Author Topic: Pixel Dungeon (now at v1.7.3)  (Read 513862 times)

gravling

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #180 on: May 04, 2013, 03:11:47 PM »
I was killed by the explosion of bones you get when you kill a skeleton.

The rankings say:  Killed by a com.watabou.pixeldungeon.sctors.(something that does not fit.)

Incidentally, that rogue character made it past Goo equipped with the starting cloth armor and the starting knuckleduster.  A +5 ring of evasion is a very nice thing to make.  But I should have bought an ankh, gone back upstairs and committed suicide.  Instead I thought to kill skeletons for weapons.  Cloth Armor + skeleton attacking you is a very bad combination.

flamewolf393

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #181 on: May 04, 2013, 03:45:36 PM »
Either I am completely missing something or this is the hardest dungeon crawl of all time...

I have played nearly 100 times, and only 3 times have I made it to the Goo. My main cause of death is starving (or being so low on health because of starving that mobs one-shot me). 4 times out of 5 there is *no* food anywhere at all.
*Equipment is far too rare, maybe 1 out of 5 runs will have a weapon/armor, and of those about 1/5 is usable do to strength, and those are ALWAYS without fail cursed.
*Potions are basically useless since you have to drink them to find out what they do and I almost never see a second one of the same color.
*Scrolls are a little better since they are generally useful when you try them out.

*Classes: Wizard is useless as there are no wands anywhere. Warrior is mildly useless because the rogue does just as much damage (due to attack speed) while also using a lot less food. Warrior generally starves to death by the end of floor 3.

I want to like this game, and it has great potential, but the difficulty needs some *serious* reworking.

gravling

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #182 on: May 04, 2013, 04:04:32 PM »
You are, indeed, missing an important fact.  You need to position yourself so that the monster is in the doorway
before you whack them.  Then they cannot dodge as well, and you kill them faster.   You will then notice that
a warrior is a lot better at killing things than a rogue is.   If you are running out of food all the time and not finding any on most floors , then you are probably missing some secret doors that lead to rooms with food in them.  Because while food is rare enough that there is a challenge, it's not as rare as you state in my games.

For a limited time only, you can heal up in garden rooms.  You cannot starve to death there, either, so you can just
forget about food for a while and head back to the garden room and heal back up and do more exploring.  But the guarden rooms are going to change next release, so this is a time-sensitive tip ...

Best of luck, and it does get easier with practice.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 04:12:18 PM by gravling »

flamewolf393

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #183 on: May 04, 2013, 04:25:52 PM »
Enemies almost never dodge my attacks as it is. And looking at the average damage, the warriors sword does 6, and the rogues knuckles does 3, but with the rogue attacking twice a round that is the same dps as the warrior. I will try the door thing though.

I search anywhere that makes sense, but I dont have the time (because of the food bar) to search every single wall I come across. Something as basic and required as food should not be hidden behind doors, especially since the warrior takes so long to find them. Fighting rats? Okay there should be at least little piles of mystery meat. Gnolls? Should have some just sitting where I interrupted their meal. Food should not be this hard to find.

I had to use the wiki to look up what a garden room was. And I have to say that I have never seen one.

And what about the fact that ALL gear (if there is any at all) you find is cursed? And that there are no wands or thrown weapons anywhere?

gravling

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #184 on: May 04, 2013, 06:02:14 PM »
If you have never seen a garden room, after 100 tries, then you are missing lots of secret doors.

irajacobs

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #185 on: May 04, 2013, 06:25:54 PM »
I have played nearly 100 times, and only 3 times have I made it to the Goo.
This is a ROGUELIKE game, which are inherently supposed to be difficult, though it sounds like you're having worse luck than anyone else here, or indeed doing something wrong.
My main cause of death is starving (or being so low on health because of starving that mobs one-shot me).
I've played tons of times myself, and food is NOT that rare.  You must be wasting tons of time and playing inefficiently, to be going through that much food. Don't stand around waiting for your HP to regenerate unless you absolutely have to.
*Equipment is far too rare, maybe 1 out of 5 runs will have a weapon/armor, and of those about 1/5 is usable due to strength, and those are ALWAYS without fail cursed.
Useable equipment IS rare.  On levels 1-3, I just try to put things on without identifying.  If they're cursed, I die/restart.  If they're not, I try to use them until they're identified, and hopefully I have enough strength. The game IS hard, and if you get to level 3 and don't have any gear upgrades, you're pretty screwed.
*Potions are basically useless since you have to drink them to find out what they do and I almost never see a second one of the same color.
There are 2 types of potions essential to your survival - Healing and Strength. There are also Experience potions but those are very rare. Since they're so essential, you have no choice but to try to drink potions.  I usually do it on level 2 or 3 when I'm down to ~half health.  Stand in water (in case it's a fire potion), be ready to go through a door (to avoid poison/paralysis gas), and risk it.  You have no choice but to do this. Welcome to a roguelike game!
*Scrolls are a little better since they are generally useful
IIRC, there's only ONE bad type of Scroll, and that's Challenge (calls all the enemies to you). I wouldn't read them unless you have a piece of equipment you want to upgrade/identify, because you don't want to waste those scrolls.
*Classes: Wizard is useless as there are no wands anywhere.
Chalk that one up to luck.  If you DO get a wand (especially fireball) the Wizard can kick some serious butt, so good luck!
Warrior is mildly useless because the rogue does just as much damage (due to attack speed) while also using a lot less food. Warrior generally starves to death by the end of floor 3.
What makes you think the Rogue has a faster attack speed?  I don't think that's the case, unless you're talking about Shuriken/knuckleduster, which are faster WEAPONS (they work the same for a Wizard), but do much less damage than the Warrior's sword.  Warrior is far easier since you start with 11 Str and a better weapon that you can use 1 upgrade scroll on risk-free, AND when you eat any food, it heals you.  If you're at full HP, wait until you've starved a bit until you eat, don't waste those potential HP. Plus, you get pre-identified Strength potions. Personally, I haven't found the rogue's 'eat-less' ability to be very useful.  Again, you must be wasting TONS of time if you're having that much trouble with starving.  Wait until you're actually Starving (not just hungry) before eating, and remember that healing wells 'feed' you, and rooms of regrowth heal you faster than starving will kill you. 

You need to position yourself so that the monster is in the doorway before you whack them.  Then they cannot dodge as well, and you kill them faster.
That's not true.  The only difference a doorway makes is that you can funnel monsters and ensure you're only fighting 1 at a time, and if you manage to surprise a monster, the FIRST attack will have a bonus to it. Once the monster knows you're there, there's no combat advantage to a doorway.
you are probably missing some secret doors that lead to rooms with food in them.  Because while food is rare enough that there is a challenge, it's not as rare as you state in my games.
On the first couple of levels, I don't see many hidden doors/rooms, but gravling's right that food is not that rare.  If you've "completed" a level, but there is a large uncovered part of the map (which is always the same dimensions), it might be worthwhile to look for a hidden entrance.

Enemies almost never dodge my attacks as it is. And looking at the average damage, the warriors sword does 6, and the rogues knuckles does 3, but with the rogue attacking twice a round that is the same dps as the warrior. I will try the door thing though.
If you rarely miss enemies, consider yourself lucky. Warrior's weapon does more damage AND he starts with more Strength. It makes a big difference. As stated above - Rogue doesn't attack any faster, the knuckleduster is just a faster weapon.  It says so right in the description.

I search anywhere that makes sense, but I dont have the time (because of the food bar) to search every single wall I come across. Something as basic and required as food should not be hidden behind doors, especially since the warrior takes so long to find them. Fighting rats? Okay there should be at least little piles of mystery meat. Gnolls? Should have some just sitting where I interrupted their meal. Food should not be this hard to find.
The game is very hard, and very rewarding when you manage to survive. Don't be so butthurt about it.
what about the fact that ALL gear (if there is any at all) you find is cursed? And that there are no wands or thrown weapons anywhere?
See above. It's rare enough, but not as bad as you're crying about.

I suggest you keep trying as Warrior until you manage to beat the Goo, since it's by far the easiest class. I've beat the game with all 3 classes. Good luck with your drops and your combat!

gravling

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #186 on: May 04, 2013, 08:27:34 PM »
It may only be the first attack that works out better than all of them if done to an enemy in the doorway, but then if
you are a warrior and it only takes 2 attacks to kill pretty much anything but sewer crabs on levels 1-5, then that is
a big advantage.  I think that flamewolf has got to be longpressing heal-me a fair bit to be always dying of starvation --  I generally have to be wearing a cursed ring of satiety for that to occur.  So if he gets hurt less, this will help him
not starve.

But I actually think that all attacks go better when your opponent is in a doorway.  But then, I figured this out myself before having ever made it to level 9 or whereever that message is shown -- and when getting past Goo was my beginners 'haven't done it yet' I am not sure I was in a position to notice if all my attacks were going better, or just my first one.

I think enemies fight best in an open area, next best in corridors, and least best in doorways.

Watabou?

« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 08:31:39 PM by gravling »

carpii

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #187 on: May 04, 2013, 10:24:00 PM »
Either I am completely missing something or this is the hardest dungeon crawl of all time...

I agree. I've been playing roguelike games for 20 years, and whilst I'm addicted to Pixel Dungeons, Im getting really weary by just how mercilessly brutal the difficulty is. Im very grateful to the author for making it free though, my comment is more about improving the game balance rather than a criticism.

Quote
I have played nearly 100 times, and only 3 times have I made it to the Goo.

Mine wasn't quite that bad. I'd estimate I've played around 100 games too, got to the goo 5 times, and only today did I get past the goo.

My gripe is that getting past the goo requires an enormous amount of luck, with very little skill element coming into play. You need a wand of fire, or buffed armor and a decent weapon, and in 90% of runs the game simply doesn't give them to you, so goo death is inevitable.

All I can say is, run away from the goo when it looks like its going to explode. Also stand in water if you can, since if the goo does explode over you, I've heard it washes it off so you take smaller damage.

Once in a while you will find a room with a single use medicine chest in the center.
You should save this until you are starving and low on health, as it fixes appetite too (even if it means going down a level or two and coming back to visit it), although food is rarely the reason I die, its usually because the monsters have become too tough and I dont have good enough equipment

Quote
*Potions are basically useless since you have to drink them to find out what they do and I almost never see a second one of the same color.
*Scrolls are a little better since they are generally useful when you try them out.

They're worth drinking simply to identify them, and if you get a potion of strength or even a level up potion, then woopy doo.
Another tip for identifying potions is to always remember which potions you've picked up on the current level.
If you see a wooden blockade on that level, then you know one of the potions on this level is a fire potion (you need to throw the potion at it in order to progress).

For scrolls, make sure you are near water, so at least if its a scroll of fire you can douse it all before it burns the rest of your scrolls.
Dont read a scroll until you have at least one item which is unidentified. That way if its a scroll of identify you haven't wasted it.

I agree the first 4 levels are way too difficult though. The author seriously needs to give the player a break once in a while, even if it was once in 20 games you got a kickass weapon (and enough strength potions to actually use it), or an amulet of resurrection, it would keep things more interesting.

My advice is to stick with it. When you eventually get past the goo, you'll like the game a bit more as it starts to involve at least a bit of skill instead of 90% luck.

My one and only time I got past the goo tonight, I managed to get to level 10.
I went back to see the shopkeeper to get some food, and there was a thief running around the level.
He stole my heavily improved weapon, so I chased him into the shop and killed him, at which point he dropped my weapon in the shop.
When I tried to pick it up, it was considered a shopkeeper item, and the shopkeeper wanted 3200 gold for it :~(

After that it was all downhill
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 10:37:40 PM by carpii »

irajacobs

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #188 on: May 04, 2013, 11:43:20 PM »
*ahem* unrelated to all the crybabies, I wanted to start a new Warrior, so I did some testing with all the stuff I'd saved up on my current one.  Screenshots are available if anyone doesn't believe me, LOL

In the past, every other time I upgraded an Enchanted weapon, going from +3 to +4, it reads:
"Interaction of different types of magic has negated the enchantment on this weapon!"
and loses the enchantment, to be a plain +4 weapon. 


The same thing happened when I upgraded Venomous mace +3 (to plain mace +4)

But I used my 4 remaining upgrade scrolls (yep, I saved up FIVE haha) on a Decelerating war hammer and it got up to +4 and retained Decelerating. 

Watabou is it based on the weapon tier, type, or just luck, whether it strips the enchantment?  Do you plan on making a tier 4, 5, or higher weapon that is Fast like the Mace? 

Looking forward to the update, it should be any minute now, right? </wishful_thinking>

irajacobs

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #189 on: May 05, 2013, 12:48:32 AM »
After starting a new warrior, I died once (expected) and on my 2nd try beat the ooze:


I threw shurikens and darts at him, didn't let him stand in water, and when I got cornered and was about to be smacked by a pumped up ooze, I read an unidentified scroll, which luckily was a fear scroll, giving me time to eat some food and regain a bit of health while he ran away.  Directly after beating the ooze, here's my status:

I have the plain starting sword, not upgraded, but I was lucky enough to find leather +3 and upgraded it to +4.  I found 2 str potions putting me at 13 strength, and for later, I have a longsword +1 and platemail +1, plus some other junk I will be selling. 

I have 2 pairs of unidentified potions.  One type is probably healing, since the shop is selling each of these colors, and the shop always has healing potions, I believe. 


I have 1 ration of food, 5 shurikens and 4 darts left.  Before going shopping. 

I had 1071 gold (before selling anything) which allowed me to get an ankh (the most important part). 

Point is: yes the game's hard, but sometimes you get lucky. 



gravling

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #190 on: May 05, 2013, 02:53:37 AM »
Wishlist:
I think it would be neat if, when you get all the way to the bottom with one class of character and you have already accomplished this feat with another class, or both other classes the game would make an animated version of your previously successful character -- just walking around.  I suppose some magical force would have to keep you from being able to attack your other selves ....

gravling

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #191 on: May 05, 2013, 02:57:47 AM »
problem with the thief/store interaction

If you hit the thief so that more than one piece of gold ends up on the floor of the shop, that gold becomes something that you have to buy rather than something you can just pick up.  What's worse is, so does anything else the thief dropped on that same square when he died.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 07:57:35 AM by gravling »

flamewolf393

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #192 on: May 05, 2013, 05:42:03 AM »
I think that flamewolf has got to be longpressing heal-me a fair bit to be always dying of starvation --  I generally have to be wearing a cursed ring of satiety for that to occur.  So if he gets hurt less, this will help him
not starve.

I had actually not even noticed that you could replenish health by waiting until a couple tries ago, so I have never done the wait-to-heal. I am just starving that fast. I explore every room on a level, then search the couple places that look like they should have secret doors, then go down to the next level. No wasted time that I can tell.

Septa

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #193 on: May 05, 2013, 11:13:08 AM »
problem with the thief/store interaction

If you hit the thief so that more than one piece of gold ends up on the floor of the shop, that gold becomes something that you have to buy rather than something you can just pick up.  What's worse is, so does anything else the thief dropped on that same square when he died.

I quite like the fact that everything that drop in a store is sold by the owner. It can be frustrating, but it's funny.

But the current interaction with the merchant are a bit too simple for my taste. If you try to attack him he just disapear, you can't stole item like in a lot of roguelike. In game stealing (  with a lot of risks and consequences )  is fun.

Aron0621

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Re: Pixel Dungeon
« Reply #194 on: May 05, 2013, 12:27:32 PM »
Bug: You can magically feel the door(which you have seen before) opening even if you can`t see them now. May alert player the location of a mob.