Author Topic: Hydra Slayer (now at 16.1), NotEye (now at 8.1)  (Read 103020 times)

Ari Rahikkala

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 3.0
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2010, 10:53:24 PM »
curses hint of the day: You'll want to use erase() rather than clear() to clear the screen without repainting. Everything seemed to work fine for me when I just string-replaced clear() with erase() in hydra.cpp. This way there won't be a flickery redraw every time the player presses a key :)

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 3.0
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2010, 09:27:52 AM »
That collapsed hydra makes me a bit curious ... need to find out what is the amount of head the beast needs to accumulate in order to get die instantly.
Also finding a equipment set which allows to obtain this as cheaply as possible is a nice mathematical puzzle, I think. (It took me about 200 HP, could be less by using better shields and more Potions of Extreme Speed)

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Need to quaff life potion now but with ~800 HP I should be all-right for quite a long time. Who knows when this character bites the bullet. Probably I will move hydra.sav somewhere else to run some other slayers in near future. It is tempting to test new way of dispatching ancient beast. For that and another try of creating a really giant zombie eradicator is needed but this character left it at twelfth floor.
There is a command line option to change the savefile name. (Trying to run with a parameter it does not understand should display command line options) My experiments with giant zombies used Decimator, not sure which one is better (Eradicator would be better if the algorithm used by magic on the way had not its limits)

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Vampire hydras are too rare below AH level for my taste. Challenge factor would get a healthy boost by their presence. Right now it is a no-brainer to use stunning + decapitate on them.
I will add a stat calculating the number of uses of decapitation/fungification on vampires, so you could try to keep it at 0 if you want.

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Have a look at my stuff. Obsidian + reduction makes for a cheesy combo. Soon I will have enough big sticks to replace one of the swords by obsidian variant
Thanks for reminding me that it is possible to obtain obsidian divisors :) But are they indeed more helpful than normal ones? They are used to quickly reduce monsters with lots of heads, and that e.g. +6 does not help the hydra that much. (Actually, I think that it might help you. If you cannot use your /5, it is possible that using your /3 or /2 and growing that 6 heads could make you able to use /5 in the next turn.)

Quote from: logfile
I would add most hydra heads cut with a single ambidexterous attack. 360 was my high score. 360 /5 /3 /2 -12 = dead hydra. As you see no vampire head growth is listed. This is because I have exterminated them with extreme prejudice but encountered only a few. If memory does not fool me I could count them all on a single hand. MaxHP would also be useful additions if 4.0 does not provide it already.
Good ideas! (I think you mean max hydra killed by a single attack, otherwise you could easily get more) Currently there is a 3/20 chance of a vampire hydra per level... yeah, that's too low. I will raise to 5/20.

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Single ambidextrous hits seems to count attacks against hydras unaffected by the potion. It would explain why with only nine potions whole game I managed to accumulate 52 single attacks. IMO when you stun a hydra using ambidexterity and fight another hydra meanwhile it should not count.
That's strange, I will check that.

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Ettins deep down carried some really neat tools. Among them was a five-handed sword and a six-handed sword. Oh, now I remembered. Some of new names with longer element types exceed status area space and corrupt the map. Staff of misfortune is among them when combined with sapphire. Same for poisoned three-handed sword. That should be easy for you to fix.
OK

curses hint of the day: You'll want to use erase() rather than clear() to clear the screen without repainting. Everything seemed to work fine for me when I just string-replaced clear() with erase() in hydra.cpp. This way there won't be a flickery redraw every time the player presses a key :)

Thanks! I was wondering why it was flickering...

I have found a weird bug in 4.0 (you lose 16 max HP when using Necromancy), so I will release a fix soon.

EDIT: Version 4.1 released. I could not find any bug regarding counting ambidextrous single hits, maybe you misunderstood what it means? (It means that 17 of your attacks used multiple weapons, and they were composed of 52 single weapon attacks)

Ancient

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 4.0
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2010, 03:02:24 PM »
EDIT: Version 4.1 released. I could not find any bug regarding counting ambidextrous single hits, maybe you misunderstood what it means? (It means that 17 of your attacks used multiple weapons, and they were composed of 52 single weapon attacks)
You are right. I should read more code before posting. I thought it counted attacks with only a single weapon.

Obsidian divisor has another virtue. There is no hydra type it will grow instead of reducing. 100-headed swamp hydra approaches but you have a poisoned bisector and a trisector? You need to use one transmutation scroll if you wish to greet the monster with halving attack. With obsidian stuff you save scrolls for another day.

Yes, agreed about biggest hydra killed with ambidexterity.
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 4.0
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2010, 01:39:48 PM »
A small update in version 4.2 - each hydra color (except the ancient one) is now susceptible (that is, +0) to one normal weapon color. To make this balanced and interesting and make sense, one color has been renamed (imagine the were-hydra yourself) and the whole cycle has been cunningly rearranged. This should make it a bit more interesting, although easier, because no counterfeature which makes the game harder has been added.

JLC

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 4.0
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 01:32:51 PM »
Hi there. Congratulations for your game, even though I'm no rl expert I've enjoying this game.


I'm posting to report a seg fault that I got (I don't have the time to reproduce it atm, but I'll try to do it asap).
Against a single hydra (21 golden) I attacked first with a S11 ruby great flail, used a potion of power swipe and attacked again with the flail.

JLC

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 4.0
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2010, 02:50:00 PM »
Meanwhile I just won it for the first time (but I had to use one potion of life).

This was the first time I managed to successfully use conflict as well. Pretty cool :)

Char dump:
http://pastebin.com/5QFFwMDA

That eradicator replaced a trisector after I killed the ancient hydra.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 02:52:01 PM by JLC »

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 4.0
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2010, 05:56:30 PM »
Thanks for a bug report, and congratulations! Now try winning with less items used up... :)

If you can reproduce the bug, please do it, I have no idea currently what could cause it (although maybe I will find something after looking at source). (Also the real time looks weird, do you have any ideas what could cause that?)

I plan to release version 5.0 soon (not much changes, just make the Potion of Ambidexterity more interesting; not many ideas about a feature which makes the game a bit harder as a counterbalance, although stunning times will be reduced for some items).

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 4.0
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2010, 01:33:09 PM »
Version 5.0 is ready! Maybe there are no big modifications, but here is what is changed since 4.2:

  • New names for oversized weapons and shields (in 4.3)
  • Decapitation works on mushrooms now (in 4.4)
  • A picture on the website
  • Ambidexterity is now more interesting - it works until moved, not against a single hydra. Also it now works with the Eradicator, with scrolls, and against mushrooms.
  • As a counterbalance, stuntime is reduced for shields and weaker materials, hydras very deep in the dungeon have
    better regeneration, and the official part has 1 potion of ambidexterity less on average
  • Reduction renamed to reforging
  • An additional potion of power juice appears very deep in the dungeon, for those who can reach it (in 4.2 I have got there before having to use the last Potion of Life, not sure whether the balance is the same in 5.0)
  • Some new stats (wounds from the Ancient Hydra and Ettins, quantity of potions of power juice never used)
  • Ettins now have a special picture in the tile version
  • Some bugfixes (4.3: wrong results of Potion of Knowledge, hydras losing turns while recovering from a partial stun, asking for saving after help; 5.0: bug with stunning and PowerSwipe found by JLC above, real time recorded incorrectly for emergency saves)

I wonder what are your feelings about the hardness of the official part (before winning)? From what I have read, it seems to be difficult for some players, and easy for others... probably that's how it should be...

JLC

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 5.0
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2010, 01:01:07 PM »
Returning to game from the inventory was a bit slow for me with 4.4 and it seems fine now :)

About further changes (I'm not that experienced with roguelikes, but I played some - mostly dungeon crawl - and since I really like this one I figured I could come up with some ideas. Feel free to bash me if they're stupid):

- (Random thought) Would checking if a player has a -1 weapon when going into the next level be a good or bad feature? I felt the need to drop mine - mostly in the first levels - to allow me to use a best combination of weapons several times already.
- I always liked to have a ranking in roguelikes. Something like a top10 of all the scores would be nice and I really miss it.
- Have you considered implementing different difficulty modes? I found out this game to be an excellent rl game not only for players without many time to finish a game but also for people getting into the roguelike world. And so I figure it would be cool to keep this difficulty for new players and then have an harder one for more experienced ones (I know it is possible to dig deeper than 12th level). Nothing fancy, but restricting potion use (life, power juice and knowledge for example), diminishing the starting HP and maybe increase hydra heads would  make it more changeling.
- I think you should probably write hydraslayer.txt somewhere in /home/user/.hydraslayer/ or something. I found myself leaving these files in work directories a few times :P


PS: I submitted a package to the arch linux aur repository so that it is easier for arch users to install/update the game. Hope you don't mind.
http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=41803

Thank you again.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 01:03:38 PM by JLC »

Ancient

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 5.0
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2010, 01:43:44 PM »
Whew. I barely managed to download ver 4.4 but not to extract and now there is 5.0. You are developing this too fast. :-P

Thank you JLC. I happen to have Arch Linux as my OS. :-D

Pre-AH levels are moderately difficult but on 11th level heal factor is too high on my opinion. I die only by being careless (not watching HP) or greedy (conserving too much stuff). Post-AH it is a slow war of attrition.
Michał Bieliński, reviewer for Temple of the Roguelike

Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 5.0
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2010, 04:30:49 PM »
Returning to game from the inventory was a bit slow for me with 4.4 and it seems fine now :)
I don't know, I think I have not changed anything here...

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- (Random thought) Would checking if a player has a -1 weapon when going into the next level be a good or bad feature? I felt the need to drop mine - mostly in the first levels - to allow me to use a best combination of weapons several times already.
So you want to always have a -1 weapon when entering a new level, but temporarily switch it to another one, and you want the game to warn you if you have forgotten your dagger? I think keeping the dagger is a part of strategy, and the game should not suggest what the strategy should be (and it is not the only reasonable strategy - I also prefer to keep the dagger myself, but there are other ways to deal with mushrooms and small hydras).

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- I always liked to have a ranking in roguelikes. Something like a top10 of all the scores would be nice and I really miss it.

- Have you considered implementing different difficulty modes? I found out this game to be an excellent rl game not only for players without many time to finish a game but also for people getting into the roguelike world. And so I figure it would be cool to keep this difficulty for new players and then have an harder one for more experienced ones (I know it is possible to dig deeper than 12th level). Nothing fancy, but restricting potion use (life, power juice and knowledge for example), diminishing the starting HP and maybe increase hydra heads would  make it more changeling.

Roguelikes usually have top 100, not top 10. :) I could think about it. This would require some scoring system. What would be the best way to score your games? Maybe one scoreboard which lists max number of enemies defeated (for beginners, this tracks your progress on your way to winning, and for experts, this essentially tracks your best depth) and another one which rewards those who have won the official part most cheaply? Another thing I think would be useful is some global achievement table, which acknowledge if the player has ever e.g. won, won without using Life, defeated AH without using runes/scrolls/potions, slain 11 hydras with a single missile throw, etc.

Currently, the player is invited to invent his own challenges. I think the achievement table idea mentioned in the previous answer would help those who prefer the challenges to be given and rewarded by the game itself.

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- I think you should probably write hydraslayer.txt somewhere in /home/user/.hydraslayer/ or something. I found myself leaving these files in work directories a few times :P

I think you mean hydra.sav and hydralog.txt files. OK, I think the best way would be to add a compiler option for this.

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PS: I submitted a package to the arch linux aur repository so that it is easier for arch users to install/update the game. Hope you don't mind.
Sure, thanks!

Whew. I barely managed to download ver 4.4 but not to extract and now there is 5.0. You are developing this too fast. :-P

:) I think I will need to think a bit to design a good score/achievement system before releasing the next version. :)

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Pre-AH levels are moderately difficult but on 11th level heal factor is too high on my opinion. I die only by being careless (not watching HP) or greedy (conserving too much stuff). Post-AH it is a slow war of attrition.

The intention of level 11 (which was introduced before post-AH levels) was to let the player have some fun that levels 1-10 and 12 do not provide (multiple 3-digit hydras so you need to use divisors heavily), and to make sure that he enters the boss level with full health. But agreed, I think it is possible to reduce the heal factor while still satisfying the second goal (for sufficiently good players). I will try to do that :) Thanks.

JLC

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 5.0
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2010, 05:54:03 PM »
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I think keeping the dagger is a part of strategy, and the game should not suggest what the strategy should be (and it is not the only reasonable strategy - I also prefer to keep the dagger myself, but there are other ways to deal with mushrooms and small hydras).

You're right. Should have given that idea a second thought  :-[

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What would be the best way to score your games? Maybe one scoreboard which lists max number of enemies defeated (for beginners, this tracks your progress on your way to winning, and for experts, this essentially tracks your best depth) and another one which rewards those who have won the official part most cheaply?

I like the idea but I'm not the right person to give input here. Never really dug into score calcs. Damage taken would probably be a good stat as well though. You'll have to ask for user names when starting a game. Otherwise the ranking will be almost useless in computers with multiple users.

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Another thing I think would be useful is some global achievement table, which acknowledge if the player has ever e.g. won, won without using Life, defeated AH without using runes/scrolls/potions, slain 11 hydras with a single missile throw, etc.

Like it.

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I think you mean hydra.sav and hydralog.txt files. OK, I think the best way would be to add a compiler option for this.

I did.

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Pre-AH levels are moderately difficult but on 11th level heal factor is too high on my opinion. I die only by being careless (not watching HP) or greedy (conserving too much stuff). Post-AH it is a slow war of attrition.

+1. It's too easy to heal on level 11. One of the hydras was all I needed. But I still think this level should be enough to completely heal.


Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 5.0
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2010, 02:46:52 PM »
OK, new version is out! It includes the Hall of Fame and a (short) achievement list, reduces the healing for Level 11 (and 13+), and fixes a minor bug with stunning mushrooms.

JLC, I have not changed the location of the files used in the game itself, but I have added some parameters - so I think this could be done by making /usr/bin/hydraslayer run some script similar to the following instead of the executable itself:

Code: [Select]
mkdir -p ~/.hydraslayer
/usr/lib/hydraslayer/hydraslayer -f ~/.hydraslayer/hydra.sav -t ~/.hydraslayer/hydralog.txt -g /usr/lib/hydraslayer/hydrascore.sav $*

(I also think the package info should rather say that Hydra Slayer is influenced by mathematical puzzles, not by MathRL - I suppose MathRL is not so well known)

JLC

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 6.0
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2010, 01:11:52 AM »
Ty for the new version :)

I changed the description of the package as you asked.


Z

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Re: Hydra Slayer version 6.0
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2010, 02:27:02 PM »
Since I have seen some comments that the post-AH part of game was quite boring, I have created a new version (7.0), which should solve this problem. There are now two victory conditions, so you get a chance to win the "complete" game after winning the original one. The complete game is now more varied than in the previous versions - you get hydras of varying sizes, some special equipment, and new shapes of dungeon levels - to be consistent with the theme, some of them are based on mathematics, and some even change the topology of the dungeon in weird ways. The balance of the complete game is based on my playtesting, so you should win (without using the second Potion of Life) if you are better than me (hopefully, as some rebalancing has took place while playtesting), and lose if you are not good enough.

Additionally, the stats have been redesigned (includes stats for individual weapons; also logs now include the character name), and there are some minor changes and bugfixes. (Unfortunately the file format used for saved games and scoreboards is incompatible with the previous versions.)

JLC: I suggest using another file name (hydrascores.sav) for the global installation, since the format has been changed (also the script I suggested used a global scoreboard)