denote their age. The older ones also had less intelligence.
They also were more prone to get bored when chasing you.

[guest509]

Hey there Adam Strange, about retreating for monsters there are some frustratingly good algorithms for this using dikjstra maps. Brogue uses them a lot. It's HORRIBLE! Goddamn monkeys steal my shit and run run run run run and can never catch them, they know which door to go for...

I think there is an article on how Brogue handles this but I cannot find it. Anyone want to find it for me? Pender's Dijkstra map article?

[Endorya]

Another thing that could be done is having "adults" multiplying when killed, this would add a new strategy element urging the player to neutralize them before they can reach maturity. Finally, you could make them (if not already) releasing a toxic cloud whenever they are slayed, granting a negative side effect for those players standing too close to it as well as making ranged combat the ideal strategy to handle them (if not already).

[tuturto]

Tried hyperrogue and that is really cool game. I liked how there are different environments with different kinds of monsters and mechanics. Stuff like living wall I might end borrowing with some modifications.

A thought on ageing.
I had different skeletons with different colours and different speeds to denote their age. The older ones also had less intelligence.
They also were more prone to get bored when chasing you.

I have simple skeletons in game. They just wander around the level, patrolling from room to room and if player walks too close to them, they start chasing him. If player can outrun them, they'll forget the encounter and return to patrolling. Having skeletons, zombies and mummies of different ages would be nice. I like the idea of the older one getting less and less interested on what is happening around them.

Another thing that could be done is having "adults" multiplying when killed, this would add a new strategy element urging the player to neutralize them before they can reach maturity. Finally, you could make them (if not already) releasing a toxic cloud whenever they are slayed, granting a negative side effect for those players standing too close to it as well as making ranged combat the ideal strategy to handle them (if not already).

This might be a really good idea for greater fungi. They are a bit boring now, since all the do is sit still and attack everything around them. Releasing a toxic cloud (think of spores) when killed and possibly spawning some regular fungi at the same sounds interesting way to differentiate them more.

[Rickton]

The one thing I would warn is that if the things get more powerful as time goes on, you maybe only make that happen if the player is nearby, so they don't go explore the other side of the dungeon, not even realizing your fungus is there, and come back to find rooms full of mature superfungus.
Of course, if your levels are small enough, this doesn't really apply.

I played a game once (I think it was Crawl with its Oklob plants?) where there was some kind of reproducing monster and it ended up taking over a large portion of the level just because I went the other way. Annoying, especially 'cause even if I knew that it did that, I had no idea it was even there.

[tuturto]

The one thing I would warn is that if the things get more powerful as time goes on, you maybe only make that happen if the player is nearby, so they don't go explore the other side of the dungeon, not even realizing your fungus is there, and come back to find rooms full of mature superfungus.
Of course, if your levels are small enough, this doesn't really apply.

I played a game once (I think it was Crawl with its Oklob plants?) where there was some kind of reproducing monster and it ended up taking over a large portion of the level just because I went the other way. Annoying, especially 'cause even if I knew that it did that, I had no idea it was even there.

I'm aware of that threat. Long ago I played a game with some sort of worms that kept multiplying. If you didn't kill them fast enough, they eventually got better of you and covered large areas of the level. That's something I want to avoid. Same thing applies to monsters that get stronger as time progresses.

Which gives me an idea. I could limit the multiplying effect to happen only in rooms. That way fungi would never escape into tunnels and their numbers would be more controlled.

This is probably one of those things that needs to be playtested over and over again when the game changes.

[AdamStrange]

Hmmm, Thought about this one and came up with this idea:
lets say we have a fungus A.
if can replicate itself - but (here's the interesting bit) It's not of type A but Fungus B
Fungus B has a defined lifespan that after a certain time it dies. But it replicates itself (Fungus C)
Fungus C has a lower lifespan and when it dies it reproduces (Fungus B)

Havent coded it (might try it quickly and tweak the results), but you should have a self replicating moving fungus that won't completely take over?

[AdamStrange]

Another thought would be to have fungus replicate only when you are within a certain range?
possibly replicate little ones when further away...