Dungeonmans!

[mariodonick]

But why do so many people have setup problems? I mean, why don't XNA installers simply automatically download and install all necessary components, if not present on the computer?

[ido]

[EDIT: this comment no longer makes sense after Mario edited the previous comment ]

Because there is no way to "simply" automatically download and install all that stuff.

At least in my case having to implement a system that downloads and installs python, pygame/pyglet & all of its dependencies on win/linux/mac (on 32 & 64 bits and on all different versions of these OSs) will probably counteract the main advantage of using it in the first place, which is making development easier.

To quote a wise man:

Shit is NOT easy

[mariodonick]

I just noticed that I wrote "they" -- I meant Microsoft and their installers with this. The installers MS provides should download all the XNA stuff automatically, not the users ...

[Etinarg]

Flash games have become popular because they need very little installation I think. many people have the flash plugin already. They just need to open the web site with the game, and can play.

I'm quite sure that this is a core part of the big success of flash games that we see lately.

I try to get a bit of that with using Java applets for my projects- but installing Java is more difficult than installing flash, and Java applets have troubles on some systems, too. But regardless of that, I think ease of installation is a key feature to promote a game, at least it helps to reach many people easily. Lazy people like me do not want to install anything, and therefore don't even get to see some of the games.

Edit: Also I'm paranoid enough to be afraid that something on my PC doesn't work anymore after installing XNA, and I'll have troubles to restore my PC to the current state. Thus I'll not install such big things like XNA on an old box like mine, until someone can assure me it's not of any danger.

[ido]

Silverlight is also surprisingly good (even on non-ms platforms).

[Slash]

I think the genre can get to be known by a lot more people if successful console roguelikes are developed, and that's always good. I also think ASCII is just a minor component of a roguelike.

Python, Java, and other similar frameworks may make it harder to get to your players at first, but surprisingly they may also allow reaching more of them, as long as your game is good enough to get people into installing the required components dunno much about XNA though...

[ido]

Python, Java, and other similar frameworks may make it harder to get to your players at first

There is a huge practical difference between python and java - java is installed on ~85% (flash on >90%) of all computers, python on almost none except for macs and linux, where some older version is normally installed by default.

If anything using java makes it easier to get players because it's a lot easier to provide Mac & Linux versions: on tametick.com I get about 15% mac, 15% linux, 70% windows visitors according to Google Analytics.

So yeah, ignore 30% of your market at your peril

I think a lot of people grossly underestimate how much more popular mac & linux have become in the last 5 years - at least among RL players, which is likely a significantly different demographics than 'normal' gamers (and are relatively under-served because of all the windows-only games out there).

[Etinarg]

In the past some of the drawing operations of the Java graphics API seemed to be very slow on Linux. At least I got feedback that some of my applets run very badly on Linux. So yes, it allows to reach more people, but not all have a good experience.

I'm not sure if the current Java versions do better, or if just he average computer nowadays is so much faster that fewer people have such problems. My impression is that Java is good for many types of games these days.

[Krice]

python on almost none except for macs and linux

Besides python, being the best of all in everything, is really bad in backwards (or forwards) compability. It's ridiculous in modern times that you need the exact major version of python the program is using. I have three major versions installed, because I need python for Blender and some other programs.

[Maelstrom]

Game refuses to work. It sucessfully downloading some stuff but crashes afterwards. This happens both on XP and 7

[Conal]

ALl im going to say is good luck with your roguelike, I have an okay PC so I will try it.

To be honest though guys I can maybe just a tad understand why the guy perhaps took issue with some comments I mean look at it this way,

The guy develops a graphical roguelike and from what people that tried it say it looks damn good and plays

Now to get to that stage the guy obviously has a clue code wise and I assume he maybe takes just a tiny bit issue with it being implied that a project he probably spent a load of time on and had to ead tons of stuff as well as learn like heaps getting implied as easy. (Its like those people that say developing a roguelike is easy, well yeah if you constitute a roguelike as printing a static room and some of the more easy initial steps but I wouldnt say neither was easy if the end product is something of a decent and complete standard) - still its kinda like if you are developing you have to just take the flak as right or wrong as it may be and maybe reaction was a bad thing on his part in terms of dmging pr for his game? If so Its a lesson learned for me should I ever develop something like this

I just want to see more rls on the scene though more devs the better! anyways gl all!

[jim]

I'm with you, Conal.

Dungeonmans, I downloaded and installed the game, intuitively ran setup before trying to run the application, and everything went fine. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones . Windows 7 64, FWIW.

As to the game, it put a great big smile on my face. I like the self-consciousness of it all; too much parody can become oppressive, but the gameplay itself is pretty straight, so you've got a nice counterbalance there. I like the horribly cheesy sprite choices for the PC and I also liked that the game was very easy to dive into. Quests dropped right into my lap and I was off toward the first dungeon. Made it to the second level, got cocky, and got killed by a lizardman captain.

So, thoughts:

-Hilarious stats.

-I like the skill tree system. I feel like I have a good deal of structure to work with, which puts me at ease. Too much complexity can create a kind of bewildering and tedious *band experience (only my own opinion), while too much rigidity makes one feel like the game ought to just go and play itself. This is a nice medium as it stands, and I'm looking forward to an expansion of available skill trees.

-I was pleasantly surprised by the variety of monsters in the early dungeon, including a couple of ranged fighters and a berserker. The more ACTUAL variety you have in terms of gameplay and player approach to monsters, the more robust Dungeomans will be.

-My third character, a fightermans, found the fat quest-giver to be in an inaccessible location. His entry door was sealed away by someone else's back wall. This character was also spammed by incessant warnings on the second level of the dungeon that "NPC: chicken has no allegiance" or something. No chicken in sight. Last but not least, upon returning from the dungeon to the overworld, the game crashed.

-My attempt to play a wizard class ended pretty quickly, and this was due to frustration with the number of keystrokes required to attack an enemy at range. I would strongly urge a more streamlined system of default firing (Crawl-esque?)

Overall, I am extremely impressed and am very much looking forward to the future of dungeonmans. You devs are doing a helluva job.