Portal 2

[corremn]

Few games have captured my attention like roguelikes do. Enter portal.

Anyone played Portal 2 yet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_2

[RoguelikeGCS]

I was very surprised by all the poor user reviews on metacritic. All the claims being made, such as it being an *obvious* console port, being too short, etc, are simply untrue. I'm willing to believe the theory that some users are getting revenge on Valve for some of its marketing ploys. Nevertheless, a metacritic score of 95 speaks volumes.

** SPOILERS AHEAD **

Portal 2 features:

* Potato companion
* Mind boggling test chambers
* Awesome scripted events
* Awe inspiring massive levels
* An absolutely preposterous ending that'll have you on the edge of your seat!
* Nutty voiceovers by Merchant & Simmons

[Kaskad]

it's funny how many of the things we like about roguelikes are exactly opposite to the design choices made in portal 2 - a game entirely guilty of having a short length, lack of depth and complexity, and a heavy emphasis on static plot

it has production values in its favor, but having voice actors and writers doesn't make a good game

[MrMorley]

So far I've played for 4 hours and am on chapter 7 out of the 10 shown, it'll probably take me a couple of hours to do those 3 chapters that's at least 6 hours of single-player gameplay. Actually that I've only played 4 hours surprised me, it feels longer than that but in a good way. Then again my laptop crashed once or twice (it's fan is terrible and I forgot my cooling pad) so maybe those hours didn't get counted?

Also the emphasis on Portal 1 and 2 didn't feel like they were on the plot. The plot is an amusing and entertaining addition. The emphasis is on the puzzles and figuring out what the heck I'm supposed to do to get from A to B to C.

Even if co-operative is half as short and has no replay value that's still 9 hours of gameplay which isn't too bad...but for all I know co-op does have replay value, I've not tried it yet.

More importantly the game is *fun*, the dialogue does make me laugh out loud and the puzzles have had me scratching my head at times. I tend to make things way too complicated so maybe that's the problem but I think at least 30 minutes of those 4 hours of play were on a series of three chambers -.-

I did see the twist with Wheatley coming but that's just because he was such a likeable character it was inevitable xD

[siob]

it's funny how many of the things we like about roguelikes are exactly opposite to the design choices made in portal 2 - a game entirely guilty of having a short length, lack of depth and complexity, and a heavy emphasis on static plot

it has production values in its favor, but having voice actors and writers doesn't make a good game

that's a weird way to put it. portal's production values aren't that good. it certainly relies a lot on emergent complexity built on top of simple mechanic(s).

whereas the complexity in rogue likes is more due to multitude of inter-tingled mechanics.

[corremn]

whereas the complexity in roguelikes is more due to multitude of inter-tingled mechanics.

Generally the complexity of any game is based on top of simple mechanics.  When a game fails to expand the simple mechanics into more complex one there is usually no point playing the game for longer that 5 minutes. 
This is where a lot of RLs fail (and some of my games for that matter). If you cant find a way to push the initial mechanics into something more challenging then your game is going to suck.

And yes portal is short and offers no real replay value, unless you attempt to solve it with the least amount of portals.
Add some procedurally generated content and zammo!

[Kaskad]

that's a weird way to put it. portal's production values aren't that good. it certainly relies a lot on emergent complexity built on top of simple mechanic(s).

I'm not sure how you mean the production values aren't that good - valve is famous for thorough playtesting, they scooped up some ex-Pixar animators to work on this game, and we're talking about a series that is as famous for its memes and voice acting as it is for its game mechanics, if not more.

I don't know what emergent complexity there is to find, either. It's a straightforward puzzle game with one intended way to beat each room. There are a few "hidden rooms" which are either easter eggs or bits of lore. What's emerging?

To quote from another thread:

I was first surprised that my laptop which is four years old was still able to run these games.
So what do they look like? Seems a lot of money goes in the production, real voice actors, even real actors (like martin sheen), spectacular visuals (art is a different topic, tho), all in all an equivalent of Hollywood movies in the gaming world.

And then there are reviewers from all over the web touting these products for mass consumption as something revolutionary and legendary. Ok, voice acting is breathtaking, but the rest - a typical holywood plot, space-opera cliches (in the case of ME2 it is obvious where their inspiration comes from - SF pulp from the factory of Hugo Gernsback and the like). It is sad really.

[siob]

I don't know what emergent complexity there is to find, either. It's a straightforward puzzle game with one intended way to beat each room. There are a few "hidden rooms" which are either easter eggs or bits of lore. What's emerging?

"emerging" in that there is only two things you can do: right mouse click and right mouse click (open portals) and all the puzzles build on top of those without adding any more mechanics.

whereas in a rogue you'd have dozens of inter-connected mechanics.

I was first surprised that my laptop which is four years old was still able to run these games.
So what do they look like? Seems a lot of money goes in the production, real voice actors, even real actors (like martin sheen), spectacular visuals (art is a different topic, tho), all in all an equivalent of Hollywood movies in the gaming world.

is this about portal2? the production values wrt to testing, voice acting, etc are very good. visually the production values are pretty lack luster... i mean this is the 2004 engine and all the levels look pretty much the same

[Kaskad]

"emerging" in that there is only two things you can do: right mouse click and right mouse click (open portals) and all the puzzles build on top of those without adding any more mechanics.

whereas in a rogue you'd have dozens of inter-connected mechanics.

Oh ok, we're saying the same thing then. When I hear "emergent gameplay" I think of the player using the mechanics in ways that weren't anticipated by the devs, thanks to the complexity of the system. It's hard to imagine that ever happening in a game as linear as this one. Roguelikes, on the other hand, are all about "emergence."

[jim]

Portal 2 is an awesome game. It's a stupendous one-off puzzler with a hilarious blockbuster plot. It's also the first game I've managed to finish in years, aside from the occasional Crawl ascension.

[siob]

"emerging" in that there is only two things you can do: right mouse click and right mouse click (open portals) and all the puzzles build on top of those without adding any more mechanics.

whereas in a rogue you'd have dozens of inter-connected mechanics.

Oh ok, we're saying the same thing then. When I hear "emergent gameplay" I think of the player using the mechanics in ways that weren't anticipated by the devs, thanks to the complexity of the system. It's hard to imagine that ever happening in a game as linear as this one. Roguelikes, on the other hand, are all about "emergence."

Should have chosen my words more careful. I know 'emergence' is often understood as 'doing things the devs didn't think of'. I like the broader definition better (here wikipedia):

"emergence is the way complex systems and patterns arise out of a multiplicity of relatively simple interactions."

left click, right click -> complex puzzles.

[7h30n]

Unfortunately I can't find the time to play. College + making my own roguelike is really taxing on my free time. But then again programming my own game is really fun!

The first one was amazing!