Author Topic: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?  (Read 33082 times)

jlund3

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2014, 03:17:43 AM »
Has anyone started something like this? I've been looking for a small project to polish up my own roguelike framework and this seems like a fun project for it.

Even if someone else has started it, I would say that you should go for it. Statistically speaking, the chances of both you and the hypothetical competing developer both finishing such a game is pretty slim. Furthermore, the chances that both games are even remotely similar beyond the common thematic elements is pretty slim. So have fun and happy coding!

Quendus

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2014, 03:27:17 AM »
Oh man dude, I'm not sure a super hero roguelike is a small project at all. The character building, all the different power effects and the underlying game system to support all of that is daunting. Just daunting.

I have been working on a game system that would work mechanically, but it's still very much on the drawing board.

Jo, Normally you're able to think of a reasonably simple system to capture an idea of this kind - what's stopping you in this case? What can you cut out?

guest509

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2014, 06:25:04 AM »
I think the issue here is that Comic Book Heroes really encompass all genres and themes at once. From Conan to Galactus.

So let's say you limit that to just street level Batman and Wolverine types. No intergalactic, but Hero City type stuff, Justice League maybe, Avengers, X-Men but not Guardians of the Galaxy.

Still, there's a HUGE variety of effects you must program. The simple system I've come up with would work, but it's a ton of engine level stuff, and very generic by necessity.

So now you have a second major issue. The fun of a Super Hero type game is the themes of the powers. Dr. Strange is a wizard, Iron Man has his suit, Cable is a cyborg, Wolverine is sort of of a cyborg but also a mutant. And it's not just the power origin but also the backstory that makes them interesting.

For example Deadpool and Wolverine have similar powers but are wildly different characters.

I've come up with the following generic system. You rate each hero not by descriptive stats but by mechanical stats.

Moves:
Hits/HP:
Bump:
Shoot:
Throw:
Stealth:
Special Effects (passive, toggle off/on and activation abilities)

Commands would be Move/Bump attack, ranged attack and pickup/throw object, toggle or activate an ability. Simple commands. Note that picking up and throwing stuff is essential when super strength and telekinesis are being considered.

Character building would be where the theme comes in. You would have a certain number of character slots or points. So to build wolverine you would choose.

-Human: Move + 3, HP + 3, Bump +1, Throw + 3, Stealth + 1
-Healing Passive: +1 'hits' each turn.
-Claws: +3 Bump stat.
-Reinforced Skeleton: +5 HP.

And so the game would represent this as these stats
Moves: 3 (human normal)
HP: 8 (3 human plus 5 for choosing the Reinforced Skeleton)
Bump: 4 (1 human + 3 for claws)
Shoot: 0
Throw: 3
Stealth: 1
S/FX: Healing (+1 hits per turn)

This is a very workable system, I envision it being a Turn Based system, like a squad based game or a single player RL with a sidekick (like the dog in nethack) is also a possibility. With the game flow being a 'choose your mission' type were you sit in your Hall of Justice and choose which crisis to go after or bad guy lair to invade. Or maybe you can 'Patrol' and walk around the city looking for baddies to defeat.

With this sort of system, and enough time spent on adding tons and tons of interesting character building choices, you can create a pretty solid Roguelike or Turn Based Squad game. For flavor you can roll up random backgrounds and motivations, the RPG Heroes Unlimited has TONS of these.

You can even create packages, semi randomize presets themed around an origin, so you can start the game quicker. For example:
Mutant Package
-Human plus 3 random powers from the 'mutant' group.

Martial Arts Package
-Human, Stealthy, +2 from Hand to Hand group and +1 Chi group.

Street Solider Package
-Human, Flak Vest, +3 random choices from Weapons Group.

It's not that I can't design it, it's that done right this sort of game can blow up huge. It's not a simple project.

Let's just say that my next 7DRL is going to be NOT THIS!!!  ;)

EDIT: Punisher (Human, Body Armor, Guns, More Guns, Bad Attitude)
   Moves: 3
   Hits: 6 (+3 human, +3 armor)
   Bump: 3 (+1 human 1, +2 bad attitude)
   Shoot: 6
   Throw: 3
   Stealth: 1
   S/FX: None

guest509

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2014, 06:44:21 AM »
Note the above system can be weak in modeling the Super Smart and/or Super Charismatic characters. Super Smart would probably have to be modeled by the stats that their super invention gives them, and Super Charismatic would have to be modeled by having tons of minions in their lair or having extra sidekicks or something.

There's also the Incredible Hulk issue. Where a person transforms into something else, werewolves have a similar issue. But you can just have a 'toggle' Special Effects ability that simply changes your character build (and thus your stats).

One very interesting take on the Incredible Hulk issue is the Marvel Lego game. The Hulk can smash everything in that game, but you can also transform into Bruce Banner who is good and building stuff. Both are equally useful. Pretty neat idea really.

Vanguard

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2014, 12:23:46 PM »
It's not that I can't design it, it's that done right this sort of game can blow up huge. It's not a simple project.

Why not start out with the most basic concepts and work your way towards more specific ones until you get bored or whatever?

Any project can can potentially blow up huge.  There's no reason why this particular one must do so.

guest509

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2014, 12:47:21 PM »
Agreed Van. I have at least 4 prototypes of this system. This is kind of an 'opus' project for me, but I'm not as good at the big shit as the DF, URR, Cataclysm and DCSS guys are.

Zireael

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2014, 06:48:35 PM »
How about you give us a prototype or 2 to test and say which one we like better?

guest509

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2014, 11:29:12 PM »
I'm not interested in critical feedback. This one would be for me.

Trystan

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2014, 12:12:03 AM »
I think all the variations and effects and the AI to use them well is part of the fun and challenge. I've got some free programming time tonight - I'll be sure to share what I come up with.

Trystan

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2014, 11:43:06 PM »
I had some time this weekend to get most of the basics started. Simple worldgen, a few traits to pick from, some user interface things, and one existing superhero: Zoidberg. The creatures just wander around randomly for now. I'm focusing on breadth instead of depth until I have the major parts done then I'll add more content. Once I have decent ai and a world you can interact with, it should start being fun.

SWF:
  https://sites.google.com/site/trystansprojects/RogueHeroPlayground01.swf?attredirects=0&d=1

Code:
  https://github.com/trystan/RogueHeroPlayground

It's written in Haxe so it can be compiled to run as a Flash app, or on Windows, Mac, or on a bunch of other things.

guest509

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2014, 08:20:18 AM »
Well crap maybe my webs are messed up but I couldn't download that. :-(

Paul Jeffries

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »
I had some time this weekend to get most of the basics started. Simple worldgen, a few traits to pick from, some user interface things, and one existing superhero: Zoidberg. The creatures just wander around randomly for now. I'm focusing on breadth instead of depth until I have the major parts done then I'll add more content. Once I have decent ai and a world you can interact with, it should start being fun.

SWF:
  https://sites.google.com/site/trystansprojects/RogueHeroPlayground01.swf?attredirects=0&d=1

Code:
  https://github.com/trystan/RogueHeroPlayground

It's written in Haxe so it can be compiled to run as a Flash app, or on Windows, Mac, or on a bunch of other things.

Interesting.  It doesn't quite fit on the screen on my laptop, though - I only get the top half of 'What is your name?' etc. and can't scroll down.

Trystan

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 01:42:21 AM »
It's 1280x720 with a 12x12 font. My previous RLs were criticized because they were a non-standard screen size and too small of a font.

Do you know what standard resolution would work well for you?

CrowdedTrousers

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 08:04:38 AM »
Great concept with loads of promise, Jo. You have enough core concepts sufficiently sketched out to go to prototype.  There you can road test the mechanics and think of new possibilities.

Absolutely do it for yourself, it's one of the best reasons to do anything.  But don't you dare hide this away! I am already salivating to play this game.      :D

Paul Jeffries

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Re: Super Hero RL - Design Fail?
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2014, 08:03:08 PM »
It's 1280x720 with a 12x12 font. My previous RLs were criticized because they were a non-standard screen size and too small of a font.

Do you know what standard resolution would work well for you?

My current screen res is 1366x768, but of course running in a browser you have to factor in the address bar et al which will intrude on that space.  If you're planning on keeping it as a browser game then ideally you should make it adapt to whatever size window it's currently in.