Author Topic: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).  (Read 5827 times)

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« on: December 28, 2013, 06:56:43 AM »
Hi there,

I am an old new member. I registered to these forums a few years ago for one of the games I developed, I don't even remember which one...

Now I am back and with a new game in development.

The first thing you notice when you develop a game is that playing the genre is not enough to know all the design decisions you will need to make while making the game.

My last previous game is called "Concussion Boxing", you can find it in either Google Play or Apple App store(also on Amazon App store).
After developing this game I realized it's a lot harder to make a fighting game than I initially thought. And I am not talking about the technical side of the graphics and etc but rather just balancing and animating the attacks properly is very hard and requires experience.

The game I am currently developing was meant to be an RPG but then I decided to change it to a Rogue Like.
It will sound a bit pathetic but I thought a Rogue Like would be easier to make. Of course I was wrong.
There are tons of design decisions to make in making a Rogue Like which I don't have a lot of experience with.

One of the reasons I wanted to make a Rogue Like is because it would be easier for me to create the artwork. Since I have a job the amount of work required to invest in the game is a big constraint that needs to be taken into account.

So here is a bit of what I got for this game:

https://twitter.com/PompiPompi/media


After all this introduction here is what this thread is about. I want it to be a sort of devblog about my game mainly for the purpose of getting advice from you guys on how to design the game.

I hope this is ok with this community, please tell me if it isn't.

And here is the first design issue I am having:
Presentation and visuals.
As you can see from the twitter pic, the 3D camera is aimed at 45 degrees.
The reason is that this kind of angle would allow me to draw sprites from either front or back without the need of angled or right/left sprites.
I also thought of cutting some walls into a third of their height if they occlude some tiles.
However, having this kind of presentation means that walking will be done diagonally and maybe the spatial reasoning of the tiles will be more difficult than a plain 2D presentation.
How would you suggest to present a Rogue Like game in 3D?

Another big design issue is what kind of game to make:
I have played Cardinal Quest a bit and thought "Hmm, this games seems fun, I will invest more time in it once I have free time."
And then I have played "Pixel Dungeon" and I got hooked right from the start finding myself playing it almost by default whenever I have free time.
So as you can see two different superficially similar Rogue Like have very different experience for the player.
Every small decision, from traps, keys, NPCs will change the game experience.
I am now thinking maybe I want to make a sort of RPG/Rogue Like hybrid since my initial goal was to make an RPG?
Not sure.
I guess I need more general tips on what kind of game I should actually make. :/

If you read this wall of text then thank you. And again, I hope you are ok with this
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 06:59:25 AM by PompiPompi »

Krice

  • (Banned)
  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 2316
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2013, 08:33:08 AM »
How would you suggest to present a Rogue Like game in 3D?

The first question is do you need 3D for this game? By deciding to use 3D you have already created problems that doesn't even exist in 2D graphics.

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2013, 09:04:52 AM »
I would rather it would be 3D. Mostly because 3D is more luring for new players.
Of course 3D doesn't make the game good on it's own.

Edit: What exactly are the issues with 3D?
One issue I can think of is that it's not immediate apparent to see the tiles and tile lines between the player and objects\enemies.
What else?

I have a few ideas how to make 3D that can be reasonable for a RogueLike.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 10:36:12 AM by PompiPompi »

Krice

  • (Banned)
  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 2316
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 11:16:48 AM »
Edit: What exactly are the issues with 3D?

The issues you wrote in the first post. What are you? A moron?

guest509

  • Guest
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2013, 11:36:04 AM »
I think what Krice is saying is that 3D graphics take a ton more time.

getter77

  • Protector of the Temple
  • Global Moderator
  • Rogueliker
  • *****
  • Posts: 4911
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 01:26:39 PM »
Welcome back Pompi---it was your Dragon Crystal-like game of old: Labyrinthica.   8)

As to alternative thinking, have you spent any time with HyperRogue?  It offers another reckoning entirely as to how to deal with 3D space...

http://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper.php
Brian Emre Jeffears
Aspiring Designer/Programmer/Composer
In Training

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 03:40:39 PM »
I think this viewing angle could work out?


Krice

  • (Banned)
  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 2316
  • Karma: +0/-2
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2013, 09:35:09 PM »
I feel sorry for you. I think it's not nice to be a mentally retarded.

AgingMinotaur

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 801
  • Karma: +2/-0
  • Original Discriminating Buffalo Man
    • View Profile
    • Land of Strangers
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2013, 11:54:21 PM »
We'll just have to trust you on that one, Krice, as you seem to have firsthand experience :)

As always,
Minotauros
This matir, as laborintus, Dedalus hous, hath many halkes and hurnes ... wyndynges and wrynkelynges.

Paul Jeffries

  • 7DRL Reviewer
  • Rogueliker
  • *
  • Posts: 257
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Vitruality.com
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 01:07:27 AM »
Hi PP, I remember you from TIGSource.

From my own attempt at doing a roguelike in 3D, I found I needed a higher angle (about 60 degrees) so that important things were not being obscured, and I also set it up so that the camera would automatically raise up to a birds-eye view in narrow corridors.  Still, it's something that it's easy enough to tweak later - try it out and see.

It's obviously a good idea in general to ignore Krice - he's this board's equivalent of a crotchety racist uncle - but he has the germ of a point here.  If you're doing 3D it's a good idea to make the 3D-ness contribute to the gameplay rather than just doing it for the sake of it.  I'm currently playing the new 3DS Zelda and it does some interesting things with split-level rooms etc. - it might be worth checking it out for inspiration.

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2014, 12:39:25 PM »
Yea, I guess I will see as I make progress.
Being creative requires some effort and I am not sure I have the energies for that right now...

Anyway, here is a bit of progress:

https://vine.co/v/hYMeQb0Jbdm

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2014, 04:37:28 PM »
Another vine, trying to make walking juicy?

https://vine.co/v/hYeKi2pQXPZ

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2014, 08:03:53 AM »
Another vine with per tile shading and "fog":

https://vine.co/v/hLQqxBWiEZH

NON

  • Rogueliker
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Infra Arcana
    • Email
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2014, 08:18:08 AM »
Another vine with per tile shading and "fog":
https://vine.co/v/hLQqxBWiEZH
You clearly intended to stop at that T shaped corridor and walk downward, but the guy kept going forward. Imagine this happening to a player and they die because of it.
Happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes.

PompiPompi

  • Newcomer
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Devblog of project "NQuest" a mobile Rogue Like(Need help).
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 04:10:16 PM »
You are correct and quite perceptive.
The thing is I was trying to not occlude the screen with my hand so I was pressing on the iPad's edges.
Someone playing will probably press more near the center.
There is also an issue with the input that I need to fix but all this will hopefully work perfect once released. :)