Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Development => Programming => Topic started by: Endorya on July 08, 2013, 04:16:14 PM
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Hello, I've been trying my luck in many forums regarding this project of mine but with no luck.
This is a project I've been brewing for quite some time now, and this is my 4th attempt at it. It seems I finally got the right formula!
The project itself is very complex and it is already in the move. The editor will let anyone modify the core functionality of the game by using just the mouse (and possibility the keyboard to type names and descriptions), no coding necessary. I'm creating the editor in which will allow anyone to fully configure or change the whole game. From the editor we can:
- Define main attributes (Done)
- Define related attributes (which are connected to primary ones) (done)
- Define skills and skilltrees (80% done)
- Define materials from which items are made off (Done)
- Define item models (from which items will be dynamically generated in the game)
- Define item passive and active actions (attack, cast spell, increase attributes) (90% done)
- Define item sockets (done)
- Define item families (axed, sword, bow, book, potion, ammo, armor, clothe, acessory etc...) (Done)
- Define item qualities (decayed, broken, flawed, crude, ordinary, balanced, fine, superior, exquisite etc...) (done)
- Define places (models for cities, dungeons, lairs, caves, villages and others scenarios)
- Define quests
- Define dialogs for characters
- Define character races, personalities and mood types
- Define dynamic text in which words will be randomly used from a huge bank of synonyms and other predefined phrases and conditions.
- Define creature models including body parts, internal organs, loot etc...
- Define Historical events (famous characters, places, and other events of interest)
- Defining world settings for world generation (average temperature, humidity, precipitation etc...)
- Defining world seasons, months, times of day etc. Each one with their own attributes and modifiers
The list is not complete because some of these steps still require my attention and will be further subdivided.
But what kind of scenarios will this editor be able to produce? It will be able to brew complex roguelike games starting by generate the planet where the action will unfold, along with creatures, civilizations, items, quests, history figures and many sites of interest such as cities, ruins, castles, dungeons, caves etc. bound to that very planet terraforming seed. The player will be born with a purpose and even such purpose will be also randomly generated, from killing or banish something or someone, to finding a person or a missing object bound to a certain objective.
The game shall start when the player is born and after he reaches maturity. His childhood will also be randomized based on some criteria which will then influence his starting personality and skills. Whenever the player starts a new game faith can let you be brought to life with physical deficiencies which can immediately be spotted or not. Some may only be revealed after some time, like heart problems, sight and hearing dysfunctions while other can take years or even decades of in-game-time game play to kick in. But luckily this can be permanently healed through magic.
The player will be born in a random city based on his chosen race. He can be born in a poor, average or in rich family, each faith with its own advantages and disadvantages. After the games starts, a wide variety of skills will be available for him to improve, from melee and ranged combat, gathering, crafting, body & mind working, scholar, magic and survival. It is up to the player to increase whatever skills he wants, through training by himself and more efficiently by attending to schools or hiring trainers and teachers.
The world is a dangerous and deadly place for adventures so the player will explore it carefully and restlessly until his main quest is fulfilled or his life claimed by someone or something else. During this, he will meet people with incredible personalities, moods and with their own ideals. Some will enjoy the player's company while others can hate him just by his appearance, bad dialog text choices, or by karma that the player accumulates from performing deeds, which can be seen as good by some and bad by others, depending on the faction that foresees it.
Combat will be deadly and extremely complex so players will need to be careful when choosing foes. The player can build his own party by hiring people or asking friends he may have done previously to join him in his crusades. Making a friend will be something that will required time to achieve and your party members will oppose against your command if they do not agree with your orders. So don't expect to ask a party of good men to rob farmers.
The game play mechanics extends itself through out many areas, the player will explore many places and each place will have their own creatures depending of its geographic location. Every living being will react to the weather and some will only be spotted at specific times of day or of the year. The player will be able to craft pretty much every item available in the game and will rely on his knowledge and intelligence to escape puzzling situations. As the world gets closer to the sun the planet's surface changes accordant (the planet has no axial tilt). Proper clothing will be a necessity to endure through cold and hot regions. Creatures will have their own deity and nutrient needs, so you won't survive just by eating apples throughout the whole game. Some will be carnivores others herbivores, omnivores, fruitivores; the player will need to make sure he carries the right supplies before venturing throughout the world.
NPC will give you quests randomly and there will be times you will take part of epic battles, reaching thousands of NPCs fighting for whatever purpose they believe so. As the player makes allies he inevitably makes new enemies. He can be part of all this or live by his own away from everyone, until trouble finally finds him. The player can marry, have a wife and children in case he plays as an heterosexual character. Yes the player can choose whatever sexual orientation he want to. This will be done throw actions and situations where the game asks for the players opinion regarding a subject and depending on his answer the game the game starts to build a psychologist profile, which can lead to certain changes and action restriction in various circumstances.
There are many other things the player will be able to do like building his own house or castle as long he has the resources, men and time to do it. The player will age with time and he in extreme conditions he can actually die of aging. All items will degrade with time, mainly your food. Magic, alchemy and enchanting will also play an important role but magic will not be used as in traditional games. To cast a spell the mage will need the meet the necessary requirements of the magic school he may try to use. For example, Eclipse magic school requires the sun to be out and Sun magic school requires the sun present in the sky or a source of fire to cast fire spells. Thankfully mages can charge runes to cast spells specially for conditions like this, where they are not able to meet the magic school's requirements.
Text for dialogs, general description of environments or items will be generated on the fly through a complex formula the will use synonyms to generate dialogs without making them look dull and repetitive. NPCs will have memory and remember your doings so the player will need to be extremely carefully when choosing his words. I'm actually planning to build a formula so that you can actually chat with NPC, where he might recognize your words but this will be saved for last.
No non-sense lot. there are no bags dropped with 100 pieces of gold or with healing potions as reward by slaying a cow. At most you can chop the cow's corpse to retrieve whatever the cow's body has to offer. All items displayed in shops and houses or items carried by anyone can either be purchased or stolen. This includes clothing, this way you can leave someone completely naked, if you choose to steal everything from your victim. Book will be an extremely vital source of information able to increase skills as well explaining all there is to know about the game and how the game actually works.
Well and I think this is it, about 50% was left out because it would required examples and more examples so you could have an idea of the flexibility and possibilities present in the game.
Now, I have a major problem, I would like to increase the rate at which the game is being developed, but for this I need help. I don't need coders but people with ideas towards game play, formula assistance on how to keep track of variables and how variables should interfere. I also need researchers to help me out understanding how metals, rock and other crafting should proceed in medieval era.
Most things are open for discussion and I'm a very flexible guy as far ideas are concerned. So if there is a feature you've always wished for and that never ended being implemented in a game, well I think this is your chance.
I've lost the count of how many times I tried to recruit people for this project, which people seem to love once I get into details but unfortunately people end up doing nothing because either they are too busy or are not really committed to such task.
If you have spare time and would love to be part of some major production with some fool that no one knew nothing about, do feel free to post or add me at skype:
efiletahi-a
I've been brewing this little sucker for 7 years now, with many pauses, redesigns and long periods of negligence due to not having someone to whom I could share my vision and thoughts. I can say that my wife has helped me with race design, but she does not share my enthusiasm...
What I mean by a new type of roguelike is a game retaining the complexity of a roguelike while changing one major game-play key. There will be no "enter-wilderness" option where the player guides its char or party of chars ("@") using the cursor to explore that zoomed-in portion of land. Instead, the game will feature a huge map (a full planet sized map, generated on the fly) in which the player moves his character or party around between large portions of land. The map will have 400x250 areas, giving the total of 100k places to explore, excluding most tiles regarded as sea.
So, is this a good thing? I can't really say it is better or worst for everyone. I know I prefer it this way. I prefer party management to (sometimes) boring exploration sessions. Not that I don't love exploring, in fact it is the thing I love most about roguelike games but sometimes exploration can end up lacking interest, depending the game we are talking about. So in other to fix this "issue" I offer the following game play:
You will have to maintain your party between traveling periods which can last from days to months, depending on distance and terrain type. This means you will have to pay attention to supplies and dress accordingly to climates you may pass by or that may be your destination. Resting will be far more complex, you get to choose who takes care of the food and shelter, how stands on watch (including shifts) and even who helps the wounded. I'm also planning to build some automatism for those not wanting to feel overwhelmed with possible tedious tasks.
You will hit the explore button to explore the current land you are in. During this process many things may occur like locating exploration sites such as dungeons, ruins, camps, lairs, cities, lonely houses and other places of interest and being ambushed by wild life, bandits or enemy forces of the opposing alignment you might be with. Other things will include fortunate and unfortunate situations like a character slipping down a ravine or finding a hidden chest in the woods. There will be a huge set of Skills responsible to change the success rate of everything that can happen during the exploration period.
The exploration of dungeons and other places will then proceed (more or less) as in any other roguelike game, that is, having traditional movement in a zoomed-in view of his char/party as found in roguelike games, though many things will be described in text. Combats will be detailed and deadly as expected, with many unexpected situations making readings like: "Player hits the troll in the left arm causing a massive bleeding" less tedious and repeating. For instance I plan to show the target's body divided in parts where wounded parts will be marked in different colors, depending on its damaged gravity so you can keep track of the target's physical condition as if you were there in the battle.
The game will be operated mostly with mouse has it will have a graphical user interface. Some people will enjoy this others won't. From my understanding, a roguelike's steep learning curve is mostly about the non-intuitive user interface (I still remembering playing ADOM and spending a great deal of time memorizing keys before I could actually enjoy the game), says me, my wife and so says other players I've come to met during my existence.
When in cities a complex interface is planned to show everything it has by categories, like towns persons, buildings, services etc. Every NPC in the game will have a story, background, needs, a personality and can bear good or bad intentions and I want to let the player know each one of them. The cities info (like many other interactive assets and places) will be displayed in a datagrid where filers can be applied (similar to EVE Online). This will let you keep track of everything in an easy way (I guess).
So basically this is it. I'm really not sure how well this "innovations" will be received by you having into account this forum is about a game that plays against some of my game's features. I only ask you to hold your shotgun and friendly discuss these key features with me.
Sorry for the long post and I hope I can finally find a friend with whom I might share such enthusiasm.
Screenies of my work:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ryuei1b5gf3dw1z/Screenies.zip
NOTE: The editor is the software I'm developing to output the roguelike game. This is from the developer perspective and what those interesting in helping me will use to build the game. The player DOES NOT need to operate this editor to play the game, instead the player will download the game itself.
Please, the map generation screen is part of a previous version which I discarded, pay only attention to the world map presented in it.
So basically the editor offers the flexibility to anyone change the game at any time. Those that will work with me will be able to add skills and attributes without requiring my coding skills to do so. They will be able to include those features they always wished for and if the editor doesn't have a place for them I can make that happen (if they are relevent). I'm focusing on offering tremendous choice and possibilities for each time the player used the game. Each world generated will breed his own creatures, items quests, and historic figures. I'm pretty curious to see it in action!
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Hey!
I saw your post on the DF forums as well.
I think the main problem with the way you are approaching this is that you are presenting this project mainly as a technical one. Look at the opening of the post: you have a list of what I assume are data definition files that need to be done. That's not going to attract a lot of people!
Right now the game appears to be a collection of technical possibilities, but no more. It's hard to get a idea of how the game is going to play out, of what the player is supposed to do, of what his goals might be. Furthermore, you don't appear to have a lot to show for it, so that it looks like it's mostly an ideas thing rather than an actual thing where a "designer" can get involved.
Some screenshots or videos would do wonders, I think :)
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Hey!
I saw your post on the DF forums as well.
I think the main problem with the way you are approaching this is that you are presenting this project mainly as a technical one. Look at the opening of the post: you have a list of what I assume are data definition files that need to be done. That's not going to attract a lot of people!
Right now the game appears to be a collection of technical possibilities, but no more. It's hard to get a idea of how the game is going to play out, of what the player is supposed to do, of what his goals might be. Furthermore, you don't appear to have a lot to show for it, so that it looks like it's mostly an ideas thing rather than an actual thing where a "designer" can get involved.
Some screenshots or videos would do wonders, I think :)
Thank you very much for the hint. I will take care of some screenies and post them both here and at DF forums.
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More important than screen shots would be an explanation of your goals.
What mechanics have you decided to include so far? Do you want the player's skill or the party's stats to be the bigger factor in determining success? Will this game have an end goal? If so, what is it? If not, how do you intend to maintain the player's interest over time? How combat-heavy do you want this to be? Do you want this game to have a strong "snowball" effect, where smaller problems lead to bigger ones, or would you prefer that the player has a good chance to recover? Are you looking to make more of a sandbox or more of a traditional game?
It's difficult to help someone with design when you don't know what they're designing.
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More important than screen shots would be an explanation of your goals.
What mechanics have you decided to include so far? Do you want the player's skill or the party's stats to be the bigger factor in determining success? Will this game have an end goal? If so, what is it? If not, how do you intend to maintain the player's interest over time? How combat-heavy do you want this to be? Do you want this game to have a strong "snowball" effect, where smaller problems lead to bigger ones, or would you prefer that the player has a good chance to recover? Are you looking to make more of a sandbox or more of a traditional game?
It's difficult to help someone with design when you don't know what they're designing.
Thanks for your post! I've updated in dark blue a bit further of what is expected to see in the game.
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This seems more like an "everything simulator" than an actual game. At some point if you have to prepare for hours and hours just so you have enough to go on an adventure, it won't be much of a game. It might have this feeling of epicness if you manage to do something, but honestly it might be a little too complex to be enjoyed.
Don't get me wrong, I *love* sandboxes, but they need to allow me to do something meaningful without having to play for 10h just to get ready for my first adventure. I feel you will restrict your playerbase to the most hardcore of players, which is fine if that's what you want :)
I'll also point out that that feature list is pretty extensive, and comparable to Dwarf Fortress'... DF came out in 2006 and has been in full-time development for quite a few years since then. People will naturally be unconvinced about the feasibility of all this, from a developer with no previous track record :) Please don't take this the wrong way, it's just the natural way of things for someone without a track record :)
I've been trying to make a game for quite a few years now, and the feature list of things that I want to put in has been decreasing rather than increasing as I realise how much commitment and work getting everything to work takes :)
Also, is perma-death going to be an option? I assume not, since it seems like a huge level of involvement for enormous amounts of risk. Even without perma-death, and with saving, if there's so much involved in just staying alive (with all the nutrients, etc), there's the possibility of you getting yourself in an situation where you are going to starve no matter what.
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What I mean by a new type of roguelike is a game retaining the complexity of a roguelike while changing one major game-play key. There will be no "enter-wilderness" option where the player guides its char or party of chars ("@") using the cursor to explore that zoomed-in portion of land. Instead, the game will feature a huge map (a full planet sized map, generated on the fly) in which the player moves his character or party around between large portions of land. The map will have 400x250 areas, giving the total of 100k places to explore, excluding most tiles regarded as sea.
I don't understand that difference, can you explain a bit?
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This seems more like an "everything simulator" than an actual game. At some point if you have to prepare for hours and hours just so you have enough to go on an adventure, it won't be much of a game. It might have this feeling of epicness if you manage to do something, but honestly it might be a little too complex to be enjoyed.
Don't get me wrong, I *love* sandboxes, but they need to allow me to do something meaningful without having to play for 10h just to get ready for my first adventure. I feel you will restrict your playerbase to the most hardcore of players, which is fine if that's what you want :)
No, the editor is used only by me and by all those who want to develop the a roguelike game. You won’t need to change anything. In fact you will download the game itself rather the editor. The editor screenies are there to let those interested in the project see what they will use in other to help me out. I need help supplying the editor with information, not building the editor itself.
I'll also point out that that feature list is pretty extensive, and comparable to Dwarf Fortress'... DF came out in 2006 and has been in full-time development for quite a few years since then. People will naturally be unconvinced about the feasibility of all this, from a developer with no previous track record :) Please don't take this the wrong way, it's just the natural way of things for someone without a track record :)
No problem at all
Also, is perma-death going to be an option? I assume not, since it seems like a huge level of involvement for enormous amounts of risk. Even without perma-death, and with saving, if there's so much involved in just staying alive (with all the nutrients, etc), there's the possibility of you getting yourself in an situation where you are going to starve no matter what.
Saving the game will be a limited feature. You get to save periodically by using a diary and ink which is than consumed afterwards. But if perma-death is something people really demand I will gladly add it.
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What I mean by a new type of roguelike is a game retaining the complexity of a roguelike while changing one major game-play key. There will be no "enter-wilderness" option where the player guides its char or party of chars ("@") using the cursor to explore that zoomed-in portion of land. Instead, the game will feature a huge map (a full planet sized map, generated on the fly) in which the player moves his character or party around between large portions of land. The map will have 400x250 areas, giving the total of 100k places to explore, excluding most tiles regarded as sea.
I don't understand that difference, can you explain a bit?
What roguelike games have you played? I need to know this so I can explain it through a solid comparison.
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Those screen shots look impressive. I didn't think you could really live up to your ambitions, but those are some convincing screen shots.
I mean, your goals still sound borderline unattainable, but it at least looks like you're really serious about it. Even if you can't do everything, you've at least got something, is what I'm saying.
So are there any particular design issues you wanted advice on?
What kind of a setting are you going to use?
A lot of the people around here have a good grasp of game design, and I'd definitely ask for their advice if I had something in the works. Personally, I'd be happy to give advice on anything, but I can't commit to long-term participation in your project.
I don't understand that difference, can you explain a bit?
Alright, so you know how some games have a world map you can use for fast travel, and you can zoom in on parts of the world map to interact with the world directly?
This game supposedly has a world that large, but it is always zoomed in.
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Those screen shots look impressive. I didn't think you could really live up to your ambitions, but those are some convincing screen shots. I mean, your goals still sound borderline unattainable, but it at least looks like you're really serious about it. Even if you can't do everything, you've at least got something, is what I'm saying.
You have no idea of how good I felt by reading your words. Believe me, I'm definitely serious about it for 7 years now. I would just need someone to whom I could share this project. You know to discuss it so I can hear his opinion, ideas an criticism and the best part, this person does not need coding skills but the same enthusiasm I have.
So are there any particular design issues you wanted advice on?
In every possible way, I mean I would like to discuss the whole project and somehow being guided for once instead coding and doing all the heavy lifting as far game designing is concerned.
What kind of a setting are you going to use?
Definitely medieval fantasy! I do love deadly, close encounters as well as huge and majestic creatures. Sword & shield, castles, ruins, ghosts, hunting, vast areas filled with mystery and historical events. There is simple so much "glamor" around medieval times.
This game supposedly has a world that large, but it is always zoomed in.
In fact is quite the opposite, the game will always be in zoomed-out. Hmm, did I fail to explain it? :/
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I really envy those persons who have the luxury if finding someone sharing the same interests and that build something together. Most people wish they could be rich. Me? Just wish I could find someone sharing my interests and enthusiasm.
Long ago I made some table games with some friends but we all moved in different directions and I got alone. I sacrifice most of my spare time to devote myself to this project and sometimes I really wonder if all this is really worthy. But then I keep pushing forward. We have this saying in Portugal: "One will not get tired by running if running is his passion".
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I really envy those persons who have the luxury if finding someone sharing the same interests and that build something together. Most people wish they could be rich. Me? Just wish I could find someone sharing my interests and enthusiasm.
Long ago I made some table games with some friends but we all moved in different directions and I got alone. I sacrifice most of my spare time to devote myself to this project and sometimes I really wonder if all this is really worthy. But then I keep pushing forward. We have this saying in Portugal: "One will not get tired by running if running is his passion".
What?! Mais um Português? Catano, nós estamos por todo o lado!
Sorry guys - just found out this here fellow is my compatriot, haha! Also, I feel for you... that first paragraph pretty much describes me. Turns out I get interested in the most esoteric things and it's almost impossible to find someone to share them with in person...
I think the idea for this game is more like the old game series Lords of Doomdark, or whatever the name was. It's on a more macro level than roguelikes. Instead of manually going around a dungeon, you could simply enter something like a province, and tell your hero to explore. Your hero might find and automatically explore a dungeon, and come back with loot and/or wounds. You won't get to manually fight the monsters. So, more strategy, less tactics? Correct me if I am wrong.
I also think I became confused with your answer to my previous post. I understand that in the editor you can define items, materials, nutrients, races, and that kind of stuff. The game itself uses these. So if you want to go adventuring, like you yourself said, you'll need to prepare and get food with a nice nutrient distribution for your race, etc. This seems a bit like overdoing it - too much to worry about before going on an adventure. A true real-life simulator is probably just as boring as real-life can be :) Don't you feel you might be going a bit too far in that regard?
Also, out of curiosity, what are you using to program this? Also, where in Portugal are you from?
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The project is very ambitious. The only thing it lacks is multiplayer ;D. If you'll take 2 cents of advice from someone who has scrapped a few projects. Try to start out small, get to a playable state as soon as possible, it will keep your morale up. If you look at big games and other projects around, they all started very small and unambitious. It will be also easier to recruit some help. Frankly, the size of the project and the fact that you only have screenshots would scare me away, if I was interested.
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I really envy those persons who have the luxury if finding someone sharing the same interests and that build
What?! Mais um Português? Catano, nós estamos por todo o lado!
Noooo waayyyyy... Boa surpresa! Nós somos uma praga! ;)
Sorry guys - just found out this here fellow is my compatriot, haha! Also, I feel for you... that first paragraph pretty much describes me. Turns out I get interested in the most esoteric things and it's almost impossible to find someone to share them with in person...
Esoteric things? That is something I'm quite familiar with... what kind of stuff you're curious about?
Your hero might find and automatically explore a dungeon, and come back with loot and/or wounds. You won't get to manually fight the monsters. So, more strategy, less tactics? Correct me if I am wrong.
In my game the exploration of land will be automatic which basically consists on waiting for a progress bar as places of interest get noted in your journal, but when you explore sites like a dungeon you will sense it in 3rd person and move around but by chunks, like a grid in which the dungeon is designed, where a cell may be a room, a corridor, or a long stairway. Combats on the other hand will be mostly done like in final fantasy, where your party and the enemy will be place in a combat area, though they will everything will be represented by text.
I also think I became confused with your answer to my previous post. I understand that in the editor you can define items, materials, nutrients, races, and that kind of stuff. The game itself uses these. So if you want to go adventuring, like you yourself said, you'll need to prepare and get food with a nice nutrient distribution for your race, etc. This seems a bit like overdoing it - too much to worry about before going on an adventure. A true real-life simulator is probably just as boring as real-life can be :) Don't you feel you might be going a bit too far in that regard?
I've already answered that at DF forums but I will do it also here so that everyone around here knows about it too. Though the game will understand and keep track of what you eat it will not apply penalties immediately in case you don't satiate those values. When you go on an adventure you will go over a store to buy supplies and you will have a button to automatically select all types of food based on all members composing your party.
So with one mouse click you get to buy all the necessary food depending on the estimated days you think you will stay in the wilderness. 1 click is all it takes to prepare your party with supplies for a 1 week or a 1 month journey. Also, food restriction may not be a problem if you choose a certain type of race but even though the game will alert the player that member X requires a certain type of food. This requirements will add tremendous fun and a deep strategy value whenever you decide to do something. The whole thing works well by having the game constantly supervising and alerting the player of less unfortunate foreseeable situations. So it reliefs the player from the heavy load needing to constantly checking if his party is well fed, hydrated and satiated as far nutritional requirements are concerned, allowing you to focus on actually gaming.
Also, out of curiosity, what are you using to program this? Also, where in Portugal are you from?
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I'm using Visual Studio and I'm coding it using C#. I'm from Barreiro, you?
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The project is very ambitious. The only thing it lacks is multiplayer ;D. If you'll take 2 cents of advice from someone who has scrapped a few projects. Try to start out small, get to a playable state as soon as possible, it will keep your morale up. If you look at big games and other projects around, they all started very small and unambitious. It will be also easier to recruit some help. Frankly, the size of the project and the fact that you only have screenshots would scare me away, if I was interested.
Thanks for the tip. I hear this constantly and it makes all sense of the world but I need to start big because otherwise I will loose interest in it, which will lead me to start another project from scratch so satiate my ideas and imaginative needs. Call me fool. It's ok :)
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It's ok, I'm also a fool :D, but I maintain a playable game that I send out to friends. It's kind of a bottom-up instead top-down approach. Even if you have 10 programmers on salary, it's better to go bottom-up.
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I think I'm slowly getting a better hang of what you're trying to do with the game :)
Esoteric things? That is something I'm quite familiar with... what kind of stuff you're curious about?
Oh, you know... the usual... I love blacksmithing, WW2, in particular aviation (IL2 Sturmovik anyone?), napoleonic naval warfare, historical reenactment, parkour... all of which read about intensively and practice or am starting to practice. I'd love to get a pilot's license and a sailor's license. One day, when I'm rich ;)
I also agree with miki's advice. I keep reducing features for my games... even right now I feel like I'm biting off more than I can chew, and I have tons less than what you do! In particular, I feel there's a huge difference between having the data, and actually using it. I just started reading about how a game engine should be organised, and it's absolutely not trivial. There's definitely a ton to it than getting and setting properties, which is what I was doing previously with my inheritance-based OOP design :(
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I think I'm slowly getting a better hang of what you're trying to do with the game :)
Esoteric things? That is something I'm quite familiar with... what kind of stuff you're curious about?
Oh, you know... the usual... I love blacksmithing, WW2, in particular aviation (IL2 Sturmovik anyone?), napoleonic naval warfare, historical reenactment, parkour... all of which read about intensively and practice or am starting to practice. I'd love to get a pilot's license and a sailor's license. One day, when I'm rich ;)
You basically hit the jackpot and yes, I know IL2 but I prefer Lock On Flaming cliffs. Anyway, I keep watching these WW2 documentaries on you tube :) specially regarding tanks and U-Boats. But lately I've been quite busy with my project.
But you didn't tell me. From which part of Portugal are you?
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Let's take it to PM ;)
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What is your background as programmer and game developer? This sounds a lot like "generic idea" project, stuff all things in and hope something will happen.
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What is your background as programmer and game developer? This sounds a lot like "generic idea" project, stuff all things in and hope something will happen.
I code for a living (full time and in spare time) since December 2004 and my skills as a game developer started about the same time. I've done 1 strategy game (similar to laser squad) and the first variant of of this project (which was a way over-simplified version) both games reached alpha state and then I completely lost interest in them as they could no longer support my ever growing ideas, unless I would totally redesigned them from scratch.
This project might sound like a library of "generic ideas" because it would take a great deal of time and effort to put everything into a concise and detailed text document (more like a tome), along with formulas and detailed game play mechanics. Also, parts of the game are sill being designed even knowing their essence and purpose is all noted down. I prefer to allocate this time in actually developing the game. You may think that this approach diminishes the chances of recruiting team members but honestly I believe that a detailed document would scare people away has they would realize the magnitude of the project.
So, my chances of recruiting someone is basically zero. But since I'm not expecting help at all, I can barely miss sleeping over it. In fact I plan to abandon this thread and my other thread at DF forums by the end of the week, as the project at his current state only awakens curiosity, nothing else. I really can't blame anyone for this can I? :)
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So, my chances of recruiting someone is basically zero.
It's not that bad. Roguelike development is easy.
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Perhaps if you did a quick tech demo, using the materials that you can already put into the editor, people would see what can actually happen, and that might open their imagination.
It's actually kind of ironic, usually the trouble is finding programmers, not idea people :)
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You should put the screen shots as images in your original post, rather than as a zip file.
The content that you've got there is quite cool but over-excited threads about non-existent super-projects are fairly common in the roguelike dev world and you've obviously moved beyond the planning stage and into something fairly worthwhile, but that isn't immediately obvious unless you dig around for the images.
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I think I will have to develop the editor a bit more and probably starting coding the main .EXE before I can actually have the attention of anyone. But having people helping at this point would actually make the whole difference. And yes, it is quit ironic, I'm searching for people that is willing to listen and discuss the project and not exactly searching for coders, GFX artists and sound designers, which is actually the hardest thing to come by.
I really wonder, what does it take to have someone's attention. You know, having someone approaching me saying: "I would like to hear more about it. I might be able to help if I find it interesting." But I guess people is just too busy developing their own projects or doing other things.
My best shot is finding someone in extreme need of creating an roguelike but without the resources to do it.
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You should put the screen shots as images in your original post, rather than as a zip file.
The content that you've got there is quite cool but over-excited threads about non-existent super-projects are fairly common in the roguelike dev world and you've obviously moved beyond the planning stage and into something fairly worthwhile, but that isn't immediately obvious unless you dig around for the images.
The reason for the zip file was due to not having the ability to add attachments when posting (at least I don't see how). And services like Photobucket do tend to re-size the shoots that are considered big, as my screenies so I just made the zip. Direct links would be best, no arguing there. :)
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Just wondering and please understand, this request might be totally inappropriate going beyond the boundaries of common sense but still I need to ask it, at this point I'm just willing to hit full throttle to never look back as I'm totally committed to my goal.
[A request to forum the admins] Would it be possible to have a forum section or a sticky thread reserved for my project as being my personal developing log? I honestly don't see a better place to do it.
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Uh, why not set up your own development blog? This is a forum, not a personal blog site.
Also, you should probably come up with a name for your project ;)
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Uh, why not set up your own development blog? This is a forum, not a personal blog site.
Yeah, I guess I need to set up my own blog. I have a forum already but it does not meet my necessities.
Any advice on a website service that could produce something like this: http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/
Also, you should probably come up with a name for your project ;)
Both the editor and the game have a name already but since they are prone to change there is no point sharing them for now. Once I set up a website I do need to think of something permanent; there is a chance they will remain as is. I just need to make that those names are available.
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I code for a living (full time and in spare time) since December 2004 and my skills as a game developer started about the same time. I've done 1 strategy game (similar to laser squad) and the first variant of of this project (which was a way over-simplified version) both games reached alpha state and then I completely lost interest
Let's get back to this. So you have never finished a game project? And you are a professional programmer, but don't see any problems in this project?
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Today I will develop the land types like mountain, forest, sand desert, swamp etc. These land types will have multipliers which will affect the world's average climate attributes, such as temperature, humidity, wind, precipitation, cloudage, lightning strikes and storms chances; there will be multipliers for day and night times.
Each land type will also dictate the type of resources available like the amount of wild life, ore, vegetation, trees, water etc. as well as the type of ground and dirt. I will a post a screen once I complete it.
It would be really nice if I could add image attachments. It this feature disabled in the forum or it requires a certain amount of posts / trust level to unlock?
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I don't think there's any built-in image support. I'd just upload it to imgur if I was you and then post the direct link in [img] tags
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I code for a living (full time and in spare time) since December 2004 and my skills as a game developer started about the same time. I've done 1 strategy game (similar to laser squad) and the first variant of of this project (which was a way over-simplified version) both games reached alpha state and then I completely lost interest
Let's get back to this. So you have never finished a game project? And you are a professional programmer, but don't see any problems in this project?
The only problem I see with this project, is me developing it alone, which will strongly affect its development rate. There is nothing that I plan to include in this project that my coding skills won't cover. In fact, this project is all about logic, formulas, choice and randomization, there will be no path finding (A*) or complex AI routines.
Once I settle all the designing, the game engine will then slowly rise from the ground by carefully plugging in it functions to make use of all the variables and settings introduced through the editor. It should start with this order:
1 - Character generation (a possibly his best friend)
2 - Base World map generation
3 - Let the player roam freely throughout an almost empty world
4 - Build the weather system and day cycles
5 - Populate the world with exploration sites like dungeons, caves and cities.
6 - Include creature generation during the world generation phase
7 - Include Item generation during the world generation phase
8 - Populate land types with resources and wild life
(From here there is no specific order that)
- Begin to code actions and the interaction with the environment
- Make attributes work
- Make skills work
- Make quests work
etc...
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I don't think there's any built-in image support. I'd just upload it to imgur if I was you and then post the direct link in [img] tags
Oh, ok. Thanks for letting me know about imgur service.
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The only problem I see with this project, is me developing it alone, which will strongly affect its development rate. There is nothing that I plan to include in this project that my coding skills won't cover.
If I were looking for a project I could contribute to, I wouldn't feel motivated having read that the main programmer never accomplishes what he had begun. Here's the main problem, I guess. Show that the project is heading somewhere and that it will not end up as another wonderful idea nobody wants to implement.
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If I were looking for a project I could contribute to, I wouldn't feel motivated having read that the main programmer never accomplishes what he had begun. Here's the main problem, I guess. Show that the project is heading somewhere and that it will not end up as another wonderful idea nobody wants to implement.
And I fully understand that. But I explained the reasons to why I didn't finished the projects I mentioned, not because I felt bored and decided to take a break but because I wanted more. I think the screenshots already indicate the project is heading somewhere and that it has passed the theory boundaries. Help is always needed at any point but mainly at the early stage, where the heavy work lingers.
Sure we can wait to let the workers build a house so later you can personally help placing the ceiling, making sure your effort is not in vain, but then again, if such tremendous effort was already taken to build the house to that point, having an extra hand helping placing the ceiling won't be the worker's concern. At least this is how I view it.
But then again, I can't blame anyone for feeling that way. I think I would feel in a similar way too. But success involves risking. If we are only to do the stuff we are 100% sure that it will be a success, then many successful projects we have today wouldn't exist.
Sometimes help is needed to dig holes in the ground where the house's foundations will be constructed.
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1 - Character generation (a possibly his best friend)
2 - Base World map generation
3 - Let the player roam freely throughout an almost empty world
4 - Build the weather system and day cycles
5 - Populate the world with exploration sites like dungeons, caves and cities.
6 - Include creature generation during the world generation phase
7 - Include Item generation during the world generation phase
8 - Populate land types with resources and wild life
You've got a huuuuuuge amount of world generation and modeling systems, but no gameplay it seems at all.
IMO, to get someone on your project, you should give them a taste of what the game could be like not from world gen material lists, but from in-game, actually playing.
The list should read something like:
- Program in a basic character with fixed loadout
- Character movement and basic player controls
- Generate a sample level of some fixed size
- Make a little dungeon to go into and whack a couple monsters
And then once you have that little framework, then you can entice people by showing vids/screenshots of how "just with like two screens, a couple monsters, and a basic character, look at all the gameplay options we could have since in this screenie the character is equipped with a sword of this material, but the enemies are this, but in this screenie over here, you have a totally different character who has taught himself KNITTING!!! and has a DEATH SCARF!!!"
Basically, get an extremely basic couple levels together, a testbed for gameplay really, and then demonstrate to potential designers what COULD be with your systems. That'll show progress, and real promise, and get people thinking about your unique systems.
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1 - Character generation (a possibly his best friend)
2 - Base World map generation
3 - Let the player roam freely throughout an almost empty world
4 - Build the weather system and day cycles
5 - Populate the world with exploration sites like dungeons, caves and cities.
6 - Include creature generation during the world generation phase
7 - Include Item generation during the world generation phase
8 - Populate land types with resources and wild life
You've got a huuuuuuge amount of world generation and modeling systems, but no gameplay it seems at all.
IMO, to get someone on your project, you should give them a taste of what the game could be like not from world gen material lists, but from in-game, actually playing.
The list should read something like:
- Program in a basic character with fixed loadout
- Character movement and basic player controls
- Generate a sample level of some fixed size
- Make a little dungeon to go into and whack a couple monsters
And then once you have that little framework, then you can entice people by showing vids/screenshots of how "just with like two screens, a couple monsters, and a basic character, look at all the gameplay options we could have since in this screenie the character is equipped with a sword of this material, but the enemies are this, but in this screenie over here, you have a totally different character who has taught himself KNITTING!!! and has a DEATH SCARF!!!"
Basically, get an extremely basic couple levels together, a testbed for gameplay really, and then demonstrate to potential designers what COULD be with your systems. That'll show progress, and real promise, and get people thinking about your unique systems.
Thanks for the hint!
[EDIT]
But developing such demo means having pretty much everything in place already, otherwise the user won't have a clue of how it plays and feels.
- For the user to experience the NPC interaction, the NPC should be fully implemented.
- For he experience how exploring a dungeon feels like the whole thing should also be in place, with proper loot, creatures, triggers and with all elements and restrictions present.
- Skill trees and attributes should also be in place so he can understand what is expected and how they play.
Otherwise it will just feel like any other game.
What makes this game "special" is the complexity behind it. If the user just want's to have an "idea" of how it plays, I think it can do it through text. I could always build a demo .EXE or a video showing exactly what is to be expected but that would that consume a great deal of time. I rather invest that time into the real thing. Don't worry, I'm not expecting any help any time soon anyway.
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there will be no path finding (A*)
Good luck with getting anywhere without a path finding algorithm ;D
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there will be no path finding (A*)
Good luck with getting anywhere without a path finding algorithm ;D
Why would I need luck for something the game will not use? This only means that either you failed to understand the concept described in the opening post or that I failed to properly explain it. Do you really believe I would miss path-finding after 7 years of brewing it? :o
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Maybe I did miss the point, but I'm judging based on how often I use pathfinding myself. Not only for AI, but for terrain generation. It's such a basic building block for games, and rather easy to code. Anyway, sorry for attacking you like that, it's not my business ::)
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- For the user to experience the NPC interaction, the NPC should be fully implemented.
--snip---
If the user just want's to have an "idea" of how it plays, I think it can do it through text. I
Saying you need NPC interaction fully complete before you have basic gameplay is kind of like saying you need to have picked the color of your tablecloth before you start laying bricks for the foundation of your house. How will you know what's fun and interesting without trying some actual gameplay?
My suggestion wasn't about enticing the user, it was about enticing a game designer to help you make a game out of your disparate systems by showing them what you have and how it might come together.
If you go to a clothes store, they put clothes on mannequins. This is to give you an idea how it might be put together into a specific outfit. It makes you want to get involved with the "project" of making an outfit with their building blocks.
Similarly you're offering a bunch of system building blocks. You need to get a designer interested in the ways those blocks could be used for fun gameplay.
The actual user (player?) comes way later.
The fact that you mention "user" instead of player makes it sound like you really believe you're building a productivity application, or a library.
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Yeah, going with a "vertical slice" demo is probably the way to go on getting this some traction---various Alpha/Demo/etc projects tend to shoot for that as it tends to work well. Plenty is incomplete on the lot of them, but the taste is there to allow folks to start connecting the dots.
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Saying you need NPC interaction fully complete before you have basic gameplay is kind of like saying you need to have picked the color of your tablecloth before you start laying bricks for the foundation of your house. How will you know what's fun and interesting without trying some actual gameplay?
Unless you are totally unaware of what I mean by NPC interaction. How would you describe NPC interaction in a roguelike game? What comes to your mind? I'm pretty sure you will fail to describe how NPC interactions will unfold in my game and for anyone to understand how it will it must be implemented first. From every roguelike game I've played so far, the NPC interaction felt incredible superficial.
But what If I need help to implement such feature? This means I will have to describe it through text or on a live chat, which is basically what I i did with the whole project since the very opening post.
If you go to a clothes store, they put clothes on mannequins. This is to give you an idea how it might be put together into a specific outfit. It makes you want to get involved with the "project" of making an outfit with their building blocks.
That example just come to favor my reasoning, the mannequin is exhibiting the FULL product and not a portion of it, which is something expected in order to capture the attention of people.
The fact that you mention "user" instead of player makes it sound like you really believe you're building a productivity application, or a library.
Pay no attention whatsoever whenever I use "user" as a reference to the player. That's something unconscious I do due to the nature of my daily professional work.
Believe me, I fully understand your argument and I honestly thank you for sharing it with me, it shows consideration which is most welcome. But from these last days, from all opinions I gathered so far from multiple sources, I can conclude that I will only capture the attention of people when my game's complexity is revealed trough a considerable stage of developing, with or without demo but only when everything will be mildly implemented.
In sum, If I'm to create a demo, I will have to implement pretty much everything because it relies mostly on text and formulas. No point building the car's chassis if there will be no engine to propelled it.
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Yeah, going with a "vertical slice" demo is probably the way to go on getting this some traction---various Alpha/Demo/etc projects tend to shoot for that as it tends to work well. Plenty is incomplete on the lot of them, but the taste is there to allow folks to start connecting the dots.
I have no doubt about it.
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Anyway, sorry for attacking you like that, it's not my business ::)
Don't worry, any kind of human manifestation will prove useful in the end, even if it just lets know someone else better. In this case, your comment led me to post some new pics ;)
Maybe I did miss the point, but I'm judging based on how often I use pathfinding myself. Not only for AI, but for terrain generation. It's such a basic building block for games, and rather easy to code.
The algorithm I came with for terrain generation uses no path finding, it just uses main seeds that sprouts child seeds for a while with a certain amount of life. They travel in the map completely randomly and each time a seed overlaps the path already taken by another seed its height increases. They start deep within the ocean rising up as a volcano would. The draw back of this method is that each render takes about 30 seconds. Though the maps are not realistic, they do exactly what I need.
Some new examples:
(http://i.imgur.com/9mYRV5B.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/96PHDg5.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/kwvMqx3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/1mgKVzJ.png)
For the second shot I set the temperature to be polar like.
I still need to create rivers though. :P I haven't really though on how to do it but I guess it involves selecting high points of land and then choosing the lowest height in vicinity until reaching 0 height (or sea).
Any advice on this? I guess this is completely off topic.