Why am I so bad at Sil?

[Trystan]

I really like this game but I can't get anywhere.

I've tried every character build I can think of and the best I can get - after over a hundred games - is 200ft as a stealthy archer who found a ton of spears to throw at things. Nearly all my characters die on the first two levels. It seems that every time I go through a hallway there's a 50% chance I'll get boxed in. I've started shooting arrows down halls before, during, and after I go through them just to see if anyone is there but today I got surrounded by orcs even though I closed the door to the corridor right after I entered it. The few times I've seen spiders they manage to kill me in one or two hits, even when I try to stay away from them. Dark rooms seem to always have a spider or white wolf who starts attacking me as soon as I see them. Several times I've find a room almost completely full of worms with the downstairs in the center.  Is this one of those games where you just have to find an awesome item on the first floor to get anywhere? Is there some non-obvious thing I need to do with all those rags laying around? I'd much rather play one decent 30 minute game than play six 5-minute games of instant death in the second or third room I enter. I've spent more time setting up some of my characters than actually playing them. What gives?

[Vanguard]

What builds are you running?

I've had luck with fighting + evasion.  Don't invest too much into special abilities early on.  Make sure you understand how damage and critical hits work.

The races are intentionally unbalanced.  If you pick edain you're in for a hard time.

[Trystan]

High archery and low melee with the versatility ability seems to work best for me if I can find a bow and arrows early enough. I haven't noticed much of a difference with the other abilities that are available in the early game.

I think I got the basic idea of melee weapons: use heavy weapons if I have high strength, light weapons if I have high accuracy. The first two melee abilities also give a bonus to damage or critical hits too.

[jim]

Trystan, I'd suggest making a dex and con based melee fighter at the getgo. Sink 4200 points into melee and archery. You seem to be describing a cautious playstyle, which generally serves well. You should be able to blunder your way through. High archery is useful, but since enemies have their evasion halved for ranged attacks, it's not going to be strictly necessary for a starting build. Much more important is being able to land blows when you are caught off-guard, and being able to evade. Orcs don't hit often, but when they do, they pack a whallop (as you are surely aware.) Finesse is a good feat to get. Don't let perception and will completely atrophy, as both can ward off disaster. Don't be afraid to stairdive in either direction if you are in a bad spot.

Aside from that, just keep in mind that Murky Brown Potions are always potions of Orcish Liquor (which heal for 25% and may stun you.)

I have other things that I do to try and make characters stronger, but they are probably not going to be super useful if you're not getting past 200 ft.

Have you considered recording a playthrough?

[Trystan]

I usually put my skill points into melee or archery; I'll try both next time. I didn't know that Murky Brown Potions are always the same either.

I'll think about recording a playthrough.

[jim]

Trystan, I am an idiot. I meant Melee and Evasion. I tend to ignore almost everything else at the start. I've beaten Sil twice and am not a particularly skilled roguelike player (so take heart! It can be done!)

[Vanguard]

As jim says, CON and DEX are the best stats to focus on.  Even if you're using heavy two handed weapons, two points of strength is sufficient.  Maybe you can justify a third if you're using warhammers but I don't recommend it.  Grace is okay.  Definitely get at least one point one point to power up your will and perception for cheap.  I like to get two.  Three might even be worthwhile if you're investing heavily in song or smithing, but I haven't tried it enough to say.

I don't know about archers, but for fighters your best methods for dealing as much damage as possible are either two handers or a one handed weapon with both finesse and subtlety.  Damage generally matters more than accuracy because late game enemies have insane armor values.  You literally won't be able to harm them if your attack power isn't rock solid.

Weapon damage follows the usual XdY format.  One point of strength increases damage sides by one and critical hits increase the number of dice.  So if you have a 2d5 damage longsword, and you have at least one of strength and it weighs at least one pound, its damage becomes 2d6.  If you crit with a 2d5 longsword its damage becomes 3d5.  With enough accuracy you can score multiple crits on a single attack, so that same longsword's attack power could become 4d5, 5d5, etc.

Heavy weapons can crit too, and it's not a bad idea to use a two hander and build for crits.  The difficulty of scoring a critical is based on your weapon's weight, so lightweight bastard swords are a good choice.  Some enemies are protected against critical hits, so even if you're running a subtlety build, keep a heavy weapon around.  Armor penetration is the holy grail of weapon effects to such a degree that a penetrating dagger can outperform a greatsword without crits.

On the defensive side, the dodge in the evasion tree is available right away and it's really good.  In a fight, alternate between attacking and moving away to get the bonus mostly for free.  It also helps a lot when running away and dealing with archers.

[mushroom patch]

When I played Sil, I was bad because the skill interface is bizarre -- you adjust some skills through a specialized skill screen, but others you control through your character sheet, a traditionally noninteractive information screen in moria-derived games. Took the intervention of someone who'd never played any such games before to figure that one out for me.

Perhaps this little foible has been corrected in more recent versions.

[Trystan]

Thanks for the tips everyone! I still haven't made it past 250ft but I get farther than I usually did. Having high hp and evasion makes a big difference. The dodge ability hasn't been much use though since I almost always die because I get surrounded in a dark room or corridor. I'm not sure how to avoid that other than luck and paranoia. Maybe I'll try some heavy armor builds next.

[Vanguard]

The dodge ability hasn't been much use though since I almost always die because I get surrounded in a dark room or corridor.

i found your problem

Sil really emphasizes positioning.  Always have an escape plan.  Don't blunder into dark rooms if the surrounding area isn't clear.  Don't assume hallways are always safer than rooms.

I recommend favoring offense over defense so if you do get cornered you have a way out.

If you're going to go stealth instead of combat, you need the exchange places ability to deal with those situations.  I always go combat and I still take it.