Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Game Discussion => Early Dev => Topic started by: orangepascal on July 07, 2015, 11:40:23 AM
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(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_640x400.png)
update: game is now up for pre-order with beta access: http://www.spacegrunts.com (http://www.spacegrunts.com)
Hey guys, I've been working on a rogue-like for a few months now, and now at the point that I feel comfortable sharing with the actual target audience, and I'm nearing the point of a beta pretty soon so might be hunting some people on here for feedback later.
The game is Space Grunts, designed as an action arcade game, but plays like a turn-based roguelike.. which is.. different I guess ;)
Reason for this is that I never really played turn-based games, so this is my first attempt at making one, but in my own style. I got challenged by other developers to try creating one, and so far I'm having a blast with it!
You can watch 10+ minutes of the latest build in action here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRd-Ato7cjE
There is still a lot to add and iron-out, but that's why I'm now on here, in the hopes to pick up some ideas, thoughts, and influences from rogue-likes and the people who play them.
I made some design decisions that might seem odd, but again, I come from action-arcade games, and that's how I approached this one in the hopes of creating a turn-based game that is interesting enough for different types of players.
It will be released on Steam, and also on ChromeOS, Android, iOS, Ouya and a host of other platforms.
Feedback very much appreciated!
http://www.spacegrunts.com (http://www.spacegrunts.com)
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/space_grunts_messy.gif)
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Added a new light-system today for the Steam version:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_light_anim.gif)
Longer view on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmeUh26TALY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmeUh26TALY)
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Looks nice! It's certainly a lot 'juicier' than the average roguelike. From the video, it seems like the main combat mechanic revolves around selecting the right weapon to use in the right circumstances. Is there any more to it than that? If not, I'm worried that may become repetitive - what might be fun in an action game for ages can quickly become tedious in a turn-based game if there are not sufficiently deep consequences to your actions.
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Looks nice! It's certainly a lot 'juicier' than the average roguelike. From the video, it seems like the main combat mechanic revolves around selecting the right weapon to use in the right circumstances. Is there any more to it than that? If not, I'm worried that may become repetitive - what might be fun in an action game for ages can quickly become tedious in a turn-based game if there are not sufficiently deep consequences to your actions.
the first zone (3 levels) is a matter of using your weapons (and sparse ammo) correctly while progressing towards the base and collecting as many items as possible.
The later zones will require you to use your inventory items correctly to survive, and weapons take a little backseat - still the right weapon at the right time, but you'll want to balance your inventory items a lot more to survive.
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Wow, this looks really nice, though I would echo Paul's sentiments--appears a bit on the simple side, but hey there's a market for that, too (a bigger one, even...).
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Wow, this looks really nice, though I would echo Paul's sentiments--appears a bit on the simple side, but hey there's a market for that, too (a bigger one, even...).
I hope to strike a decent balance between being a more open one (easy to get into) and still deep/interesting enough.. We'll see how that turns out ;)
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The game is Space Grunts, designed as an action arcade game, but plays like a turn-based roguelike..
No it does not play like turn-based roguelike. It's just an action shooter.
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The game is Space Grunts, designed as an action arcade game, but plays like a turn-based roguelike..
No it does not play like turn-based roguelike. It's just an action shooter.
it does actually, but okay :)
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The game is Space Grunts, designed as an action arcade game, but plays like a turn-based roguelike..
No it does not play like turn-based roguelike. It's just an action shooter.
Based the videos he linked, it seems pretty clearly turn-based rather than real-time. In the second video (this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmeUh26TALY ) there are two early spots in particular where this is extra noticeable: around 0:27 when the player spends a longer than usual amount of time aiming (and yet, no enemies react to the delay), and then around 0:41 in the flame trap room: the on/off states of the traps is only changing when he moves. It looks possible to take turns very quickly, but they're definitely still turns.
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Based the videos he linked, it seems pretty clearly turn-based rather than real-time. In the second video (this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmeUh26TALY ) there are two early spots in particular where this is extra noticeable: around 0:27 when the player spends a longer than usual amount of time aiming (and yet, no enemies react to the delay), and then around 0:41 in the flame trap room: the on/off states of the traps is only changing when he moves. It looks possible to take turns very quickly, but they're definitely still turns.
yep, trust me it really is turn-based, and it really is roguelike. As I said in the original post, I'm trying to create a hybrid of turn-based and action arcade.
You can play this game quick like a shooter if you want, but you won't get very far, the turns are instant so there is hardly any delay when you run around and just keep pressing the direction keys/buttons (if that's how you wanna play it).
The inventory system is still in development and growing as I add a lot of items, this is where some of the tactics will come from as you have to decide what to use and when to use it, with a limited amount of inventory slots, you'll also have to decide what to grab and what not.
so it might not be the standard turn-based roguelike.. but that's kinda the point of creating something new :)
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yep, trust me it really is turn-based, and it really is roguelike.
Turn-based doesn't mean it's a roguelike. Lot of games are turn-based. Chess is turn-based.
so it might not be the standard turn-based roguelike.. but that's kinda the point of creating something new :)
Games like that were invented in the 80's. It's actually what you see in these mobile games, they are exactly the same as 8-bit games back in stone age. But I guess there are plenty of new players as well who play these kind of games the first time, that's why they sell and I guess it's good for the developers.
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Turn-based doesn't mean it's a roguelike. Lot of games are turn-based. Chess is turn-based.
so it might not be the standard turn-based roguelike.. but that's kinda the point of creating something new :)
Games like that were invented in the 80's. It's actually what you see in these mobile games, they are exactly the same as 8-bit games back in stone age. But I guess there are plenty of new players as well who play these kind of game the first time, that's why they sell and I guess it's good for the developers.
I knew my hardest problem would be to convince some of the hard-core roguelike defender players :) that's ok!
but yeah it's turn-based AND it's a roguelike. Even tho that's hard to define, going by this site's own defination (http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/ (http://www.roguetemple.com/roguelike-definition/)) Space Grunts has:
- it's turn-based
- it's grid-based
- there is permanent failure
- there are procedural environments (from layouts, to special rooms, rare items, etc)
- there is an inventory with items that change the outcome of your battles and progress
- you play with a single character
- there will be random conflict outcomes
so what's missing in your opinion? would love to know, cause perhaps I can still work some of the things in, that's why I joined these forums after all!
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so what's missing in your opinion?
Role-playing game which gives that overall roguelike feel to a game. If you don't have it almost everything can be a "roguelike".
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so what's missing in your opinion? would love to know, cause perhaps I can still work some of the things in, that's why I joined these forums after all!
Every man and his dog has their own set of definitions. You'll get Person A fervently saying that if it's not turn-based, then it's not a roguelike. And Person B emphasising some other different point on the scale as more important. I've played procedurally generated, turn-based, grid-based, etc games that were definitely not roguelikes.
Ultimately, it's not enough to want to make a roguelike, your game has to bear enough of a resemblance when seen and played. And you have to be willing to say it's not a roguelike, but it is a whatever "with roguelike elements" or use a nonsense term like roguelikelike or roguelite, if it's more honest.
If you can look in the mirror and say without being self-serving, that it is a roguelike, then just say it's a roguelike. But if you hold it up and compare it to a traditional roguelike, like Brogue, Rogue, Moria, DCSS, etc and it bears no resemblance, then what is it worth to call it a roguelike?
Trying to please people on forums is standing there while they're pissing in the wind. You'll feel confused and unclean, and certainly won't be any better off.
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so what's missing in your opinion? would love to know, cause perhaps I can still work some of the things in, that's why I joined these forums after all!
Every man and his dog has their own set of definitions. You'll get Person A fervently saying that if it's not turn-based, then it's not a roguelike. And Person B emphasising some other different point on the scale as more important. I've played procedurally generated, turn-based, grid-based, etc games that were definitely not roguelikes.
Ultimately, it's not enough to want to make a roguelike, your game has to bear enough of a resemblance when seen and played. And you have to be willing to say it's not a roguelike, but it is a whatever "with roguelike elements" or use a nonsense term like roguelikelike or roguelite, if it's more honest.
If you can look in the mirror and say without being self-serving, that it is a roguelike, then just say it's a roguelike. But if you hold it up and compare it to a traditional roguelike, like Brogue, Rogue, Moria, DCSS, etc and it bears no resemblance, then what is it worth to call it a roguelike?
Trying to please people on forums is standing there while they're pissing in the wind. You'll feel confused and unclean, and certainly won't be any better off.
It is a roguelike, it's that simple, and it has a lot in common with something like Brogue, since I actually play that since I started developing this game and took a lot of ideas and concepts as inspiration.
I'm not here to please people on this forum, I was hoping to get some constructive feedback from people to see what they would like to see in a game, since there is still room to add gamedesign elements to this one. And I believe this forum is part of my target audience, so who better to ask.
so far I just have to defend my game being a roguelike ;) so perhaps this isn't the audience I was aiming for :)
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so perhaps this isn't the audience I was aiming for :)
That's correct. You are in a wrong place, this is a roguelike forum. But the game looks quite nice anyway, nothing wrong with that.
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anyway..
working some more on the game over screen, adding the stats. Obviously need some darkening behind the text, but it's getting there:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_gameoverstats.png)
also added a new enemy type: warper. They teleport near you, take a shot, and warp back out.. hard to counter!
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_warpers.png)
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I'd say you are on a good track actually---this is far from your first rodeo, so stay the course and trust your instincts while continuing to polish, add content, and generally get things as slick as your can. If you find yourself pondering on the Roguelike efficacy or whatever of any given element or attribute you hope to employ as an ace in your hand---just take some time to compare and contrast it with whatever other projects you reckon to contain examples of it done in a good or interesting manner and take it from there.
Variety and fusions of arcade sensibilities are a good thing, keep at it.
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My first thought is that it looks cool. My second thought is that people are going to confuse it with Nuclear Throne and you should work really hard to highlight why it is not Nuclear Throne.
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Mouse controls are now also set (along side keyboard or controller):
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_mouseplay.png)
And the latest gameplay video, with the new light-system in place
can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tjQaruXQMo
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_screenshot05-300x188.png)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tjQaruXQMo)
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Little view on the inventory screen, this is where battles will be won: using the right items at the right time
currently I'm just extending the inventory with as many items as I can come up with, still some months away from release, so should be a bunch of items on release
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_inventory_640.png)
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The game is Space Grunts, designed as an action arcade game, but plays like a turn-based roguelike..
No it does not play like turn-based roguelike. It's just an action shooter.
it does actually, but okay :)
Don't let Krice bother you. He baits people and picks fights. It's kind of his hobby.
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It`s a good thing that people voice their objections, no point pretending there isn`t a little schizm in the Temple and that the subject doesn`t exist.
Space Grunts might be a decent game, but the likes of it are released every (other) week. True roguelikes, not so much. And the risk that they`ll be swept away and forgotten is real.
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And the risk that they`ll be swept away and forgotten is real.
Well then go post on a thread about one of them.
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You sound frustrated, what with italics and such, but that`s understood - it`s a feeling often expressed when there`s an elephant in the room.
@orangepascal: it`s unfortunate that a spill occurred in your particular dev thread, but it is a function of a bigger issue at hand. But, you asked for a feedback and Krice`s input - however crude or inadequate - qualifies.
In any rate, it`s hard to provide any substantial commentary judging just by gifs and videos - some playable code would be nice, though I don`t suppose your publishing model allows for that.
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@orangepascal: it`s unfortunate that a spill occurred in your particular dev thread, but it is a function of a bigger issue at hand. But, you asked for a feedback and Krice`s input - however crude or inadequate - qualifies.
In any rate, it`s hard to provide any substantial commentary judging just by gifs and videos - some playable code would be nice, though I don`t suppose your publishing model allows for that.
I indeed asked for feedback, sadly, I'm still waiting for any actual feedback besides the "it's not a roguelike" :)
if people, including you, don't see this as a roguelike but as "one of the many" then tell me what makes this seem like not a proper roguelike? give me feedback and it can help me make the game better or at least keep it in mind for my next game ;)
Sadly I can't do a demo yet at this time, but if someone can say it's not a roguelike based on what's shown.. then you can also tell me why it looks like not a roguelike and just "one of the many" (simple info like examples would be cool). I really haven't seen a game like this so would love to check out the "competition"
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Ha, I supposed that this phrase - "one of many" - won`t be to your liking, although it wasn`t actually intended as a slight. Just my take on the endless wave of new, ahem, roguelites - this week it`s Enter The Gungeon, last week Guild of Dungeoneering and so on.
Yes, yes, I know - your game is totally different. And these two also differ from each other...and yet :)
This subject - what is a true roguelike - is a swamp cum minefield, and discussions on topic rare and often explosive (hence my earlier post). Here`s the last one: http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4627.0 (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=4627.0) I couldn`t tell myself, it`s an elusive definition - something about complexity, intricacy, longevity, replayability - but even then, probably not. But, I`ve been playing Crawl every day for last two years, while Dredmor... a few times. So there is something to it.
Is your game "it"? Impossible to tell without playing -and quite possibly even after. To me it looks like another of the -lite wave, yeah, but again, it`s not a diss. I play and enjoy lots of them, Tallowmere being my latest favourite. It doesn`t matter though and it shouldn`t concern you. Just try and write what you feel is a good game, mission accomplished. Does it really have to be labelled with some elusive genre?
But as for real feedback, as I said before, rather hard without access to a working prototype. Look at other games in this section, they are all playable, hence multi-page replies.
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You sound frustrated, what with italics and such, but that`s understood - it`s a feeling often expressed when there`s an elephant in the room.
I'm frustrated precisely because it isn't an elephant in the room - in order for it to become one people would have to stop moaning about it at every opportunity. What we actually have here is a room with a colossal amount of shit in it, which you are attempting to blame an elephant for when it is perfectly obvious that the culprit is a bull.
@orangepascal: Apologies for the disruption to the thread about your game, which I for one am interested in hearing about.
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People "moan about it at every opportunity"...really? Must`ve missed it. Last similar outburst that I recall was months ago. (http://forums.roguetemple.com/index.php?topic=3668.msg42986#msg42986) But even if "they" did, well, it`s kind of what goes on internet forums. People post about things that bother them and some of these moans won`t fit your narrative. And yes, it`s sad it happened in some innocent dev`s thread but I`m sure he`ll get over this great trauma. There are worse things than a thread derailment.
However (let`s leave animal idioms be for a moment) here it`s more like that grand ol` family meeting where talking about what happened to Jenny is forbidden, and only now and then somebody will slip while others recoil in horror. That one recent thread regarding the subject, one I linked to in previous post lied dormant for weeks, had a burst of interesting activity, and fizzled out. And no, I didn`t see you contributing there or in fact any other regulars apart from few usual suspects. How disappointing. I don`t know, maybe you guys done it to death before and everybody is sick of this subject, just like it happens in some small communities. But forums aren`t just for the bunch of old time regulars - there`s noobs and lurkers too.
Well, whatever. Let`s leave it for now, till that next time when Uncle Krice has one too many and blurts out what some are thinking, some aren`t, but nobody wants to discuss in the open.
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meanwhile..
I've been adding the animation scene's that setup the story/introduction stuff:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_animation_640.png)
and also added a datacard+cpu system to give some hints, tips, and general lore:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_datacard01_640.png)
you'll find cpu's sparsely spread around the moon-based, and datacards even more sparsely in a "collect-em-all" style:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_datacard_640.png)
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more tinkering with the out-door zone.
Changing the lights a bit, and adding improved clouds:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_clouds_outdoor.gif)
and some people told me it was weird monitors didn't blow up when hit by rockets..
so fixed that!
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_breakstuff.gif)
Also updated the website with the latest images and artwork
you can check it out and sign up here:
www.spacegrunts.com (http://www.spacegrunts.com)
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/description_03.png)
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I don`t know, maybe you guys done it to death before and everybody is sick of this subject […]
Methinks you hit the hammer on the head there. That said, discuss away. The context is always changing, and more activity wouldn't hurt this forum.
On topic, Space Grunts sure looks cool. Fingers crossed for a release.
As always,
Minotauros
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A lot of stuff added again to the game this week, mostly making the interface simple and clear to use with either keyboard, mouse, or gamepad (or combo of any of those).
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_inventory.png)
You can now also drop items, making it possible to create a "safe room" with a teleporter-beacon to teleport toward and some health or power items.. or just create room for more interesting items!
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_droppingitems.png)
Also working on the character select, there are 3 classes, and with most of the game, they aren't traditional:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_charselect.png)
and finally added a little alien-plant thing (idea came from Brogue) which can either spread healing spores or potion:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/sg_spores.gif)
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/preorder_now.png)
I'm working towards a beta, hopefully in two weeks from now, with pre-orders being open for a 30% discount and Beta access for those willing to risk it or wanting to check it out early:
www.spacegrunts.com (http://www.spacegrunts.com)
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A week of polishing the interface while I get ready to release the "early access" beta to pre-orders.. nerve-wrecking as with all releases!
button and dialog interfaces are now made more bright and "sci-fi"
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/sg_interface2_640.png)
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/sg_interface3_640.png)
oh and just some extra eye-candy from one of the early moon-base levels:
(http://techblog.orangepixel.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/sg_screenshot_640.png)