Author Topic: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus  (Read 23119 times)

Lord_Mork

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2016, 01:10:19 PM »
Played some today. Because I'm so accustomed to using the keyboard, I found navigating with the mouse to be very cumbersome, but I can see how it would be helpful or more attractive to a newcomer.

Played R+ the other day and actually came to enjoy the mouse. Instead of resting one hand on the numpad like usual, I shifted three inches right and held the mouse, so it felt natural as well. My fingers are fortunately long enough that I can reach almost all of the keyboard functions with just my remaining left hand

So the mouse sped things up a great deal without detracting from gameplay very much. I think it's an awesome addition.

elwin

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2016, 03:53:31 PM »
The latest Web version looks neat.  But I think you have an off-by-one error somewhere in the mouse click processing.  There was an Emu on my left, and when I clicked on it, I rested.  I had to click two cells to the left to hit the Emu.  When I click on my @ sign, I move right.

I notice you have wisely password-protected the shell escape feature.

I'm glad you're starting to call it Rogue Plus now.  "Advanced Super-Turbo" is long and complicated.
Roguelike Gallery: play Rogue online.  SSH or in browser.

Squeeealer

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2016, 06:36:33 PM »
LazyCat - it may be the wand of drain life that needs help.  I had the experience again today of trying to zap an enemy, but instead of letting me choose which direction to zap, it did so automatically as I clicked on the Zap button associated with that wand. Pretty sure my HP dropped from 38 to 19, so that's why I'm thinking drain life.

Is there a repeat function?  Like if I'm shooting a Leprechaun in a dark room, I cannot right-click on the L because I can no longer see him. I'm having to select arrows, choose shoot, then find the approximate space that will shoot the arrow in the direction of the L. Then repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

In general, I'm having trouble moving as precisely as I do with the keyboard. It can be hard to click on a specific "."  Also, I noticed when I want to move diagonally I can only do so one space at a time. If I click my destination it takes me the long way around. Not saying it should be changed, but it is a shortcoming. Precision is sometimes the difference between life and death, even when moving one space.

You sure you want all this critical feedback?  ;D

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2016, 08:30:38 PM »
The latest Web version looks neat.  But I think you have an off-by-one error somewhere in the mouse click processing.  There was an Emu on my left, and when I clicked on it, I rested.  I had to click two cells to the left to hit the Emu.  When I click on my @ sign, I move right.

You are right, it's as if mouse sees characters shifted few pixels down and to the left, for some reason. Thanks for that.

Looking at your bitbucket link I saw you mentioned webtty, and when googled about it I stumbled upon tty.js, which is what I ended up using.


Quote
I notice you have wisely password-protected the shell escape feature.

I don't think the security is actually an issue, but the real hole seems to be 'scp'. How do you allow ssh access and yet deny scp file transfer?

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2016, 08:37:55 PM »
So the mouse sped things up a great deal without detracting from gameplay very much. I think it's an awesome addition.

Thank you for your input. Some people, to my great surprise, still prefer keyboard. It's good to know I am not the only one who finds mouse input is actually improvement.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2016, 09:18:26 PM »
You sure you want all this critical feedback?  ;D

Of course, don't hold back.


Quote
LazyCat - it may be the wand of drain life that needs help.  I had the experience again today of trying to zap an enemy, but instead of letting me choose which direction to zap, it did so automatically as I clicked on the Zap button associated with that wand. Pretty sure my HP dropped from 38 to 19, so that's why I'm thinking drain life.

Yes, wand of drain doesn't need direction, it effects the whole area (room), so it activates as soon as you click zap. And also, unlike other wands it shows this animation:

\|/
-@-
/|\


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Is there a repeat function?  Like if I'm shooting a Leprechaun in a dark room, I cannot right-click on the L because I can no longer see him.

Hah! Of course you can not see him... it's dark. But you can still click on him if you estimate where he moves. It's a shot in the dark, you see? This mechanics just emerged by itself without my intention, and I think it's quite fitting.


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I'm having to select arrows, choose shoot, then find the approximate space that will shoot the arrow in the direction of the L. Then repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

You only need to click exactly on a monster when you are using right-mouse click shortcut, which shoots arrows automatically if bow is equipped, or throws shurikens/daggers/darts if bow is not equipped.

If you do it manually, by selecting arrows from the inventory column and clicking SHOOT button, then you do not need to click on a monster exactly, but anywhere in its direction. Yes, shooting arrows manually can be tiresome, so the idea is to keep using right-click shortcut auto-shoot and estimate where the monster moved in the dark, which strangely is quite realistic.


Quote
In general, I'm having trouble moving as precisely as I do with the keyboard. It can be hard to click on a specific "."  Also, I noticed when I want to move diagonally I can only do so one space at a time. If I click my destination it takes me the long way around. Not saying it should be changed, but it is a shortcoming. Precision is sometimes the difference between life and death, even when moving one space.

Hmm, that surprises me. I have zero problems and find moving with mouse works perfectly. Perhaps I should record a video, or you could record a video if you like, so we can figure out what is it we are doing differently.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2016, 09:36:04 PM »
Squeeealer, I see you set some records at http://103.9.162.124:8888

That server will be down in a week or so. Use this this link instead: http://52.42.113.72:9999

It's a new Amazon server I found, pretty good and free for a whole year, so that a new home and where the game will stay.

elwin

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2016, 01:05:01 AM »
Quote
I notice you have wisely password-protected the shell escape feature.

I don't think the security is actually an issue, but the real hole seems to be 'scp'. How do you allow ssh access and yet deny scp file transfer?
scp depends on support from the shell.  I use dgamelaunch as the login shell, and it doesn't support copying.  You probably want to use the ForceCommand setting in sshd_config to make sure the shell only runs that one command.
Roguelike Gallery: play Rogue online.  SSH or in browser.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2016, 02:16:01 AM »
scp depends on support from the shell.  I use dgamelaunch as the login shell, and it doesn't support copying.  You probably want to use the ForceCommand setting in sshd_config to make sure the shell only runs that one command.

Ok thanks.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2016, 02:40:54 AM »
In general, I'm having trouble moving as precisely as I do with the keyboard. It can be hard to click on a specific "."  Also, I noticed when I want to move diagonally I can only do so one space at a time. If I click my destination it takes me the long way around. Not saying it should be changed, but it is a shortcoming. Precision is sometimes the difference between life and death, even when moving one space.

Here is video:
https://youtu.be/n06_Ynd2_vM

Notice I rarely click on a specific tile, mostly just when searching/shooting, but other times it's somewhere further away in general direction I want to move/attack. Also, see how quickly you can zig-zag search dark rooms. -- Tip: use right-click on '@' to search 10x, it will automatically stop searching if a monster shows up or hidden passage is discovered.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 03:17:44 AM by LazyCat »

Lord_Mork

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2016, 05:04:10 PM »
Have you fully removed classic keyboard functions from Rogue+?
I tried a bit of 'e', 'r', etc. and got "invalid command".

I get the design philosophy behind all-mouse, but I'm just curious if the official switch has happened or if this is an error?

Legend

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2016, 06:50:49 PM »
I would hope that keyboard control is kept as an option. Personally, I find the mouse interface kinda cumbersome, plus it does not seem possible to do everything with just the mouse.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2016, 10:03:58 PM »
Have you fully removed classic keyboard functions from Rogue+?
I tried a bit of 'e', 'r', etc. and got "invalid command".

I get the design philosophy behind all-mouse, but I'm just curious if the official switch has happened or if this is an error?

Yes, most keyboard commands are removed. They were not working properly in combination with the new mouse input functionality flow, and I don't see a need for them any more than a motorbike needs bicycle pedals.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2016, 10:26:50 PM »
Personally, I find the mouse interface kinda cumbersome, plus it does not seem possible to do everything with just the mouse.

Can you be more specific please?

Macintosh and Atari ST Rogue don't have any keyboard commands, and they were made by the original authors. As soon as they moved out of graphically and input constrained environment they decided to replace ASCII characters with graphics and keyboard input with mouse controls. Surely they thought to be making a superior version, and I agree, so I find it baffling why would anyone want to use a keyboard still.

LazyCat

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Re: Advanced Super Turbo Rogue Plus
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2016, 11:38:28 AM »
The latest Web version looks neat.  But I think you have an off-by-one error somewhere in the mouse click processing.  There was an Emu on my left, and when I clicked on it, I rested.  I had to click two cells to the left to hit the Emu.  When I click on my @ sign, I move right.

Hold on, you are not talking about pixels, but whole size of the characters? What OS, what browser was that?

I tested this on Puppy and Ubuntu Linux with Firefox, and in Windows with Chrome, Opera, and Firefox. It works pretty much the same across, and there was a few pixel offset which is now fixed, but you seem to be talking about something far more severe. Please check if you still get the same problem.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 01:00:41 PM by LazyCat »