So I've started playing Moria.

[K.I.L.E.R]

I beat Moria yesterday. Easiest roguelike ever. 

[kaleto]

Glad you're having fun with this character.
A couple suggestions:  You're close to level 29, at which time you'll be able to learn the 1st spell (Prayer) in the 4th Holy Book of Prayers, so look for a couple in the shops. 

I wouldn't bother carrying rations of food myself; I was always able to find enough food points by drinking and eating everything I come across that doesn't hurt me.  Plus, you can always cast Create Food.  If I were to carry any food, it would be Elvish Waybread.

I'd also carry potions of Cure Critical or at least Cure Serious (but not both, as that would waste a backpack slot).  These will cure confusion and blindness--something Free Action doesn't protect you from.

Tips: You might come across Crowns.  Many are worthless, but some can be ultra-powerful.  Always identify them.

Dragons are evil, too, so if you find a SE weapon, it will do 2x damage against them; next best thing to using a SD on them.  If you find a Frost wand, keep it for use against the red Ds, as they're susceptible to cold.

At level 29, your Protect from Evil spell will protect you from Vampires (but not Master Vs), White Wraiths, Banshees, Forest Wights, and some bad p's.  At level 30 it will protect you from the young dragons (but not their breath weapon).

As you probably know, or will soon find out, Liches and Quasits drain dexterity, so finding a ring of Sustain Dexterity is a definite plus.

Save any potions of Restore Mana you come across.  Liches can drain mana (and absorb wand/staff charges) to heal themselves.  Plus, you'll need all the mana you can muster against the Balrog.

Why no bow?

[dreamician]

Well I died to a monster trap. It was ugly. Three guardian nagas and some invisibles.

Hah. I don't know how long this thread will last, but I'm going to keep posting logs and asking questions until it dies.

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Name        : Sir Gloom               Age          :     18   STR :     18
 Race        : Human                   Height       :     76   INT :      9
 Sex         : Male                    Weight       :    219   WIS :     13
 Class       : Paladin                 Social Class :     21   DEX :     15
 Title       : Keeper (2nd)                                    CON :     16
                                                               CHR :     16

 + To Hit    :      1       Level      :       3    Max Hit Points :     48
 + To Damage :      3       Experience :      39    Cur Hit Points :     48
 + To AC     :      1       Max Exp    :      39    Max Mana       :      4
   Total AC  :     11       Exp to Adv :      60    Cur Mana       :      4
                            Gold       :     186

(Miscellaneous Abilities)

 Fighting    : Very Good    Stealth     : Poor         Perception  : Bad
 Bows/Throw  : Fair         Disarming   : Fair         Searching   : Poor
 Saving Throw: Fair         Magic Device: Fair         Infra-Vision: 0 feet

Character Background
 You are one of several children of a Guildsman.  You are
 the black sheep of the family.  You have blue eyes, wavy
 blond hair, and an average complexion.
 

  [Character's Equipment List]

  a) You are wielding   : a Longsword (1d10) (+0,+0).
  b) Worn on head       : a Hard Leather Cap [2,+0].
  c) Worn on body       : Soft Leather Armor [4,+0].
  d) Worn on hands      : a Set of Leather Gloves [1,+0].
  e) Worn on feet       : a Pair of Soft Leather Boots [2,+0].
  f) Worn about body    : a Cloak [1,+0].
  g) Light source is    : a Wooden Torch with 1528 turns of light.
  h) Secondary weapon   : a Pick (1d3) (+0,+0) (+1).

  [General Inventory List]

a) a Holy Book of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 9 Rations of Food.
c) a Flask of Oil.
d) a Purple Speckled Potion.
e) 2 Scrolls titled "".
f) a Set of Leather Gloves [1].
g) 8 Wooden Torches with 4000 turns of light.

So, a couple of newbie questions.

Just starting out 50 feet down, is it worth the time and inventory space to pick up everything and sell it back at town, or do you pretty much ignore everything until you get deeper?

I wasn't super happy with the stats I rolled. I spent about five minutes rerolling. How long do you guys re-roll? Will you hold out until you get a couple of 17's, 18's etc? Or do starting stats not really matter that much?

Is there any use for empty bottles? Rags? Broken weapons? Sticks? Or is that just random trash thrown into the game for flavor?

See ya next post!

~dreamician

[corremn]

Glad you're having fun with this character.
Why no bow?

Because I just dont like using them.  I generally use orb of draining and portals against drainers.  This character had a heavy crossbow a few times.  

Anyway our tips are good. Protection against evil is one of the most useful spells, but I am diving too deep to make it really useful. Master Vamps and even some Emperor types fall pretty quick to orb of draining.  I sometimes have to portal away at least once with Emperors, but given a straight corridor they stand no chance.

I have given up killing Dragons at the moment, their blind, confusion spells really have made some close calls. Especially if I fail a portal at the wrong moment or run out of potions.  I have gotten down to one hp once while fighting them and portalling to an AMHD. Just not worth it at the moment...

I am starting to find a number of Invulnerability potions, so I am also avoiding "branded" creatures.  

Well I died to a monster trap. It was ugly. Three guardian nagas and some invisibles.

Hah. I don't know how long this thread will last, but I'm going to keep posting logs and asking questions until it dies.

I hope it lasts a while, I am having a lot of fun.

So, a couple of newbie questions.

Just starting out 50 feet down, is it worth the time and inventory space to pick up everything and sell it back at town, or do you pretty much ignore everything until you get deeper?

I wasn't super happy with the stats I rolled. I spent about five minutes rerolling. How long do you guys re-roll? Will you hold out until you get a couple of 17's, 18's etc? Or do starting stats not really matter that much?

~dreamician

I pick up everything  I can and sell it. Except the useless stuff. That vould be thrown at enemies, but dont botther. You might as well throw oil instead. So ignore useless stuff.  I sell all potions and scrolls found in early levels to id them.  This will give you enough money to buy some scrolls and healling potions.

On re-rolling spending some time is beneficial, but really you should get 18s on the important stats. I.e wisdom for priests/palidans, str for warriors, int for magic users etc.  If you make it to level 25 and have some time it does not really matter, but you need to get there first.

[corremn]

Progress update:
I have got to dungeon level 50 (accidentally), but no sign of the Balrog yet, thankfully as I am in no condition to engage.  I am really just hunting for speed items, ego weapons, crown of the magi, resistance armour, invulnerability and the occasional stat gain potion.  Dragons are the only threat to me at the moment, and I only attack red and white ones, fleeing from the rest.  Greater undead are really annoying, and I ran into my first Evil Iggy today, I choose to portal from him.

Anyway as long as I detect the Balrog before he sees me I should ok for now.

Code: [Select]


 STR :   18/43
 INT :   10
 WIS :   18/70
 DEX :   17
 CON :   18
 CHR :   16

You are using -
a) Wielding      : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+9,+11) {2 20.0 lb
b) On head       : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5).             7.5 lb
c) Around neck   : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+15).                     0.3 lb
d) On body       : Full Plate Armor (-3) [25,+2].                       38.0 lb
e) On arm        : a Large Metal Shield [5,+2].                         12.0 lb
f) On hands      : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+1].                            2.5 lb
g) On right hand : a Ring of Resist Cold.                                0.2 lb
h) On left hand  : a Ring of Resist Fire.                                0.2 lb
i) On feet       : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Slow Descent [3,+2].  4.0 lb
j) About body    : a Cloak [1,+0].                                       1.0 lb
k) Light source  : a Brass Lantern with 12204 turns of light.            5.0 lb
l) Spare weapon  : a Broadsword (SD) (2d5) (+3,+5) {3}.                 15.0 lb



[kaleto]

As a paladin, when I'm exploring a new level, every time the screen shifts I be sure to cast Detect Evil, Detect Traps, and Find Doors/Stairs.  That way I never accidentally fall through a trap to the next level.  That can be annoying if you're at 2450 feet and don't want to encounter the Balrog on the level below!

It's nice being able to see the dragons with infravision, eh?  I always worry about the one I can't see and the screen says "It breathes gas" and my guy dies.

I reroll a char until he has a decent primary stat, at least 16.  I also make sure none of his other stas are below 10, though.  See, I know I'll load up on increase stat potions, and I hate playing a char with a low str, dex or con.  Those are critical for staying alive.  I'd rather start off as a mage or priest with all mediocre stats than one with a superhigh primary stat and the rest low.  Sure, that primary stat is important early on, but later you'll wish the other ones were high.  Be aware that char race will affect your starting stats.

Hey, dreamician--how do you manage having 2 scrolls titled ""?

In the beginning, it's important to get all the money you can so you can afford better armor and weapons, so I sell EVERYTHING of value.  Food is cheap and money is scarce on the high levels.  I also roll the drunks on the town level.  But I tend to be cautious and don't go too deep early on.  I spend a lot of time building my char up so he can survive attacks from the undead.

corremn--If I'm low on Cure Critical Wounds potions and engage a monster that can blind or confuse me, I fight them in a corridor.  Save up those Heal potions!

[corremn]

Well, I am balrog hunting now. I have not found a SE or HA so I am under powered.  
I dont really think I will stand a chance with out speed or a better weapon. I really should of maxed out a weapon that I get multiple attacks with, oh well.  Time to get smashed.

I have encountered the balrog a few times, and luckily have not been killed. Once however I met a Blue ancient dragon that confused me, destroyed my staff of curing in one of my turns. I realised I had no way of curing the confusion (no potions). Suddenly the Balrog appeared. I was screwed. I could not cast portal because of confusion. The dragon might of killed me anyway without the balrog appearing, so I had to drink a potion of invulnerability, that I have been saving up for the final encounter.  I quaffed it, waited for confusion to go away, and blindness thanks to the balrog, read a scroll of recall and cast portal with 2 mana left. It hurt, but I managed to get away. Thanks to that encounter I now know much more about the Balrogs attacks.

I have been stocking up on critical healing potions ever since, staffs are next to useless due to its draining ability.  I wont be able to depend of spells due to its mana absorb. So its down to melee and a few wand blasts before it drains them to.  I will stash some wands around so I can pick them up and use them latter.

Wish me luck.  I will give a full account of this game with a death/victory post.

Code: [Select]

Name        : Roger                   Age          :     18   STR :  18/43
 Race        : Human                   Height       :     62   INT :     10
 Sex         : Male                    Weight       :    175   WIS :  18/76
 Class       : Paladin                 Social Class :     81   DEX :  18/61
 Title       : Guardian                                        CON :     18
                                                               CHR :     16

 + To Hit    :     11       Level      :      36    Max Hit Points :    387
 + To Damage :     14       Experience :  792804    Cur Hit Points :    270
 + To AC     :     23       Max Exp    :  792804    Max Mana       :     91
   Total AC  :     64       Exp to Adv : 1012500    Cur Mana       :     91
                            Gold       :  115548

(Miscellaneous Abilities)

 Fighting    : Superb       Stealth     : Poor         Perception  : Good
 Bows/Throw  : Superb       Disarming   : Excellent    Searching   : Fair
 Saving Throw: Superb       Magic Device: Superb       Infra-Vision: 50 feet

Character Background
 You are one of several children of a Titled Noble.  You are
 a credit to the family.  You have brown eyes, straight
 black hair, and an average complexion.
 

  [Character's Equipment List]

a) Wielding      : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+9,+11)
b) On head       : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5).
c) Around neck   : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+15).
d) On body       : Full Plate Armor (RA) (-3) [25,+5].
e) On arm        : a Large Metal Shield [5,+1].
f) On hands      : a Set of Gauntlets [2,-1].
g) On right hand : a Ring of Speed (+1).
h) On left hand  : a Ring of Lordly Protection (FIRE) [+5].
i) On feet       : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Slow Descent [3,+3].
j) About body    : a Cloak [1,+1].
k) Light source  : a Brass Lantern with 6816 turns of light.
l) Spare weapon  : a Broadsword (SD) (2d5) (+7,+9)


  [General Inventory List]

a) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 6 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 4 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcism and Dispelling].
e) a Mushroom of Unhealth.
f) a Mushroom of First-Aid.
g) 7 Potions of Invulnerability.
h) 3 Potions of Restore Mana.
i) 15 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
j) 6 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
k) 3 Scrolls of Genocide.
l) a Wand of Teleport Away.
m) a Wand of Cold Balls.
n) a Wand of Acid Balls.
o) a Wand of Wall Building.
p) a Wand of Fire Bolts.
q) a Wand of Polymorph.
r) a Molybdenum Wand {tried}.
s) a Thrusting Sword (Bilbo) (1d6).


Edit: Ha, checked about 5 levels and cant find the balrog but I did find a ring of speed Think I will call it a day.

[corremn]

WooHoo!!
That balrog was a piece of cake

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              #
             #####
               #
         ,,,  $$$  ,,,
     ,,=$   "$$$$$"   $=,,
   ,$$        $$$        $$,
   *>         <*>         <*
   $$         $$$         $$
   "$$        $$$        $$"
    "$$       $$$       $$"
     *#########*#########*
     *#########*#########*


       Veni, Vidi, Vici!
  I came, I saw, I conquered!
   All Hail the Mighty King!


As soon as i decided to take on the balrog, I found two rings of speed and my only staff of speed.  That combined with 9 potions of invulnerability,  4 powerful wands, 4 potions of restore mana d orb of draining was all I needed.  Still had one potion of invulnerability left, but as you can see I did not notice when one ran out near the end and I had about 4 turns of possibly been turned in to toast.

I had both rings of speed equipped and no fire resist so as soon as I saw him I quaffed a potion of invulnerability, used my staff of speed and emptied all my wands into him, quaffing potions as they ran out. As soon as my wands gave out I started with orb of draining, after 4 rounds of quaffing mana potions and casting orb, the balrog finally died.  My speed ran out near the end, but since I had no wands or staffs for him to drain it did not matter if I stood near him. Thankfully I he cast a few spells instead of attacking me near the end, as I let my skill return to normal.  And with one final cast of orb of draining the balrog died.  Damn thing didn't give me any cool treasure though.  Everything went quite smoothly, I am not sure that it will always be the case (if he drained my mana more when I switched to spells then I dont know what would of happened, he did drain me once when I only had 5mp left, the fool.)

Here is a brief run down of how the game went.
First the initial levels I just dived down as quickly as I could, this really helps to get experience fast, as long as you stay alive. I resisted my natural urge to kill everything as I just killed things that would give my benefits.   I descended down to the greater undead levels and found that portal and orb of draining are a mans best friend. However once I reached experience level 31 or so I gave up trying to level at all. Only potions of experience helped.  I found about 5 of these. Once you find these, who cares about monster experience.  

I was feeling quite cocky soon enough, knowing that the only thing that could kill me was a breath from a dragon or balrog. But with detect evil at every stage, they would not get me. I really just cast sense surroundings, detect evil, and detect traps/hidden doors, and just headed for the rooms that would be most profitable. I gave up exploring by normal means and just portalled around the level until I found treasure rooms or treasure monsters.  This is how I found my rings of speed and staff of speed.  Kind of just like level browsing, instead of exploring.

Rules I followed:
  1/ Dive down quickly to level quickly.
  2/ Don't bother about clearing levels, better items can be found deeper.
  3/ Only kill monsters that give lots of experience or items.
  4/ Avoid all stealing type monsters, draining type monsters and item destruction type monsters (unless they are covered by rule 3)
  5/ Never get into a situation that can kill you. (I gave up killing Dragons very early because of this).
     (of course you will find your self in many such situations, but always have an escape plan)

Code: [Select]



               _______________________
              /                       \         ___
             /                         \ ___   /   \      ___
            /            RIP            \   \  :   :     /   \
           /                             \  : _;,,,;_    :   :
          /             Roger             \,;_          _;,,,;_
         |               the               |   ___
         |           Magnificent           |  /   \
         |                                 |  :   :
         |             *King*              | _;,,,;_   ____
         |           Level : 76            |          /    \
         |           5958249 Exp           |          :    :
         |            384529 Au            |          :    :
         |        Died on Level : 0        |         _;,,,,;_
         |            killed by            |
         |          Ripe Old Age.          |
         |           Thu Apr 08            |
        *|   *     *     *    *   *     *  | *
________)/\\_)_/___(\/___(//_\)/_\//__\\(/_|_)_______

The Balrog casts a spell.
The Black Sphere envelops several creatures!
The Black Sphere envelops several creatures!
The Balrog magically summons an undead!
Your skin returns to normal.
This is a genocide scroll.
You have 2 Scrolls of Genocide.
Your feel your head clear.
You have no more Potions of Restore Mana.
Your Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) hits the Orc Zombie.
Your Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) hits the Orc Zombie.
You have slain the Orc Zombie.
The Balrog casts a spell.
You resist the effects of the spell.
The Black Sphere envelops a creature!
The Black Sphere envelops a creature!
You have 3 Potions of Invulnerability.
Your skin turns into steel!
*** CONGRATULATIONS *** You have won the game.
You cannot save this game, but you may retire when ready.
The Black Sphere envelops a creature!
There is a scream of agony!

Name        : Roger                   Age          :     18   STR :  18/43
 Race        : Human                   Height       :     62   INT :     10
 Sex         : Male                    Weight       :    175   WIS :  18/76
 Class       : Paladin                 Social Class :     81   DEX :  18/61
 Title       : **KING**                                        CON :     18
                                                               CHR :     16

 + To Hit    :     11       Level      :      76    Max Hit Points :    387
 + To Damage :     14       Experience : 5958249    Cur Hit Points :    387
 + To AC     :     20       Max Exp    : 5958249    Max Mana       :     91
   Total AC  :     61       Exp to Adv : *******    Cur Mana       :     91
                            Gold       :  384529

(Miscellaneous Abilities)

 Fighting    : Superb       Stealth     : Poor         Perception  : Good
 Bows/Throw  : Superb       Disarming   : Superb       Searching   : Fair
 Saving Throw: Superb       Magic Device: Superb       Infra-Vision: 50 feet

Character Background
 You are one of several children of a Titled Noble.  You are
 a credit to the family.  You have brown eyes, straight
 black hair, and an average complexion.
 

  [Character's Equipment List]

  a) You are wielding   : a Two-Handed Sword (Claymore) (SU) (3d6) (+9,+11) {2}.
  b) Worn on head       : an Iron Helm of Infra-Vision [5,+3] (+5).
  c) Worn around neck   : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+15).
  d) Worn on body       : Full Plate Armor (RA) (-3) [25,+5].
  e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+1].
  f) Worn on hands      : a Set of Gauntlets [2,+1].
  g) Right ring finger  : a Ring of Speed (+1).
  h) Left  ring finger  : a Ring of Speed (+1).
  i) Worn on feet       : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots of Slow Descent [3,+3].
  j) Worn about body    : a Cloak [1,+1].
  k) Light source is    : a Brass Lantern with 14463 turns of light.
  l) Secondary weapon   : a Broadsword (SD) (2d5) (+7,+9) {3}.


  [General Inventory List]

a) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Beginners Handbook].
b) 6 Holy Books of Prayers [Words of Wisdom].
c) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Chants and Blessings].
d) 5 Holy Books of Prayers [Exorcism and Dispelling].
e) a Mushroom of Unhealth.
f) a Mushroom of First-Aid.
g) 1 Potions of Invulnerability.
h) a Potion of Super Heroism.
i) 16 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
j) 2 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall.
k) 2 Scrolls of Genocide.
l) a Scroll of Mass Genocide.
m) 7 Scrolls of Identify.
n) a Wand of Teleport Away (4 charges).
o) a Wand of Cold Balls (0 charges).
p) a Wand of Acid Balls (0 charges).
q) a Wand of Fire Bolts (9 charges).
r) a Wand of Drain Life (0 charges).
s) a Wand of Acid Balls (0 charges).
t) a Staff of Speed (0 charges).
u) a Staff of Curing (5 charges).
v) a Ring of Lordly Protection (FIRE) [+5].



[dreamician]

Kaleto.. Hah, not sure how that happened. Must have been a copy/paste error on my part.

Corem - awesome job. I'm still working my way slowly down. Too cautious to dive fast. Heh.

I'll post an update soon.

[corremn]

Corem - awesome job. I'm still working my way slowly down. Too cautious to dive fast. Heh.

Yeah well I guess I forget that I have 5 years of game play knowledge stored in my memory somewhere.  It was really was interesting how I instantly knew how to approach every monster even though I have not played for 10+ years. 

I completely changed my play style from my previous games, I guess once you have time to reflect on it (10 years)  you can easily come up with an easy win strategy.  Of course I was extremely lucky with the speed items late in the game.

Initially I found it hard to go against my ingrained need to clear every level and kill every monster, but once I had a few close calls with 'D's I realised my errors.  Now I need to play a game that rewards killing everything.

Good luck all, I am retiring again from Moria.

[kaleto]

Have I mentioned how much I hate black dragon bats?  It's a real problem trying to keep your armor intact when you don't have any speed items.

[dreamician]

Coremmn,

Before you take off for good, what other roguelikes are you playing these days?

[corremn]

Lately I have only been playing Crawl stone soup, and I probably will go back to crawl soon enough since the new version is out.  I find it a lot harder than moria, but has a lot more diversity and has one of the best interfaces going around.  This is a game I will be playing for years I think.

[dreamician]

Corremn (sorry I misspelled your name last post)

Heh, your name reminds me of Prince Corum (Michael Moorcock).

Anyway, cool beans. I have Crawl downloaded, and when I get around to playing it, I'll start a thread. See you then.

[corremn]

Once you try crawl it is hard to go back.

Moorcock hmm, never heard of him. Any good?

"I need Moorcock here!  Can anyone find me Moorcock."