RPG roguelike

[TheCakePie]

I really enjoy 2D top down rpg games such as zelda or Pokemon. I also really enjoy the difficulty and randomness of roguelike games. I was wondering if there are any games that combine these 2 elements into 1 awesome game. I understand that roguelikes are in some ways already rpgs (adom is an example ) but they just seem to be a lot more complicated. With all of the stats and numbers the game can become alot less casual then I would like it to be. I do not want to constantly be worrying about the hundreds of stats my player has and then the hundreds of stats each item has. A more casual zelda + some roguelike elements is what I am looking for. Anyone know if there are games like this?

DUDE. You must play Azure Dreams. You may not have heard of it because it's a console game (PS1) but it's one of my all-time faves. It combines Pokemon, town development (with fun, optional minigames), and a glorious rogue tower. You collect and train pets who come into the tower with you, you basically level those guys up and try to beat the tower. It's such a terrific game and though it's 2D isometric it feels old-school enough. If you try it out let me know what you think.

[kraflab]

I really enjoy 2D top down rpg games such as zelda or Pokemon. I also really enjoy the difficulty and randomness of roguelike games. I was wondering if there are any games that combine these 2 elements into 1 awesome game. I understand that roguelikes are in some ways already rpgs (adom is an example ) but they just seem to be a lot more complicated. With all of the stats and numbers the game can become alot less casual then I would like it to be. I do not want to constantly be worrying about the hundreds of stats my player has and then the hundreds of stats each item has. A more casual zelda + some roguelike elements is what I am looking for. Anyone know if there are games like this?

DUDE. You must play Azure Dreams. You may not have heard of it because it's a console game (PS1) but it's one of my all-time faves. It combines Pokemon, town development (with fun, optional minigames), and a glorious rogue tower. You collect and train pets who come into the tower with you, you basically level those guys up and try to beat the tower. It's such a terrific game and though it's 2D isometric it feels old-school enough. If you try it out let me know what you think.

Oh man oh man!  Azure dreams!  I played that on my gameboy color, oh the nostalgia 

[TheCakePie]

It's so nice to see someone else who's played Azure Dreams. I didn't realize it was released as a handheld game, I can't really imagine playing it on a small screen.

I used to draw the girlfriends when my hands worked. I had skills of an artist back then. Who was your fave lady?

[kraflab]

Honestly, besides the tower and pets/monsters I have no memory of the game, besides the fact that it was an enjoyable experience

Perhaps I should play it again...

[getter77]

It's so nice to see someone else who's played Azure Dreams. I didn't realize it was released as a handheld game, I can't really imagine playing it on a small screen.

I used to draw the girlfriends when my hands worked. I had skills of an artist back then. Who was your fave lady?

There is a semi-sequel called Tao's Adventure on the Nintendo DS----has pretty spiffy temple music.  Otherwise, the handheld version does handle pretty differently than the PSX one, so each can stand solidly apart.

[TheCakePie]

Without playing the handheld version I can't truly compare them but I can't imagine it being better on HH than on PS1. It can be emulated on PC, and if someone were so inclined I'd recommend getting the PS1 Rom.

As for the Tao's Adventure, nice, never played that. I'll look around for that and throw it into my ever-growing queue.

[Psiweapon]

Here are some ideas I had some time ago that I think would help meshing RPG and roguelike:

1: An outdoors map rather than a dungeon (AFAIK FFHtR and GearHead do that)
    1.1: You can still have dungeons scattered here and there (FFHtR does that too)

2: A sufficiently pool of "story relevant" places from which some are drawn to create a randomized plot (I don't think that a wholly randomized plot would work / I don't know how the fork you make that)

e.g.: Imagine such a pool consists of a "natural" monster lair, an advanced civilization's remains, an ice palace, a lake and a town. (no TvTropes trap for those two ; )

The game could draw monster lair, advanced civilization's remains and ice palace. Then you'd have to go to the monster lair, clean it and grab a McGuffin that let's you access the advanced civilization's remains. And then there you'd get another McGuffin that lets you access the ice palace an beat the Big Bad in there.

For sidequests, there could be creatures (npc's) that are looking for whatever McGuffin / trying to accomplish whatever goal, for the most inane of reasons (as always, Inconsequentia is called like that for something) and you can help them out. Or not, and butcher them for the sweet, sweet XP and loot.

To beat some sense into such absurdity, places, creatures, items et cetera could have some "flavor" traits, e.g. firey, electricky, crafty, spooky, techy, whatever; and so a frosty magicky big bad would live in a frosty magicky castle, surrounded by frosty magicky countriside populated with frosty magicky underlings such as evil penguins and snow golems (which might be friendly if you share such traits) ; and require a Firey Mighty or Firey Techy McGuffin/artifact to defeat. Such an item would be guarded by a Threshold Guardian which need only share one of the artifact's flavor traits (firey, mighty or techy) thus giving room for variety.

Another interesting idea would be generating the game environment AROUND the character: You could make a spooky, techy hero, and the game would generate holy and/or magicky bosses and plot-relevant places to defeat/overcome, and maybe place a spooky foresty monster den or a techy electricky ivory tower where you could equally rest and make friends or go rampaging around.

Basically, using elemental rock-paper-scissors with at least two sets of both conventional and unconventional "elements" (flavors/themes) as a way of giving some shape and sense to a randomized story.

[wire_hall_medic]

It sounds like what you're looking for is story.  And to really have an effective story, I think you're looking for something without permadeath (hear me out, guys).

No matter how compelling the story, if every time you die you start over, it stops being interesting.  If you have to sit through the most beautifully crafted opening scene ever made twenty times, you don't care any more.  Although it'd be interesting to watch an experienced player play, imagine having to start the same book over and over and over.

Further, while dying with a character you've put 100+ hours into is an emotional experience, it isn't the character your sad to see go; it's the progress.  Characters in permadeath games are, by definition, disposable and replaceable.

I'd recommend checking out the Wii version of Shiren the Wanderer.  The story and characters are interesting, the gameplay is engaging (I found the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games mechanically dull), and the punishment for death is loss of all items and money that you're carrying.  It can require quite a bit of grinding to get back up to strength to continue the story, but keeping your levels and progress is a bid difference.  I'd much rather spend 2 hours grinding loot than 20 getting this far again.

I love permadeath Roguelikes; I've played more DoomRL than 95% of games I've paid money for.  But mechanically, they're not well suited for an engaging story; story structure is beginning - middle - end, and permadeath drops you out of that.