Author Topic: Would fans of Roguelikes play a roguelike no matter how it was made ?  (Read 30689 times)

corremn

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I would personally be happy just with:

Code: [Select]
Your are in a room. The exits are north, west and southwest.
There is an angry wolf here. There is a bat here. There are 3 scrolls of identify here.
> hit wolf
You hit the wolf for 13. The wolf hits you for 10. The bat hits you for 1.

Even just that would be cool. Especially if there were different rooms descriptions, and weird ways to enter/exit rooms (climbing on things, pulling levers, solving puzzles, finding items etc.). It would be very much like a single player MUD with randomly connected rooms.

I played a game like this called "Curse of Vengeance" may years ago on a mac.  You essentially go around solving small puzzles whilst killing things and leveling up (iirc).  A IF + RGP game, putting in a random world will cross over into IF + RL quite well.


corremn's Roguelikes. To admit defeat is to blaspheme against the Emperor.  Warhammer 40000 the Roguelike

mariodonick

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Quote
A IF + RGP game, putting in a random world will cross over into IF + RL quite well.

This sounds as if it's enough to have a random world and gameplay with RPG mechanics to create a roguelike. For me, the main problem is: in a RL, you see a rather big part of the world, 'cause you have a certain view distance. In a MUD or IF you often see only one "tile" and its exits at a time.

So how do you want to describe the following from the player's position as text?


#####
e.###
#.D..
###.#
###.#
###@#
###+#


In a roguelike, you can plan tactically. In IF or MUD you had to write tons of texts just to describe this situation AND to make this text interesting to read.

Of course you could say that the tactical approach of RLs is not important; but then, imo, its not a RL anymore.
https://mariodonick.itch.io/lambdarogue-the-book-of-stars
-- LR: The Book of Stars graphical roguelike RPG

getter77

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What about distance as a form of language.  "You enter the vault and see before you a Berserker 3 steps/paces away/to the East/South/Northwest/etc, an Archer 5 "" away, and a glowing Scroll Scroll 1 step ahead of you sitting in a large pool of blood.  Action"
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mariodonick

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What about distance as a form of language.  "You enter the vault and see before you a Berserker 3 steps/paces away/to the East/South/Northwest/etc, an Archer 5 "" away, and a glowing Scroll Scroll 1 step ahead of you sitting in a large pool of blood.  Action"

This is the description part. And now make it interesting to read.
https://mariodonick.itch.io/lambdarogue-the-book-of-stars
-- LR: The Book of Stars graphical roguelike RPG

getter77

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What about distance as a form of language.  "You enter the vault and see before you a Berserker 3 steps/paces away/to the East/South/Northwest/etc, an Archer 5 "" away, and a glowing Scroll Scroll 1 step ahead of you sitting in a large pool of blood.  Action"

This is the description part. And now make it interesting to read.


I reckon that'd be describing the Vault itself in more detail, and likewise for the specific enemies...lots of adjectives to reflect the respective variations.  LOS and such could be worked in as having that Archer, for instance, not be visible, or at least not until he sends an Arrow flying in from a general direction, unless the player has something to boost his/her "natural" sight radius past a value of 4.

Or something.
Brian Emre Jeffears
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njerpe

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I think the most common pitfall in this admittedly very unexplored area, is to add fixed IF content to the procedurally generated RL dungeons. What I feel, instead, is that the roguelike genre is so great because of the randomness/replayability, and to really take advantage of IF-like features (such as a storyline, or puzzles), you should ideally tie it up with the principle of randomness, in a meaningful way.

What if this principle of randomness or infinitely generated worlds was itself a part of the plot?
Legerdemain - A Tale Fraught with Peril and Wonder

http://roguelikefiction.com

njerpe

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I have no idea how flexible inform is but if it can do a RL, why should i mind? I've heard some folks even look at RLs programmed in freebasic ;)

I have heard rumors of an implementation of Rogue in Z-Code, which would be pretty much proof positive that it *can* be done, since Inform 7 -> Inform 6 -> Z-Code.

But I've no clue whether that's a practical approach or not.
Legerdemain - A Tale Fraught with Peril and Wonder

http://roguelikefiction.com

rdc

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What about distance as a form of language.  "You enter the vault and see before you a Berserker 3 steps/paces away/to the East/South/Northwest/etc, an Archer 5 "" away, and a glowing Scroll Scroll 1 step ahead of you sitting in a large pool of blood.  Action"

This is the description part. And now make it interesting to read.


You could certainly generate a roguelike game using text:

You enter the {south door} of the {Dismal Vault}, a room {10 meters by 5 meters}. {A single torch casts flickering light} on {stone walls} {streaked} {with greenish slime} {mingled} {with blood}.  {3 meters north of you} {a berserker} {stands facing you}, {clutching a large broadsword}. {5 meters} {to the northwest} is an {archer} {readying an elmwood bow}. {1 meter} {to the east} is {a glowing scroll} {laying} {on a large pool of blood}. There are {2 exits}, a {wood door} {to the south} and {a bronze door} {to the west}.

The text is the {} would be the procedural text generated by the room layout.

mariodonick

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Sorry, but this is not interesting to read. It is generic and boring without any "soul", and after a few turns you will recognize the patterns a text is built of.

Good IF should have sool and unique writing, style, atmosphere. This is why I don't play MUDs anymore, but stick with real IF, because esp. the newer ones are more literature than game. I agree, however, that many players might play a generic singleplayer RL-MUD.
https://mariodonick.itch.io/lambdarogue-the-book-of-stars
-- LR: The Book of Stars graphical roguelike RPG

El Barto

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Re: Would fans of Roguelikes play a roguelike no matter how it was made ?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2012, 09:13:50 AM »
I have no idea how flexible inform is but if it can do a RL, why should i mind? I've heard some folks even look at RLs programmed in freebasic ;)

I have heard rumors of an implementation of Rogue in Z-Code, which would be pretty much proof positive that it *can* be done, since Inform 7 -> Inform 6 -> Z-Code.

But I've no clue whether that's a practical approach or not.

It exists indeed:

http://ifarchive.smallwhitehouse.org/play.php?file=games/zcode/rogue.z5

Legend

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Re: Would fans of Roguelikes play a roguelike no matter how it was made ?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2012, 06:46:07 AM »
I would LOVE and Interactive Fiction/Roguelike hybrid!