Dungeonmans!

[Krice]

XNA allows the game to be run on the 360 with relative ease. What if Roguelikes could appeal to console gamers?

THAT was the reason? Don't tell me, you are planning a commercial version?

[Etinarg]

As a developer, I'd not touch XNA.

Heh, well, as a developer who has been in the industry since 2004 and shipped multiple AAA titles, I think I'm ok with XNA.

Good I'm not a game professional, maybe when I said "developer" that spawned wrong ideas. And if XNA is alright of you, being aware of the problems, that is alright for me too. I just wanted to point out what I had seen in user experiences, in case you wouldn't know - I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't know that you are a professional game developer and from that surely have your own experiences with XNA already.

I thought this is just another hobby project as so many in this place, so my answer came from a different point of view. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[mariodonick]

I think I kinda knew I'd get shit from people here because Dungeonmans isn't an ascii game that runs on some obscure build of Kujubu Linux, but that's fine.

As you are certainly aware of, nobody here complained about Dungeonmans not being ASCII -- they just questioned XNA, and even this was not very unfriendly

Have a look at Powder -- it uses SDL and runs (among others) Nintendo DS, PSP and PS3.

[purestrain]

I think I kinda knew I'd get shit from people here because Dungeonmans isn't an ascii game that runs on some obscure build of Kujubu Linux, but that's fine.

As for my side; you don't get shit but no feedback either because i'm someone who runs some obscure linux.

[dungeonmans]

THAT was the reason? Don't tell me, you are planning a commercial version?

You can package XNA games for free and pass them around to other users. "Commercial Version" is a bit of a misnomer. I don't think any money is going to be made off of Dungeonmans though there is a donate button on the site <3

There is this game which was released for three dollars on XBox Live Indie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK0AQ_eVosQ

Now, I applaud the work that went into making this title, but there are games here on ToTR for free which are incomplete yet deeper and more satisfying than this game. However, more people have seen this Dungeon Adventure than will see Frozen House, or Big Ash Monsters, or all the cool zombie / cyber / just-plain-neato roguelikes on this site.

[Krice]

However, more people have seen this Dungeon Adventure than will see Frozen House, or Big Ash Monsters, or all the cool zombie / cyber / just-plain-neato roguelikes on this site.

If you refer XO owners as "people", then yes, maybe...

[ido]

I think I kinda knew I'd get shit from people here because Dungeonmans isn't an ascii game that runs on some obscure build of Kujubu Linux, but that's fine.

I don't think these sorts of comments are conductive to you getting feedback about your game.

[dungeonmans]

If you refer XO owners as "people", then yes, maybe...

Well that is an interesting opinion. So let me see if I understand ToTR's point of view:

1) XNA is too restrictive because it only runs on Windows and makes you install something.

2) XNA is a crutch used because it makes development easy.

3) XBox owners are not considered people.

Well, unfortunately, I don't agree with any of those points. I'm sorry to waste everyone's time.

[ido]

So let me see if I understand ToTR's point of view

There is no such thing as "ToTR's point of view", there are as many points of view as there are users.

The vast majority of the replies you got were courteous and meant to help you, so I suggest you don't try to find malice where there is none.

[getter77]

Yikes, how'd all this acrimony pop up in the thread?  

In terms of Dungeon Adventure:  Eh, implementation seems to have been a bit weird/shallow----sequel might well be better.  ASCII Quest  http://asciiquest.jadevaultgames.com/  on the other hand inspires a bit more confidence.

ToTR as a monolithic entity:  Nay!  Random folk mentioning things as they think to same as reasons most people do on most forums:  Either honest thoughts, ramblings, just cause, or playing Devil's Advocate----none shall ever truly know!  


Everybody is nifty around here, Krice just has a mysterious and delightful acerbic flavour somehow.....float around some other threads across the boards and I think you'll see all is well and friendly.  

Constructive end:  Dungeonmans, how's the roadmap looking in terms of the future in terms of classes and the other misc aspects of the game yet to be fleshed out?  Might there actually be some ways to get the game to run off other platforms via some trickery?  I seem to remember there being such a trick for a Java RL that somehow encapsulated all one needed and thus no installs and such were necessary.

Ah also:  Don't forget to update your Roguebasin entry with Update 1 and any other informative bits.  Information for posterity! 

[Fenrir]

Everybody is nifty around here, Krice just has a mysterious and delightful acerbic flavour somehow.....float around some other threads across the boards and I think you'll see all is well and friendly.  

Except me! I'm a crazy rabid ASCII defender!

Fenrir snarls and attempts to froth at the mouth, but succeeds only in drooling on himself. The great wolf relaxes his lupine features and chuckles.

Anyway, while I'll admit that graphical roguelikes are a big turn-off for me, so much so that I usually don't even try them, I'll certainly try and give Dungeonmans a go. I hope you stick around and sample all the awesome that this place has to offer.

Now I need to go look up "acrimony" and "acerbic."

[Krice]

3) XBox owners are not considered people.

Perhaps not the kind of people who like roguelikes. If you try to reach XO players with a roguelike, it has to be really good. But even good roguelikes were not a commercial success (they tried it even back in 80's), because XO people wants to play simple games. On top of that you have the nerve to come here and think little of us, the actual developers of this scene.

[mariodonick]

On top of that you have the nerve to come here and think little of us, the actual developers of this scene.

This was exactly my impression.

[dungeonmans]

I think the world of this scene and the people in it, including everyone here. There is nothing little about all the work that goes on here and there is absolutely nothing little about the people making these games.

XBoxes are in a lot of houses now. To say that none of them would enjoy a roguelike is missing out on a new fanbase. It doesn't have to mean big commercial sell out time. Again, look at Dungeon Adventure, and the upcoming Ascii Quest. "Commercial success" is a changing term. You're right that in the 80s it meant a full priced game like Dungeon Hack or something. But now a small group of indies, or even one person, can put a game on XBox live for a dollar. That feeling you had when you played Nethack or Rogue or whichever one it was for the first time, that can now reach a whole new group of people, and it doesn't take a huge team and a 60 dollar game.

I promise you, Krice, that there are people-- kids too-- who would really enjoy roguelikes but just don't know about them. It's not about pc / console / windows / linux, it's about that player with a bigass smile on his face because he just made it out of a wicked fight, or the kid pounding his forehead because he made a dumb mistake and got eaten on the 18th floor of the last dungeon.

[mariodonick]

I think the world of this scene and the people in it, including everyone here. There is nothing little about all the work that goes on here and there is absolutely nothing little about the people making these games.

Well, then I think both sides were a bit overly sceptical and sensitive -- first some people here (incl. me!) when XNA was mentioned and you said "I knew it", afterwards you when you overinterpreted that as criticism on your game. I think we should put aside these emotional things now.

Discussing if there is a "market" for roguelikes should also not be topic in _this_ thread. Perhaps somebody (not me, as, well, XNA requires some shaders or such thing, and my crappy graphics card is one reason why I play roguelikes...) has played the alpha and can give some proper feedback?