MicRogue - Update Jun 19th

[jasonpickering]

I guess a big thing is does the player always know their score? or is it only at the end that the player can see it.

The other thing I worry about is using score, but not making the game endless, there by letting people jsut go for a high score, but an endless version of this game just is not feasible, with the difficulty curve.

[kraflab]

I think maybe there should be alternate score modes.  For instance, killing all the monsters would be an option, but perhaps killing none of the monsters would also be a challenge (maybe not with the current group, but in the long term).  You don't want everything to be bundled together because then it is just a question of min-maxing what the best strategy is for points, and you'll end up with everyone doing speed for example.  Of course, you can still get things like killing all the monsters in as few turns as possible, so perhaps the key is just to balance the scoring system adequately.

[jasonpickering]

So I added the score in and I don't know how I feel about it. The player starts with 10 coins and loses one for each step. when they kill a monster they get 2 * (Kills ins a row) for that monster, meaning that getting monsters in a line is the best way for high scores.

I think I need to look at the scores purpose though. Am I using it for replayability or am I actually trying to use it for something interesting. Currently I think its the first one. I am not trying to do anything interesting with it its just to add replay. Perhaps I should look into chess scoring. That might give me a good idea of how to proceed forward.

[Darren Grey]

A bonus for killing enemies seems wrong to me. Perhaps just x coins for beating a level in under y turns. Maybe gold / silver / bronze medals for performance tiers.

[jasonpickering]

that could work. I do agree that in playing it the killing of enemies seems like a slow down. I could do the bronze/silver/gold thing for each dungeon, but then I think that once a player gets the gold they will be done with that dungeon.

[st33d]

Just tried the latest version. Pretty much nailed the right length for the game. I had barely enough turns to get back to the stairs on level 3 so that was fairly exciting.

Looking forward to replaying for different dungeons.

[jasonpickering]

Alright so more work on the game and I have been thinking about score, stats, and difficulty.

The biggest question I need to answer is how long is a game. is it one treasure long? or is it several treasures constantly running in and out grabbing items for the king seeing how many you can do in a row. I think the one Treasure works much better.

Next we need to think about what a good game consists of (Or how I want a good game to be represented). It should be rushing in and out without wasting time. So the main score will probably be steps. meaning monsters are there, to hinder your forward movement.

Next we need to think about Difficulty. Now I think this is the hardest part of the current game. Although in a standard chess game there are stronger pieces. The main thing defining how a dangerous a piece is its overall board location in relation to everything else. This I have no control over, but I think I can get a good curve of difficulty, just be doing a lot of game play. I can also add more enemies to make the game more difficult, and change some rules for specific dungeons.

[Snargleplax]

I think the length is good, but it would be cool to get some variety from game to game.  Go for a different treasure, fight a different set of monsters, etc.  The treasures could give you some kind of special ability, so you get some fun on the way back out (and this means you can handle slightly tougher monsters).

[jasonpickering]

Yeah I plan on trying to add variety. I am currently working on the next Dungeon which is the Dojo. It will only have ninjas in it, it will be pretty difficult I imagine. I also plan on adding other treasures and giving the player a little screen showing them what treasures they have found. I also need to start adding in more and more new monsters. this should really add to the variety of it. You do mention Tougher monsters. What do you see as tougher monsters or what would make monsters more challenging?

[Snargleplax]

Yeah I plan on trying to add variety. I am currently working on the next Dungeon which is the Dojo. It will only have ninjas in it, it will be pretty difficult I imagine. I also plan on adding other treasures and giving the player a little screen showing them what treasures they have found. I also need to start adding in more and more new monsters. this should really add to the variety of it. You do mention Tougher monsters. What do you see as tougher monsters or what would make monsters more challenging?

Well, there's no end to the possible movement dynamics like those you've come up with already.  Let me see if I can brainstorm anything good:

• A turret that rotates 90 degrees every step, and kills you if it gets line of sight.
• An enemy that turns invisible every other step (this could be good for ninjas).
• An enemy that kills you if you're diagonal to it.
• Mama enemies that hatch baby enemies, enemies that clone themselves, stuff like that.
• Pairs of teleportation squares that move around at random.

Yeah, stuff like that.

[jasonpickering]

so is it just that variety adds difficulty or is it more about the giving enemies a bigger range to cause difficulty.

and Also the Idea of The invisible enemy I already have. Its a ghost, and can only be seen when its moving. It Appears, laughs, and then moves to a spot and then vanishes. The player is then required to remember where the ghost is. I want to do a haunted house dungeon that is only invisible ghosts.

the teleportation traps could be fun.

[Snargleplax]

I think the difficulty comes from having to figure out the novel tactical situations coming out of different combinations of enemies.  Since the number of combinations increases faster with each new enemy you introduce, a bit more variety could go a long way.

Some enemies are just tougher than others; it's hard to characterize why in a general way.  The slimes are pretty simple and easy to avoid.  The chess knight guys get me all the time because I don't notice them, or forget they move like that.  But I've seen them enough times that it feels fair (my fault), so it's good difficulty.

I really like the eye swapper guys.  They don't kill you, they just complicate the tactical situation in ways that are sometimes good and sometimes perilous.

[AgingMinotaur]

I want to do a haunted house dungeon that is only invisible ghosts.

Great idea. The player would really have to struggle to keep the overview.

For these themed dungeons (like the Dojo you described earlier), are you going to have subclasses of monsters? Eg. other ninja types, who might move like other chess pieces. (Elephant of Chinese chess could work; the shogun you're sent to assassinate could move as the king.)

As always,
Minotauros

[jasonpickering]

AgingMinotaur:
I plan on seperating out and figuring otu what enemies work in what areas, Ninjas will probably not be in the Cave and Slimes will probably not be in the Dojo. I also wont have duplicate enemies. There will not be a ninja that moves the same way the a blob does. I might make another ninja, but it will be its own character.

I tried finding stuff on the elelephant. How exactly does it work?

Snargleplax: Yeah I think the game all comes down to board placement, and enemies that change board placement are fantastic for the gameplay. Ninja and Eye Swapper being the Biggest examples.

[jasonpickering]

so working on a tileset for a Dojo



and some treasures