Felicia Day endorses Tome 4

[chooseusername]

I don't think anyone plays any of those games, so I don't find this line of questioning very meaningful. I think a nontrivial number of people play DCSS and in other instances in which I've played roguelikes online, I've encountered nonzero numbers of female players, so I stand by my previous statements re: 8%.

It could be that people systematically lie or answer randomly in the poll in question, but it strikes me as unlikely. I agree that the poll isn't conducted according to the most rigorous standards of social science, but the results aren't meaningless as you suggest.

It doesn't matter what roguelikes I name - I even went so far as to phrase the question a general way.  You're avoiding the point, that the results are meaningless when it comes to the assertion, made by yourself and AgingMinotaur, is that the DCSS results can be taken and extrapolated to represent the whole community.

Thanks for relaying your anecdotal experience, and saying the results "aren't meaningless", whatever that means.  What I take from your reply is that your new assertion is that you personally choose to believe that female player levels are 8%.  Fine.  What I am against, is using it as a fact to dismiss other posters as clearly being wrong about their beliefs.  As AgingMinotaur did for Krice.  I do not accept the 8% and object to people suggesting it should be considered a fact.

[chooseusername]

I love how all these people who I've never heard of before come out of the woodwork and go "This thread has convinced me this board has nothing more worth hearing.". Have the decency to leave quietly, or the courage to stay and voice your disagreement.
Please don't engage in this kind of attention-seeking behavior, it's not going to help any party.
People are going to say things that you disagree with or find hurtful. Deal with it or get off the internet. God help you when you take that milquetoast attitude into real life, though.

If only you had written this post without the attitude.

[mushroom patch]

I don't think anyone plays any of those games, so I don't find this line of questioning very meaningful. I think a nontrivial number of people play DCSS and in other instances in which I've played roguelikes online, I've encountered nonzero numbers of female players, so I stand by my previous statements re: 8%.

It could be that people systematically lie or answer randomly in the poll in question, but it strikes me as unlikely. I agree that the poll isn't conducted according to the most rigorous standards of social science, but the results aren't meaningless as you suggest.

It doesn't matter what roguelikes I name - I even went so far as to phrase the question a general way.  You're avoiding the point, that the results are meaningless when it comes to the assertion, made by yourself and AgingMinotaur, is that the DCSS results can be taken and extrapolated to represent the whole community.

Thanks for relaying your anecdotal experience, and saying the results "aren't meaningless", whatever that means.  What I take from your reply is that your new assertion is that you personally choose to believe that female player levels are 8%.  Fine.  What I am against, is using it as a fact to dismiss other posters as clearly being wrong about their beliefs.  As AgingMinotaur did for Krice.  I do not accept the 8% and object to people suggesting it should be considered a fact.

Well, Krice is clearly wrong in his beliefs on a number of levels, but whether you accept the 8% or not, his < 1% figure ought to be viewed with at least as much contempt as, say, the result of a good faith effort to arrive at a figure through an online straw poll.

If you're playing the role of the angry statistician here, refusing to be convinced by something as haphazard as an online poll, okay, whatever -- this is a line of argument used every time an online poll comes up with a result someone doesn't like. It's a bit tedious, but even if it weren't, the claim that something isn't scientifically rigorous or whatever else does not vacate its meaning as, say, a guide to the demographics of crawl or roguelike players.

If this is some kind of sympathy for the underdog where you say Krice is getting tag teamed/ganged up on, I think it's nice there are people of that disposition on the internet, even if their sympathy is so often misplaced.

[Paul Jeffries]

Here's Wil Wheaton recommending Dreadmor: https://twitter.com/wilw/status/409767483084525568

I trust you guys will shower him with an equal level of disapproval?

I will? Because Dredmor is boring and has bad mechanics and horrible flow. Its graphics and flavor are wasted on the incredibly tripe gameplay.
Papers please is excellent for a free flash game. It's not worth paying for though. It's only claim to fame is that it's now "deep" or "cool" to talk about/realize what kind of shit went on in Germany after the war. So story, much deep, wow.
Dear Esther is not a game.

I died several times to randomly generated bullshit minibosses with powers that pull you next to them and then put all your skills in cooldown in ToME4... If that's 'okay" because you're "supposed to play the game with permadeath off" then it's a bad roguelike.
Could just be my bad luck or lack of skill though.

I like both Will and Felicia (especially their Tabletop channel on youtube), but it's a bit sad that they're using their fame to advertise mediocre games. Felicia can lay the geek-vibes on a bit THICK, though, so I can understand people not liking her or thinking she's a fake geek GAMER GRRL.

Why would I have to shower him with an equal level of dissaproval though? Why equal? If I hate his games more than ToME4 I should shower him with MORE disapproval than Felicia. If I really hate ToME4 then Felicia deserves more disapproval. Oh wait, is it because Felicia is a girl and you feel the need to defend her honor on her behalf on a forum where she's unlikely to frequent, against people whose opinions she might not give a fuck about?
Welcome to modern american feminism where women have to be treated equally to men, but only if it's in the woman's advantage.
Cool story. So approval/disapproval is now tied to gender rather than the subject matter presented. I'll keep that in mind

I enjoy all the kneejerk reactions in this thread. Awww yeah.

For a guy 'advising' DarkGod not to get offended on other people's behalf you seem awfully bent out of shape about a comment not directed at you made in this thread well before you joined it on a topic you had nothing to do with.

If you want to bash on people for recommending games you don't personally like then that's one thing (I mean, I still don't really give a shit for your opinion, if 'it's not a game' is the level of your insight) - but nobody was talking about the quality of TOME at all, they were criticising on the basis of who Felicia Day is (or isn't).  My point was that if the thread had been about Wil Wheaton recommending something, we still might have got some 'who cares?' comments (possibly even from me) but we probably wouldn't be getting the same level of vitriol and 'I think women try to ruin even games from us' comments.

Which I guess deep down, you know, or you wouldn't have come out on the defensive and wouldn't have brought out some weird axe to grind against 'american feminism'.  I'm not sure what it is exactly that you find so threatening, but if it makes you feel any better I'm not actually even American.  Some people aren't.

[AgingMinotaur]

Wow, that flame war was totally revived. Hooray!

As always,
Minotauros

[Krice]

Well, Krice is clearly wrong in his beliefs on a number of levels, but whether you accept the 8%

That was from DCSS only, right? I guess hard core (=ascii) roguelikes will reduce that close to 1%... I think the main reason women play DCSS is that looking at tile version screenshots they thought it was Minecraft-like.

[Krice]

I, too, could do without some of the sexist and generally bigoted remarks

Since I'm not american I have a different view on that alleged sexism. Americans seem to handle difficult issues by banning them. They even ban boobs which are worst creations of satan than the fact that USA is one of the very few contemporary countries to perform military actions on foreign countries and in that process killing innocent people.

[AgingMinotaur]

lol. For the record, I was born in Norway and lived there until I was 20, so I "represent" the same region as you, Krice. Also, thanks for clearing up the correlation between drone bombings and sexism. In the context of neoimperialism, it makes complete sense to claim that girls are silly and play with dolls.

As always,
Minotauros

[Vanguard]

I think the main reason women play DCSS is that looking at tile version screenshots they thought it was Minecraft-like.

Come on, man, this is completely baseless.

[Rickton]

Yeah, obviously the real reason is that when you equip different things, your character's image changes, so it's kind of like playing with dolls.

[reaver]

Hey, swords are cooler/better than shopping bags! Because I say so, of course.
So, being bored at work, I give you for free my idea:

MallRL!

"Deep inside the mall is the legendary Trousers of Bling, an item that can be sold for more than its buying price. The ultimate bargain!"

You start outside of the mall, an endless maze of corridors and shops.
You obtain food by corner shops scattered in the compound. Avoid starvation caused by spending too much time looking at items!
You avoid getting hit by salespeople, as they can stun you and starve, die of old age or get permanently feebleminded!
Treasures are bargains, hidden within the shops deep in the complex
Stats:
- Str : how much you can carry
- Dex: how easily you can avoid shopkeepers and stumbling to other shoppers
- Con: how long can you go without snacks
- Int: how to spot the good offers
- Wis: how to quickly shrug off salesmen
- Cha: how to charm salesmen to minions who can locate, grab, and carry the offers back to you.

Bonus points for anybody who demonstrates how that's a worse concept than slaying something every 2-3 keypresses.

[mushroom patch]

I think people play webtiles because it is easy to connect from any consumer computing device and one can switch devices easily and seamlessly. Also, the minimap -- which could be done without much trouble in the console version too, but just isn't implemented at present. The appeal of webtiles clearly has nothing to do with gender, lazy stereotypes aside.

I have to agree with the concerns raised by other posters about the quality of thought on display from the anti-women and/or Felicia Day contingent here.

[Slash]

It's about time for this flamewar to finish.

[Rickton]

Hey, swords are cooler/better than shopping bags! Because I say so, of course.
So, being bored at work, I give you for free my idea:

MallRL!

"Deep inside the mall is the legendary Trousers of Bling, an item that can be sold for more than its buying price. The ultimate bargain!"

You start outside of the mall, an endless maze of corridors and shops.
You obtain food by corner shops scattered in the compound. Avoid starvation caused by spending too much time looking at items!
You avoid getting hit by salespeople, as they can stun you and starve, die of old age or get permanently feebleminded!
Treasures are bargains, hidden within the shops deep in the complex
Stats:
- Str : how much you can carry
- Dex: how easily you can avoid shopkeepers and stumbling to other shoppers
- Con: how long can you go without snacks
- Int: how to spot the good offers
- Wis: how to quickly shrug off salesmen
- Cha: how to charm salesmen to minions who can locate, grab, and carry the offers back to you.

Bonus points for anybody who demonstrates how that's a worse concept than slaying something every 2-3 keypresses.

I'd play it.

[AgingMinotaur]

I once had an idea for a "Motherhood RL". Unlike Jeff Lait's famous Fatherhood RL, you wouldn't score points for berating your kids and such. Instead, it would play as a randomly generated platformer where you have to make sure your children aren't killed in gory accidents, keep your screaming babies fed and rested, bring older kids to school and extracurricular activities, as well as avoiding insanity through substance abuse You'd probably start off with just one infant, who turns into a toddler in level 2, just as you get another baby. Each time you clear a level, all surviving kids grow to the next age level and a new infant (or, god forbid, a pair of twins) comes into play.

As always,
Minotauros