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Early Dev / Re: Zombie Madness v0.6 Final
« on: September 18, 2010, 02:01:17 AM »
Wouldn't the final version be 1.0 and not 0.6?
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Other Announcements / Re: Project: Roguelike Renaissance
« on: September 01, 2010, 11:32:00 PM »
Man. I can't believe how dedicated you are. I wish I was able to apply myself to everyday work as seriously as you have to roguelikes.
This is a great idea. Don't make your own roguelike - help the myriad of other ones out there with various ancillary tasks to keep the developer able to focus on the important stuff.
This is a great idea. Don't make your own roguelike - help the myriad of other ones out there with various ancillary tasks to keep the developer able to focus on the important stuff.
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Other Announcements / Re: Acquiring feedback for your roguelike project
« on: September 01, 2010, 08:51:11 PM »
Apologies, I have a tendency to ramble, and may have failed to get the marketing link across. My point is, no, you're not marketing a commercial product, but many of the skills involved in marketing a commercial product are the same skills that are of great use to generate interest in your roguelike. Marketing has the same end goal: Get people talking about what you're providing.
I'd suggest this:
http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Small-Business-Marketing-For-Dummies-2nd-Edition.productCd-0764578391.html
Yes, it's entirely possible for a game to take off and succeed based purely on it's own merits. DF did that. Eventually, if you put out a good product, people will start talking, and it will snowball. However, this topic isn't about how to make a good game, it's about how to get people talking and feedbacking about your game. It takes time for games to be devved and get off the ground, and a single creator can be swamped with all the work. It's disheartening to think that your labor might go to waste - a community keeps you going. On top of that, the level of feedback, support and help a community can provide an indev game with is ridicoulously helpful.
What said "Marketing bullshit" is for is to accelerate this process and get you fans during early dev, when your game is still new, flawed, young and vulnerable. A strong community will help to build a strong game.
There is an art to getting interest in a product or service up, one that's been refined very much so over the past few centuries. It'd be foolish not to take advantage of it. You could stop and let things handle themselves, but that might mean your game will languish on the sidelines without any attention on it whatsoever, nobody to help hunt down bugs...
I'd suggest this:
http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Small-Business-Marketing-For-Dummies-2nd-Edition.productCd-0764578391.html
Yes, it's entirely possible for a game to take off and succeed based purely on it's own merits. DF did that. Eventually, if you put out a good product, people will start talking, and it will snowball. However, this topic isn't about how to make a good game, it's about how to get people talking and feedbacking about your game. It takes time for games to be devved and get off the ground, and a single creator can be swamped with all the work. It's disheartening to think that your labor might go to waste - a community keeps you going. On top of that, the level of feedback, support and help a community can provide an indev game with is ridicoulously helpful.
What said "Marketing bullshit" is for is to accelerate this process and get you fans during early dev, when your game is still new, flawed, young and vulnerable. A strong community will help to build a strong game.
There is an art to getting interest in a product or service up, one that's been refined very much so over the past few centuries. It'd be foolish not to take advantage of it. You could stop and let things handle themselves, but that might mean your game will languish on the sidelines without any attention on it whatsoever, nobody to help hunt down bugs...
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Early Dev / Re: Adventurer - A Roguelike
« on: September 01, 2010, 12:52:02 PM »Quote
Adventurer is inspired by the complexity of Dwarf Fortress. I want to bring that level of detail, and make use of it in a Roguelike more like Nethack. I've already made some pretty big
You had me hopelessly ensnared at this point or so.
Downloading now.EDIT: Aw blast. I'm on Vista, and it keeps not responding as soon as it opens. D:
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Early Dev / Re: Rogue Survivor Alpha 4.11
« on: September 01, 2010, 12:50:18 PM »
I love this game, even in it's incomplete state. It's very fun, even though from a strict standpoint there's not a huge amount to do yet.
Keep developing! We're hungry for MORE!
Keep developing! We're hungry for MORE!
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Other Announcements / Re: Acquiring feedback for your roguelike project
« on: September 01, 2010, 12:37:11 PM »
Really, the entire thing boils down to one thing:
(Please excuse the large amount of emphasis, it's kinda neccessary)
MARKETING
It doesn't matter how much you have done, or whether you have a Youtube video, or whether the concept is new and interesting. These things aid in making buzz for your project, but in the end are merely boosters for it.
If you want your project to survive, you need to know how to generate interest and buzz. Your main goal should be getting people to talk about it. With their friends, with others on the forums you post in.
Take what you have and work with it. Post on various forums - bay 12, roguetemple, other roguelike sites. Talk with friends and plug your game. Urge them if they think it's good to throw a link to some friends, and explain how that'd be _really_ helpful to you as you badly need interest and help.
Most importantly, _don't skimp out on demoes or what your project can do_. List off every interesting feature and explain them clearly and concisely. Make large feature lists of what you expect to be able to do. (Take a look at bay12's goals page - it's been trimmed down severely, but it's still very, very impressive to look at) Keep people updated with a coherent blog on your devschedule.
Pick up a book on advertising or marketing. The skills contained in the economic sector for that purpose are very similar to the ones you need to get people talking about your roguelike.
Serial Killer had a lot going for it. It had a very, very convicning demo (Although it was possibly done in Flash) that showed off the "features" of the "game" very well. Here's what it did right:
Lesson #1: Get a video demonstration of what the game is capable of. Get multiple ones, in fact, at different stages of the devcycle. (Every month or two, perhaps) This really gives people hope that they'll actually see a release - being able to see a physical game physically playing tends to get people talking, and shows off the game better than your words ever could.
Serial killer did this. It's videoes were very impressive and got people talking, and at two minutes each (if I remember correctly) anybody who wanted to know what the project was about could watch it and be informed. The video is your hook for new players.
Lesson #2: Don't skimp out on feature posts. Richly detail about what the game is capable of right now, and even more richly detail what you plan to do with it in the future.
Serial Killer did this too, obviously. Did you see that wall of features, almost all of which were interesting?
Lesson #3: Contribute to discussion you buzz up. Talk with people that ask you questions. If you seem a member of the community instead of a distant, unapproachable figure, you can stoke the community's interest even more.
Again, Serial Killer did this. The "author" constantly talked with people that raised questions and held discussions with them.
Lesson #4: Above all, advertise. Get multiple posts up in multiple places discussing the game. If possible, link them to a central forum or website you've set up, which contains your devlog (with the videoes mentioned in #1), your forum, possibly a shoutbox, a detailed feature list...
Serial killer didn't have a dedicated website, but it did end up getting multiple posts about it in multiple places, and even indie news coverage. This was primarily because of #1, as well as the theme of the subject helping catch reporter interest, although neither of those are strictly required. You don't neccessarily need a shocking or interesting theme to succeed, it just gives you a stepladder. One mistake SK made on the other hand was not posting itself - the Bay 12 topic was started by an interested fan. No need to rely on the community here: Do it yourself!
Lesson #5: Finally, effort. People like effort. People like knowing you have put effort into your project. Appear professional, even if you aren't. Show your work. Do research on the subject matter. USE PROPER ENGLISH, even if it takes you longer to type out than it would normally. I guarantee you a page full of instances where the author can't find the time to type out "y-o-u" doesn't inspire confidence, mainly because using "u" tells people "I don't care about what I'm writing, this is nothing more than a text message to me!" If English isn't your first language, post up a disclaimer saying so. Devote time, care and love into your project. The bottom line: Let people know you have your shit together.
Serial Killer, again. The interface was simplistic but extremely well done and looked like it was just dripping with information and ease of use. The author's posts were all intelligent and well written and considered. Even if the game itself was nonexistant, those two gameplay videoes were clearly a labor of love, and everyone who watched them could see that and realized it on some level. When they see a product like that, they think "Wow, someone put effort into this."
Hopefully that helps, all. Wow, this turned out to be a monster of a first post, didn't it?
(Please excuse the large amount of emphasis, it's kinda neccessary)
MARKETING
It doesn't matter how much you have done, or whether you have a Youtube video, or whether the concept is new and interesting. These things aid in making buzz for your project, but in the end are merely boosters for it.
If you want your project to survive, you need to know how to generate interest and buzz. Your main goal should be getting people to talk about it. With their friends, with others on the forums you post in.
Take what you have and work with it. Post on various forums - bay 12, roguetemple, other roguelike sites. Talk with friends and plug your game. Urge them if they think it's good to throw a link to some friends, and explain how that'd be _really_ helpful to you as you badly need interest and help.
Most importantly, _don't skimp out on demoes or what your project can do_. List off every interesting feature and explain them clearly and concisely. Make large feature lists of what you expect to be able to do. (Take a look at bay12's goals page - it's been trimmed down severely, but it's still very, very impressive to look at) Keep people updated with a coherent blog on your devschedule.
Pick up a book on advertising or marketing. The skills contained in the economic sector for that purpose are very similar to the ones you need to get people talking about your roguelike.
Serial Killer had a lot going for it. It had a very, very convicning demo (Although it was possibly done in Flash) that showed off the "features" of the "game" very well. Here's what it did right:
Lesson #1: Get a video demonstration of what the game is capable of. Get multiple ones, in fact, at different stages of the devcycle. (Every month or two, perhaps) This really gives people hope that they'll actually see a release - being able to see a physical game physically playing tends to get people talking, and shows off the game better than your words ever could.
Serial killer did this. It's videoes were very impressive and got people talking, and at two minutes each (if I remember correctly) anybody who wanted to know what the project was about could watch it and be informed. The video is your hook for new players.
Lesson #2: Don't skimp out on feature posts. Richly detail about what the game is capable of right now, and even more richly detail what you plan to do with it in the future.
Serial Killer did this too, obviously. Did you see that wall of features, almost all of which were interesting?
Lesson #3: Contribute to discussion you buzz up. Talk with people that ask you questions. If you seem a member of the community instead of a distant, unapproachable figure, you can stoke the community's interest even more.
Again, Serial Killer did this. The "author" constantly talked with people that raised questions and held discussions with them.
Lesson #4: Above all, advertise. Get multiple posts up in multiple places discussing the game. If possible, link them to a central forum or website you've set up, which contains your devlog (with the videoes mentioned in #1), your forum, possibly a shoutbox, a detailed feature list...
Serial killer didn't have a dedicated website, but it did end up getting multiple posts about it in multiple places, and even indie news coverage. This was primarily because of #1, as well as the theme of the subject helping catch reporter interest, although neither of those are strictly required. You don't neccessarily need a shocking or interesting theme to succeed, it just gives you a stepladder. One mistake SK made on the other hand was not posting itself - the Bay 12 topic was started by an interested fan. No need to rely on the community here: Do it yourself!
Lesson #5: Finally, effort. People like effort. People like knowing you have put effort into your project. Appear professional, even if you aren't. Show your work. Do research on the subject matter. USE PROPER ENGLISH, even if it takes you longer to type out than it would normally. I guarantee you a page full of instances where the author can't find the time to type out "y-o-u" doesn't inspire confidence, mainly because using "u" tells people "I don't care about what I'm writing, this is nothing more than a text message to me!" If English isn't your first language, post up a disclaimer saying so. Devote time, care and love into your project. The bottom line: Let people know you have your shit together.
Serial Killer, again. The interface was simplistic but extremely well done and looked like it was just dripping with information and ease of use. The author's posts were all intelligent and well written and considered. Even if the game itself was nonexistant, those two gameplay videoes were clearly a labor of love, and everyone who watched them could see that and realized it on some level. When they see a product like that, they think "Wow, someone put effort into this."
Hopefully that helps, all. Wow, this turned out to be a monster of a first post, didn't it?
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