Temple of The Roguelike Forums
Development => Incubator => Topic started by: kraflab on June 27, 2012, 01:08:15 AM
-
1. What is Epilogue?
Epilogue is graphical roguelike with an easy-to-use interface that was designed completely irrespective of genre norms. Rather than having to remember which key brings up which interface element, nearly all information is on screen all the time. Rather than having to slog through 5 floors of the same rats and orcs that all the other games have, every floor has a unique set of enemies and loot. Each level is short, and the difficulty ramps up quite quickly. Rather than grinding for the lucky rare weapon, every enemy is equipped like the player and leaves their equipment behind upon death. In the end, the only way to survive is via strategic use of items and abilities, which come in short supply. Are you up for the challenge?
2. Goals
I think the feedback I set out to gather when I began this thread has already been gathered. Feedback on recent additions to the game, such as the stat affinity system is welcome, as is feedback in general. However, I'm not sure what the goals are moving forward, except perhaps to think of a new goal. The game is for most intents and purposes in a finished state.
Home Page (http://kraflab.com/blog/?page_id=16)
Desura (http://www.desura.com/games/epilogue)
Greenlight (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92915130)
-
Sounds cool - I'll give it a whirl soon.
I would perhaps suggest renaming them "Epilogue" and "Epilogue Expansion" or something like that though, to make it clear that the free version is a full game on its own. Or maybe "Epilogue: Encore" :)
-
File epilogue_linux_current.tar.gz is not in gzip format. The extension is a lie. After untarring main.mt and giving it execution flag (this should be done for me) and running the file I get only this:
Assertion 's' failed at pulse/simple.c:255, function pa_simple_free(). Aborting.
Przerwane
What is going on?
-
How is this related to the Incubator project? It does not seem to meet the "100% free & open" rules of the first bundle.
I assume that you are here just for mutual feedback, not for bundling (or maybe waiting for the commercial bundle). Is that right?
-
How is this related to the Incubator project? It does not seem to meet the "100% free & open" rules of the first bundle.
I assume that you are here just for mutual feedback, not for bundling (or maybe waiting for the commercial bundle). Is that right?
Yes, I am not part of the bundle. I think this should more aptly be in a directory like "late development feedback", but the incubator is the only option currently. I would certainly be interested in a commercial bundle, but I personally don't have the knowhow to accomplish that.
Ancient: Apologies, it should be fixed now. I think I zipped into the wrong format due to a typo, but it should be gzipped now. Thanks for letting me know.
-
I found what causes that assertion crash. One has to install pulseaudio drivers. I wish the program would say that directly. Figuring this out took some searching effort. Then I needed to fiddle with configuration for this thing. Anyway I got to play it for some time.
- First, how do I save the game?
- There is a typo in blob city introduction. It says you are going [c]loser to the Slith. The 'c' is missing.
- Deities are mostly boring and feel very mechanical. Joy, Agony and Connoisseurs gods are especially bad. No interaction possible whatsoever on your side. Kagh feels Xommy so that one at least tries to do something interesting. Entropy is fine too. He requires you to make substantial exchange for benefits and creates additional meaningful choice whenever you find a chest. Kagh also is positive one because he invites to wait out especially bad debuffs or hope for better buffs at the cost of fatigue so those two are good for gameplay. Domor is so-so because you kill anyway for experience. However, one sometimes decides to spare a monster or avoid it which under his patronage means less piety. That does occasionally contribute to gameplay. Also his curse changes things too.
- There is no way to know what kind of damage enemies do. Fighters deal psyhical and pure mages expectedly do magical and that is all one knows at first. However, those hook swords do light damage. This you do not know until you defeat one and see its weapons. Thus it is advantageous to note down creature class names and what damages they deal in what proportions to have a grasp of how dangerous certain creature may be.
- Sound when special item is generated in death drop is really good feature.
- The log could use some improvement. Some information (like deity descriptions) should start from new line to be more easily read. Information when you get additional turn due to quick trait is irritating spam.
- Revealing precise damage formula in help is very helpful. A formula is worth a hundred words of explanation. Percentages display for hitting is neat as well.
- First level can be generated in a very unfriendly way. With stealth below average you can be swarmed very quickly. Once first creature I met was a king. Then several other characters appeared without pause preventing me from praying for health. Three out of eleven starts ended this way. Monster placement early could use some tweaking.
- Alchemy system is most excellent! Scores highly on discovery fun and replayability. What you could improve is forbid same two combinations. Keep track of what was tested and tell the player "you have tried this combination already and discovered [nothing/new alchemical color]".
- Fatigue is nice implementation of classic roguelike clock. Much better than hunger.
- Possibility to disarm and use traps is fun but strict inventory limit prevents this from being practical.
- Keys on keyboard are arranged in highly illogical way. This makes it hard to learn. For some reason you do not support arrow keys. WASD is unusual for top down game but that can be lived with. The bad thing is you have commands clustered haphazardly around left side of keyboard. Z is for pick up first item from stack. Why not delegate it to F for instead? F for first fits. Move dialog based pick up to G (get things from ground) and so on. If you wish I can prepare a proposal for changing keys to use mnemonics.
- I like the randomly generated names.
- The achievements are there but appear to serve no real purpose. Having no knowledge upfront what kind of achievements are available getting them is a random event. When I got my first I was surprised. All the next were just distractions.
-
Ancient: Thanks for the detailed feedback :)
There is no way to save the game currently. I don't think it's long enough to warrant saving, so I felt it was better to not have the possibility of scumming available. If there is a lot of desire for it though I could see to implementing it.
Some of the deities are specifically non-interactive. I did this because sometimes you don't want to worry about it, in which case picking the gods that randomly heal you or hurt your enemies is a good choice. The death god because very powerful late in the game, which is the benefit from suffering his curse.
In terms of damage I tried to make it somewhat intuitive. The hookswords are wielded by living electrical cables, thus light. The blue mages deal water damage, etc. Certainly though it is not perfect.
I agree the log could use some improvement in general, although it is significantly better than it was ;)
In terms of the first level being generated in an unfriendly way is just a new player distress I think. If you feel you are in trouble run away immediately. It does occasionally feel like I get swarmed when I start, but I usually survive because I know how to deal with it.
Traps I think are more useful if you take the trait where you have more inventory space, or if you are in a situation to pick it up and immediately place it somewhere.
The keys are based around WASD, so all the keys are meant to be accessed by your left hand. I understand this is perhaps odd in the roguelike seen, but it is incredibly convenient once you are used to it. Arrow keys are used to scroll the log if you don't have access to the mouse, which is why they are not movement. To me it is so easy to tap Z with my finger while my hand is on WASD, etc, so it is not as haphazard as it may seem.
Yes, the achievements serve no real purpose. They are more or less just a record of how far you've gotten and which endings you've discovered, although there are a few for other objectives. If you go to the achievement page it does give you a little hint about what types of achievements there are. Some are clear, like ?BOSS?. These are meant to at least let you know that you are missing endings and bosses.
Thanks again for the feedback, and I'm glad you like the alchemy system, I am quite proud of how it turned out :)
-
You can save scum without a save system in game. Dump whole process image to disk and restore later. Process image is of course a file that can be copied but this is not even necessary. You can pass a parameter instead that will not delete the file.
The reason I would like a save function is to suspend a game when I need to turn computer off and do something else. Epilogue being a game is far lower priority so I will quit even advanced characters without regret. On my box saving process image is available but not when I am playing on some other machine.
I managed to survive another gang up on first level so it certainly is the matter of my (in)experience in Epilogue.
Yes, the keys can be learned but almost any layout can be. Getting used to Epilogue's key map takes longer than learning what keys do what in NetHack which is alarming signal. Yes, it is that bad. Z is easy to tap, but so is F. You could rearrange bindings to be close to WASD but use mnemonics. C for interaCt can be remembered but Q for pray/vandalize chest hardly makes sense. However, Epilogue is far developed game and change of bindings (even for significantly better) may upset the players.
As for achievements maybe make them unlock some funny picture and witty text accessible from achievements screen. That would serve as a nice reward.
Right now game marks altars as interesting places on map. The problem is these are assigned the same color as chests. After you pick a god altars except Minuet are no longer interesting. If you picked the god of Covenants no altars are worthy spots to be placed on map. Either distinguish chests from altars or remove altars from map after picking a deity.
Minuet is referred as deity of Genesis but not always. When you are hunted and refused healing Minuet is suddenly deity of light. Inconsistency or I have misread introduction to gods?
-
Ancient:
I agree there are nice things I could do with achievements, but I am not an artist so it's easier said than done in that respect. Perhaps I could have them unlock bits of lore. Hmm...
With respect to the keys, I hardly think you can compare this to nethack. Minimally you only need WASD since everything else can be handed by the mouse. ZQXE pretty much covers everything else that you'll want with any frequency. My mom doesn't play pc games at all and didn't know what WASD meant but she was able to pick up the keyboard controls pretty easily, so maybe you are just a bit stuck in your ways ;) How about Q for 'Q'uery the gods? :P
As far as points on the map, the code is actually just displaying any tile that has a landmark on it, which includes chests, doors, altars, etc. I could clear out the altars, but if you are unsure if you have missed a chest, just tap the autoexplore button, since it will path to chests that you have seen as well. I agree though the map needs some work.
As far as the gods, they are just like any group of deities and different things can be ascribed to them. It's like poseidon being the god of the sea but also of earthquakes and horses. Minuet is the deity of genesis, which could very well include light, music, etc.
-
With respect to the keys, I hardly think you can compare this to nethack. Minimally you only need WASD since everything else can be handed by the mouse.
Yes, stuff can be done by mouse. This is meager excuse for not improving keyboard interface.
ZQXE pretty much covers everything else that you'll want with any frequency. My mom doesn't play pc games at all and didn't know what WASD meant but she was able to pick up the keyboard controls pretty easily, so maybe you are just a bit stuck in your ways ;)
Quite possible. :-) OTOH even Quake 2 had C for crouching. This is not a roguelike only paradigm.
How about Q for 'Q'uery the gods? :P
Or 'Q'uench Zangroh's thirst for destruction. Or 'Q'uietly contemplate opening a chest but set it on fire instead. Yeah, you have me there. However, you are asking me to make mnemonic myself. NetHack does it for me. Epilogue really falls short of NetHack in this regard. Maybe a partial solution is to try thinking up good mnemonics for current commands and putting them in help screen.
if you are unsure if you have missed a chest, just tap the autoexplore button, since it will path to chests that you have seen as well.
It can do this? Hey, great! I assumed it wouldn't. To be honest I disregarded autoexplore completely despite being aware of its presence.
-
date=1341021580]if you are unsure if you have missed a chest, just tap the autoexplore button, since it will path to chests that you have seen as well.
It can do this? Hey, great! I assumed it wouldn't. To be honest I disregarded autoexplore completely despite being aware of its presence.
It also paths to the nearest staircase if everything is explored and all the chests are opened, so it's always a safe bet to give it a tap when you think you're done with a level. Actually, come to think of it, it also grabs any gold and ingredients you may have missed.
Edit: I'm trying to make the log a little easier to parse. What do you think of this?
(http://i.imgur.com/hAC9m.png)
The @ line indicates the player's attack turn, with !'s indicating enemy attack turns. I think it is at least an improvement on the old way.
-
Looks better!
As for autoexplore I tried it on explored level and it indeed say the level was fully explored and placed the character over stairs. Neat. Funniest moment was my first try of said feature. This was also on completely explored level and over stairs. My character went off to seemingly random direction, collected a patch of ingredients (which I missed because it sort of blended with ground) and came back. That impressed me positively.
I still prefer to navigate through the dungeon myself. However, when large area is discovered and most enemies slain it sure helps a lot. It insists a bit too much on exploring void tiles but otherwise it is perfect.
-
Updated to 2.02, the links remain the same.
Change Log:
Fixed a typo
Removed the Quick trait spam
Added a particle effect upon xp gain
Improved the log formatting
Added a sound for going down stairs
Improved how the map displays landmarks
Added a music track for level 4
Added 5 additional color themes unlocked through achievements
-
Great small game you made!
After playing it about 20 times, here's what i think:
(Sorry for imperfect english, as it is not my primary language)
I like the most:
- Somethings remains from each characters that makes subsequent ones stronger, so i don't have the impression, when i die, to have done all this for nothing and lost my time, and is way less frustrating. That makes me want to play again and again..
- Ground tiles affecting condition and stats are quite fun.
- The new map dots colors helps see what's what.
- The game is "coherent" in its style. The game aspects like character creation/leveling, battle system, interface functionality and graphics all feels like they should.
- Satisfying randomness.
- We see what we wear, same for npcs.
- Monsters/npcs obey the same rules as you: mana, stamina, stats, bonuses, items used are same as items droped, charge delays, ...
- Cool (enhenced) early atari-like graphics.
- Mouse functionality and tooltips.
- I can't save, so i can't cheat. I'm protected from myself. ;p
I like less:
- I think that the "creator" is a bit overpowered on the 4th dlevel, never killed him, yet. Maybe im just not good enough.. Any hints about it?
- The more of each monster i kill, the easier it becomes to kill it with other characters after. Am i right if i say that it also means that the easiest and more common monsters will be easier to kill after a few games and the tougher (rarer) will barely change. So the more i play, the more difficulty spikes there will be?. This may or may not be so bad, as i have to play more games to really know if it will unbalanced the game much.
- Also i saw that when a monster kills me, the log says it gains experience, does that mean it will be easier for him to kill me from now on? If so, that may be a bit discouraging (damn Creator!).
- I think that the new animation for getting experience have too much visibility. It seems as if it is of equal (or greater) importance as leveling. It would have been great as a leveling animation btw.
- Having to die to see the highscores.
I think it'll be even better if there was:
- More small things unlocked by achievements.
- A minimap (on a separate window?).
- More armor and weapons variety (effects and base items) would add much to the replayability.
- (as Ancient mentioned) Info in tooltip about npcs attack/defense type (ph,ma,li,da,fi,ic), so we have the impression the bonuses other than phys and mag are usefull. I know they are, but i want to "feel it" a bit more, and it may help to know when to be careful or charge, or swap weapons/shield...
- Random "variants" for dungeon levels layouts. Anything that adds to the replayability should be good.
- More insight about what's hot in the full version would makes it sells more, maybe.
Didn't played the full version yet, will probably buy it after this week-end (never bought anything online, waiting after paypal).
Also didn't tried alchemy yet (didn't even checked how it works).
Have a nice day.
-
I like less:
- I think that the "creator" is a bit overpowered on the 4th dlevel, never killed him, yet. Maybe im just not good enough.. Any hints about it?
- The more of each monster i kill, the easier it becomes to kill it with other characters after. Am i right if i say that it also means that the easiest and more common monsters will be easier to kill after a few games and the tougher (rarer) will barely change. So the more i play, the more difficulty spikes there will be?. This may or may not be so bad, as i have to play more games to really know if it will unbalanced the game much.
- Also i saw that when a monster kills me, the log says it gains experience, does that mean it will be easier for him to kill me from now on? If so, that may be a bit discouraging (damn Creator!).
- I think that the new animation for getting experience have too much visibility. It seems as if it is of equal (or greater) importance as leveling. It would have been great as a leveling animation btw.
- Having to die to see the highscores.
I think it'll be even better if there was:
- More small things unlocked by achievements.
- A minimap (on a separate window?).
- More armor and weapons variety (effects and base items) would add much to the replayability.
- (as Ancient mentioned) Info in tooltip about npcs attack/defense type (ph,ma,li,da,fi,ic), so we have the impression the bonuses other than phys and mag are usefull. I know they are, but i want to "feel it" a bit more, and it may help to know when to be careful or charge, or swap weapons/shield...
- Random "variants" for dungeon levels layouts. Anything that adds to the replayability should be good.
- More insight about what's hot in the full version would makes it sells more, maybe.
Didn't played the full version yet, will probably buy it after this week-end (never bought anything online, waiting after paypal).
Also didn't tried alchemy yet (didn't even checked how it works).
Have a nice day.
First of all, I'm glad you like the game!
Now onto the feedback:
The bosses do seem overpowered at first, which I think they should. If it's any consolation, I can usually get past the 4th level, although it took some time to figure out the best strategy (even though I'm the developer :P). Items, items, items is all I will say :)
The amount that things get easier to kill is relatively small. And yes, it also is difficult to get an advantage on rare monsters. I didn't want there to be a situation where they become less meaningful.
The monsters gaining experience is really just a flavor thing. They won't get stronger in future playthroughs :)
Yes, I was unsure if I wanted the exp animation to happen only at level up or not. In the end I decided to put it on xp gain so there was a definitive visual feedback on kills (in case someone has their sound off).
I agree that I should put the high score lists in the menu somewhere.
There was a minimap before, when the screen resolution was wider, but I removed it to fit things down to a smaller size and reduce clutter. I may figure out a way to bring it back.
I'll consider adding additional lines to enemy tooltips like "Light attack, Dark defense" flags to make it a bit clearer.
There actually are random variants to the dungeon levels ;) There are 3 additional generators, though much rarer than the standard cave-like one. I can see about adding some more common ones.
The full version adds 3 levels, as well as 3 additional gameplay modes. There are 2 "hard" modes for people who want more of a challenge, and 1 puzzle-like mode for people that want something where every step is more meaningful. The 3 bonus levels are really the heart of the game, where things get real. The game becomes very unforgiving, but luckily you won't get there unless you know pretty well how to survive :)
Oh, you haven't done alchemy? I imagine you will have an easier time dealing with the bosses if you partake in the creation of extra items, although it is not totally necessary.
Thanks for the feedback! Gives me something to think about :)
------------
As an aside, I am proud to announce that epilogue is now available for purchase on Desura!
-
I can reliably reach Blobtopolis but have never survived it. For bosses I learned two things. First, go all out on them the moment you encounter one. Second, do not fight both of them at once. Too dangerous. Possibly trap one with cage bomb if you can spare one and then deal with the other boss first. I find The Creator to be stronger than Timeless Voyager. Managed to kill the former only once. I like to start the fight with fire bomb because it obscures sight. It allows to drink buff potions before they come closer to harass you.
I have another suggestion. Disable the green position marker in alchemy menu when someone uses keyboard shortcuts to select ingredients to mix. Having two or three light green choices and one green can get me to make a mistake occasionally.
I found an armor piece that made me look headless. Funny thing. :-) One weird stuff was Medusa's (I think) weapon which turned my body armor to blob armor ... roguelike stuff at its best.
There are floor grates inside campfire rooms. Interact command could potentially do something with them. At the very least make log explain that this way smoke pours in and one cannot do anything about it. I would like to disarm them so that I can enter the room, break grate to prevent more smoke pouring up and retreat behind door. After taking a trip to Minuet's altar I could go back and kick those oozing blobbies around without them having smokescreen. Would make fun possibility if floor grate is generated close to door.
Resplended flametouched throwing knife has so long name it creeps to another line and badly messes up inventory screen. Observed in 1024x768 resolution with full screen mode.
As an aside, I am proud to announce that epilogue is now available for purchase on Desura!
This goes a bit against the bundle but hey ... congratulations! Keep up the good work.
-
I can reliably reach Blobtopolis but have never survived it. For bosses I learned two things. First, go all out on them the moment you encounter one. Second, do not fight both of them at once. Too dangerous. Possibly trap one with cage bomb if you can spare one and then deal with the other boss first. I find The Creator to be stronger than Timeless Voyager. Managed to kill the former only once. I like to start the fight with fire bomb because it obscures sight. It allows to drink buff potions before they come closer to harass you.
I have another suggestion. Disable the green position marker in alchemy menu when someone uses keyboard shortcuts to select ingredients to mix. Having two or three light green choices and one green can get me to make a mistake occasionally.
I found an armor piece that made me look headless. Funny thing. :-) One weird stuff was Medusa's (I think) weapon which turned my body armor to blob armor ... roguelike stuff at its best.
There are floor grates inside campfire rooms. Interact command could potentially do something with them. At the very least make log explain that this way smoke pours in and one cannot do anything about it. I would like to disarm them so that I can enter the room, break grate to prevent more smoke pouring up and retreat behind door. After taking a trip to Minuet's altar I could go back and kick those oozing blobbies around without them having smokescreen. Would make fun possibility if floor grate is generated close to door.
Resplended flametouched throwing knife has so long name it creeps to another line and badly messes up inventory screen. Observed in 1024x768 resolution with full screen mode.
As an aside, I am proud to announce that epilogue is now available for purchase on Desura!
This goes a bit against the bundle but hey ... congratulations! Keep up the good work.
The thing I really like about those bosses is that, since they spawn enemies, the fight gets very difficult if you don't take them down quickly. You also have to decide if it's better to kill the minion or just take down the boss. Yes, caging one is a very good strategy if you have the option. I can usually bring them down without too much trouble, and I try to avoid them until the level is mostly clear. You don't want them to spawn an enemy and then have another enemy wander in, if it can be avoided. I actually find the enemies that poison you to be the real threat on the 4th floor. Of course, all of this pales in comparison to the bosses on 6, 7, and 10. But it helps you nail down some strategies on the way :)
I'll fix the alchemy thing.
Interesting idea about grate interaction, I'll look into it.
Yes, the medusa blob is probably my favorite enemy, although the necrotic traveler might win out. Actually, the *REDACTED* guy on the last level takes the cake here.
Ahh, the dreaded rare incredibly long name, I thought I had truncated all of them. I'll get that fixed ;)
-
Ancient:
I updated to 2.02b for Linux, and the game now supports OpenAL audio drivers. I thought you might like to know in case you want to get PulseAudio off your machine :)
-
Thanks, this is appreciated. I have nothing against pulseaudio. This is one daemon to rule them all which should make things easier to manage. Will try taking off PA and installing OpenAL some time later. I was getting along with ALSA fine up to this point.
By the way, I managed to blow right through Blobtopolis. Went for magic character with Zhangroh as deity and sacrificed every chest. That got me high stats. Selected flat as second trait to get better survivability. With a bit luck in terms of equipment I slew both bosses without using consumables. Not that I had many since my alchemical attempts turned bit unlucky. Finally, my character succumbed to enduring poison. Does it time out?
-
Thanks, this is appreciated. I have nothing against pulseaudio. This is one daemon to rule them all which should make things easier to manage. Will try taking off PA and installing OpenAL some time later. I was getting along with ALSA fine up to this point.
By the way, I managed to blow right through Blobtopolis. Went for magic character with Zhangroh as deity and sacrificed every chest. That got me high stats. Selected flat as second trait to get better survivability. With a bit luck in terms of equipment I slew both bosses without using consumables. Not that I had many since my alchemical attempts turned bit unlucky. Finally, my character succumbed to enduring poison. Does it time out?
It does time out. It also lasts for a decent amount of time, but deals less damage than regular poison. It is kind of the absolute killer since your stats won't help you against it. I like this system although perhaps some people will disagree. Like most negative effects, it is removed when you pray to Minuet, as well as if you use certain abilities that remove negative effects. A good strategy is to eliminate whatever enemy has given it to you and then either withdrawing to safety or killing any left depending on what is possible and attempting to heal immediately. Like most problems, consumables can help a great deal with acquiring safety, and that is the danger of Zhangroh :)
Congrats on getting past the blobs though! It does get easier :)
About the 2.02b update. From some feedback it turns out that you still need to have the libpulse dependencies *installed*, but you do not have to run the daemon, which I guess is an improvement. The next version I think will completely remove libpulse in favor of openal, since I know some people that cannot/refuse to run pulseaudio, and I at least want everyone to be able to play :P
-
Good things:
- very robust GUI
- music
- I like the idea of playing as one of the monsters
Bad things:
- no saving
- the keyboard layout is really bad
- random monster names
- too many shooting opponents
- I'm forced to go through tutorials
I'd love to provide more feedback, but I'm afraid that without saving game it is currently impossible. But the general impression is very good. I hope you'll implement saving soon :).
-
Good things:
- very robust GUI
- music
- I like the idea of playing as one of the monsters
Bad things:
- no saving
- the keyboard layout is really bad
- random monster names
- too many shooting opponents
- I'm forced to go through tutorials
I'd love to provide more feedback, but I'm afraid that without saving game it is currently impossible. But the general impression is very good. I hope you'll implement saving soon :).
saving is already implemented for the next release
keyboard reconfig is also implemented for the next release so you can change them to your liking
the "tutorials" are just little popups that you can just hit escape to remove and only show up once. I guess I can add an option to make them never come up, but the game would be difficulty without that initial knowledge flow in my opinion
"too many shooting opponents" is a complaint I get from people used to standard roguelikes. almost every creature, including melee ones, have ranged attacks. learning how to deal with that is the whole point of the game
i like the random monster names and I have gotten good feedback on that, so they will be staying :)
thanks for the feedback
-
Updated to 2.03
Changes:
Added an effect for leveling
Added the ability to Save & Quit
Added the option of automatically sorting the inventory upon pickup
Added the ability for "quick use" of consumables with Alt
Added option of disabling the software cursor
Added target-memory such that spacebar now defaults to your last target
Added 2 more minimap overlay options, accessed by pressing TAB
Added the ability to reconfigure the controls
Changed the minimap block size
Changed the selected item color on the alchemy screen
Changed the #SPOILER#, who is now much more deadly
Fixed an item format error
Fixed an outdated entry in the controls
Take some care with save files. Likely there are some bugs still hanging around due to the complexity. If your load crashes, please do send me the save file "save.game"
-
the "tutorials" are just little popups that you can just hit escape to remove and only show up once. I guess I can add an option to make them never come up, but the game would be difficulty without that initial knowledge flow in my opinion
You can add an option to skip tutorials to the character creation menu. I'd really appreciate it. I hate being forced into tutorials, even if they are "just little popups". Yes, the game is extremely difficult without an introdction to your unique world, your ideas and your rules. But somehow I prefer being completely lost (yet free) to being forced to anything. The rebellious side of my nature, I guess :).
"too many shooting opponents" is a complaint I get from people used to standard roguelikes. almost every creature, including melee ones, have ranged attacks. learning how to deal with that is the whole point of the game
I understand that and I'm not trying to convince you to throw ranged attacks away. But the difference between annoyance and challenge is very subtle. Challenges can be avoided, while annoyances cannot. If you placed shooting enemies only in *some* levels, it would be perceived as a challenge to get past them. Now they are everywhere, so this is just a turn off.
-
I don't like the mouse interface. In most programs left-click does the default thing, and right-click opens some kind of a context menu or help, or alternate action. And in Epilogue you use items with a right-click.
I would prefer a left-click to use items, and to drop them, either drag them or right-click for a context menu. No idea about right-clicks on the map.
the "tutorials" are just little popups that you can just hit escape to remove and only show up once. I guess I can add an option to make them never come up, but the game would be difficulty without that initial knowledge flow in my opinion
They are not little popus, but huge pages of text that you have to read because it seems that you would miss something otherwise (and I do not remember some details anyway). And they are indeed annoying. I prefer to read such info when I feel that I am missing something, not when the game thinks it should show me a page of text.
Maybe the first note should be a big welcome and an information about the notes themselves (hey, these notes explain the game. If you prefer to learn yourself, or forget something, you can also get all this information by pressing H, and disable them by [...]).
-
I don't like the mouse interface. In most programs left-click does the default thing, and right-click opens some kind of a context menu or help, or alternate action. And in Epilogue you use items with a right-click.
I would prefer a left-click to use items, and to drop them, either drag them or right-click for a context menu. No idea about right-clicks on the map.
the "tutorials" are just little popups that you can just hit escape to remove and only show up once. I guess I can add an option to make them never come up, but the game would be difficulty without that initial knowledge flow in my opinion
They are not little popus, but huge pages of text that you have to read because it seems that you would miss something otherwise (and I do not remember some details anyway). And they are indeed annoying. I prefer to read such info when I feel that I am missing something, not when the game thinks it should show me a page of text.
Maybe the first note should be a big welcome and an information about the notes themselves (hey, these notes explain the game. If you prefer to learn yourself, or forget something, you can also get all this information by pressing H, and disable them by [...]).
On the contrary I can't think of a game I've played where right-click wasn't the method of equipping/using items. Same with attacking, where left-click is usually a "Select" option and right-click is the action. Context menus slow everything down so I don't see the advantage there. I had dragging for dropping at one point but, like context menus, I realized just clicking was much faster.
I'm pretty sure the initial popup already describes what's going on, and indicates that all the information is in the help pages if you want to check there later on. I also don't see how something can be annoying when you can just close it, especially since you only have to deal with it once. It's not like real annoyances in the roguelike genre, like having to tap space to scroll thru messages upon every attack :P I tried to keep them concise, and include only what I felt was really necessary. Most of the systems in Epilogue are very different from genre norms so someone who doesn't read the popups will not know how healing works, or fatigue, or lunging, etc. I think then that not reading the popups will severely hinder one's enjoyment of the game, which is why they are there in the first place. They also pop up exactly when you need them, which is much better than waiting until you think you need them. I.E. a fatigue popup occurs when you get tired, and the healing popup occurs when you get to the point where you can heal. I think this is better than just letting the player fall asleep and leaving them in a state of confusion, similarly with healing. However, I agree that there should be a way to disable them, as I mentioned before, in the case that someone prefers to explore in their own way.
This is really a general problem of roguelikes I suppose. If you read everything at the beginning and pay close attention then you will save yourself a lot of time in the long run, but most people aren't patient enough to do that. If you feel there is a more concise way for me to get this information across then let me know, but at any rate most people find the popups useful.
Edit:
I have added this to the first note:
More of these notes will show up as different game mechanics come into play. You can disable the notes at any time in the options if you prefer to be on your own.
-
In popular non-game software (such as web browsers and operating systems), left-click and right-click work as I mentioned. Left-click is the default action, and right-click opens a context menu.
Same in Battle for Wesnoth (which has only a map, no inventory): left-click to move and attack, right-click for context menu. Most of the options from context menu except one are useful only in rare special circumstances. I think you intend to avoid having extra options, so there is no need for a context menu. That's good (well, it has its upsides and downsides, actually).
I have checked Diablo II and Dungeons of Dredmor, and on one hand you are right, but on the other hand, there are important differences which make Epilogue confusing for me, while these games are not. Left-clicking an item initiates a movement. This movement can be used to equip stuff. Right clicking is only for using consumables (which is done rarely), so I left-click most of the time. I try to do the same in Epilogue, to equip another item, but it works differently: the item is dropped. I have to fix the mistake: move the mouse, left-click to pick it up (and it will usually appear not in the same place as it was before the whole process), move again, right-click to use.
I see that your one-click-drop interface is faster for experienced players, but it is annoying and confusing for me.
Also, in all three games mentioned above, left-clicking on the map does movement, attacking, and other usual things (talking to NPCs, opening doors, whatever). Is there a reason why you cannot have left-click on map do the usual thing in most cases?
They also pop up exactly when you need them, which is much better than waiting until you think you need them. I.E. a fatigue popup occurs when you get tired, and the healing popup occurs when you get to the point where you can heal.
No, they do not. I have found a campsite, clicked on it, and it disappeared. Some time later, the popup explaining fatigue occured. Apparently I have wasted a campsite... The healing popup would usually occur in the middle of a battle (at least it did when I tried). I would prefer to finish the battle first, rather than read about healing. Theoretically I can close it, but I would not, because I expect it to be important.
-
Also, in all three games mentioned above, left-clicking on the map does movement, attacking, and other usual things (talking to NPCs, opening doors, whatever). Is there a reason why you cannot have left-click on map do the usual thing in most cases?
They also pop up exactly when you need them, which is much better than waiting until you think you need them. I.E. a fatigue popup occurs when you get tired, and the healing popup occurs when you get to the point where you can heal.
No, they do not. I have found a campsite, clicked on it, and it disappeared. Some time later, the popup explaining fatigue occured. Apparently I have wasted a campsite... The healing popup would usually occur in the middle of a battle (at least it did when I tried). I would prefer to finish the battle first, rather than read about healing. Theoretically I can close it, but I would not, because I expect it to be important.
Left click on the map does do the usual thing in most cases. What exactly are you referring to? It examines altars, disarms traps, moves, opens/closes doors, uses fountains etc. It cannot attack because of the way items work in epilogue. You may for instance want to walk to the left, but if you "act" on that tile with a lunging weapon equipped you will lunge to the left. Right-click is tied to weapon use, so it will use your weapon in most cases, such as applying buffs onto yourself, so I use it for interaction only when there are two possible ways of interacting (for example examining or using a campsite or an altar).
The fatigue note pops up when you get to i think 50% fatigue, which is generally a good point to rest at. It doesn't show up at campsites, which perhaps it should. That being said, losing a campsite is rather a small issue. The healing popup likewise pops in when you get the red level of health. Again I think you are right that I should have it pop in only once you are out of battle, but since it also directs you to use health potions (which you will likely only do during battle) I think the timing is ok. Perhaps I can make a small notice on the screen that let's you know there are messages waiting and you can open them when you are ready.
-
Actually I do like those popups. They are very neat and clear. It's only the time they appear on the screen that is so inappropriate. It's not wise to present so much information at the beginning, because most people cannot possibly memorize all of it. They will feel overloaded with all that stuff. I think that the perfect solution would be something like context help. Example: you step on an alchemical ingredient, you press the Help button and a popup about alchemy is displayed. Of course, this would not always be accurate, for instance if you step on an ingredient and a weapon laying on the same cell, you won't be sure whether to display popup about alchemy or about weapons. But you probably catch the idea: present information only when it is actually wanted, not everything at once.
-
Left-click examines altars? Why not examine altars with mouse-over, and pray with left-click (as it works in the rest of the game)?
Disarm traps: well, in this particular case, I would assume that left-click moves into a trap...
Lunging: you are right, you need another click to use lunge when you are not targetting enemies. But when clicking on enemies, I think that we can assume that we want to attack them.
Why is potion usage a two step process (you first select a potion, then you click on the map to use it)?
Overall, the mouseover popups should tell you what happens when you left-click and right-click on stuff. This way, you will be able to remove some information from the tutorial popups, making them more concise and understandable.
-
Left-click examines altars? Why not examine altars with mouse-over, and pray with left-click (as it works in the rest of the game)?
Disarm traps: well, in this particular case, I would assume that left-click moves into a trap...
Lunging: you are right, you need another click to use lunge when you are not targetting enemies. But when clicking on enemies, I think that we can assume that we want to attack them.
Why is potion usage a two step process (you first select a potion, then you click on the map to use it)?
Overall, the mouseover popups should tell you what happens when you left-click and right-click on stuff. This way, you will be able to remove some information from the tutorial popups, making them more concise and understandable.
Actually, potion usage is now a one-step process (Alt + item #), assuming you have the most recent version. I don't want it to just be the same as equipping so that you don't for instance accidentally use a potion.
Good idea about mouseover describing what left and right clicking does. I will implement that. Actually, placing a lot of the descriptive information (about altars, camps, etc) will likely remove the need to have right-click do anything but use items/attack. This will perhaps make everything clearer/more consistent.
Wrt clicking on enemies, you may not be able to see the enemy and just be trying to move in a certain direction. For instance, even while blind, you can try to attack enemies with right click. This is an advantage to playing close attention to enemy location.
With disarming traps, again you may want to throw a smoke bomb on top of a trap, so right-click is used to "attack".
Thanks for this, I will make it so left click is always move/interact and right-click only does attack/item use. This will probably cause problems for players that are used to the current system but will make it easier in the long run.
Edit: oh, I realize now that I forgot to add Alt-Quick use for mouse controls. That is in for the next update.
-
How about this:
(http://kraflab.com/epilogue_mouseover.png)
I've added flavor text for everything else as well. I think it actually works quite well and I'm scratching my head as to why I didn't do this earlier. Thanks again Z :)
Edit:
I've gone ahead and pushed out an update.
OLD SAVE FILES ARE INCOMPATIBLE
Change Log:
Added secret doors.
Added mouseover flavor text for tiles. Enjoy my attempts at wit.
Added the option to disable tutorial notes
Added autoexplore memory – ignore a destination and it will not return there
Added the ability to unlock a door from the inside
Added smoke traps
Added teleport traps
Added mouse quick use control: Alt+Right-Click
Added proper pages in the help for tutorial notes
Added champion claws, from which you can summon veteran enemies to fight for score and loot
Increased the favor you need with Zhangroh to get bonuses (I forgot to readjust this when I increased chest spawn rates)
Modified some of the help pages
Changed mouse controls: now left is used for all interaction (including praying) and right is always used for attack/item use
Reduced Void Tile spawn rate
Increased Thorn Tile spawn rate
Optimized autoexplore a bit (3-6ms -> 0-1ms) but you may not notice
Fixed Minuet’s altar
Fixed draw ordering in certain cases
-
I do not know how to pick up items in doors, or to stand in the door.
"Diminish trap: like a weaken trap" does not sound convincing.
Somebody has already mentioned this, but it should show the alchemy combinations I have tried. Would be cool to have the ingredients arranged on a circle, with lines corresponding to known colors and untested combinations.
I suppose that purple monsters are bosses, but it should be explained.
Maybe this is some Linux oddity, but Alt+right click opens some system menu for me.
Why I get items raising my DEF by +40 and the effect is much lower than 40? This should be explained. If they are precentages then "40%" should be shown, and I do not know what is the base value (if I use two +100% items, is it 3x or 4x?)
Tooltips for items should show "left click to drop, right click to equip, alt+right click to use" or something.
Maybe show the line "left click to move, right click to [whatever you are using]" on each map tooltip.
Right-clicking when you have no ranged attack, or your items are not charged, seems to simply do nothing. This is bad.
-
I do not know how to pick up items in doors, or to stand in the door.
"Diminish trap: like a weaken trap" does not sound convincing.
Somebody has already mentioned this, but it should show the alchemy combinations I have tried. Would be cool to have the ingredients arranged on a circle, with lines corresponding to known colors and untested combinations.
I suppose that purple monsters are bosses, but it should be explained.
Maybe this is some Linux oddity, but Alt+right click opens some system menu for me.
Why I get items raising my DEF by +40 and the effect is much lower than 40? This should be explained. If they are precentages then "40%" should be shown, and I do not know what is the base value (if I use two +100% items, is it 3x or 4x?)
Tooltips for items should show "left click to drop, right click to equip, alt+right click to use" or something.
Maybe show the line "left click to move, right click to [whatever you are using]" on each map tooltip.
Right-clicking when you have no ranged attack, or your items are not charged, seems to simply do nothing. This is bad.
Ah yes, mouse into doorway. I guess I don't use the mouse enough to run into these problems. Hmm. In the meantime, you can use wasd in such a situation, but I realize this is not ideal.
The weaken trap says that it is like the diminish trap. It's kind of a silly joke :P
Rearranging alchemy in some way would prove useful. I'll look into it.
Purple monsters? I assume you are talking about a monster flavor, such as captain or king. These are just more powerful varieties, as indicated by their title. You'll know when you get to the bosses :)
Hmm idk about the Linux alt+right click. I will check that out and see if it is just you or if it happens to me too. It definitely doesn't happen on windows (at least for me). I can perhaps change it to ctrl instead of alt.
Yes those numbers are percents, which should be obvious since +40 would be an insane amount, but I'll add percent signs. It shows the base value right next to the stat: "DEF 13/10" when you have a +30 item for instance.
I can add left/right control to all the tooltips i guess. I'll have to see if it doesn't make them too long/cluttered.
What kind of control would you like that can only happen when you try to do an attack that you cannot do? Or would you prefer a warning like "item not charged" or something?
Thanks again for the feedback. It is becoming clear to me that you are perhaps the first person to seriously play using the mouse, which is why this hasn't been brought up before :)
Edit: I double checked that alt-right click works fine for me on my linux, so I guess this is something specific to your distribution. At any rate, I think I will move alt commands to ctrl or make it reconfigurable.
Edit Edit:
Released a new version since I found some bugs.
Change Log:
Added a % sign to the item descriptions to be more explicit
Added alchemy memory - previously combined ingredients show up darker
Added the command "ctrl+left-click" to close doors with the mouse, while left-clicking now walks onto the tile. This feels more intuitive to me
Changed any control using alt to use control instead due to possible op-sys problems
Fixed autoexplore not proceeding through open doors in certain situations
Fixed a bug in pathfinding that was brought out with the new autoexplore
Fixed a crash involving saving after loading in certain situations
Fixed an error in the controls
-
Had a go at newest version. Improved alchemy screen is excellent and the big minimap is easy to look at. What I would suggest now:
Prevent achievement unlocked message from being obscured by minimap.
Mark allies in pop up window somehow.
Sometimes friends deadlock themselves in void tiles. The void damages them and they rest to heal.
UglyTroll said the hints that pop up are annoying. To offset that a bit those could be made into just two sentences and the rest put in small tabs that can be opened at any time to read them. Sort of what old Dungeon Keeper did. If you are somehow not familiar with the game this screenshot (http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/dungeon-keeper/screenshots/gameShotId,75217/) displays three icons to the right of sidebar. That way hints appear as they are useful but not necessarily need to be read immediately.
-
Allies really need some work in general. I'll look at doing some kind of overhall to make them more useful and to prevent problematic situations (i.e. there is no reason to ever heal on a void tile so that is an easy fix).
I'll get the achievement text on top of the minimap.
That is a good screenshot you have. I agree that method should be incorporated somehow.
Thanks for the feedback.
-
I normally play roguelikes with keyboard only, but I was trying to impersonate a "typical player". I already got used to most things, and things that annoyed me initially no longer annoy me, so probably my feedback will be of a different character now :)
Sometimes I see two-handed and offhand weapons which enhance shields. This makes no sense, does it? Likewise two-handed weapons which enhance another weapon attribute (not sure whether they appear). Please avoid such combinations, it is confusing. Even with a one-handed weapon enhancing another weapon attribute, I think that the enhancement should be rare and significant.
I have no idea what a "cracking stave" does. Whatever I point it at, there is no effect.
Tooltip for stats should be more detailed, like "10 + 30% = 13".
"You have successfully gathered the ingredient" - why not tell me what ingredient it was?
I have no idea what "mysterious growth" does, but maybe that's the point.
I think that void (and maybe other areas) should have a different color on the map. Also, in most cases it makes no sense to travel through void. Maybe some treasures should be generated inside?
-
I did not manage to determine what Crackling Stave does either. I suspected it would dig (crack the walls). Somehow it does not do that or I activated it improperly.
It would be helpful if instead of "300%" inventory said "3 charges" or "3 uses" if the former is too long.
-
I normally play roguelikes with keyboard only, but I was trying to impersonate a "typical player". I already got used to most things, and things that annoyed me initially no longer annoy me, so probably my feedback will be of a different character now :)
Sometimes I see two-handed and offhand weapons which enhance shields. This makes no sense, does it? Likewise two-handed weapons which enhance another weapon attribute (not sure whether they appear). Please avoid such combinations, it is confusing. Even with a one-handed weapon enhancing another weapon attribute, I think that the enhancement should be rare and significant.
I have no idea what a "cracking stave" does. Whatever I point it at, there is no effect.
Tooltip for stats should be more detailed, like "10 + 30% = 13".
"You have successfully gathered the ingredient" - why not tell me what ingredient it was?
I have no idea what "mysterious growth" does, but maybe that's the point.
I think that void (and maybe other areas) should have a different color on the map. Also, in most cases it makes no sense to travel through void. Maybe some treasures should be generated inside?
At some point you will no longer have the mysterious growth, and it will become clear what happened, unless perhaps you missed that moment.
The void has various benefits, since enemies cannot see through it. This makes it a great place to hide, but it also damages you, so it is a good instance of risk-reward in my opinion. There are times where treasure spawns in the void or where there are extra areas accessible only through it, though by random chance only. I don't like to force things such as treasure within because then the player can get to the point where they know what is coming next in that regard.
All stat improvements are %-based, so having 13/10 has all the information needed, such that I think 10+30%=13 is an unnecessary use of space. However, I will see how it looks :P
I thought staves said what they did...if not this is an oversight and I will fix it. Crack is an effect that shows up with some enemies late in the game, and it deals a major debuff to shield skill, making it excellent for dealing with tough enemies late in the game. The cracking staff might actually be the best item in the game depending on what type of character you have :)
Good idea to add the ingredient name to that message...it still exists from before the ingredients had names and I forgot to change it.
I can understand the skill modifiers on weapons bit, as they may be useless. However, single handed bonuses will stay since you might wield a wand and a sword depending on character. That being said, shield bonus on off-hand and alternate weapon bonuses on two-handed weapons is indeed unusable. I will get this fixed.
I did not manage to determine what Crackling Stave does either. I suspected it would dig (crack the walls). Somehow it does not do that or I activated it improperly.
It would be helpful if instead of "300%" inventory said "3 charges" or "3 uses" if the former is too long.
Yes, the staff notation is bad and I will fix that.
Thanks for the feedback! I had to deal with moving to a new apartment this week but things are settling down now and I should be able to actually get some work done :)
Edit:
As it turns out, there was a typo that led to the crack description being an empty string, so thanks a bunch for finding that bug :)
I have forgotten that stealth and perception do not increase by percentages. For consistency, I'm thinking about using direct numbers as in "MEL: 11 (8 + 3)"
-
At some point you will no longer have the mysterious growth, and it will become clear what happened, unless perhaps you missed that moment.
After posting the message I had the mysterious growth again and I got a positive effect. I think I got this effect in the past, but I did not read the message log (I was busy with a battle at the time) and had no idea what caused this. Maybe that was because the previous game I tried was PRIME where it is generally bad when something is growing inside. Maybe the tooltip should be more optimistic?
All stat improvements are %-based, so having 13/10 has all the information needed, such that I think 10+30%=13 is an unnecessary use of space. However, I will see how it looks :P
Sure, it would be wasteful to add this in the stat box, but hey, you have lots of space in the tooltip, and I would like to know the percentage bonus. For example to know whether an additional +10% would have an effect.
However, single handed bonuses will stay since you might wield a wand and a sword depending on character.
That's why I would like the bonus to be rare and significant in this case, as a reward for having a character which does not specialize on a single attack skill (7 out of 10 combat proficiencies do). I am not sure how this works in Epilogue, but in most games it is better to specialize in one powerful attack type than to have a variety of weak ones. Anyway, +STA is something that you should only use in battles which raise your level, right? Unnatural, I don't like this...
Some new feedback:
It is annoying that the game is based around different attack/defense types, and yet it is not known what the particular enemy is using. How should I know what The Creator is? Not sure, but I think he even did not drop anything after I defeated him.
Zangroh "has accepted your destruction", maybe this is cultural, but it sounds like "Zangroh is happy that you have been destroyed".
Sometimes there are chests standing on traps. Ctrl+clicking there destroys the chest and disarms the trap. The wrapped box (presumably containing the trap) is shown, but it does not appear in the "Ground:" list when moving to the spot.
Some enemies have strange bright lights floating around them, and I do not know what it means. I think it does not mean any special title (like King), and since Kings are more powerful than other enemies, there should be something to make this status clear. Maybe draw a crown?
Show herb patches on the map, maybe? I have tried to use the autoexplore feature on the map that I have explored, but the character went into the void and was killed.
-
At some point you will no longer have the mysterious growth, and it will become clear what happened, unless perhaps you missed that moment.
After posting the message I had the mysterious growth again and I got a positive effect. I think I got this effect in the past, but I did not read the message log (I was busy with a battle at the time) and had no idea what caused this. Maybe that was because the previous game I tried was PRIME where it is generally bad when something is growing inside. Maybe the tooltip should be more optimistic?
All stat improvements are %-based, so having 13/10 has all the information needed, such that I think 10+30%=13 is an unnecessary use of space. However, I will see how it looks :P
Sure, it would be wasteful to add this in the stat box, but hey, you have lots of space in the tooltip, and I would like to know the percentage bonus. For example to know whether an additional +10% would have an effect.
However, single handed bonuses will stay since you might wield a wand and a sword depending on character.
That's why I would like the bonus to be rare and significant in this case, as a reward for having a character which does not specialize on a single attack skill (7 out of 10 combat proficiencies do). I am not sure how this works in Epilogue, but in most games it is better to specialize in one powerful attack type than to have a variety of weak ones. Anyway, +STA is something that you should only use in battles which raise your level, right? Unnatural, I don't like this...
Some new feedback:
It is annoying that the game is based around different attack/defense types, and yet it is not known what the particular enemy is using. How should I know what The Creator is? Not sure, but I think he even did not drop anything after I defeated him.
Zangroh "has accepted your destruction", maybe this is cultural, but it sounds like "Zangroh is happy that you have been destroyed".
Sometimes there are chests standing on traps. Ctrl+clicking there destroys the chest and disarms the trap. The wrapped box (presumably containing the trap) is shown, but it does not appear in the "Ground:" list when moving to the spot.
Some enemies have strange bright lights floating around them, and I do not know what it means. I think it does not mean any special title (like King), and since Kings are more powerful than other enemies, there should be something to make this status clear. Maybe draw a crown?
Show herb patches on the map, maybe? I have tried to use the autoexplore feature on the map that I have explored, but the character went into the void and was killed.
Hovering your mouse over an enemy shows your chance to hit with each type of weapon, thus making it perfectly clear what the best offense (for your character) is against a particular enemy. In this way, even a melee character may find an advantage in wielding a bow against an enemy with low ranged defense.
I intended the stamina effect to be just a nice bonus if it happens to be on your equipment. I can see how it might cause people to want to micromanage their weaponry though...I'm not sure if I should remove/replace it or not.
I don't have a problem with the Zhangroh text, but perhaps I'll make it clearer. I see what you mean at any rate.
I will look into the chest+trap possible bug. I think I know what is happening...
Lit enemies have their names in different colors along with a title. The exceptions are that enemies holding a special item (ring, key) have green lights floating around them and rare enemies have no title (including bosses). I will add some explanatory text in the monster description, since this is I believe mentioned in the tutorial notes but can easily be missed/forgotten.
If your character enters the void, it should mean that there is nothing to explore but whatever is in/thru the void tiles (or that you have no path to anything new except through the void). It should stop your pathing once you take damage, at which point you can carefully navigate the void or just retreat. If that didn't happen let me know as it is a bug.
Mysterious growth can be good or bad...apparently you got lucky ;)
As far as mixed weaponry, I would like to think it is relatively balanced and there are specific advantages/disadvantages. Specialization means you have a much better chance of dealing with shield-based enemies. Using two types means you should on average have a better chance of dealing with non-shield-based enemies. The bonus with two types is probably less per enemy, but many more enemies do not have shields than the number that do. It also means that 2/3 of weapons that you find are perfect for you, so getting a rare drop from a powerful creature is twice as likely to work for you.
Edit:
I changed "destruction" to "sacrifice" for Zhangroh
I added "Carrying a special item" to green-lit monster descriptions
Fixed the trap-chest bug
Probably going to implement a few new monsters and drop an update, unless some more feedback rolls in :)
Really, truly thanks for the continued feedback. I'm at that point in development where interest from other people is the real thing that keeps me working on it
-
Version 2.1 is out.
SAVE GAMES ARE INCOMPATIBLE
Change Log:
All Versions:
Added a fade effect to projectiles which makes their travel seem more continuous
Added the line "Carrying a special item" to enemies with special items (keys, rings)
Added the control that left-clicking or using wasd while autoexploring halts autoexplore
Added the option of choosing whether autoexplore enters dangerous tiles (default=Yes)
Added the option of "bump to interact" for opening doors/chests/etc (default=No)
Added the option of slowing down autoexplore by adding a time delay (default=0)
Added comparison numbers in item descriptions for stats and skills
Added a sound effect for unexpected/odd events
Changed the mouse-over for items to make sure the tooltip does not get obscured by the log
Changed unexpected/odd event text to create newlines for easier parsing of the log
Changed from packages to crates for dropped items
Changed the stave syntax to read (2 charges) instead of a terrible percent format
Changed gather text to be specific to the thing gathered
Changed the way skills are displayed to be more clear and consistent "MEL: 11 (8 + 3)"
Changed Zhangroh text to use "sacrifice" instead of "destruction"
Changed the options menu controls so arrow keys loop
Changed the Summoning Stave to contain only 1 charge
Fixed some screenshot quirks
Fixed a missing description for the Crack effect
Fixed allies getting stuck in a heal-loop on a void tile
Fixed Zhangroh sacrifices deleting disarmed traps in certain cases
Fixed map obscuring achievement message
Full Version:
Added a new creature to the 1st floor: the "Star Minstrel"
Added a new creature to the 2nd floor: the "Amateur Acrobat"
Added a new creature to the 3rd floor: the "Supraliminal Smoke"
-
Preliminary work on a better note interface...The light icon is the active note, the darkest ones are actually flashing (indicating they haven't been accessed yet), and the middle-dark one has been accessed before. You can use the old control of closing the note to remove it, or click the icon to minimize it and save it for later.
I also made the font smaller in the notes because I decided it is much easier to read and looks less overwhelming when it fits on the screen...
(http://kraflab.com/epilogue_notes.png)
Any thoughts?
-
Looks good, especially the smaller font. First hint should be about other hints.
So hitting ESC close the message and makes it go permanently away? Click again to minimize is good but hitting escape should not remove it. Let left-click on a tab open/minimize it and right-click delete. It worked exactly like that in Dungeon Keeper. Thus a player can get rid of a hint without reading it. First hint about hints could auto-open to tell what those flashing tabs are.
Tabs could use tooltips that would say the topic of hint. For example "Blocks", "Healing", "Buffs" etc.
-
Good suggestions all around, thanks!
-
Version 2.11 is out now.
SAVE GAMES ARE INCOMPATIBLE
Changes:
Changed the fontsize in notes so you don't need to scroll them
Reworked the note system tutorial
Removed the teleport particle effect from simple swaps (such as with an ally)
Removed the chance for certain creatures to spawn as allies of the player or enemies
Removed the chance for passive creatures to spawn as Kings, etc
Fixed Baked Steel having 2 less stat points than it should
Fixed an autoexplore issue
Fixed certain effects not waking you (Void for instance)
Fixed traps appearing in locations where they cannot be picked up (fountains, etc)
Added a stun cap of 5 turns (after which you break free automatically)
Added a small boost to combat skills when in view of your god's altar
Added a screen prior to trait picking to stop you from accidentally selecting one
Added a better architecture for playing music tracks (under the hood)
Added the Cyclone Swordsman to the 1st floor (full version)
Added the Amphibiman to the 1st floor (full version)
Added the Gloomworm to the 2nd floor (full version)
Added the Huskling to the 2nd floor (full version)
Added the Powder Keg to the 3rd floor (full version)
Added the Martyr to the 3rd floor (full version)
-
Version 2.2 is out. Lots of fun additions in this update, as well as some old requests seeing fruition.
SAVE GAMES ARE INCOMPATIBLE
Changes:
Added 20 abilities to the game with various effects
Added stone tablets from which characters can learn the above abilities
Increased the possible character builds to over 333 billion as a result of this
Added champion and veteran knowledge bonuses
Reworked the knowledge page
Added a full menu to the title page (so you can access stats without creating a character)
Added a character stat page
Added a high score menu for easy access to all score lists
Added a new ui configuration for the following resolutions: 1366x768, 1680x1050, 1920x1080
Removed quick-keys for achievement and knowledge pages
Reworked a lot of menus, so there is now a group of things under a stat menu heading
Increased Burn Bright's skill bonus to 125%
Increased scrolling speed to 3x
Increased the noticeability of secret doors slightly
Changed the flask to target using the same mechanic as spacebar, which greatly increases the chance of success
Changed the font size in numerous places
Changed the potion sprite to follow the usual constraints
Edited some text
Cropped map tiles on the edge to always take up a specific area
Fixed the weakling mode score list
Fixed the mouse control for running
Fixed a mysterious flask issue
Fixed a note bug
Fixed a formatting bug in the ui code
Fixed a potential problem in the ui code
Fixed a missing line in certain character dumps
Reduced the executable size
-
Version 2.3 is out.
Changes:
Added a new game mode: Infinity: infinite dungeon arcade mode
Added a new game mode: Easy: 20% less monsters
Added particle effects for burning and poison
Added a "wobble" motion to movement and attacking
Added a stealth debuff to the Burning effect
Added a further light smoothing effect, which creates some nice effects
Added a slow trap
Changed the way the game modes are displayed, to organize them a bit
Changed some particle effects so that the "glowing" one only applies to powerful foes
Changed the sound effect for magic attacks
Changed ally follow distance
Fixed an autoexplore issue
Fixed an apparent preference for spawning certain monsters
Removed the particle effects from enemies with bonus drops since it was superfluous
-
There was a bug causing too many traps to spawn...hotfix is out....recommended update for anyone using v2.3
-
Epilogue is giving wrong numbers when switching from two one-handed weapons to a two-handed one. It only considers your main-hand weapon for calculating gains/losses.
Help note "Begin" could give keyboard shortcut of praying. Otherwise I found them unobstructive. Good job.
Stats in main menu is another well done thing.
The fading of tiles not in your view should be accelerated every time you issue movement. Otherwise it looks quite silly when field of view fails to follow you. The fading effect makes good impression on me only when falling asleep. Getting blinded removes the monsters immediately but darkens tiles slowly creating disjoint experience. As if being blind made you stop see monsters immediately but everything else only one second later. Me, I'd throw away the whole thing altogether. Can't remember if it is possible to turn it off from options menu. If not, please add such possibility. If yes, thank you and I'll gladly turn if off next time I play.
Suggestion: add some effect (particle? glowing outline?) to altar of your god while in your view.
-
Epilogue is giving wrong numbers when switching from two one-handed weapons to a two-handed one. It only considers your main-hand weapon for calculating gains/losses.
Help note "Begin" could give keyboard shortcut of praying. Otherwise I found them unobstructive. Good job.
Stats in main menu is another well done thing.
The fading of tiles not in your view should be accelerated every time you issue movement. Otherwise it looks quite silly when field of view fails to follow you. The fading effect makes good impression on me only when falling asleep. Getting blinded removes the monsters immediately but darkens tiles slowly creating disjoint experience. As if being blind made you stop see monsters immediately but everything else only one second later. Me, I'd throw away the whole thing altogether. Can't remember if it is possible to turn it off from options menu. If not, please add such possibility. If yes, thank you and I'll gladly turn if off next time I play.
Suggestion: add some effect (particle? glowing outline?) to altar of your god while in your view.
I thought I did get it to show the two one-handed to one two-handed comparison properly...I'll have to give the code a second look.
I'm actually thinking of making a full-blown tutorial, for which I have a decent script planned. I think the notes work pretty well, but it's hard to make the player understand how/when to use a lunging weapon. I was thinking about having the player pick one up and use it to leap across a swamp...But at the same time I like the fact that there is no hard split between the game and learning the game. I'll have to think that through. I'll add Q to the begin note at any rate ;)
Yes, I really like the stats. It's nice to see a large table with your progress against monsters. Glad you like it.
I actually really like the "light trail" following the player. Imagine the there is a light source following the player rather than the player holding a torch. I think there is a game that does this but I don't recall the name. At any rate you can turn off "smooth lighting" in the options.
Perhaps some glowing light emanating from your god's altar is in order. That's a good idea.
Thanks for the feedback!
-
2.4 is out.
Weapon comparison issue is fixed. I changed fonts in a lot of places again...every time I do I feel I get a better look out of things, although it could just be seeing something different.
Changes:
Changed fonts here and there
Increased the stat menu font size to fill the screen
Fixed some buffs that were deactivating too fast
Fixed two-handed weapons not comparing against two one-handed weapons
Fixed tablets breaking after loading a save game
-
2.5
Added a line in creature mouse-over that indicates if it is an ally
Added a 5% healing effect to gold
Removed hit % calculations from allied characters
Changed the Star Minstrel to heal both friend and foe
Changed the Glasses trait to make you immune to eye injuries
Changed Oob dynamics: summoning aid only restores 10% health
Changed Oob dynamics: summoned creatures cannot summon additional creatures
Fixed a bug affecting honed, etc items
-
I have not played for a long time, but it seems much nicer now, with the new graphical effects.
Still, I feel that the game is about guessing. I can carry several weapons and armors, but how can I tell what to use against a specific enemy?
I don't like the colors in the Alchemy screen. They are confusing, I have lost valuable ingredients because I thought that I am creating something, but in fact I have selected something else. You are using color to mark the ingredient under cursor, ingredients tested against it, selected ingredients, and combinations. I think you should display which ingredients are selected, and which ingredients are tested/tested against, using two separate methods.
Should not the list in the Knowledge screen display which enemies are special?
-
I have not played for a long time, but it seems much nicer now, with the new graphical effects.
Still, I feel that the game is about guessing. I can carry several weapons and armors, but how can I tell what to use against a specific enemy?
I don't like the colors in the Alchemy screen. They are confusing, I have lost valuable ingredients because I thought that I am creating something, but in fact I have selected something else. You are using color to mark the ingredient under cursor, ingredients tested against it, selected ingredients, and combinations. I think you should display which ingredients are selected, and which ingredients are tested/tested against, using two separate methods.
Should not the list in the Knowledge screen display which enemies are special?
I generally just pick the most balanced equipment, and try to minimize elemental effects. Since you will generally not see a majority of any one type of enemy, it doesn't matter a huge deal which armor you wear. You're always going to have advantages and disadvantages, and how you react to when things go bad is the real "game" of it all. Short answer: it doesn't matter and you can win without understanding even which enemies use magic and which use physical. That type of micromanagement isn't possible in the inventory space anyway.
Alchemy does need some reworking, i agree.
I'm not sure what you mean by special, but it does in a way, since minibosses/etc do not have veteran numbers for instance.
-
I added an expected damage to the hit rate table on mouseover, such that if you really wanted to, you could see whether one or another armor worked better, or if a certain weapon was better on a specific enemy.
I have avoided an explicit stat list because I don't want to bog down the mouseover with a ton of information (as well as I think it is unnecessary), but this seems reasonable to me, and perhaps some people will benefit from it.
(http://i.imgur.com/vpzP8.png)
Any thoughts?
-
I've concatenated the last 4 updates below. The only feedback I would specifically look for is on the recent addition of the stat affinity system, but to be honest I'm pretty satisfied with the way things are over all. Feature requests are of course always welcome.
2.6
Added 10 enemies (2 bosses), 18 weapons, 10 armors, and 2 achievements
Added a challenge level: Slimenopolis
Added a damage estimate to enemy mouseover
Added a new class: Slimeomancer (psychic/slime abilities)
Fixed an ability bug
Fixed an ally bug in the ai
Fixed two shields missing shield bash
Increased the tabbing of selected alchemy ingredients
Reduced the enduring poison duration to 30 turns
Reduced the stealth potion duration to 15
Removed some log spam
2.7
Added a new monster: AI Convict (level 5)
Added a new class: Physicist
Added the phrase “This does not work on powerful foes” to certain descriptions
Reduced the blood tribesman’s ability costs substantially (40-60%)
2.8
Added the Acid Demon optional boss (floor 5)
Added an effect that you receive if you collapse from exhaustion
Added acid traps
Changed the Cartographer’s first ability
Changed the way UI windows look a bit
Changed the Cold Feet trait to also freeze swamps
Changed the Soulful trait to correctly stack with Paciscraux
Fixed chests not having access to all the traps
Fixed a bug involving tile changes
Fixed a poison immunity bug
Increased the necessary favor for Kagh rewards
Increased trap spawn rates slightly
2.9
Added a new class: The Drifter
Added a stat affinity choice to character customization
Added a particle effect associated with each type of elemental damage
Added a time limit for spawned allies (affects the level 4 bosses and the Summoning Stave)
Added two new variations to the list of dungeon generators
Added an autosave feature that restores your progress in the event of a crash
Changed the ui scaling system to support almost any resolution 800×600 and up
Changed the loading screen (this is generally only visible for an instant)
Changed the level 4 generator to prevent terrain from breaking into the safe room
Fixed the rate of rare levels appearing in the infinite dungeon
Fixed a bug where the wrong music would play under certain circumstances
Fixed a bug where the Cyclone Swordsman was getting too many extra turns
Fixed a bug that caused the Acid Demon to be more deadly than intended
Fixed a weapon that was missing a few stat points
Fixed some creatures missing from the knowledge page
Reduced the length of the healing particle effect
Replaced Smoke Bombs with Ink Bombs
-
I've only played a few games of Epilogue, but I've noticed a few things that may be unintended behavior:
1) Autoexplore in some cases says level is fully explored, when in fact it is not.
2) I'm pretty sure hit rate shows incorrect numbers when you have damaged limbs.
Also, I found it somewhat annoying that pushing space will skip your turn if it doesn't do anything else. I would much prefer it if it did nothing, rather than waiting.
It seems to me that the multiple damage type stat affinities are basically never worth getting; after level 4 or 5, most enemies will generally have >5 or so on almost all resistances, making the 1-2 points damage on the various types your weapon doesn't have essentially useless. This is unlike the defensive stat affinities, which are generally always useful.
I think this has been mentioned before, but all the levels before the blobopolis or whatever its called don't really present much of a threat. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it could add to the game if one or two slightly higher level enemies appeared on them.
As I said, I've only played a few games, so when I have more time I'll probably have more to say.
-
Yes on autoexplore, it indeed misinterprets the player's ability to explore certain areas at certain times. I think this is due to enemies blocking tight passages and the algorithm seeing a wall, although it might perhaps be more involved than that. I've been ignoring it since it doesn't have a particularly big impact on play.
Hit rate is missing limb effect. I'm not sure if this is intentional or not. The main purpose of these numbers is to tell you which weapon type would be best to use, so I think the magnitudes are maybe not so important. It should give the correct value though.
Spacebar is meant to use whatever items you are holding, and this includes swinging your weapons at an empty tile. I can see why you might think this should have nothing happen, but there are instances where you would want to try attacking what you cannot see, when you are blind for instance or when there are invisible creatures around. I can't have nothing happen because then you could exploit it when trying to attack while blind, and I don't want to remove the ability to try to attack things you cannot physically see either.
I'm not sure why you think that most enemies have >5 on most resistances late in the game as this is completely false. As a matter of fact, armor starts carrying lots of negative protection values the further in the game you go, so elemental offensive stat affinities get even better. Defense is generally better than offense, although if you kill slowly you are more likely to get into long fights, which has various consequences. I think I would always pick offense personally.
The levels before the blob city are more interesting in the full version of the game, because there are more enemies, each of which has a unique ability. Some people struggle to make it to the blob city though, so I'm not sure there is room to make things particularly harder there. It also depends on what type of character you play. I think the mage has it pretty easy early on whereas the melee is more enjoyable (to me at least). As far as harder enemies appearing, they already do, though perhaps maybe they aren't hard enough (e.g. the snake demon, fire blob, and ghost on the first level, and champs/kings/etc varieties).
Thanks for the feedback.
-
Ah, that makes sense about the spacebar.
Maybe I just haven't got far enough into the game (or wasn't paying enough attention), but it seemed like after the first four or five levels, most armors would have 1-2 negative values, and all of the rest positive.
-
2.99 has been released.
After a lot of consideration on the matter, I decided to make the early game harder. You now have a -15 penalty on protection and magical protection on level 1, -10 on level 2, -5 on level 3, and 0 on level 4-10. This way, the game from 4-10 is unchanged, but the initial few levels are a bit tougher. There should be moments where you are in a tough bind on level 1 now (less or more depending on your experience with the game).
I was thinking about a lot of alternatives, such as decreasing the overall health pool, but I wanted to limit the effect on the latter half of the game, which seems to play out exactly how I intended.
Note: the Mac version will be delayed until the 3rd/4th because I don't have my macbook with me at the moment.
Thanks again everyone for the feedback.
Edit:
Had to drop a patch that fixed some bugs. 2.99b is out on all platforms.
-
2.A released. I finally relented on the "able to see elemental affinities" front, so thanks for all the people that pushed me in that direction.
***Save Files Are Incompatible***
Added a new optional boss: Private Hell
Added “Hold E to Heal” to the log message when the player is bleeding out
Added a max health bonus received when killing bosses (including optional ones)
Added elemental strength/weakness info to enemy mouse-over in exchange for damage expectation
Added ingredients to level 8-10, although they are in lower numbers than in level 1-7
Added a “Yes/No” confirmation to quitting (when your character is still alive)
Fixed loaded tiles having the wrong lighting level
Fixed the ‘Running’ effect being mishandled in the effects window
Modified the character help menu to correctly describe shield effects
Removed Stamina effects from items
Removed Stamina effects from Kagh buffs