Author Topic: The Temple of Torment  (Read 132143 times)

maxthebest

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Re: The Temple of Torment
« Reply #315 on: October 09, 2016, 05:06:40 PM »
1)
Quote
I'm going to add the detailed spell descriptions to the item descriptions
yes that would be good.

2)
Quote
Do you mean the skills displayed in the character screen ?
I mean the active abilities.
lv1 shaman Hex: decreases enemy ac by 5.
my shaman Hex: decreases enemy ac by 10.
So how come my shaman hex got more powerful?

3) Mana on hit item affix affects spells.
+1 moh = 25% mana cost discount.

At first dungeon, with +1 moh, i could kill ~10 enemies before oom.
After 100 mana these costs become negligible.

4) Warriors / monks vs ranged enemies. They have no gap closer.

At the bridge, there is a boss 7 tiles away, blasting you for 140% of your max hp until you reach him.
add another 4-6 turns to kill him, thats 250% max hp.
Potion gives +25% max hp per potion (because the boss keeps attacking you while you drink the potion).
That makes an effective bill of 10 potions needed. Assuming you used no deity powers.
Using hand of azanath as a deity god for the teleport, will make you able to kill the boss without a single healing potion.
And if its a boss with confusion, add an extra 5 turns lost moving to chase it.

This is fine, from a balance point of view, no reason to buff these classes or nerf the bosses.
You were supposed to use a ranged weapon for these.

5) However, here comes the question?
Why play warrior, when an str wizard can do the same thing, in terms of damage.
While having a) Polymorph: 25 turns  b) Invisibility c) Teleport d) Time Stop: 6 turns stun.
All these tools are free gap closers and potion chugs opportunities and time stop is 600% damage steroid.

While having no weaknesses? no specific mob in the game that counters them ? And the ability to switch to spellcaster mode without mana costs when desired?, while warrior has to carry ammo = -1 item slot.

Cultist Zealot was the only enemy that was immune to my fire bolt. I switched to my melee, it died in 3 melee attacks.

Current Stat: 73 hp, 116 mp, 83 ac, 6 str, 3 con, 4 int, 1d8+13 melee, 1d6+12 spell.

6) Intellect / Wisdom / Charisma. Do exactly the same thing +1 spell damage. Why have 3 seperate stats instead 1?

Casting from a spellbook of another class is already disabled. It requires the corresponding Known Language.

7) Why limit spellcasting to the base class picked?
Mages have 1 Known Languages.
Warriors have 0 Known Languages. This means warriors are handicapped to never learn spells.

Counterargument: If the spellbook restrictions were waived.  People would be able to learn all spells = op.
a) they would spread theirselfs thin by having to level up more than 1 skills.
b) have spellbooks require corresponding attribute, that way a mage would not be able to learn both divine and arcane spells.
c) The min-max munchkin meta wont change, a mage neglecting str and con will end up squishy.

Aukustus

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Re: The Temple of Torment
« Reply #316 on: October 09, 2016, 06:18:36 PM »
I mean the active abilities.
lv1 shaman Hex: decreases enemy ac by 5.
my shaman Hex: decreases enemy ac by 10.
So how come my shaman hex got more powerful?

It's 10, I don't remember when it has been 5, if ever.

Quote
3) Mana on hit item affix affects spells.
+1 moh = 25% mana cost discount.

At first dungeon, with +1 moh, i could kill ~10 enemies before oom.
After 100 mana these costs become negligible.

Right.

Quote
4) Warriors / monks vs ranged enemies. They have no gap closer.

At the bridge, there is a boss 7 tiles away, blasting you for 140% of your max hp until you reach him.
add another 4-6 turns to kill him, thats 250% max hp.
Potion gives +25% max hp per potion (because the boss keeps attacking you while you drink the potion).
That makes an effective bill of 10 potions needed. Assuming you used no deity powers.
Using hand of azanath as a deity god for the teleport, will make you able to kill the boss without a single healing potion.
And if its a boss with confusion, add an extra 5 turns lost moving to chase it.

This is fine, from a balance point of view, no reason to buff these classes or nerf the bosses.
You were supposed to use a ranged weapon for these.

I've had no trouble killing them in melee with paladin and monk.

Quote
5) However, here comes the question?
Why play warrior, when an str wizard can do the same thing, in terms of damage.
While having a) Polymorph: 25 turns  b) Invisibility c) Teleport d) Time Stop: 6 turns stun.
All these tools are free gap closers and potion chugs opportunities and time stop is 600% damage steroid.

While having no weaknesses? no specific mob in the game that counters them ? And the ability to switch to spellcaster mode without mana costs when desired?, while warrior has to carry ammo = -1 item slot.

All classes are viable but some classes may be stronger than others. Str wizard will never make more melee damage than a fighter in a single strike.

Quote
Cultist Zealot was the only enemy that was immune to my fire bolt. I switched to my melee, it died in 3 melee attacks.

Current Stat: 73 hp, 116 mp, 83 ac, 6 str, 3 con, 4 int, 1d8+13 melee, 1d6+12 spell.

Sounds like your character is quite overpowered actually. No idea why though, perhaps the monsters are too easy.

Quote
6) Intellect / Wisdom / Charisma. Do exactly the same thing +1 spell damage. Why have 3 seperate stats instead 1?

Intellect affects only Arcane magic's spell damage. They always give bonuses to just the spell schools that use it.

Quote
Casting from a spellbook of another class is already disabled. It requires the corresponding Known Language.

7) Why limit spellcasting to the base class picked?
Mages have 1 Known Languages.
Warriors have 0 Known Languages. This means warriors are handicapped to never learn spells.

Counterargument: If the spellbook restrictions were waived.  People would be able to learn all spells = op.
a) they would spread theirselfs thin by having to level up more than 1 skills.
b) have spellbooks require corresponding attribute, that way a mage would not be able to learn both divine and arcane spells.
c) The min-max munchkin meta wont change, a mage neglecting str and con will end up squishy.

You can actually learn languages. Nothing prevents it, there's a merchant in Westerfall selling dictionaries that teach you the languages.

maxthebest

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Re: The Temple of Torment
« Reply #317 on: October 10, 2016, 12:49:54 AM »
1)
Quote
You can actually learn languages. Nothing prevents it
Thats cool. Didn't knew that.

2) Idea: Classes should have different skills maximum.

Example: Wizard should have One-Handed, Two-Handed, Dual-Wield set to 0/2.
2/2 : would give them +1 DMG, +5 THB.  vs
5/5 : would give them +3 DMG. +10 THB.
that's a fair nerf.

3) Potential new op class, the rogue. Having access to:
a) invisibility: free gap closer. Okay, so this class is designed to be melee.
b) Vault [reposition +5 turns = 500% damage ranged vs melee].

Give him Item: Dagodin's Musket: 1d20+1, +5 THB.
And now he is a mage without mana cost and 1d20+15 dmg.
okay he must spend money on bullets. However money becomes no issue after the first dungeon.

Op??? yes, melee bosses could move 2 spots to compensate = 250% damage.

his 5/5 ranged skill capacity could also take a nerf.

4) Pressing "Rest until healed" in Mount Devil's Mouth, results in :
  a) Instant death.
  b) Endless loop of sending the death state to the server, and spam dying again, without ever leaving the death screen menu.
  It would be better to disable rest and give a warning eg "Resting here would kill you".
  The good news is if you press Ctrl + Alt + Del and close the game, you dont have your save stuck in the death screen.

5) Crash: Fire beetle in fire plane of hell.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "TheTempleofTorment.py", line 77554, in play_game
  File "TheTempleofTorment.py", line 5257, in take_turn
  File "TheTempleofTorment.py", line 3353, in attack_resurrect
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'max_hp'
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 05:37:51 AM by maxthebest »

Aukustus

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Re: The Temple of Torment
« Reply #318 on: October 10, 2016, 06:51:56 AM »
2) Idea: Classes should have different skills maximum.

Example: Wizard should have One-Handed, Two-Handed, Dual-Wield set to 0/2.
2/2 : would give them +1 DMG, +5 THB.  vs
5/5 : would give them +3 DMG. +10 THB.
that's a fair nerf.

I've thought a lot about this too. Perhaps I can do it.

Quote
3) Potential new op class, the rogue. Having access to:
a) invisibility: free gap closer. Okay, so this class is designed to be melee.
b) Vault [reposition +5 turns = 500% damage ranged vs melee].

Give him Item: Dagodin's Musket: 1d20+1, +5 THB.
And now he is a mage without mana cost and 1d20+15 dmg.
okay he must spend money on bullets. However money becomes no issue after the first dungeon.

Op??? yes, melee bosses could move 2 spots to compensate = 250% damage.

his 5/5 ranged skill capacity could also take a nerf.

I like that you are power-gaming the classes, it gives me a lot of insight how OP some things can be. Definitely needs some balancings, a lot of things actually.

Quote
4) Pressing "Rest until healed" in Mount Devil's Mouth, results in :
  a) Instant death.
  b) Endless loop of sending the death state to the server, and spam dying again, without ever leaving the death screen menu.
  It would be better to disable rest and give a warning eg "Resting here would kill you".
  The good news is if you press Ctrl + Alt + Del and close the game, you dont have your save stuck in the death screen.

Thank you, I'll fix this.

Quote
5) Crash: Fire beetle in fire plane of hell.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "TheTempleofTorment.py", line 77554, in play_game
  File "TheTempleofTorment.py", line 5257, in take_turn
  File "TheTempleofTorment.py", line 3353, in attack_resurrect
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'max_hp'

Thanks also to this, I'll fix this.

I assume you are the first standard victory that is shown at the website's Hall of Fame?

maxthebest

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Re: The Temple of Torment
« Reply #319 on: October 12, 2016, 07:15:59 PM »
Quote
I assume you are the first standard victory that is shown at the website's Hall of Fame?
Maybe it lists the current version only.
Great game, really immersive and with well written story.

Favorite Bosses:
a) Curwen in bridge after caverns.
b) infrantilith. Confusion + Ressurect.
c) Final boss.

Favorite Dungeon: Temple of Yahwin: Really unique, traps, golems.

Maybe future bosses should focus on windows of vulnerability. Eg have spells that prolong the fight. Eg.

Boss idea 1:
Darksight: Your sight / attack radius is reduced to 1. Maybe the debuff lasts 4 turns?.
teleport
invisibility
polymorph sheep + "start eating" recovering 1 hp per turn until damaged
[hint: use those useless dots that do 1 hp dmg per turn]

Boss idea 2:
stoneskin: +10 ac for the first 6 turns of battle.
healing: boss heals 10-20 hp. 2 charges. [wand of healing?]

Boss idea 3:
Silence
mana drain
ammo destroy.

Aukustus

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Re: The Temple of Torment
« Reply #320 on: October 12, 2016, 08:44:47 PM »
Maybe it lists the current version only.
Great game, really immersive and with well written story.

It lists every win ever, so you are the very first to win it, at least with online features enabled.

I'm glad you liked it! I've definitely wanted to focus on the world and the story.

Quote
Favorite Dungeon: Temple of Yahwin: Really unique, traps, golems.

It's probably the only area that has a puzzle of some sort, as there exists only a single path through the last area's traps. In the future there shall be more puzzles, and definitely harder.

Quote
Maybe future bosses should focus on windows of vulnerability. Eg have spells that prolong the fight. Eg.

Boss idea 1:
Darksight: Your sight / attack radius is reduced to 1. Maybe the debuff lasts 4 turns?.
teleport
invisibility
polymorph sheep + "start eating" recovering 1 hp per turn until damaged
[hint: use those useless dots that do 1 hp dmg per turn]

Boss idea 2:
stoneskin: +10 ac for the first 6 turns of battle.
healing: boss heals 10-20 hp. 2 charges. [wand of healing?]

Boss idea 3:
Silence
mana drain
ammo destroy.

I like these definitely. Silence and Mana Drain are something I've thought a lot about as spells that the enemies could cast. Also some monsters capable of healing themselves. I've thought about giving the companions potions of healing that they could drink possibly when in battle. They could probably stock themselves automatically when visiting towns.

I've built a dungeon generator that builds similar levels as in the original Rogue, there'll be a dungeon that uses those levels so perhaps in the bottom there shall be a boss inspired by these.