A roguelike with tight constraints

[linux_junkie]

So, I'm working on a roguelike for the Android phones, and obviously, I'm running into some rather tight constraints, given the platform.  Controls are a huge issue (no thirty plus keyboard commands allowed), and because of this, gameplay must be restricted.

So, this is my idea.  A Diablo-esque game, with point and click combat (using the touchscreen or trackball).  Skills I still haven't figured out, I'll probably allow you to set a skill to the current one via a skill tree/menu, and let the user click the skill button in the corner of the screen to activate it for use.

Magic will be handled just like skills.  The game will be realtime, with pretty nice graphics, thanks to Reiner's free tilesets.  I'm thinking a town level, with a ten to twenty level dungeon.  No quests, besides the main game quest (defeat the dark princess, who's possessed, to free her and return her to her parents).

Due to the constraints of the platform, the typically deep gameplay will have to be narrowed down to a standard hack and slash, like Diablo.  This is unfortunate, but unavoidable, I think.

My question is, what improvements can be made to this formula, considering the control constraints?  Also, what suggestions do you guys have for the basic controls, keeping in mind that not all Androids have touchscreens, not all have trackballs, and not all have keyboards.  I'll obviously have to support all possible input methods, and can't count on any one particular method being available.

I was thinking click (or touch) to walk and attack, having clickable skill, spell, and inventory buttons, and, well, that's it.  Any suggestions?

[Z]

I am also thinking about doing something for Android if I ever get time for this (as I own one and I am annoyed by not enough roguelikes for it). What do you mean by "standard hack and slash like Diablo"? Do you mean an action game? (If yes, then I don't see why this is unavoidable, and also it would be moving away from roguelikes) Diablo has inventory management and spellcasting and bows, and these things are still hard to do comfortably with constrained input.

POWDER, which is also designed for devices with input limitations (and BTW can be played on Android via Gameboy emulator, but I have not tried it a lot) uses four way movement. I think it is a good idea in this case, too. Other than that, it has a pretty standard set of roguelike actions (wear armor, wield weapons, throw missiles, drink potions etc) which are not done very comfortably using just a few additional buttons, IMO (although I have played Powder only on keyboard, so I cannot really say).

I think it would be best to have all frequently done actions available by simply pressing one of 4 direction buttons (or touching the part of touchscreen in this direction). Or maybe 4 direction buttons plus one additional, if only 4 directions is too much constraints.

I have seen somewhere (I don't remember where) an idea about "dance magic", where spells were casted by performing a sequence of moves. A similar possibility is special combat movements, also executed by a sequence of moves (like in PrincessRL). I think such ideas would work very well with restricted input.

Another idea is a game where terrain features are important. For example, things like changing equipment and loading weapons can be only done in special places. Then, special action is executed just by bumping into such a special place, so no additional keys are required.

[linux_junkie]

I am also thinking about doing something for Android if I ever get time for this (as I own one and I am annoyed by not enough roguelikes for it). What do you mean by "standard hack and slash like Diablo"? Do you mean an action game? (If yes, then I don't see why this is unavoidable, and also it would be moving away from roguelikes) Diablo has inventory management and spellcasting and bows, and these things are still hard to do comfortably with constrained input.

POWDER, which is also designed for devices with input limitations (and BTW can be played on Android via Gameboy emulator, but I have not tried it a lot) uses four way movement. I think it is a good idea in this case, too. Other than that, it has a pretty standard set of roguelike actions (wear armor, wield weapons, throw missiles, drink potions etc) which are not done very comfortably using just a few additional buttons, IMO (although I have played Powder only on keyboard, so I cannot really say).

I think it would be best to have all frequently done actions available by simply pressing one of 4 direction buttons (or touching the part of touchscreen in this direction). Or maybe 4 direction buttons plus one additional, if only 4 directions is too much constraints.

I have seen somewhere (I don't remember where) an idea about "dance magic", where spells were casted by performing a sequence of moves. A similar possibility is special combat movements, also executed by a sequence of moves (like in PrincessRL). I think such ideas would work very well with restricted input.

Another idea is a game where terrain features are important. For example, things like changing equipment and loading weapons can be only done in special places. Then, special action is executed just by bumping into such a special place, so no additional keys are required.

Yes, it'll be Diablo-esque, so a more appropriate term for the game would be an action RPG/roguelike.  It'll still feature procedurally generated content, character building, and a dungeon setting, which are, in my opinion, the key aspects that make a game a roguelike.  It may not be as pure a roguelike as, say, Angband, but still a roguelike, nonetheless.

As for POWDER, I've never tried it, but it looks nice, and definitely accomplishes much for being on a constrained platform.  Four way movement doesn't seem necessary, since a touchscreen or trackball will be present, allowing for diagonal movement.  And since it's in realtime, diagonal movement is made much easier.

The dance magic idea is rather intriguing.  Probably hard to implement in realtime, but not impossible.  I especially like the idea of doing special combat moves that way.

The special terrain idea is also appealing, and could add some depth to the game.  Like using terrain to determine whether or not a spell can be cast, or what type can be cast, like null mana zones, or fire zones, etc.

Excellent ideas, thank you.

[Z]

As for POWDER, I've never tried it, but it looks nice, and definitely accomplishes much for being on a constrained platform.  Four way movement doesn't seem necessary, since a touchscreen or trackball will be present, allowing for diagonal movement.  And since it's in realtime, diagonal movement is made much easier.

You are right, four way movement is not necessary. I still see some advantages of four way movement (in a turn based game at least) - i.e., I would prefer to walk by clicking direction buttons than by constantly tapping the touchscreen, and I treat this as a different design which leads to new and interesting tactics rather than a restriction - but you can do as you wish.

[guest509]

"not all Androids have touchscreens, not all have trackballs, and not all have keyboards"

  I have given some thought to this. What I think might work would be a one button and 4 directions scheme. 4 direction arrows to move. Press the button to activate the menu. In the menu screen the up down buttons cycle through the items and the one button selects them for use. The left/right buttons could also select them for use/not use(take off).
  For example select the bow and it takes you back to the map screen. Then the next direction you press would shoot an arrow in that direction (if you have one to shoot).

Edit: Hey are those Reiner Tile Sets animated? Didn't think they were. Could be wrong. I would LOVE to be wrong.

[linux_junkie]

"not all Androids have touchscreens, not all have trackballs, and not all have keyboards"

  I have given some thought to this. What I think might work would be a one button and 4 directions scheme. 4 direction arrows to move. Press the button to activate the menu. In the menu screen the up down buttons cycle through the items and the one button selects them for use. The left/right buttons could also select them for use/not use(take off).
  For example select the bow and it takes you back to the map screen. Then the next direction you press would shoot an arrow in that direction (if you have one to shoot).

Edit: Hey are those Reiner Tile Sets animated? Didn't think they were. Could be wrong. I would LOVE to be wrong.

Yes, the Reiner Tilesets are animated.  They look pretty damn good, too.  Most sprites feature attack, walking, dying, and getting hit animations, and many feature talking, running, standing still, etc.

As for the controls, you and Z both have some valid points, and good suggestions.  It'll definitely take some tweaking to get the controls solid and smooth, but it's worth the effort.

[Z]

 I have given some thought to this. What I think might work would be a one button and 4 directions scheme. 4 direction arrows to move. Press the button to activate the menu. In the menu screen the up down buttons cycle through the items and the one button selects them for use. The left/right buttons could also select them for use/not use(take off).

That's similar to POWDER system, except that POWDER has a two-dimensional inventory (that is, you use all 4 directions to select items from your inventory), I think that searching for item to use is more convenient this way.

 For example select the bow and it takes you back to the map screen. Then the next direction you press would shoot an arrow in that direction (if you have one to shoot).

There could be some problems with convenience this way, as I would not want to search my inventory for the bow for every arrow I want to shoot.

[linux_junkie]

 I have given some thought to this. What I think might work would be a one button and 4 directions scheme. 4 direction arrows to move. Press the button to activate the menu. In the menu screen the up down buttons cycle through the items and the one button selects them for use. The left/right buttons could also select them for use/not use(take off).

That's similar to POWDER system, except that POWDER has a two-dimensional inventory (that is, you use all 4 directions to select items from your inventory), I think that searching for item to use is more convenient this way.

 For example select the bow and it takes you back to the map screen. Then the next direction you press would shoot an arrow in that direction (if you have one to shoot).

There could be some problems with convenience this way, as I would not want to search my inventory for the bow for every arrow I want to shoot.

Diablo handles this well, I think.  Clicking on the enemy, when the bow is equipped, autofires the arrow.  I'll probably take a similar approach, with point and click attacking.