Author Topic: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat  (Read 18743 times)

Samildanach

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2014, 01:11:41 AM »
If you really want you could put something else than monsters in the game world to fill those pesky gaps between battles.
Indeed, which is exactly what people were saying up until you threw in "how about nothing". So by "nothing" you meant "something that's not combat"?

Krice

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2014, 09:06:19 AM »
Indeed, which is exactly what people were saying up until you threw in "how about nothing". So by "nothing" you meant "something that's not combat"?

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miki151

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2014, 04:08:26 PM »
Would a roguelike without any combat be possible? I mean a game that's still interesting and belongs to the genre.
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Vanguard

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2014, 06:09:26 PM »
You could make a roguelike about navigating deadly traps and avoiding your enemies without fighting them.  Or you could re-skin roguelike mechanics so it's about something other than combat despite playing the same.

NON

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2014, 06:28:59 PM »
Would a roguelike without any combat be possible? I mean a game that's still interesting and belongs to the genre.
Sure! It would be great with something like a procedurally generated, ascii/minimalistic graphics, turn based, single character control game about (for example) being a merchant/explorer. You could travel on the sea, exploring new lands, trading spices and exotic materials, etc - it wouldn't need combat at all. I'd definitely say that was a roguelike anyway if it had the right features and aesthetics.
Happy is the tomb where no wizard hath lain and happy the town at night whose wizards are all ashes.

Paul Jeffries

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2014, 07:44:48 PM »
Would a roguelike without any combat be possible? I mean a game that's still interesting and belongs to the genre.
Sure! It would be great with something like a procedurally generated, ascii/minimalistic graphics, turn based, single character control game about (for example) being a merchant/explorer. You could travel on the sea, exploring new lands, trading spices and exotic materials, etc - it wouldn't need combat at all. I'd definitely say that was a roguelike anyway if it had the right features and aesthetics.

I'm sure there must be some 7drls that are combat-less, although the only one I can think of off the top of my head is A Day @ The Zoo, which is probably not the best example since there isn't really anything else replacing the combat - you just wander around a procedurally-generated zoo.  Perhaps The Aurora Wager comes close if [INSERT TEDIOUS 'BUT IS IT A ROGUELIKE' DISCUSSION HERE].

miki151

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2014, 08:22:30 PM »
Yeah but how do you recreate those intense moments when you have to get yourself out of trouble? Maybe a Macguyver roguelike?  :D
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Paul Jeffries

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2014, 09:44:03 PM »
Yeah but how do you recreate those intense moments when you have to get yourself out of trouble? Maybe a Macguyver roguelike?  :D

That would either be the best crafting system ever or the worst one.  Inventory: Half pack of chewing gum. 1 cotton wool bud.  2 Paperclips.  You can craft: ANYTHING.

To answer the first part; perhaps a stealth game?

chooseusername

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2014, 11:08:53 PM »
If combat is infrequent, how do you fill in the gaps? With riddles? Exploration? Good topic, I'm interested in it myself.
You don't have to fill the gaps.

When I think of this, the two main games which come to mind are Thief and Deus Ex.  In these games which are of course not roguelike, combat is often an option.  You can play the game and choose to make combat as infrequent as you can, pick locks, walk in the shadows, activate a speed augmentation/implant thing, enter a giant weirdly man-sized air conditioning system etc.  And so it isn't so much that a gap is a gap, but rather that the gap is an exciting event where the attempt to avoid the potential combat is content in and of itself.  This can be factored into game design, procedural generation and the rest.

chooseusername

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2014, 11:14:34 PM »
Would a roguelike without any combat be possible? I mean a game that's still interesting and belongs to the genre.
If you took all the combat out of rogue what would you have left?

pat

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2014, 11:15:27 PM »
You don't have to fill the gaps.

When I think of this, the two main games which come to mind are Thief and Deus Ex.  In these games which are of course not roguelike, combat is often an option.  You can play the game and choose to make combat as infrequent as you can, pick locks, walk in the shadows, activate a speed augmentation/implant thing, enter a giant weirdly man-sized air conditioning system etc.  And so it isn't so much that a gap is a gap, but rather that the gap is an exciting event where the attempt to avoid the potential combat is content in and of itself.  This can be factored into game design, procedural generation and the rest.
that's kinda what I tried to do with Mujahid and to a lesser extent Rasatala. In fact Mujahid was pretty much supposed to be a Thief/Assassin's Creed roguelike where planning how and when you engaged in combat was the most important part of the game. The problem with it is that there is only a limited number of ways you can set up interactions between the player and enemies before it gets a bit overdone. You'd probably need to go down the road of adding z-levels and complex interactions with the environment (like climbing, attacking from above or below, or hiding under things, etc) to make it work in a longer game.

chooseusername

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2014, 11:39:01 PM »
When I think of this, the two main games which come to mind are Thief and Deus Ex.  In these games which are of course not roguelike, combat is often an option.  You can play the game and choose to make combat as infrequent as you can, pick locks, walk in the ...
that's kinda what I tried to do with Mujahid and to a lesser extent Rasatala. In fact Mujahid was pretty much supposed to be a Thief/Assassin's Creed roguelike where planning how and when you engaged in combat was the most important part of the game. The problem with it is that there is only a limited number of ways you can set up interactions between the player and enemies before it gets a bit overdone. You'd probably need to go down the road of adding z-levels and complex interactions with the environment (like climbing, attacking from above or below, or hiding under things, etc) to make it work in a longer game.
Agreed.  Thief and so forth have a huge advantage in the flexibility their game view gives.  I think it's entirely possible without z-levels or too complex interactions with the environment, but really until someone does it that's mere hand-waving.

Slash

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2014, 10:23:35 PM »
PG plot, might be a way to replace combat with exploration and gradually discovery of a PG story.

But it's hard.

wire_hall_medic

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2014, 09:18:45 PM »
If combat is infrequent, how do you fill in the gaps? With riddles? Exploration? Good topic, I'm interested in it myself.

I like what AliensRL did, or almost did.  Fighting was both dangerous and a waste of your resources.  There were mostly harmless drones that kind of broke it up a bit, and I think would have been better without.  But if combat is reasonably infrequent, dangerous, and consumes your resources, the spaces between can be filled with tension.

Just so long as there is enough danger that it could be lurking around every corner.

UltimaRatioRegum

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Re: Roguelikes with infrequent, dangerous and interesting combat
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2014, 04:10:49 PM »
This is actually exactly what I'm planning for Ultima Ratio Regum. Combat will be very rare, and very risky - even a 2v1 battle will potentially be a significant danger.