Shadow over Innsmouth (Hide and Seek)

[jasonpickering]

So I was thinking about this, while reading Shadow Over Innsmouth and would like some feedback. it would be based off the Story somewhat. so you are the main character and you need to escape Innsmouth, while the townsfolk hunt you down. you basically need to survive for a certain amount of time, while monsters spawn looking for you. So here are my questions:

1. has hiding/sneaking been done in a game before?
2. what would be the best way to make these monsters look for you?
3. would you play this game again after you beat it?

I basically figure this could be a super simple roguelike hopefully done in 7 days. I always wanted to do a Horror game and I think something chasing you would be pretty tense. also I thought about doing this with one larger monster instead of a town of people.

[Krice]

1. has hiding/sneaking been done in a game before?

Yes. Not sure if in roguelikes, but now that you mention I've planned to implement "hiding in long grass" in Teemu. It should be fun! I guess hiding is easier to implement when you actually have something hide in (like grass).

There is a very nice sneaking episode in a beginning part of Zelda: Wind Waker. Too bad the rest of the game was not that good.

[jasonpickering]

yes on further research I am thinking of doing everything based on sound as you are hunted by a blind monster. I will also have different movement systems tiptoe, walk, run each one being louder. I tried to pair the game down to one solid idea so its "Dont get heard"

[Krice]

I tried to pair the game down to one solid idea so its "Dont get heard"

Something like this (having single driving idea) could really work if done properly.

[jasonpickering]

Yeah I have basically been focusing on that. everything makes noise and everything makes different levels of sound. the main problem I am having now is I thought about doing different speeds. so the player can tip toe/walk/run. but I dont know how to speed while keeping it turnbased. I also wonder if realtime would make it more scary. knowing that while you stand here something is slowly hunting you down and you never get to rest.

what do you guys think?

[NON]

but I dont know how to speed while keeping it turnbased.

Implement a time queue like in one of these articles:

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/A_priority_queue_based_turn_scheduling_system

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/An_elegant_time-management_system_for_roguelikes

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/A_simple_turn_scheduling_system_--_Python_implementation

Just don't make it real time.

[elwin]

This sounds like a neat idea.  There's some amount of hiding and sneaking in most roguelikes, even if it's just trying to avoid monsters while you recover. DCSS does it well with stealthy characters. But I can't think of any roguelikes that make it the central focus.

Would I play it again after beating it?  If it's a well-done roguelike, it should be just as fun the second time.

[jasonpickering]

Alright Guys so trying to figure out the movement engine. right now I am having trouble with giving the character speed. the original idea was to give the player 3 speeds because I wanted you to be able to run away from this big monster chasing you. I think I might change it and the player only has 1 speed. it will make things a little easier, but I want to make it that their are a couple monsters and they have hearing ranges and all noises go different distances. so you are making loud noises to move them around the level while you sneak past them. and there will be some alcoves to hide in which will basically let them pass you so you dont get stuck
 

[NON]

I once experimented with an "interest-array" AI.

Each monster had a 2d integer array the same size as the level. The values represented the monsters interest in each cell.

If they noticed the player, a flood-fill centred on the player was made, starting with a high value for the player cell and decreasing with distance. The values from this flood fill was added to the monsters interest-array.

The monster checked which cell had the highest interest, and then moved in that direction using A* path-finding. All cells they saw were set to 0. Also, every turn each cell had their value increased by 1, to that the monsters would patrol the map a lot.

This had the nice effect that they would often do wrong guesses when they searched for the player, like here:

Code: [Select]

#########
#####...#
#######.#
#######.#
#######.#
##@.....#
##.####.#
#...###.#
#.M.###.#
#...#...#
#########
If the player reaches the junction before the monster sees him again, the monster will have to guess if it should go up or down.

I also tried making monsters "talk" to each other about finding the player, by combining the interest-arrays of monsters that met.

[jasonpickering]

wow that's pretty helpful. I will have to try that.  how much of a drain was the interest array on resources? how many enemies were there at a time.

My goal is to code this in Unity so it can be released for the iphone. and also I work by day as a 3D animator. so I hope to end up building this in 3D, but will still treat the game as 2D (like those Legend of Zeldas for the DS. they were in 3D but mechanically identical to the top down version).

as for levels I am going more Boardgame then usual cave generation. basically the "Town" will be Comprised of blocks. these blocks will be randomly chosen from prebuilt sections I have constructed. I am still thinking about the actual game mechanics. I do know several things I want though. Limited inventory, no combat, and some type of timer. I was thinking maybe that on the edge of the map is the ocean. You are a journalist/private investigator. you explore this town and try and gather information and basically that would be your "score". you can find books, take photos, overhear conversations. all of this would add more and more knowledge. as you play though more and more enemies spawn, meaning its harder and harder to maneuver. imagine pacman, without power pellets but the longer it took the more ghosts showed up. I even plan on almost all walkways to be 1 square wide passages. that will make it easier to hide. especially if they are twisty turny and should make pathing easier. the only thing I wonder about is how to escape from something chasing you. should I give the player two moves for each enemies 1?

[NON]

I don't think I noticed any slow-downs. The usual Roguelike room-and-corridor layout is cheap to run A*/flood-fill on. The way you describe your game (pacman-like layout), it should run even faster. I don't recall how many monsters there were who used this at most, but probably not so many. You can always do optimizations (or compromises) like only recalculating the path every X turn.

the only thing I wonder about is how to escape from something chasing you. should I give the player two moves for each enemies 1?

How about a command for toggling sprint mode? Sprint = 2x speed, but causes fatigue. You could also have climbing, or pushing heavy furniture in front of doors, et c - which would also cause fatigue. Standing still = fast regain of energy, walking = slow regain. Seems fitting for the running-away-theme.

[jasonpickering]

so working on this a little more. so the plan for the monsters for now is: wander AI based off of some of the ghosts in pacman. when they reach an intersection, they randomly choose a direction to go, but will never go back the way they just came. next I will use something I am calling sound flags. basically when a noise is made a sound flag item will be placed and any monsters in a certain radius will be alerted to it. they will then A*pathfind towards it to check it out. originally the idea was don't make a sound, but that has since changed to manage your sound. the player will be able to take a cue from metal gear solid and make sounds to draw monsters to other areas.

also the player will have several abilities all tied to fatigue (which I will be using as a food gauge also) and different actions lower fatigue. so running will lower it and also fighting. you cant actually fight. but I have run into some problems where I came down an alleyway and a monster was coming right for me. so you will basically be able to knock them down and continue past them. they will stay down for a few turns giving you a head start, but they are gonna scream like hell so you better hope they don't have any friends with them. Fatigue will of course only return when you rest.

[jasonpickering]

Here is a small Test.

arrows to move around and you can press Y to yell.

right now the monster (green blob) just randomly wanders and wont interact with you at all. if you yell he will get a ! and move towards where the yell was. I don't know how to do the lighting yet if I jsut want the static overlay or something a bit more dynamic. I know I don't want raycasting. it might just be tile to tile based, but dont know how to do it. The original idea was going to be you and several monsters hunting you, but just having the one monster out there in the shadows is kinda freaking scary and many times I found myself turning a corner only to be staring right at the monster and have to back up.

next up is better lighting and building out the level construction code.

[NON]

Just one monster could turn out to be a cool thing. Maybe a different monster is chosen randomly that affects the way the game plays (like one can destroy landscape, one is fast, one lays traps, one can teleport, etc). But it's hard to see at this point how the game is supposed to be.

[Serefan]

If you want a bit of ideas story- and gameplaywise, this story has been done before, but in a first person survival horror shooter called Call of Cthulhu - Dark Corners of The Earth. An example I could already give now is the healing system which featured no health bar but a system of broken bones, bleeding wounds, etc. which all affected your possibilities (ex. broken ankle made you limp). This would be an awesome system in a roguelike imho.

Secondly, since it's a Cthulhu Mythos game, it couldn't go without a sanity bar of some kind That always gives you a lot of room for horror elements and whatnot.