Rogue - let's beat it

[jmills]

After years of not playing Rogue, I found a version here that is identical to the one I played in the late 80s and early 90s.  Since then I've managed to get the amulet twice, but haven't managed to win.  I have a few questions:

1.  When you start going back up the stairs, are the levels randomly generated again?
2.  Will you ever find any food or items on the way back up?
3.  Are the monsters still level-dependent?  I mean once I get to level 17 I don't have to worry about Griffins anymore?

Thanks.  I've read this thread all the way through, and congrats to those that have won. Some day before I die I hope to do so. 

The version at the above site says version 1.0.  Does it have that ISRUN bug you guys have talked about. It sure seems like it does.  Just to give you a little more info about that version:

1.  You can't die of hypothermia
2.  U is for Ur-vile
3.  Only one type of identity scroll
4.  No hallucination or levetation

[mouser]

1.  When you start going back up the stairs, are the levels randomly generated again?
2.  Will you ever find any food or items on the way back up?
3.  Are the monsters still level-dependent?  I mean once I get to level 17 I don't have to worry about Griffins anymore?

I would have to read the code again since I no longer remember, but:

Most likely you don't have the ISRUN bug (one single identify scroll suggests your version predates Rogue v4 for Unix, which is the one that introduced the bug).

I think monsters are still level dependent.

[jmills]

Thanks.  I hope it is possible to find stuff on the way back up, because it seems you would run out of food otherwise.  Closest I've come is going back to level 19, despite falling back through trapdoors 4 times.

[mouser]

Consensus is that if you don't get at least some ring of slow digestion in your run, you are going to fail hard

Thanks.  I hope it is possible to find stuff on the way back up, because it seems you would run out of food otherwise.  Closest I've come is going back to level 19, despite falling back through trapdoors 4 times.

[Troubler]

Consensus is that if you don't get at least some ring of slow digestion in your run, you are going to fail hard

If you can get 2, you can grind. If you can grind, you can win. I wonder if you could even win with a mace, so long as you have 2 rings of slow digestion...

[mouser]

Consensus is that if you don't get at least some ring of slow digestion in your run, you are going to fail hard

If you can get 2, you can grind. If you can grind, you can win. I wonder if you could even win with a mace, so long as you have 2 rings of slow digestion...

Do you mean to hang on a floor, waiting for monsters to spawn and then kill them, level up to 888888, then rush down and up? Not that the idea lacks merit, but it sounds boring.

[Troubler]

Consensus is that if you don't get at least some ring of slow digestion in your run, you are going to fail hard

If you can get 2, you can grind. If you can grind, you can win. I wonder if you could even win with a mace, so long as you have 2 rings of slow digestion...

Do you mean to hang on a floor, waiting for monsters to spawn and then kill them, level up to 888888, then rush down and up? Not that the idea lacks merit, but it sounds boring.

If I got a deal like that boredom would be the last thing on my mind. It's a very rare occurrence.

[Squeeealer]

Rare, but I've had it a few times. There are a few things working in favor of balance to the idea that makes it not so ideal...

If you're doing it around Rattlesnakes or Aquators you are eventually going to run into a STR issue or ruin all your armor.  If you're that early in the run, then it will take an eternity to get enough experience. If you do it any later, then eventually some bad rolls will get you.  Now if you combine it with a scroll of scare monster and are using a version that allows you to move back onto the scroll with the m-command, then it might have more legs.  But even that can be tricky - you don't want to get sandwiched drawing enemies out of crooked hallways into the room you are in... hard to explain.

Hunger rarely ever hurts me.  The cave ensures that you'll find food every third floor at the very least (or technically fourth?). The only time I really get screwed is if it's been three floors and then I fall through a trapdoor.  Then the "clock" starts over again and it's a race to find food.  But I've had FAR more runs where I'm overloaded with food than I've ever been concerned about my hunger.

[Squeeealer]

What is going on when you have enemies on either side of you?  Because it seems like something really, really bad is happening above and beyond just each of them getting a hit on you.

If you want me to be more descriptive, I'm not sure I can.  But I've noticed taking severe damage in these situations and even when sandwiched by two enemies who shouldn't be a threat I often take a beating.

[mouser]

What is going on when you have enemies on either side of you?  Because it seems like something really, really bad is happening above and beyond just each of them getting a hit on you.

If you want me to be more descriptive, I'm not sure I can.  But I've noticed taking severe damage in these situations and even when sandwiched by two enemies who shouldn't be a threat I often take a beating.

That is weird.

I had a look into the code and found nothing that suggested such thing would happen. Which version is showing such behavior to you?

[Squeeealer]

What is going on when you have enemies on either side of you?  Because it seems like something really, really bad is happening above and beyond just each of them getting a hit on you.

If you want me to be more descriptive, I'm not sure I can.  But I've noticed taking severe damage in these situations and even when sandwiched by two enemies who shouldn't be a threat I often take a beating.

That is weird.

I had a look into the code and found nothing that suggested such thing would happen. Which version is showing such behavior to you?

Maybe it's my imagination, then.  And sometimes it's hard for me to track exactly what's going on because I always use the F key rather than directional to attack.  But, man, avoiding sandwiches is almost necessary to have a good run.

I play v5 on rlgallery.org

Sorry for the delay in responding. I swear I checked the thread a couple weeks ago, but I must not have.

[Garnavis]

Congrats to PC on your V3 win! Very fortunate that I happened to be watching when it happened. Looks like the stealth/searching ring combo is a real winner, although I'm surprised they didn't starve you out!

[Garnavis]

I've been turned back onto roguelikes (by way of Hades) and of course I have to try the OG again. Now that I've taken the time to really read this whole thread, I'm having a hard time settling on a version to play. It seems like V3 is less frustrating, but V5 is easier to navigate thanks to Ctrl+move. If the ISRUN bug were fixed in V5 I'd probably play that without thinking much about it. I'm also liking the rogue collection* for reasons of convenience, and because the Epyx versions seem to have their own merit as well. Although those lack the community aspect of the leaderboard and recordings on elwin's site. Apparently the rogue collection supports demo recordings though, so I guess I could post some here if I thought anyone would watch them. I wonder if the rogue collection could be rigged up as a server like elwin's...

* No external links allowed, apparently? It's the project "Rogue-Collection" by mikeyk730 on GitHub.

edit: Everyone else might have known this, but I literally just discovered that while V3 doesn't have Ctrl+move, "f" followed by a direction has similar functionality, in that it's like Shift+move but it will stop when it finds something. Of course, that does mean that it doesn't have auto-fight like V5 does, but this will still save a lot of time.

edit 2: Rogue is on Steam now, slated for release on Oct 20. It is Epyx Rogue 1.49.

[Squeeealer]

Thanks for the reminder on the Steam version.  Can you tell us your thoughts?

Great tip on V3.  I'll have to check that out.  Where are you playing it and watching other people?  RLG?

[Garnavis]

I was playing and watching on RLG, yeah, although I've really only been playing the Steam version lately. It's honestly just much more convenient for me than playing on RLG. Feature-wise it has more in common with V3, including the way running works (F, direction instead of Ctrl+direction). And also universal identify scrolls, which makes a big difference to me. I do miss the high score list though. It still has one, of course, but it's only local.