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Other Announcements / Re: What does your dream roguelike have?
« on: May 25, 2007, 08:01:16 PM »
Hi 
, I'm new here, I've been a roguelike fan for about two years.
Now on the topic:
You're describing one of the elements of what I would really like to see in roguelikes: more realism and immersion in the game world. Personally I'm OK with having no overworld and only one quest (getting the Orb, Amulet, etc.), but I'd like the dungeon to be credible, dreadful and mysterious. Some kind of hybridation with Interactive Fiction might do the trick, at least by adding some nice descriptions. Since ASCII characters are only there as a support to your imagination, there's a lot that can be done by describing the general feeling, "weather", rooms, the sounds you hear in the distance, the sweat running down your brow, the way monsters react to your presence and to each other, and so on.
I'm mainly a Dungon Crawl (Stone Stoup) fan, but in most roguelikes that I have tried, the beginning game is mostly the same because the monsters don't change, you meet them in the same sequence. It feels more like a platform game than a dynamic environment: you encounter tougher and tougher baddies, and from time to time a "boss".
It would be nice if there was a (even if it's wacky) reason for having such monster at such depth. I'd like to see (and plunder) their lairs, to observe their behavior to find ways to trick them, and to listen to their conversations. Rememeber those hilarious orcs' conversations in Lord of the Rings? You could also meet monsters far too tough for you, but still be able to avoid them, because everyone on the level would be running for their lives, and because said monster would not necessarily have you as its only target.
Well, melee is the more powerful option in Crawl in my experience, partly because if you exercise melee combat much, you gain a lot of HP overtime. Also, with an enchanted sword, enchanted heavy armor and shield, you can be quite a tank. One of my characters (Hill Dwarf Gladiator) was wiping the floor with ease, and didn't care about being surrounded by 20 orcs. For big fights like that when you just want some quick action, I think the "bump and hit" system is OK. Especially since in Crawl you can gain additional martial arts attacks by practicing hand-to-hand combat as well as weapon skills.
However I agree that sometimes I'm left wishing for fights that have more depths. Maybe the more complex tactics you're describing could be reserved for more "epic" fights, against monsters close to your level or above it? To refer to Lord of the Rings again, in large fights against relatively stupid minions, there are baddies all over the place, and they come quickly - and are dispatched as quickly. You don't care if they were hit on the cheekbone or whatever. But when facing the really bad guys (such as the Uruk-Hai boss with the bow), then the details of the fight become much more important, because the outcome is far from certain.
+1. That is, if it runs properly. I always end up playing Nethack and Crawl on Windows, since the Windows interface to Nethack is so much better, and the keypad movement doesn't work in Linux Crawl because (AFAIK) they use NCurses, which has dodgy keypad support.
, I'm new here, I've been a roguelike fan for about two years.Now on the topic:
* Possibilities to interact with NPCs (of all kinds) other than "hit, hit, miss, cast magic bolt". Incursion is planned to do this...
You're describing one of the elements of what I would really like to see in roguelikes: more realism and immersion in the game world. Personally I'm OK with having no overworld and only one quest (getting the Orb, Amulet, etc.), but I'd like the dungeon to be credible, dreadful and mysterious. Some kind of hybridation with Interactive Fiction might do the trick, at least by adding some nice descriptions. Since ASCII characters are only there as a support to your imagination, there's a lot that can be done by describing the general feeling, "weather", rooms, the sounds you hear in the distance, the sweat running down your brow, the way monsters react to your presence and to each other, and so on.
I'm mainly a Dungon Crawl (Stone Stoup) fan, but in most roguelikes that I have tried, the beginning game is mostly the same because the monsters don't change, you meet them in the same sequence. It feels more like a platform game than a dynamic environment: you encounter tougher and tougher baddies, and from time to time a "boss".
It would be nice if there was a (even if it's wacky) reason for having such monster at such depth. I'd like to see (and plunder) their lairs, to observe their behavior to find ways to trick them, and to listen to their conversations. Rememeber those hilarious orcs' conversations in Lord of the Rings? You could also meet monsters far too tough for you, but still be able to avoid them, because everyone on the level would be running for their lives, and because said monster would not necessarily have you as its only target.
Quote
* Melee not being the worst combat option of all times. There is a trend in roguelikes that in almost all of them, melee is just "bump and hit" and very risky and not very rewarding, while using ranged weapons (of all kinds, including magic) is always a superior option. Well, for what it's worth, I *enjoy* using melee, so I'd like a bit more complex melee system which would let the player choose some kind of option to exploit disadvantages of the monster to still make it worthwile with some tactics (e.g: Hitting a giant's legs so it falls over and you are free to kill him while he is on the floor).
Well, melee is the more powerful option in Crawl in my experience, partly because if you exercise melee combat much, you gain a lot of HP overtime. Also, with an enchanted sword, enchanted heavy armor and shield, you can be quite a tank. One of my characters (Hill Dwarf Gladiator) was wiping the floor with ease, and didn't care about being surrounded by 20 orcs. For big fights like that when you just want some quick action, I think the "bump and hit" system is OK. Especially since in Crawl you can gain additional martial arts attacks by practicing hand-to-hand combat as well as weapon skills.
However I agree that sometimes I'm left wishing for fights that have more depths. Maybe the more complex tactics you're describing could be reserved for more "epic" fights, against monsters close to your level or above it? To refer to Lord of the Rings again, in large fights against relatively stupid minions, there are baddies all over the place, and they come quickly - and are dispatched as quickly. You don't care if they were hit on the cheekbone or whatever. But when facing the really bad guys (such as the Uruk-Hai boss with the bow), then the details of the fight become much more important, because the outcome is far from certain.
Quote
Edit: Obviously, it also needs to run on Linux for me to play it
+1. That is, if it runs properly. I always end up playing Nethack and Crawl on Windows, since the Windows interface to Nethack is so much better, and the keypad movement doesn't work in Linux Crawl because (AFAIK) they use NCurses, which has dodgy keypad support.