Author Topic: Fame Feedback Thread  (Read 42285 times)

TheCreator

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Fame Feedback Thread
« on: July 10, 2012, 07:35:36 PM »
Fame has been present on the Temple of the Roguelike for months, but I haven't received much feedback so far. And I desperately need it, because while I always know what to implement next, I'm not so sure I know what players want. I can see that for some reason incubator threads are much more effective way to collect feedback, so I've created this topic. All your opinions are welcome!

Download:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/untitled-rpg/

RogueBasin entry:

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/Fame
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 06:22:10 PM by UglyTroll »
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

Darren Grey

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 09:32:08 PM »
It needs a name.  It really really needs a name.  "Untitled" is not a name, and you will never get anyone to play it whilst it's called that.

Alex E

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2012, 02:08:28 AM »
So I downloaded and tried a few games.

I liked the main menu first of all. After admiring it for a good 6 seconds, I pressed New Game.
I set my stats, age, and such first. Kind of wish there was a way to tell what things such as "Appearance" or "Founding" do. Also, does age do anything, or is it just there?

I moved around, but I couldn't figure out the controls other than that. After checking the controls screen, I can safely say I don't like them. Not sure why you really need to add "Shift" or "Ctrl" into so many commands. Anyway, I accepted some quest from a lady to go into her basement and kill some monsters. After going in, I tried to fire some arrows with my bow at some orcs and skeletons, but they did absolutely nothing, and the baddies ended up killing me.
In my second game, I just used a sword and killed everything with no problem. What really annoyed me is that whenever I check my inventory (i) I have to move my already comfortable right hand from the numpad over to the mouse and press the "Close" button with it. Shouldn't I just have to press "i" again to close the inventory? Oh well. Also it took me a while to figure out how to drop items. Maybe make it more obvious that the left of the inventory screen is what's on the ground? I also found a telekinesis spell, but attempting to read it told me that it's too complicated for me. Does that mean that my intelligence is too low? Or what? About a third of the doors in this dungeon triggered a trap and I never figured out how to tell if a door activates one or not.
After the lady paid me for killing all of the baddies in her basement, I accepted another quest from some guy to deliver something to some mining camp. I went through a few wilderness levels, until I finally died to some green things named something that started with "T".
For my third life I decided to go north to the tower on my map. After just running through 10 or so levels without any problems I entered a new level that made an error pop up on my screen. It said that it couldn't load some npc script or something, and upon pressing "Ok" it closed my game.

Something that makes the game incredibly easy when going through the wilderness is that enemies cannot pass to other levels. So if you can quickly run through a level then the enemies don't have enough time to reach you.

 I found some rocks with paint(?) on them, but I didn't know how to mine them, if I even could, so I continued onward. I found some sort of snow fortress, which was neat. One thing that I like about this game is the the amount of things hidden around the wilderness. It really encourages exploration. I continued exploring until the error popped up again and the game crashed.

More games, more exploring, more errors and crashes. Is this happening to anyone else?



Other than that, I really recommend adding some sort of tutorial with a test level or something that shows how the game works for new players.

What did I like? Well the menu for one thing. Other than that, exploring was actually pretty fun. Some people may hate this, but I liked that the world was not randomly generated. It made for a much more directed adventure with a much more defined goal (Not that I played enough to figure out what that goal was). This is probably the only roguelike I've played that has its own world editor with its own programming language. There's a lot to like in this game, but too bad that it kept crashing on me.




« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 04:14:12 AM by Mosenzov »

TheCreator

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 04:39:58 PM »
@Mosenzov: Many thanks for the feedback!

I set my stats, age, and such first. Kind of wish there was a way to tell what things such as "Appearance" or "Founding" do. Also, does age do anything, or is it just there?

Yes, I should definitively add some tips to that window. Currently Age does not do anything and neither does Appearance, that could be quite confusing for a player, I must admit.

Quote
I moved around, but I couldn't figure out the controls other than that. After checking the controls screen, I can safely say I don't like them. Not sure why you really need to add "Shift" or "Ctrl" into so many commands.

I could assign those commands to other, "free" letters, but I would be harder to remember (at least for me). Anyway I plan to add a feature for customizing keyboard layout, so that [almost] everybody should be happy.

Quote
After going in, I tried to fire some arrows with my bow at some orcs and skeletons, but they did absolutely nothing, and the baddies ended up killing me.

Yeah, I always liked swords more so I didn't pay much attention to different types of weapons... My bad. Bows are currently much more difficult to master than "ordinary" weapons. Generally the game needs more balancing, I guess.

Quote
What really annoyed me is that whenever I check my inventory (i) I have to move my already comfortable right hand from the numpad over to the mouse and press the "Close" button with it. Shouldn't I just have to press "i" again to close the inventory?

You should! I don't know [yet] why it doesn't work for the inventory window, used to work in the past. Anyway, you can still use the Esc key to close windows.

Quote
About a third of the doors in this dungeon triggered a trap and I never figured out how to tell if a door activates one or not.

You need the 'Traps' skill for that. Detecting traps is not very smooth even if you have mastered the skill, though. Perhaps it's not that big problem, on the other hand. Traps in Untitled are not as dangerous as in other roguelikes. You should not die unless you are very low on HP. I'll rethink the problem.

Quote
For my third life I decided to go north to the tower on my map. After just running through 10 or so levels without any problems I entered a new level that made an error pop up on my screen. It said that it couldn't load some npc script or something, and upon pressing "Ok" it closed my game.

That's a very weird one as the script file it complains about actually exists in the data archive. I was unable to reproduce the failure so far, but I will surely not ignore it. The error looks quite easy to fix, as soon as I manage to reproduce it on my computer.

Quote
Other than that, I really recommend adding some sort of tutorial with a test level or something that shows how the game works for new players.

Tutorials are quite hard to implement and I always hated them as a player, so I decided not to have them in Untitled. Perhaps I'll change my mind at some point, but for now I'll rather stick to the idea of making user interface more friendly/intuitive, that should be enough...

It needs a name.  It really really needs a name.  "Untitled" is not a name, and you will never get anyone to play it whilst it's called that.

Well, maybe you are right. I'll reconsider that. But if I ever change the name, it shall be changed to something big, I will not just pick the first idea that comes into my mind, so it may take some time :).
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 10:30:35 AM »
  Well now. Let us just hijack this thread with names.


Millennium [since you've been developing since the millennium]

Bedarogue [Your name]

Decadence [Get it? Decade?]

ZOMGIHAVENAMEPLAYME

  I'm not keen on those, but you do need a name. Seriously. If you want much feedback.



Darren Grey

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 01:04:24 PM »
Just to clarify on why a name is important:

1. It's the first impression anyone gets of your game.  It can define the theme, tone, and playstyle of the game, and just having an interesting name can motivate people to try it.
2. It's a way of getting people to remember your game.
3. It lets people talk about your game out of context without being confusing.
4. It allows your game to show up on Google searches.
5. It lets you stand out from other titles (I've seen lots of other projects called "Untitled" or something similar).
6. It shows you have imagination and creativity.  If you can't think up a name for your game then I must presume you can't think up interesting monsters, items, combat, etc.  Are the monsters just called green creature, white creature, etc?
7. It shows you have something unique to offer.  Calling your game "Untitled" makes me think "Generic Fantasy Roguelike 2574".  Reading your RogueBasin article I'm guessing this is *not* what you want.
8. "Untitled" is at best pretentious, and at worst boooooooring.  Do you want to be either?  :P

Example of a good game name (with some hubris thrown in): Broken Bottle
Recognisable term, alliterative, and easily memorable.  Stands out as a strange name for a roguelike (I know some people tried the game out just because of this) which is good because as a roguelike it is a bit different.  It straight away implies that this is not a fantasy roguelike, and has a gritty, violent theme (well, most RLs are violent, but then that's why so many have violence or quest themed names).  The name ties in with the theme (alcoholism) and some of the gameplay elements, whilst also being an allegory itself for the main character and the whole game world.  Reference to a broken bottle is made in two important pieces of the game text.

All of that in two words.

Someone once asked me on IRC why I called the game "Broken Bottle".  I started with a long description of how it represents the mental state of the main character, the social state of society and the physical state of the world in the game.  After my long explanation I started going into it's connection with the mechanics, at which point I was interrupted by the guy who said "Oh, so it's about an alcoholic then.  Why didn't you just say that?"  :P

kraflab

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 09:27:54 PM »
I don't know latin but is there some fancy way of saying "untitled" in latin?  That might be a nice way to make it stand out but keep the original meaning to some extent.  Just a thought.

Ancient

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 10:12:22 PM »
A latin word for 'title' would be 'titulus'. No idea how to change form to make it into untitled.

I downloaded Untitled and found out it was the third version I had on my disk. Looks like I wanted to try it earlier but was not even motivated to extract it. That brings me to another point. Rar is fringe archiver in the Linux world. Some of us will need to get and install unrar first. Then it turns out the executable does not have execute privileges.

No real name for the game + uncommon archiver for target platform + lack of correct file permissions = turn off.

I shall try again some other day. Right now all my motivation to try the game out was killed.
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike

kraflab

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 10:24:56 PM »
A latin word for 'title' would be 'titulus'. No idea how to change form to make it into untitled.

I downloaded Untitled and found out it was the third version I had on my disk. Looks like I wanted to try it earlier but was not even motivated to extract it. That brings me to another point. Rar is fringe archiver in the Linux world. Some of us will need to get and install unrar first. Then it turns out the executable does not have execute privileges.

No real name for the game + uncommon archiver for target platform + lack of correct file permissions = turn off.

I shall try again some other day. Right now all my motivation to try the game out was killed.

You similarly mentioned that execute permissions were missing from epilogue when you extracted it.  They were there when I put it in, so is there any chance the issue is on your end?  I don't know enough about specifics with Linux so if there is something we are missing feel free to enlighten us :)

I ditto the rar sentiment.  I actually didn't download this when I saw it specifically because I didn't want to install something to open a rar.  Why did you choose that?

Ancient

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 10:36:05 PM »
For Epilogue, yes, there could be some kind of issue on my end. On the other hand in the second archive you made (the one after I pointed out the .gz suffix was not right) execute permission was there.

For Untitled this is most probably author's fault. Rar does not store file permissions at all according to this.
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike

TheCreator

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 07:47:24 PM »
Okay, I'm already convinced :). Will need some time to choose the best name, though.

I shall try again some other day. Right now all my motivation to try the game out was killed.

Oh no, that's not the proper point of view. The Linux version just contain an extra quest. You need to obtain an ancient artifact called RAR, then use it to access the secret dungeon, Archive. There a powerful mage lives under the name of Chmod. He knows a legendary magical spell a+x which will open the gateway to all other quests.
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

kraflab

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 09:23:01 PM »
I shall try again some other day. Right now all my motivation to try the game out was killed.

Oh no, that's not the proper point of view. The Linux version just contain an extra quest. You need to obtain an ancient artifact called RAR, then use it to access the secret dungeon, Archive. There a powerful mage lives under the name of Chmod. He knows a legendary magical spell a+x which will open the gateway to all other quests.

And that is not the proper response to a legitimate question/complaint.

Darren Grey

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 03:19:57 AM »
Zip is more accessible to Windows users too. At work I'm not able to install the likes of WinRar and must rely on Windows' native zip support.

TheCreator

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2012, 09:29:39 AM »
People are becoming so lazy nowadays. I remember my first encounter with the RAR file format, some like 15 years ago. The game was stored on 40 floppy disks or so, each one contained a RAR archive. I had to find a program called "unrar", learn how to use it, copy all of the floppy content to a hard disk, note down the damaged floppies (if you had something on 40 floppy disks, 5 out of them would always be damaged), request from a buddy to copy those damaged disks again (and hope that he'll copy the right ones), wait until another day, bring home new 5 disks, attempt to copy them to a hard disk, find out that 2 of them are still damaged... Yeah, those were the days. And now we download a game and we are too lazy to run it. Myself I currently have about ten new roguelikes I have recently downloaded but did not find time to unpack and play them. That's what internet has done to us :).
Fame (Untitled) - my game. Everything is a roguelike.

Ancient

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Re: Untitled Feedback Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2012, 08:36:03 PM »
Uh, dude! This is plain hypocrisy. You are putting obstacles in front of other people for no real reason. Many Linux users will have to spend 15 minutes to get to Untitled. First getting unrar and learning it. Not every repository out there has it since it is not free software. Users of Ubuntu or similar distributions might have no idea about execution privileges stuff and fail to run your game at all. In contrast you could spend 15 minutes yourself to save that headache every person that does not have rar installed. To top it off you accuse other people of laziness.

To make an analogy I would have to put my feedback in a .txt file but rename it to .exe and then pack it with xz archiver.

If a game is very good people are willing to jump through hoops. Your example with floppies is one such proof. For something without excellent reputation this is not likely. Wondering why you did not receive much feedback? Hint: using rar has something to do with it.

That said my thoughts on Untitled will come.
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike