Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Announcements => Other Announcements => Topic started by: Darren Grey on November 28, 2012, 11:23:59 AM
-
Last year there was some controversy over what was in the Roguelike of the Year poll, and some games that didn't make the list. This year the whole picture is much muddier, as can be seen from this list:
http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/a-list-of-games-that-is-intended-to.html
It would be helpful if we could all tell Andrew what games on there shouldn't make it on the poll or which shouldn't, and reasons why. It would also be helpful to check the RogueBasin release feed for games which might be missing.
-
My own thoughts:
Obvious Yes
7DRL
Crossword Dungeon
Epilogue
FTL
HyperRogue III
Mercury
WazHack
Super Office Stress
Spelunky HTML 5
Spelunky XBLA (both should just be down as Spelunky)
Delver
No
Auro - no public release
Cargo Commander - no permadeath is a bit of a biggie
Unknown
99 Levels to Hell
Claustrophobia: The Downward Struggle
Dary's Legend
Dungeon Dashers
Flight of the Maxima
Fog and Thunder
Gnoblins
GUTS!
Hallowmorn Dungeon
House of the Lost
Legend of Dungeon
Minicraft 2
Mysterious Castle
NEO Scavenger
Probability 0
Project gnh20/The game of my dream (sb3dgraph)
Receiver
Second Wind
Steam Marines
Stella-111: A Cosmic Voyage
Sword of the Stars: The Pit
The Crystal Catacombs
Teleglitch
The Wizard's Lair
Tower Climb
Zombocalypse
Others
Dungeons of Dredmor should be added for its expansion and updates.
-
It's worthwhile noting that everything that is listed as a release on Rogue Basin and/or Actively Developed Roguelikes on or after December 14, 2011 automatically qualifies.
This list is 'stuff I've found elsewhere'... I've not cross checked it against Rogue Basin or the List to check for duplicates.
Edit: And regards Spelunky appearing twice, these are two different games, by two different developers. If I combine this into one entry, I'd have to start combining Angband variants.
Edit 2: Dungeons of Dredmor and Binding of Isaac are both going to qualify again this year. I'd be interested in whether Desktop Dungeons should though.
-
Oh man....how much time do we have to get this sorted? I can already tell you offhand that a great many more things are viable to be counted than not off the top of my head, since I keep especially close tabs on the lot of it all around here.
-
I knew you would, getter ;) Andrew normally puts the poll up mid-December.
-
IMO RogueBasin should cover every notable roguelike and roguelike-like. If anyone sees a notable game (or simply their own game) which is not on RogueBasin: please add it! As side benefits, this will automatically add the game to IRLDb (http://roguetemple.com/irldb/), eliminate all controversy regarding ROTY inclusion, and make it more visible.
For example, FTL definitely should be added to RogueBasin.
Then, ROTY should use RogueBasin and ADR as a source of information, as usual.
I am not sure about Spelunky HTML5... just a port IMO.
Why is HyperRogue III controversial? It appears (http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Hyperbolic_Rogue) on RogueBasin (although the page is named "Hyperbolic Rogue"), and on ADR (although with some errors).
Edit: are you looking at the RogueBasin news, or add all games on RogueBasin with a recent update (http://roguetemple.com/irldb/index.php?i=5451b8&s=7.7.)? (I am for the second option, although there is some wrong data there)
-
I've just seen my game(The Wizard's Lair) on your list, and had a couple questions:
First off, what's ADR? I see it mentioned but couldn't figure out what it meant..
Secondly, how often does IRLDb scan RogueBasin for entries? I didn't see my game there and was wondering if that was important or not.
-
Mid-Dec eh? Doubt I'd get to the grand trawling within the next couple days, but I will try to weigh in somewhere in early Dec as the list on the ASCII Dreams page hopefully continues to update itself.
-
ADR is Actively Developing Roguelikes (http://thelist.roguelikedevelopment.org/).
IRLDb updates daily. It looks for pages which use the "game-..." template. The Wizard's Lair (and some other roguelikes) uses the "gameinfo" template, which is not recognized by IRLDb. I will see if I can fix that...
-
No roguelikes were released this year, but next year can be a different story. But don't trust me.
-
Heh, even the newcomer Rogue's Tale Krice? ;) It even measures itself on the Berlin definition directly~
-
I'm against any game that plays in real-time to be included (spelunky, tower climb, etc), since they do not qualify as roguelikes in my opinion. Great games, just not at all roguelikes. Of course, I understand most people disagree with me on that :P
-
Darn, my next game is real time :P
-
I'm against any game that plays in real-time to be included (spelunky, tower climb, etc), since they do not qualify as roguelikes in my opinion. Great games, just not at all roguelikes. Of course, I understand most people disagree with me on that :P
I don't disagree ;p
-
I wouldn't disagree either. But I would include real-time games with a friendly pause button that doesn't hinder interaction with the game - like smoothrogue from this year's 7drl. And a lot of strategy games.
-
Heh, even the newcomer Rogue's Tale Krice? ;) It even measures itself on the Berlin definition directly~
It's released next year I guess. But I have to say that it looks quite neat. However it's commercial which I hate in roguelike games.
-
Some further commentary:
The list I've put together comes from a search of freeindiegam.es, Rock Paper Shotgun and indiegames.com for the word roguelike in articles in the last 12 months and picking anything that was roguelike, roguelike + x, or roguelike mechanics but not loosely based on roguelikes; plus the Steam Greenlight roguelike and roguelike-likes list (with a couple of exceptions e.g. Project Zomboid), plus items I had starred on my RSS feeds or written about the blog throughout the year on new roguelikes. I've excluded stuff which I know will be in e.g. Binding of Isaac, or which is a 7DRL, e.g. Zaga 33, which will also be included.
The criteria for inclusion has historically been the Actively Developing Roguelikes list plus the games featured in the News section of Rogue Basin. If someone can put together a list from December 14 last year of games releases from the IRDB in alphabetical order, that would be of immense help.
I'm not terribly interested in the discussion of whether a game is a roguelike or roguelike-like: as far as I'm concerned a game is a roguelike if it gets at least 1 vote in the Ascii Dreams Roguelike of the Year poll. However, I'm much more interested in the question of when a game is released: as far as I'm concerned, it is when something playable is available (so alphas and demos are in), but I'm not sure whether an invite only or Kickstarter contributor release counts.
There's also the fact I've just found out about the eroRL subgenre, and I'm really hesitant about including anything from that. I'm going to avoid doing much research about 'release' dates and pretend that means they're disqualified on that basis.
-
Andrew, I'm following your blog for some years now leading me to this list eventually. My game is on this list as unknown (roguelike or not).
I consider my game as roguelike-like,though I could be alone on this ;-)
Pro:
Well, for one permadeath is a fix part of it, once you lost, you need to restart again and you have randomized dungeons.
Con:
It is realtime, making it even harder, because you don't have as much time to plan your next move as in a turn based game.
It is 3d (first person).
I've been mostly inspired by early graphical adaption of roguelike(-like) games like dungeon master or even to some degree ultima underworld (and dungeon keeper). But
the most notable feature of roguelikes are more a gameplay feeling, not exactly the visuals or controls. Therefor the harsh difficulty (permadeath) is one of the most
notable features in my opinion. Additional the high degree of freedom and the often deep gameplay.
I've a relative open development process, the development follow not a timeline or strict goal, every feature is open for discussion and it will evolve over time (btw. everyone can join the closed alpha).
So, what defines a roguelike ?
Btw. the game I'm talking about is gnoblins.
-
There's also the fact I've just found out about the eroRL subgenre, and I'm really hesitant about including anything from that.
Don't be boring. I think it's an interesting theme for a roguelike.
-
There's also the fact I've just found out about the eroRL subgenre, and I'm really hesitant about including anything from that.
Don't be boring. I think it's an interesting theme for a roguelike.
I'm not being boring. I just can't see how a game simple enough to play one handed could be a roguelike.
-
Almost all of my own roguelikes are designed so you can play them with one hand if you want, and there's plenty you can play with mouse alone. A low command set is a good design feature in my opinion!
I have yet to check out what EroRL properly is because I'm at work :/
Non-public releases definitely shouldn't be included in my opinion. For a start because there's no way you can know about them all, but also because clearly the developer doesn't want public attention on that build yet.
-
There's also the fact I've just found out about the eroRL subgenre, and I'm really hesitant about including anything from that.
Don't be boring. I think it's an interesting theme for a roguelike.
I'm not being boring. I just can't see how a game simple enough to play one handed could be a roguelike.
Sounds like you have no imagination. Epilogue was designed to play with only the left hand, with limited importance of the mouse/right hand. Only a terrible interface would require typing with two hands...
-
You aren't including any of the erotic roguelikes? Why is that? It's your list, but I ask you to reconsider. Is it fear or discomfort driving you, or a real logical reason? Is there a difference? Really?
I find questions about this sort of thing very interesting to ponder. This genre is often about a hack and slash genocide of different races of creatures, yet we pause at sex. Of course any 'game' that includes rape or pedophilia is right out.
On another topic, if you are worried about missing something then post the list early. Before the poll goes live. Then announce the poll in the usual places in the usual way asking for additions. When the poll goes live the poll is final. Any stragglers are shit out of luck and should be told so, because at that point I'd say you've done exactly what you needed to do to create a good poll.
If someone truly wanted their game included, if they truly wanted the attention, they'd make sure their game was in there. Or the fans would. I for one plan to make goddamn sure Cardlike - Quest for the Goat Horn and Sun Crusher!!! are included despite their dubious claims to roguelikeness.
Sorry if that sounded a bit ranty...kiss and hugs. ::)
-
How about Cardlike 2.0, released in spring but only on Roguetemple.
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2342.msg18785#msg18785
Talk about a limited release. Plus the added issue of it being a tabletop game.
If need be I could make a roguebasin page, update the upload and advertise it on the various forums and such. I could make a homepage/blog for it. That would fix the limited release nature.
As for the tabletop nature of the game, are we letting non-digital games in this year? I may have snuck under the wire a bit when I released the first cardlike as a 7DRL. It's inclusion in 2011 does not necessarily mean we are accepting tabletop submissions in general.
I say this: When in doubt, include it. Keep the genre open and experimental. You don't have to scan boardgamegeek looking for dungeon crawlers, but if someone releases a table game meant for the roguelike community. I say let it in.
Also Legend did a tabletop game as part of this year's 7DRL. It should be included even if mine is not.
-
Fog and Thunder: Played it (pretty nice). I'd say it's a roguelike, at least if you include eg. MicRogue and certain 7DRLs,.
EroRLs: +1 to what Jo and Krice said. If you're talking about stuff like Noxico and Seduction Quest, there really should be no question about whether to allow them in the poll. Isn't it just like: "You're the @ next to the B, but really a batwinged pony having sex with a half-naga bellydancer"?
As always,
Minotauros
-
You aren't including any of the erotic roguelikes? Why is that? It's your list, but I ask you to reconsider. Is it fear or discomfort driving you, or a real logical reason? Is there a difference? Really?
This was not aimed at me, but I did the very same thing for Actively Developing Roguelikes list so I might as well give my answer. Noxico was left out intentionally.
The thing is simple, really. I regard erotic games as genre of its own. Erotic roguelike would be aimed much more at providing player with some kind of sexual adventures than providing tactical challenges. So far, Noxico development goals confirm this. Thus, it is much more an adult game than a roguelike. Sex in games does not cause me discomfort. But to remain truly roguelike, it must be a tactical element like foocubi in SLASH'EM (where you even have celibate conduct tracked) or greys in ZapM.
Heck, I am one of the developers of PRIME. There we have aliens using anal probes on you of all the things. Internally, the probes deal violating "damage" type. You get sore butt timed intrinsic and penalty to speed because you need to walk bow-legged for awhile. If that is not including blatant sex references I don't know what is.
Our to-do list includes conduct too. Not getting probed by reticulans (or probing yourself for whatever reason) is planned to net you virginity conduct worth some additional points upon ascension.
-
Erotic roguelike would be aimed much more at providing player with some kind of sexual adventures than providing tactical challenges. So far, Noxico development goals confirm this.
One of the development goals is to have hostile characters switch between long and short range weapons. I monologued about it on #rgrd a good while back, at length. My point being that the balance is not shifted that far towards the sexy side.
One other goal, being playable with one hand, isn't that high a priority, and I want to do that to make the controls nice and easy, compared to Nethack for example. The other reason is... a bonus.
...and even then, the keys are user-defined.
-
Since a game is a roguelike provided that someone votes for it, I submit that we include www.pornhub.com as a candidate for best roguelike of the year.
Features:
1. Permadeath (once you're gone, you're gone - at least this is true for 96% of pornhub viewers)
2. Procedurally generated content (suggested videos)
3. Boobs
-
The thing is simple, really. I regard erotic games as genre of its own.
Well, so what? There are other genres included in roguelike family, even real time platformer games. It's funny how a game with some erotic content suddenly becomes something else than a game. Even Nethack has erotic content if you ask from a person who thinks anything related to sex is satanic.
-
Almost all of my own roguelikes are designed so you can play them with one hand if you want, and there's plenty you can play with mouse alone.
Sounds like you have no imagination. Epilogue was designed to play with only the left hand, with limited importance of the mouse/right hand. Only a terrible interface would require typing with two hands...
You might want to recalibrate your sense-of-humour-tron.
I'm hesitant because erotica is usually handled badly in computer games. The major of games are about conflict, and conflict and erotica together have a nasty tendency to conflate into representations of sexual violence which is something I don't wish to condone - which could be the misinterpretation if I put a game featuring this in a GotY poll.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to do the research to determine if its the case for any of the games discussed here. So I have to go on second hand advice, which based on the original discussion on the Something Awful forums doesn't look like I'll be including any of the games mentioned here.
-
I'm confused as to what difference it makes. Let the people decide by either clicking or not clicking, and add <NSFW> tags if you want to make sure people don't investigate a game they've never heard of and get more than they bargained for. I haven't played any of the games in question, so I can't comment specifically, but if anyone vouches for any of them then I think they ought to be on the list. It's your list though...
-
There should be no confusion.
He doesn't want any disgusting rape shit in his poll.
-
I think it's curious how no one questions things like murder and genocide being the premise of all these games but any sexual content at all immediately brings up questions and opposition :P
-
Ultimately, this is one of those cases that comes down to the Gestalt of the thing. If Sex in a Roguelike is to gain acceptance along more risque lines, it has to likely be paired with strong gameplay that isn't subservient to it as opposed to just another well integrated system/element----something that has yet to be visibly accomplished in the mainstream industry as well as it so happens outside the laughable Bioware takes on it of late. While it is illogical in the grand scheme of things that Sex has a bit of a hoop to jump through versus violence, racism, etc in the game context---that's just how things have happened to play out with society on the whole.....has to be duly reckoned through much as it was in film and print in times past and they still have to reckon it thusly.
-
I think it's curious how no one questions things like murder and genocide being the premise of all these games but any sexual content at all immediately brings up questions and opposition :P
Emphasis added is mine. If you were to replace the expression in bold with 'explicit and violent sexual content' I would be inclined to agree.
Plus, premise of most roguelike games is conflict, not murder or genocide. The latter two carry nontrivial penalties in quite a few games. Titles that feature only things that want to kill you excepted.
-
We're getting quite sidetracked by this point. Can we get back to helping Andrew with the rest of the list?
-
Is Through on the list? It's got an interesting take on wands. Definitely a roguelike ;) It was originally released in 2010, but the most recent update is October 2012.
http://www.indiedb.com/games/through
-
Doesn't have a RogueBasin page, so good shout.
-
Is Through on the list?
Yes. With latest release on October 20th it qualifies.
-
We're getting quite sidetracked by this point. Can we get back to helping Andrew with the rest of the list?
Good idea.
Flatspace had a release in Feb. Not sure it's claiming itself to be rogue inspired, more likely elite, but I would like to see it included. I'd vote for it.
It has no Roguebasin entry. I think this problem will continue as people tend to concentrate on forums and having their own website. You know?
http://www.lostinflatspace.com/
-
This might be another resource for finding games:
http://www.indiedb.com/games?filter=t&kw=Search+...&released=1&style=44&theme=&indie=&type=1
It's a search on indiedb for games classified as single-player roguelikes that have been released (conveniently listed in order of most recent release). Someone will have to vouch for their roguelikeyness though (*cough* perhaps getter ;)).
Some are definitely not, like FTL and 99 levels to hell (which is a platform shmup if I remember correctly :P)
-
FTL is totally my roguelike of the year :P
-
99 Levels to Hell would count by my reckoning, also the dev generally listing it as such on there---just a different take on things ala Red Rogue and others. That list looks to be handy though, some I'd lost track of after their initial Greenlight bid out from nowhere and all.
-
Here's a bigger list:
91
3079
@Star Wars
100 Heroes
2419RL
7DRL
99 Levels to Hell
ADOM
ADOM II (formerly JADE)
Afterlife 3: Legends of Rickard Bronson
AliensRL
Allure of the Stars
Angband
Animonstres
AppRogue
Ascension of the Drillworms
Ascii Wilderness
AS.T.Ro
AsylumRL
Auro
Bardess
BattlePaths
Beyond the Light
BileBio
Bone Builder
Borderlands 2
BOSS
Brogue
Bushudo
Cardinal Quest II
Cardlike
Cargo Commander
Castle Dungeon
Castle of the Winds Online
Cataclysm
Cave Chop
Cave Rescue
Caves of Qud
Chengband
Cinders
Claustrophobia: The Downward Struggle
Cogmind
Como el Rogue
Cooplike
Cosmic Commando
Crossword Dungeon
Crystal Catacombs
Cult: Awakening of the Old Ones
Cursed Dungeons
Cypress Tree Manor
DaedlyFlazh
DaJAngband
Dangerous Dungeons of Sevenholm
Dark Valhalla: Prelude
Dary's Legend
Das Schurke Boot
Daybreak RL
Dead Night Forest Chapter 2: The Lost Caravan
Death Settler
Deep Deadly Dungeons
Delver
Demonhunt
Denizen's Den
Depths of Peril
Desktop Dungeons
Destiny of Heroes
Diablo 3
Diehard Dungeon
Diggr
Din's Curse
DoomRL: Doom, the Roguelike
Dungeons of Desolation
Drakefire Chasm
Drox Operative
DuneRL
Dungeon Bash Tactics
Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup
Dungeon Dashers
Dungeons of Dredmor
Dwarf Fortress
Dweller
Earl Spork
ElonaPlus
Emet
Encircled
Enter Thy Name
Epilogue
Equal in Death
Escape from the Vault
Expedition
FAangband
Fabula Divina
Fall From Heaven
Fame
FFHtR
Fictional Roguelike
Flatspace
Flight of the Maxima
Fog and Thunder
Forays into Norrendrin
Fragile Wrath
FTL
Fuel
GatewayRL
GearHead-2
Gnoblins
Grand Rogue Auto
GUTS!
Hack, Slash, Loot
Hallowmorn Dungeon
Halls of Mist
Harmonia
Hellmouth
Herculeum
Hokuto-no-rogue
Hope
HordeTheory
House of the Lost
HunterRL
Hydra Slayer
Hyperbolic Rogue
Hyperbolic Rogue II
HyperRogue III
I rule, you rule, we all rule old-school Hyrule
Ighalsk
Ignite
Inferno+
Infiniverse
Infra Arcana
Intelligence: The Roguelike
Interhack
Into the Dungeon ++
JaggedRL
Jelly
Kaiju King
Kerkerkruip
Kitchen Masters
LAIR!
LambdaHack
LambdaRogue
Left Field Hotel
Legacy
Legend of Dungeon
Legend of Siegfried
Legends of Yore
Life of Sir Pointsalot
LinLem’s Vague Adventure Roguelike
Locks
Lost Labyrinth
MagmaHack
Magog
Malastro
Me Against The Mutants
Meat Arena
Mercury
Microcosm
Middlecrest
Minicraft 2
miniFlake
Mont Asall
Mujahid
Mushroomvania
Mutant Aliens!
Mysterious Castle
NEO Scavenger
Neon
NetHack-De
Nightfall
NitroHack
NLarn
Noxico
NPPAngband
OutlastRL
PabloQuest 3: Danish Adventures
Path of Exile
phage
Pineapple Smash Crew
Pixel Dungeon
Porta Lucis
Portralis - NewAngband
POWDER
PRIME
Probability 0
Professional Sword Tester the Roguelike
Project gnh20/The game of my dream (sb3dgraph)
Prospector RL
PWMAngband
QUAD
Quest for the Unicorn
QuestQuest
Quickband
QuickHack
QuillRogue
RailRL
Random Realms
Ransack
Receiver
Red Rogue
Revenge on a Toy Factory
Rings of Valor
ROADLIKE
RoboCaptain
Rogue Mud
Rogue Survivor
Rogue's Souls
Rogue's Tale
RogueDungeons
RRRSRoguelike
Ruins of Kal Raman
SCP: Site 17
Second Wind
Seduction Quest
Serial Killer
Shadow Rogue
Shattered Haven
Shepherd Slaughter
Sick Peter
Sil
Smooth Rogue
Solstice
SpaceNodes
Spelunky HTML 5
Spelunky XBLA
Squirm
Steam Marines
Steel Knights
Stella-111: A Cosmic Voyage
Stellar Edge
SUN CRUSHER!!!
Super Office Stress
Super Shotgun Showdown
Swamp Monster
Sword in Hand
Sword of the Stars: The Pit
Tales of Maj'Eyal (ToME)
Teleglitch
Telos
The Adventurer's Guild
The Binding of Isaac
The Challenge!
The Death of Juga t'Dy
The Four Challenges
The Liberate Pixil Cup Quest
The Light of Amber
The Serpentine Caves
The Slimy Lichmummy
The Well Of Enchantments
The Wizard's Lair
Through
TomeNET
Top Dog
Torchlight 2
Tower Climb
Traction Edge
TrapRL
Triangle Wizard
Turambar
Turnament
Ugly Rogue
Ultima Ratio Regum
UnBrogue
Underhill 2
UnNetHack
UnReal World
Untitled
Vapors of Insanity
Voxel Heroes
Voyage to Farland
Waaaghammer
Warden
Wayward
WazHack
WebRaidMobile
Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space
World of Tey
Wyrm
X@COM
Yeekband
YioRpg
Zaga-33
Zero-Player Game
Zombies!
Zombocalypse
Zone
-
Looks good to me. Though is it worth clarifying that it's Dwarf Fortress: Adventure Mode and Diablo 3: Hardcore Mode?
-
Also, you know what might be nice - force people to choose at least 3 entries. That'll stop some of the silly focus from fans of only a single game. To vote you need perspective on more than just your favourite title.
-
You would have to go in and make extra remarks for every game that is missing features or has different modes. I mean are you going to specify for DoD that it doesn't include the non-permadeath difficulty? Sounds silly to me :P
For voting, people would just randomly pick 2 extra games if you had to pick three and they only knew one. I think that would defeat the purpose.
-
You would have to go in and make extra remarks for every game that is missing features or has different modes. I mean are you going to specify for DoD that it doesn't include the non-permadeath difficulty? Sounds silly to me :P
Well in the case of DF and Diablo the roguelike-y mode is not the main mode played, whilst Peramdeath mode in DoD is much more popular. Otherwise I'd say Diablo 3 shouldn't be on there, as the roguelike side of it is just a sideshow compared to the main game.
For voting, people would just randomly pick 2 extra games if you had to pick three and they only knew one. I think that would defeat the purpose.
Perhaps, but it might force people to think more about the purpose of the poll and consider what other roguelikes there are that they might enjoy. It would also make it harder for people to spam loads of votes using the cookie-deleting method. wouldn't be impossible of course, but it would be a bit of discouragement.
-
Begin Rant -
Goddamn I h8 Diablo III. Ramping the difficulty to absurd levels in order to sell gear on the AH. Drop rates so low, and most things not even being usable by your character, forcing you to the $$$$ auction house. Playing roguelike mode solo and having my character die to lag...LAG...in a single player game...screw you blizzard.
End Rant
I figure it should be included in the poll. I'll not be voting for it. It's not just a terrible roguelike, it's also a terrible game. I don't think we really need to make qualifying remarks either, but it if we are worried (we should be) that the Diablo III fan base might get wind of the poll and vote it through the roof, perhaps a qualifier would mitigate that.
I may be biased. I know I am. What ever you do to make DiabloIII do poorly will be alright with me. :P
-
"Hyperbolic Rogue" should not be there, as it was written in Nov 2011 and newer versions appear on the list with other names. Including both HR2 and HR3 means that we are including both the 7DRL version and the current version, I am not sure whether this makes sense.
And Diablo 3 should be.
-
Should be what?
-
Should be included in the poll. Removing a game that would probably get many honest votes because somebody does not like it is cheating IMO.
-
Let's include Call of Duty, too. It's a roguelike after all.
-
Begin Rant -
Goddamn I h8 Diablo III. Ramping the difficulty to absurd levels in order to sell gear on the AH. Drop rates so low, and most things not even being usable by your character, forcing you to the $$$$ auction house. Playing roguelike mode solo and having my character die to lag...LAG...in a single player game...screw you blizzard.
End Rant
I figure it should be included in the poll. I'll not be voting for it. It's not just a terrible roguelike, it's also a terrible game. I don't think we really need to make qualifying remarks either, but it if we are worried (we should be) that the Diablo III fan base might get wind of the poll and vote it through the roof, perhaps a qualifier would mitigate that.
I may be biased. I know I am. What ever you do to make DiabloIII do poorly will be alright with me. :P
I also hated Diablo III, and for the same reasons.
-
You have 2 options. You can man up and remove diablo 3 from the poll for not being a roguelike, or you can man up and put it in the poll as a roguelike and accept the consequences for your actions.
-
Have two categories of award?
Traditional vs. More-In-Common-With-Other-Genres-Than-Classic-Roguelike-Genre?
For example, Diablo 3 would be in the latter being more similar to (and in reality definitive of) ARPG.
FTL you can argue about.
Lowers the impact of "THIS WAS THE ROGUELIKE OF THE YEAR!" but... Diablo 3? Really? Just cause it has a checkbox for permadeath...?
-
Well, DIII's architecture/layout is no longer procedurally generated. There may be some chunks here an there, hard to tell. Enemy placement is random.
-
And here I was thinking people were going to complain about me including Borderlands 2.
Darren: Dwarf Fortress won the first year without me 'clarifying' that it was adventure mode. I'm not going to be that specific. Besides which, any game can be permadeath if you play with an honour system (see e.g. Far Cry 2).
-
Hah, didn't see Borderlands 2. Clearly we're not doing our job of checking out this list thoroughly...
Lots of games have permadeath for arcade reasons, or multiplayer reasons. Diablo has it because it's descended from roguelikes.
-
What is "7DRL"? I thought it was "The Challenge!" but there is a separate entry for it.
BTW I have not played Diablo III, so I do not know how roguelike it is, but I know that the previous two were roguelike enough.
-
I suppose one thing to consider is, would anyone be upset if Diablo III were excluded? Clearly there'll be plenty upset if it is.
On the other I know at least one very vocal person who would be upset if FTL were excluded.
-
If Diablo III would be excluded, you would have to exclude those games with even less roguelike elements, too.
Diablo III is more of a roguelike than FTL. ;)
-
I disagree very strongly!
-
I'm gonna have to agree. Either FTL and diablo 3 go in or neither.
-
"Hyperbolic Rogue" should not be there, as it was written in Nov 2011 and newer versions appear on the list with other names. Including both HR2 and HR3 means that we are including both the 7DRL version and the current version, I am not sure whether this makes sense.
The list has it filed under "Hyperbolic Rogue" but the entry points to HyperRogue III. I guess Andrew took it as independent game and just added it. On my side this is fixed for next update. Thanks!
-
Some additions:
Dungeon Panic!
Goblet Grotto
ZombiU
-
ZombiU
Is this Nintendo Wii U's ZombiU? What the hell? It's a roguelike?
-
The last giant list update seems to have lots near as I can tell from the lot of it, barring any final updates to come to it I'd reckon that is probably about squared away. Of course, it is often the case where one forgets one or more until they hit you after the fact, but only so much can be done and this is why it is important for the devs themselves to speak up. :)
-
Borderlands 2 should not qualify for the list in any way.
It doesn't have permadeath.
It doesn't have interesting tactical decisions.
It doesn't have random loot (more on this later).
It doesn't have random maps.
It doesn't have random enemies.
It isn't ASCII, Tile, Grid, 2D, 2.5D.
The only semi-roguelike thin it has is sorta intersting stat/class builds in a limited capacity.
Feel free to replace "random" with "procedurally generated" if you prefer.
About No Random Loot:
The best loot in the game is static. Certain quests or bosses drop it all. Quests drop it 100% of the time, Bosses about 5% of the time. There is no point to even picking up any loot that is not provided through static guaranteed methods.
Therefore: no random loot that matters (what is there is at best vendor junk)
Counterargument: Before you reach level 50 the first time you can find loot scattered about randomly that is useful.
Countercounterargument: You can find such loot, but in no way do you need to use it and if you haven't received better loot from static quests you're playing overleveled for your area, which means the loot you found to use still isn't useful.
Summary
Borderlands 2 is nowhere near to belonging on the list. Both Mass Effect 3 and Black Ops 2 have more roguelike features!
-
A countercounterargument is called a 'rebuttal'
;)
-
Eben, there is such a thing as jokes in the world.
-
Not on the interwebs Darren...you know this! :-*
-
A joke that it's on the list huh? Are there other titles on the list that aren't really there, but represent a joke?
I'm genuinely curious because I looked at the list and saw Borderlands 2 on it. Many people (wrongly) consider the Borderlands series to be a sort of FPS roguelike series. It's entirely consistent that someone who isn't entirely familiar with BL2 would include it in the list out of ignorance.
While I'm all for allowing stretches of the roguelike definition on there (Spelunky) and nearly completely not roguelike-at-all games inspired by roguelikes (Diable III, Binding of Isaac), if BL2 was actually on the list it would mean every RPG or game with stats/classes/character options should be included.
Sorry if I don't get the joke.
-
You have to include a ;) if you are making a joke on the internet.
-
;)
-
Poll is up.
-
A link for convenience: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/request-for-votes-ascii-dreams.html
-
Also, this can apparently happen:
414. That’s an error.
The requested URL /reviews/polls/placeVote/-4327327964300472371/blogger_template/64b83da02ca189b9... is too large to process. That’s all we know.
-
Poll is up.
I see both Fame and Untitled listed. Aren't they one and the same game, though?
As always,
Minotauros
-
Also, this can apparently happen:
414. That’s an error.
The requested URL /reviews/polls/placeVote/-4327327964300472371/blogger_template/64b83da02ca189b9... is too large to process. That’s all we know.
That happens if you select too many roguelikes. You can consider this a design bug on how those polls are implemented.
-
I think I've been the one to trigger this problem these past few years without fail. 8) I guess I could try to vote again later, but without knowing the hard cap it is too weighty a choice to slim it further.
Also, drama is now afoot in terms of ToME4 and the poll----kind of a strange situation, but perhaps indicative of:
1. The bar being raised
2. Semi-commercial backdrop activities(which are Positive, take that history of abject failure in Western markets!) are moreso a thing for many Roguelikes thanks to Greenlight and/or KS, so there is a greater drive towards any accolades that could be cited to the public at large to help make the case to stand out further from the wonderfully lively sea of Roguelikes----said sources for accolades are slim pickings indeed in a sort of Chicken/Egg situation though.
-
2. Semi-commercial backdrop activities(which are Positive, take that history of abject failure in Western markets!) are moreso a thing for many Roguelikes thanks to Greenlight and/or KS, so there is a greater drive towards any accolades that could be cited to the public at large to help make the case to stand out further from the wonderfully lively sea of Roguelikes----said sources for accolades are slim pickings indeed in a sort of Chicken/Egg situation though.
I don't know about RotY, but this might win an award for the longest sentence of getterese in existence ;)
-
I am a particular fan of the 4 dash punctuation. Fearless!
-
:P Why stop at 3 dashes when auto-correct stands against everything as it is?!
I hope the dark cloud can pass on this year's poll and everybody just come together to celebrate and speculate as per usual.
-
Well ADOM is crushing right now, so having a new winner would totally switch things up.
EDIT: Sun Crusher!!! with 5 votes. HAhA!!!! And Cardlike with only 2. Still, that's 7 votes for me and my 'games'. :-)
-
5 people voted for Microgue! I need to find these 5 people. I want to give it a good update after the new year and I would love to know why it got 5 votes.
-
Well ADOM is crushing right now, so having a new winner would totally switch things up.
Unbookmarked Ascii Dreams, uninstalled Firefox, formatted all my hard drives, EMP pulsed my house, napalmed my neighborhood and am now writing this post from outer space before I crash into the sun.
These polls are bad for my health, man.
-
5 people voted for Microgue! I need to find these 5 people. I want to give it a good update after the new year and I would love to know why it got 5 votes.
You shouldn't act so surprised, Microgue spawned quite a lot of discussion, didn't it? 8) I totally voted for Microgue, just for being cool, as well as bringing some fresh concepts to the genre. We're a lot of people curious as to where HunterRL is going, I think ::)
That said, it does feels good to see your creation get some votes. It can make you realize that some actual persons played your game, enjoying it to the point of voting for it in the poll. I remember the one year I did lug out some releases of my own Squirm, and it got three votes, I was completely stoked, having entertained the idea of getting even a single vote as a wild fantasy :D
As always,
Minotauros
-
Yeah its a great motivator. I really cant wait to get back to it. After I finish that, its right on to HunterRL (Although the name will probably be changed to Sons of Frost for the group you belong to) I really need to start working with people so I can get all these games done on time.
I have one comment about the poll. I almost wish their were two polls. Best Roguelike and best new Roguelike it seems like a lot of votes go to ADOM, Dwarf Fortress, TOME etc. and I wonder if you had a list of just the new stuff how different it would be. granted I guess the voting system would not actually change, since you can vote for multiple things so maybe seeing different "awards" at the end might be nice. (Highest Rated, Highested rated New, Always a brides-maid award.)
-
No worries Jason. I plan on making a post handing out 'trophies' to the various categories using the poll numbers. We did it last year, as well as a sort of quasi-academic analysis of the roguelike player (like what they value highly, what they don't).
Lemme find it...here are the category 'awards'. Sort of half assed, I'll do better this year.
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2016.15
Best New. Best 'small game'. Best 'monster game'. We'll see what I can come up with, probably do top 5's and top 3's for each category. I'll look at the end results and find some interesting groupings.
Here is the fan type analysis. Still a bit interesting. I think I will do something similar this year, but more along the lines of "how have we changed as a gaming community"...we'll see.
http://roguetemple.com/forums/index.php?topic=2053.0
-
Hmm, gonna have to go for Infra Arcana again, and Diggr.
-
5 people voted for Microgue! I need to find these 5 people. I want to give it a good update after the new year and I would love to know why it got 5 votes.
*raises hand* MicRogue is awesome. I don't get why it only has 5 votes! I try to shout about it whenever the opportunity arises (have you seen the Dogbomb video?)
Regarding only having new roguelikes, well... look at the poll as it stands. The winners would be FTL and Diablo III. Could you imagine the outcry? :P A new game award unfairly favours commercial games as these hold back on release till the game is complete and polished. It also discourages developers from the release early, release often philosophy, which is a bad thing. We've had far too many problems in the past with devs holding out on releasing because they wanted to wait till the game was perfect. I'm not sure that any developer with that philosophy has ever actually released his game in the end :/
-
5 people voted for Microgue! I need to find these 5 people. I want to give it a good update after the new year and I would love to know why it got 5 votes.
You're incredibly lucky that Notch hadn't release Minicraft 2 aka Minitales. Microgue wasn't on the list, no one picked up on it (except Darren who mentioned it briefly while we were recording ep 57), and I forgot to add it until I was down in the S's. It was either find something I could delete in the M's, or have to retype >50 entries to fit you in.
-
5 people voted for Microgue! I need to find these 5 people. I want to give it a good update after the new year and I would love to know why it got 5 votes.
*raises hand* MicRogue is awesome. I don't get why it only has 5 votes! I try to shout about it whenever the opportunity arises (have you seen the Dogbomb video?)
Personally, I didn't vote for it simply because it isn't a roguelike :|
-
Regarding only having new roguelikes, well... look at the poll as it stands. The winners would be FTL and Diablo III.
Hey! Sil has been ahead of Diablo III the whole time. :)
There would indeed be something odd about discouraging releases until polished, but I think this has some good elements as well as some bad. It is nicer to play polished games, and can help the community to release them. I think the benefit of earlier releases is mainly that they can increase the chance of later getting to a polished game, by giving feedback and perhaps motivation.