Messages

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: For those who have played unix Rogue a lot

« on: March 08, 2016, 07:13:08 AM »

Having looked through the source codes (or binary, in the case of MacRogue) I have the following monster lists, though I don't yet know which version I'd like to base the "boardgame" on

The difference between the earlier and later versions is due to the authors replacing D&D-specific monsters, presumably to avoid legal issues.

I'd suggest not basing a board game too closely on the mechanics of Rogue.  All the walking through corridors and resting to heal would get boring if done by a group of players throwing dice instead of being automated by the computer.

I see Rogue as an attempt to mimic the experience of the kind of megadungeon-oriented, disposable character playstyle that's been promoted by the recent OSR movement. In the absence of a human GM, it's surprising that Rogue itself is so fun when it could easily have been tedious. Compare it with Dungeon Robber, a much less fair game that's essentially an automated implementation of the random dungeon generation tables in the back of the DMG (although I find the character retirement aspect of the game intriguing). I think the lesson is, as elwin says, to tailor the gameplay to the medium. Rogue was designed to be played on a computer, while the DMG tables were designed to be incorporated into a game with a human gamemaster interpreting the results. A rules-constrained wargame/boardgame is neither, so it needs its own design.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: March 08, 2016, 06:46:35 AM »

Quaggas coming back!   

http://secondnexus.com/ecology-and-sustainability/extinct-zebra-back-from-dead/?utm_content=inf_10_1164_2&tse_id=INF_c2d9a8d2ec5e479c8e9d2b9b2a1940c0

Wow. That's crazy. Let's hope that they don't bring trolls back next.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: January 20, 2016, 12:10:49 AM »

Well, we've got a killed w/ Amulet on the leaderboard now. 

Awesome job! Congrats! Now we need to get that sucker to the surface.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: December 15, 2015, 10:38:02 PM »

@elwin - site's down

Looks like just the web service, as I'm able to login via ssh without a problem.

Does your hosting service allow you to configure the server so that the web service will start automatically on boot?

If so, here are some starting points for Linux and OS X.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: December 11, 2015, 07:39:13 AM »

What affects your ability to hit your enemy other than your enemy's attributes?  Can you increase your ability to hit your enemy?  Does it occur at level ups or with equipment or what?  What exactly does STR affect?

Your chance to hit is based on your level, the monster's armor class, your strength, the "to hit" bonus on your weapon, any rings of dexterity that you might be wearing, and whether the creature is asleep or held (you get a +20% bonus in this case).

The Rogue's Vade-Mecum (Latin for "walk with me", i.e., a walkthrough) says "When you attack a monster, your chance of hitting it is 5%, plus 5% times your experience level, plus 5% times the monster's armor class." So your two raise level potions ought to have added 10% to your hit chance. According to the vade-mecum, a troll's AC is 4, so, based on what you said (lvl 8 before drinking the potions, lvl 10 afterwards, no weapon enchantments), you should have gone from a 65% chance to hit the troll to a 75% chance after quaffing the potions. However, your hit chance might have been significantly decreased if your strength was low.

After having written the first draft of this post, I wasn't sure about the exact effect that strength had, so I took a look at the 5.4.4 source code and found the following in fight.c:

Code: [Select]

/*
 * adjustments to hit probabilities due to strength
 */
static int str_plus[] = {
    -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1,
    1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3,
};

/*
 * adjustments to damage done due to strength
 */
static int add_dam[] = {
    -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 2, 3,
    3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6
};

If you don't read C, these are arrays of hit and dmg bonuses that are indexed using the character's strength (ranging from 0 to 31). Meaning that the first number in each list corresponds to str 0, the second number to str 1, and so on. As you can see, you take hit and dmg penalties if your str is 6 or below, and you get a hit bonus if it's 17 or higher and a dmg bonus if it's 16 or higher. The slightly good news is that there's code in another file that enforces a lower bound of strength 3, so the worst penalties from those arrays seem not to actually be in play.

Looking at the code that computes hits, it generates a virtual 20-sided die (d20) roll, modifies it based on the various factors that I mentioned above, and then determines if it was a hit. Since 1/20 = 5%, this is where the percentages in the formula in the vade-mecum come from. Each point of weapon and strength bonus/penalty adjusts the d20 roll, which means that it actually corresponds to a 5% increase or decrease in hit chance. So, e.g., the -4 for str 3 is actually -20%, a significant penalty. On the positive side, I think that your earlier post where you said

I am noticing that one common factor in my successful runs is my ability to maintain and increase STR for the damage bonuses or whatever it is STR does.

was right on the money. It also means that weapon enchantments are a pretty big deal.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: December 09, 2015, 07:15:27 AM »

Well, I made it to 24 again

You've had some nice runs recently. Grats on those.

I've been in a bit of a slump. The top two annoying things that I've been experiencing recently are (1) having 20 hp at level 5, and (2) swinging at a level-appropriate monster literally a dozen times and missing every time. Going to keep plugging away at it...

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: December 04, 2015, 05:09:04 AM »

How does that sound?

Sounds good.

Pertinax - how do you stand still and gain HP in giant chunks?  Are you just holding down the rest button?

I'm typing a number prior to hitting period, which causes one to rest for that number of turns, or until something happens. I use a similar command (e.g., 10s) to search a particular number of times rather than having to hit s repeatedly.

When is "/" (identify object) useful?  Can you stand next to a Xeroc and identify it before it attacks you?

It's just a form of help intended to tell you what an ASCII character means in case you don't know or have forgotten.  I think that it will tell you that X is a Xeroc and that % is a staircase, but not that the particular % that you're looking at is really a Xeroc.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: November 27, 2015, 12:38:50 AM »

I guess there's enough interest in a tournament that I should do one.  It will work like the NetHack or DCSS tournaments - all games played in a two-week period are part of it.  Winners will be chosen by highest average score.

Highest average score seems like it might create a disincentive to play: have a great first game on day one, then avoid playing any more games for two weeks so as not to bring down one's average.

Something like "best of n" or "best n of however many" might work better. The latter would create an incentive to play more as there would always be hope that the next game could be The One, but it would favor people who have more free time during the tournament period.

I haven't spent much time looking at the details of the NetHack or DCSS tournaments, but it looks like they both address these issues by rewarding multiple achievements:

NetHack
DCSS

Edited to add:

I hope I'm the only player who's ever had a 86-HP character pecked to death by a chirping Kestrel.

That is brutal (and hilarious).

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: November 22, 2015, 05:05:14 AM »

Is anyone interested in a tournament? I tried to hold one before, but no one came.

Yeah, I'd be interested in a tournament. I'd suggest multiple games per round to offset the rng and to allow for some strategic decisions across games.

Also, does anyone ever watch ttyrec files? Would you if I made it possible to replay them in the Web player?

I installed a ttyrec player a while back and took a look at some of the games (after coming to the horrific realization that all of my game-losing mistakes are immortalized). I'd probably do this more often if there were a web interface.

Speaking of feature requests, it would be cool to be able to filter my past games based on score or max dungeon level reached, rather than just having an arbitrarily long table where a third of the entries are "killed by a hobgoblin on lvl 1." In conjunction with the ttyrec playback, this could make it more convenient to find a user's best games and play them back.

Pertinax - I was hoping you'd show!  I got to watch one of your runs that is in the top 10.

I'd been meaning to register here and join in the conversation for a while. You've had some great runs yourself.

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Classic Roguelikes / Re: Rogue - let's beat it

« on: November 20, 2015, 09:49:09 PM »

Hi elwin,

Thanks for running the rlgallery service. I've been having lots of fun with it.

I used ssh during the web service downtime. A tip for anyone else that's using a mac: I had to change my default "stty erase ^?" to "stty erase ^H" in order to stop my mac terminal from interfering with the in-game ctrl-H cmd to run left until something happens.

Dexterity does not exist in Rogue. Leveling up gives a 5% boost to your chance to hit, every time.

I've seen a ring of +dexterity in the game. Based on my reading (e.g., see https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Rogue_(game)), it affects hit chance.

Another item of interest - I've noticed Centaurs don't appear until Floor 7.  That is, unless you find a treasure room on Floor 6.  Then it is possible for a Centaur to appear a floor early.  Anyone else notice this?  I figured I was wrong until it happened a second time.

More generally, I've noticed that all monsters can appear in a treasure room one level earlier than they otherwise would.